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Loose rivets
21st Dec 2008, 06:13
Well, if you've ever wanted to know about your own country, ask the CIA


https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/uk.html

Wod
21st Dec 2008, 07:15
That's both interesting and useful.

What's it doing on JB:E

Shannon volmet
21st Dec 2008, 07:36
A very interesting read. I wonder how our security services view the US.

barry lloyd
21st Dec 2008, 09:58
As ever, with these type of lists, there are inaccuracies.

No mention of Ascension Island (or do they think they own that now?).
No mention of Newcastle, Harwich, Grangemouth or Aberdeen (for example) in the ports section.

Just two things which stood out from a quick look.

capewrath
21st Dec 2008, 10:04
Shannon volmet wrote:-

"A very interesting read. I wonder how our security services view the US."

Probably could not find it on a map.

Buster Hyman
21st Dec 2008, 10:36
Australia.

Independence:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/graphics/dictionary.jpg (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/docs/notesanddefs.html#2088) https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/graphics/listing.jpg (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2088.html)
1 January 1901 (federation of UK colonies)

How can the CIA "get" this, yet so many Australians don't?

Tasmania is one of the world's major suppliers of licit opiate products
Cool!

PLovett
21st Dec 2008, 10:47
Buster, if you go down to Tassie late summer, early autumn you can see acre upon acre of opium poppies in bloom. Tasmania can produce enough opiate products to supply the whole of the world's legitimate needs.

Interesting site that. I wonder if they'd open up the rest of it for public information. :ok:

Just answered my own question. You can access other countries.

UniFoxOs
21st Dec 2008, 12:27
How long have the yanks been using the metric system?

UFO

capewrath
21st Dec 2008, 15:16
Plovett wrote:-

"Buster, if you go down to Tassie late summer, early autumn you can see acre upon acre of opium poppies in bloom. Tasmania can produce enough opiate products to supply the whole of the world's legitimate needs."

I think there is actually a shortage.
http://www.drug-policy.org/documents/worldwide_morphine_shortage

The smackheads seem to have plenty.

galaxy flyer
21st Dec 2008, 16:26
UniFoxOS

We don't except for those leftie organizations like the CIA. ;) Feet, inches, pounds and ounces, like God intended.

GF

chiglet
21st Dec 2008, 16:51
I like the "Celtic Sea"......:rolleyes:

Loose rivets
21st Dec 2008, 17:02
My main gripe as always, is how anyone - including the CIA - could believe that there are only >60 m people; a ratio of 5:6 since I was ten.

Folk now just have no idea what it was like then...especially in the SE of England. Just plain deserted by comparison.

Well, at least I'm consistent.


http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/248414-us-population-just-passed-300-million.html#post2915796

Matari
21st Dec 2008, 17:41
Loose Rivets:

My main gripe as always, is how anyone - including the CIA - could believe that there are only >60 m people; a ratio of 5:6 since I was ten.Not meant to be funny, and this might be a dumb question, but don't ya'll have a census in the UK? Wouldn't that answer the question?

Matari
21st Dec 2008, 17:50
chiglet:

I like the "Celtic Sea"......:rolleyes: Is there something controversial about the name that I'm not getting?

Map of Celtic Sea (sea), Europe - World Atlas - MSN Encarta (http://encarta.msn.com/map_701558808/celtic_sea.html)Map of Celtic Sea (sea), Europe - World Atlas - MSN Encarta (http://encarta.msn.com/map_701558808/celtic_sea.html)

frostbite
21st Dec 2008, 20:00
"don't ya'll have a census in the UK?"


Yes, but only the known and visible people take part, so it misses rather a lot.

Loose is right.

Stockpicker
21st Dec 2008, 21:43
Um, am I missing something or have they forgotten Clydeport under "ports"??

villavengore
7th Jan 2009, 17:53
On Orkney Scapa isn't the port it's a deep water anchorage - Stromness and Kirkwall are the main harbours there....

Foss
7th Jan 2009, 18:03
Chiglet
Celtic Sea is fair enough. It's the proper name for that bit.

Captain Stable
7th Jan 2009, 21:17
At its zenith, the British Empire stretched over one-fourth of the earth's surface.I don't think so. Maybe a quarter of the earth's land surface.A member of the EU, it chose to remain outside the Economic and Monetary Union for the time being.Clearly they don't understand the EU and misdescribe the European Monetary Union. We are IN the "Economic" Union - that was what it was called when we joined.The Scottish Parliament, the National Assembly for Wales, and the Northern Ireland Assembly were established in 1999Sorry - 1998 in all cases.

Wonder what they would come up with were they to use some form of intelligence-gathering - maybe they'd get some intelligent analysts... :D

mr fish
7th Jan 2009, 21:53
surely NATURAL HAZARDS should also include WASPS, the little
yellow bas:mad:ds!!!!

Sallyann1234
8th Jan 2009, 09:48
Quote:At its zenith, the British Empire stretched over one-fourth of the earth's surface.

I don't think so. Maybe a quarter of the earth's land surface.

Ah, but Britain 'ruled the waves' when we had a navy.

Captain Stable
8th Jan 2009, 11:15
True.

And now, under Maggie, Tony B.Liar and Gordon "The Invisible" Brown, the phrase is "Britannia waives the rules..."

Storminnorm
8th Jan 2009, 13:51
That was the Company logo for Britannia Airways I thought?(RIP).

In view of the fact that the CIA file contains so much detailed
information about EVERYWHERE in the World, WHY is your
average person from the US so ignorant of what goes on outside
America? Or even WHERE the rest of the World IS???? :ugh:

angels
8th Jan 2009, 13:59
Indded stormin. I'm reading Piers Moron's diaries at the moment and he mentions that in the build-up to GW2 he got a hack in New York to go out with a map of the world asking over 100 people to point out where Iraq was.

Well over 90 percent couldn't.

PS - The CIA website is very handy. Check my homepage.

Storminnorm
8th Jan 2009, 14:21
:sad:Check my home page? CIA? Sorry Angels, I'm scared to!!!! :sad:

Matari
8th Jan 2009, 15:33
Ah, good old Piers Morgan:

Ouch! The moment Piers Morgan broke three ribs falling off the Segway he said was 'idiot-proof' | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-479271/Ouch-The-moment-Piers-Morgan-broke-ribs-falling-Segway-said-idiot-proof.html)

Interesting that for all the comments on this thread about the data inaccuracy, no other country seems to go to the trouble of posting and maintaining such data on a public website.

ORAC
8th Jan 2009, 16:05
At its zenith, the British Empire stretched over one-fourth of the earth's surface. - I don't think so. Maybe a quarter of the earth's land surface. The RN was the dominant naval force world-wide at the time, "Britannia Rules the waves" and all that. So I would beg to differ....

Juud
8th Jan 2009, 16:35
Storminorm, there used to be programme on Dutch television called "The Holiday Man". It was shot on location, all popular holiday spots in Europe. One of the features was a segment were the holiday makers were asked to point out their holiday spot on a map. Many of them didn't even get the country right, never mind their exact location.
From my experience with the British public, I have no reason to believe that its members would do any better.
So when I see you going :ugh: , Matthew 7:3 springs to mind.

In the USA, like everywhere else in the world, there is no such thing as an average person. A person with some education will know his/her geography, a person with limited education will not.
If you are interested, Google "PISA scores" and take note of how the UK does compared to other countries. Here's (http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/jan/08/schools.uk1) another article which might surprise you.

USA general education standards are low for a rich country, yet many of the world's top universities and research establishments are to be found in America. They strive for excellence and as long as you are smart and willing to work, or are good at sports and able to get good grades at the same time, bursaries are available to all. They even sponsor foreigners, who can get a fantastic education for free as long as they are good enough. (several of my children's friends are pursuing a free education at top Unis under such programmes at the moment)
There's a lot of clever people there Stormin, and make no mistake.

Captain Stable
8th Jan 2009, 17:14
Orac, you need to be a bit quicker on the uptake. Scroll up a tad. Furthermore, I think even at it's zenith, the RN would have had just a little trouble ruling a quarter of the earth's oceans.

Juud, yes, there ARE a lot of clever people over there. So how come they got monkeyboy as president for the last 8 years? Yes, I know - the clever people were the ones behind the puppet pulling the strings. Sorry about the mixed metaphor.

FakePilot
8th Jan 2009, 18:18
It would be against the interests of the TV show (or other media) to depict people accurately locating Iraq on a map.

con-pilot
8th Jan 2009, 18:33
It would be against the interests of the TV show to depict people accurately locating Iraq on a map.

Exactly. :ok:

On the 'Jay Leno Tonight Show' Jay Leno has a segment called 'Jay Walking'. In this segment he tries to find the dumbest people possible to air on his show, I must say he has had great success finding some incredibly dumb people. However, for every dumb person he finds, he has to interview 20 to 30 other people that knows the answers to his question, but having them on the show would not be funny or entertaining.

As for the CIA site, it is not supposed to be an end all of all facts for any given country, rather a starting point so one can research more in-dept facts of any given country if desired. More or less it is a general overview.

eticket
8th Jan 2009, 19:08
One of the news items on the Volvo Ocean Racing game site is this from December 11th.

“The La Presa Yacht Club consists of a growing group of low income, multi-ethnic young sailors from the La Presa Middle School in Spring Valley, California. Even though many of these kids have never been on a boat, in fact many have not been to the beach though it is only twelve miles away, these kids are coming in before school, taking their lunch periods, and logging in after school to advance their boats. At three am. when Leg 2 started many students who were up, swapping messages, and ready to start. In addition to the friendly and colorful trash talk, they are also talking about low and high-pressure areas, about compass courses, and about wind angles and how they effect the boat speed. They learned how to read polar diagrams and are currently working out the concept of VMG. Though many students could not find South Africa on a map prior to the race, they are now working in latitude and longitude coordinates and referring to previously unknown geographical features with an easy familiarity.
These students are learning important lessons in math, geography, logic, and weather. But the most valuable lesson they are learning is that there is world beyond their neighborhood that offers an infinite number of rich experiences. Each time they think about sailing to India, they open the possibility that they could go there. Each time they log into their boat, they open the possibility they could sail a boat (which, thanks to Mission Bay Yacht Club, they will be able to do later this year). The greatest challenge teachers face in low income schools is getting their students to believe that there are possibilities in life beyond what they currently experience. This game has been a great help in that effort.”Doug Paine
'Spirit of my Father'
7th Grade Math Teacher
La Presa Middle School
A great story Doug! Your class is a great example on the positive impact of the game. We will send out a nice present for your class asap!Volvo Ocean Race Game (http://www.volvooceanracegame.org/news.php?id=238)

I have no idea where Spring Valley, California is. :(

ps If you are looking at a country in the CIA factbook and you click on the Printer Friendly button you often get access to more facts than appear on the non-printer friendly version for a country.

arcniz
8th Jan 2009, 19:35
As a point of interest, the CIA Factbook is hardly newly available.

At about the time that personal computers were beginning to regularly include CD drives as I/O devices (we're talking 1988-1990, appx), some enterprising skimmer produced a CD set containing the then-current version of the CIA Factbook, taking advantage of the fact that few, if any, documents produced by government entities in the USA bear copyright restrictions. The set was first offered for sale via computer stores, then bundled with certain new PC's. Eventually the novelty wore off and the internet wore on, bringing the cost of access to zero.

Clearly the Factbook has come a long way since then. It is an interesting phenomenon, but not inconsistent with CIA's general mission to gather useful and important information about the world and disseminate it to those with a need to know.

Beatriz Fontana
8th Jan 2009, 21:26
the phrase is "Britannia waives the rules..."

Nah, mate, that's the French that waive the rules....

Captain Stable
9th Jan 2009, 15:11
Maybe, Beatriz - the joke I heard about JAA is that the Germans invent the rules, the Brits double them, the French ignore them and the Italians don't even know the rules exist...

Lon More
9th Jan 2009, 15:20
The version I heard was

the Germans invent the rules, the Belguans double them, the French ignore them, the Italians don't even know the rules exist and the Brits do all the above then complain that the EU forced them into it

Storminnorm
9th Jan 2009, 15:57
Thanks for all that info Juud. Very interesting reading.

I don't suppose you ever saw "Transatlantic University
Challenge" that was on the telly many years ago.
The winner of the British programme took on the winner
of the American version. It was only broadcast once as I
recall, due to the total onesided nature of the outcome.
I'm afraid the Americans were destroyed.
Whilst I don't doubt that they are a "superior" nation in
many respects, as far as a knowledge of matters NOT
directly related to whatever particular area that THEY
are involved in, they DO lack any insight.
Generally they ARE excellent at what they do, but that
is the extent of thier interest.
They do tend to be very"Isolationist" I'm afraid.
Except on occasions when it serves them not to be. Sorry,
That's my view. :ok:

PS I still LIKE them though!!

Matt 7.7 also applies, but not to a lot of people in America.

And also, I have 20/20 vision thanks.

And WHY did they always think I was Australian? I'm Bl**dy British!!!!:mad:

Loki
9th Jan 2009, 17:16
Storminnorm

I got the "Are you Australian?" thing too....I answered that I was from the United Kingdom. I could tell from the blank look that the woman asking the question had no idea what I was talking about.

AMF
9th Jan 2009, 20:06
Storminnorm quote...In view of the fact that the CIA file contains so much detailed
information about EVERYWHERE in the World, WHY is your
average person from the US so ignorant of what goes on outside
America? Or even WHERE the rest of the World IS????

Storminnorm quote;.. I'm Bl**dy British!!!!

...and typically so.

One thing I've noticed spending all these years abroad, your average Brit is obsessed with comparing themselves to the U.S./Americans to the point of considering themselves "experts" on the same, is lacking in higher education, wouldn't know their own history if it bit them in the arse, and thinks "world experience" is traveling to either pub-crawl/vomit on a Greek Island somewhere or duty-free shopping in Dubai.

Worldwide, of course, they're known as "the people who don't tip".

On the other hand, Americans don't have to travel through or to other countries to have a holiday in warm weather, go skiiing, or find good real estate value.

birrddog
9th Jan 2009, 20:16
The version I heard was

the Germans invent the rules, the Belguans double them, the French ignore them, the Italians don't even know the rules exist and the Brits do all the above then complain that the EU forced them into it

Or the Luxembourg equivalent:
"The bureaucracy of the French executed with German efficiency...."

Captain Stable
9th Jan 2009, 20:30
On the other hand, Americans don't have to travel through or to other countries to have a holiday in warm weather, go skiiing, or find good real estate value.No, so they don't - and as a result they learn nothing of anyone other than those brought up thinking the same way as they do, learn nothing of other cultures, or other values, other preconceptions or beliefs, and learn nothing about the world.

The end result is that they believe everyone in the world is the same as them, and act surprised when the rest of the world object to the USA's arrogant assumptions.

con-pilot
9th Jan 2009, 20:35
No, so they don't - and as a result they learn nothing of anyone other than those brought up thinking the same way as they do, learn nothing of other cultures, or other values, other preconceptions or beliefs, and learn nothing about the world.

The end result is that they believe everyone in the world is the same as them, and act surprised when the rest of the world object to the USA's arrogant assumptions.

Ah, I see we have another expert on the United States educated by Hollywood and televsion. :p

Captain Stable
9th Jan 2009, 20:45
Sure, that plus visits to California, Colorado, Nevada, New York, New Jersey, Florida, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Illinois, AND Puerto Rico.

Come spring I shall be back in NY visiting Manhattan again and also paying a visit to West Point.

Don't make assumptions, con. I know a little more about your countrymen than can be discovered from Hollywood and TV. And if there's one thing I've learned, it's that Hollywood and TV tell lies. Yes, your countrymen lie to you and to the world. And many of your fellow countrymen lap up the lies and actually start to believe them. :rolleyes:

con-pilot
9th Jan 2009, 20:51
Sure, that plus visits to California, Colorado, Nevada, New York, New Jersey, Florida, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Illinois, AND Puerto Rico.


What! You visted Oklahoma and did not come see me in my Pub? Shame. :=


And if there's one thing I've learned, it's that Hollywood and TV tell lies.

What was your first clue? :p

Captain Stable
9th Jan 2009, 20:58
My apologies for failing to visit you - but I was travelling with a convinced Christian (and not by choice, either) who frowned every time at the mere mention of alcohol (*) and I didn't want upset your domestic harmony by having his disapproval intrude.

As to the second point, I think it was something to do with the way all the Indians (as we called them in those days) were the baddies and all the cowboys (ditto) were goodies. Or if no Indians, the baddies wore black hats and the goodies wore white ones. That plus the fact that, despite offering a subtsantial target, John Wayne never got shot. Shame, really. He coulda done with pluggin'

(*) This is actually true, this bit!

Storminnorm
9th Jan 2009, 20:58
AMF you got it spot on! :ok:

con-pilot
9th Jan 2009, 21:37
I think it was something to do with the way all the Indians (as we called them in those days) were the baddies and all the cowboys (ditto) were goodies.

Yeah, I know what you mean. As a kid I would play 'cowboys and Indians' with my friends, course the injuns were always the bad guys, kind of like the French. Then later in life I discovered that my great-grandmother was an American Indian. This lead me to view things a bit different.

But then again, not much fun playing 'cowboys and the French'. Just isn't the same thing. :uhoh:

That plus the fact that, despite offering a substantial target, John Wayne never got shot. Shame, really. He coulda done with pluggin'


Naw, he got shot at least once. But was by a Japanese in some war movie.

but I was traveling with a convinced Christian (and not by choice, either) who frowned every time at the mere mention of alcohol

I use to fly with a guy like that. A born again Christian, funny thing was that when we would leave the US he would drink like a fish, I guess he figured that the Bible didn't count outside of the country. :)

GetTheFlick
9th Jan 2009, 22:06
That plus the fact that, despite offering a subtsantial target, John Wayne never got shot. Shame, really. He coulda done with pluggin'

I don't really mind when you talk bad about ignorant Americans (seein' as I 'r one), Cap'n Stable...but don't let your mouth run away from you and start bad-mouthin' the Duke.

"A big mouth don't make a big man."

John Wayne as Wil Andersen
"The Cowboys" 1972

An' beggin' your pardon, the Duke got shot plenty of times. He even got kill'd in The Cowboys.

Don Brown

birrddog
9th Jan 2009, 22:13
Then later in life I discovered that my great-grandmother was an American Indian.

Con, that would make you entitled to open a Casino! License to print money that is! ;)

Matari
9th Jan 2009, 22:59
The end result is that they believe everyone in the world is the same as them, and act surprised when the rest of the world object to the USA's arrogant assumptions.Interesting that for all the Europeans' supposed learned cultural sensibilities, they managed to take great delight in slaughtering one another for centuries, up until the last 60 years or so (well, even a couple of years or months ago if you consider Bosnia and the Basques).

Funny how it takes culturally insensitive Americans to keep the peace between you lot.

arcniz
10th Jan 2009, 03:39
As to the second point, I think it was something to do with the way all the Indians (as we called them in those days) were the baddies and all the cowboys (ditto) were goodies. Or if no Indians, the baddies wore black hats and the goodies wore white ones. That plus the fact that, despite offering a subtsantial target, John Wayne never got shot. Shame, really. He coulda done with pluggin'

As a 7 to 10-year old I played serious after-school cowboy-indian with real North-American 'indians' and a mix of other young louts. In the spirit of fairness, we'd change roles from time to time, so that each one could be a Cowboy and an Indian in the course of a typical late-afternoon go-round. One noteworthy difference was that the cowboy guns were fake - they fired carmine red-dyed paper 'caps' that made a little noise and a puff of smoke... but the arrows were real.... with machined conical steel tips and 30-inch(ish) hardwood shafts and enough throw weight that they would lodge quite solidly in a tree. Sure is a wonder that not one of us did catch a finely-balanced shaft in the forehead, poking up at a wrong time from the dug-dirt foxholes we used for cover. As I recall, one could hit a target at around 80 yds with a simple bow and one of them 3-feathered arrows, so the cap pistols and rifles were pretty well outmatched. Occasionally we tried to balance the odds with real .22 rifles, but it really didn't seem as satisfying in the doing. Made too much noise, and you got a lot of dirt and sand in you eyes when the others were shooting at you. Realising there might be some downsides, at about age 10, one took a vow to oneself to not do that for play anymore.

(thanks to Allah, et alia, the Darwin thing is somewhat statistical)

As for the Duke -- Hollywood & Malibu & Newport Bch. rumor had it that a few husbands had nearly got him. Probably just jealous slanders, heh, there's always someone around like that.

arcniz
10th Jan 2009, 04:01
Matari says:
Interesting that for all the Europeans' supposed learned cultural sensibilities, they managed to take great delight in slaughtering one another for centuries, up until the last 60 years or so (well, even a couple of years or months ago if you consider Bosnia and the Basques).


Naaw, we've been doing it regularly for a good 15,000 years, if a day.

That's not just custom or tradition, it's a habit.

AMF
10th Jan 2009, 04:10
Captain Stable Quote:

No, so they don't - and as a result they learn nothing of anyone other than those brought up thinking the same way as they do, learn nothing of other cultures, or other values, other preconceptions or beliefs, and learn nothing about the world.

The end result is that they believe everyone in the world is the same as them, and act surprised when the rest of the world object to the USA's arrogant assumptions.

The most laughable part of your assumptions regarding Americans CS is you ignore the fact that the US is a country of immigrants and refugees, at a rate of about a million per year, who were residents of "the World" you assert they/us know nothing about. And if they aren't "us", they are our neighbours, extended families, or colleagues. Most assimilate so some degree but their cultures don't die here.

The second most laughable part of your statement is assigning provincialism of thought to Americans who don't, say, go on holiday in Sharm el Sheik like a Brit in search of the cheapest hotel and goes to Hawaii or the Carib instead, because in large part the supposed "worldly" experience most Brits claim has to do with their little holidays that are spent sitting around a resort pool or mingling strictly with other expat Brits looking for G & Ts. Of course it's perfectly acceptable thay they pursue those things, but I'll spit up my bourbon laughing at the associated claim.

Your problem with Americans' "ignorance" probably has more to do with them not waking up every day and wondering what the latest news is from the UK, or Europe. But why should an American who's roots are in Asia, or South America, or Africa, or the Middle East give a rat's butt what's going on in your little shire? They go to work, raise families, and try for a better life really not caring about you or what you think, nor is it a moral imperative that they do so.

It's it's own form of ignorance to try and claim moral superiority over those who you merely assume to be ignorant when you know absolutely nothing about them. This seems to be a very common trait amongst anyone who loves whining about Americans while putting-on a pretentious, phony, "upper-crust" accent.

CityofFlight
10th Jan 2009, 04:29
Careful folks....self-righteousness leads to deletion and a locked thread. The usual bashing banter is surfacing. :ugh:

Loose rivets
10th Jan 2009, 05:01
Then later in life I discovered that my great-grandmother was an American Indian.


Then there was the Wells Fargo postman.


For days he rode, a sip of water and a mouthful of dust. On and on, over one mountain range, only to see fifty miles of road and another mountain range. But it was his job...his job to stay on time...his job to keep those panniers strapped down. Wells Fargo was his life.

Sunrise, and the ashes damped with his coffee dregs, his horse taken as much water as she could hold. There was something wrong, a sound, a smell...something.

Slowly, don't rush, don't look round. A little faster now, a sound, and now a gallop...run, run, run. Thhhhhhhhhhhhhwack...an arrow through the shoulder blade. On, on, on, hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisssssssssss...one by his ear, then another in his back. His horse screamed as the shaft of another pierced her hind. On, on, on...

Through the arm, one in the leg, the pain...on, on, on. Soon twenty arrows in his back, and the town a barrier to his assailants. Slowly again now, down through the town...sliding off his beloved horse, her blood mingled with his. The people gathered as he fell to the floor of the post office...the pannier in his blooded hand. The postmaster and the mayor look down upon his arrow riddled form, the people hush as he raises his eyes to the crowd; silent has his dry lips form the words......





"There......there......there bain't no mail today."

arcniz
10th Jan 2009, 05:14
Provocative stuff, Rivets. Careful where you step. Makin' light of the U.S. Mail might have repurcushions. (They know where you live.)

AMF
10th Jan 2009, 06:17
Captain Stable...
As to the second point, I think it was something to do with the way all the Indians (as we called them in those days) were the baddies and all the cowboys (ditto) were goodies. Or if no Indians, the baddies wore black hats and the goodies wore white ones. That plus the fact that, despite offering a subtsantial target, John Wayne never got shot. Shame, really. He coulda done with pluggin'

As CP pointed out, the Duke died from lead poisoning in The Cowboys, but also in The Shootist, and if you don't know something THAT easy, how can you be trusted with knowing about real-live Americans?

In non-TV-or-movies real life, however, it should be remembered that American's first call to arms was "The redcoats are coming!" and "Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes", a situation spurred by British arrogance and telling themselves they know what's best for "provincial" Americans. Not that many generations have passed since then, and it shows. It's probably genetic memory pasted into those who's ancestors remained glued to their wee little island.

Storminnorm
10th Jan 2009, 13:45
Sorry once more AMF, but the statement that the AMERICAN call
that The British are coming would have been made by someone
who was, at that time, technically STILL British. Sorry again.

Lon More
10th Jan 2009, 14:09
Matari says:
Interesting that for all the Europeans' supposed learned cultural sensibilities, they managed to take great delight in slaughtering one another for centuries, up until the last 60 years or so (well, even a couple of years or months ago if you consider Bosnia and the Basques).

This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting)balances it up a bit:ugh:

hellsbrink
10th Jan 2009, 14:19
Or even this one, Lon

Five shot at Chicago school basketball game - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/4212772/Five-shot-at-Chicago-school-basketball-game.html)

corsair
10th Jan 2009, 14:57
Well this thread took a turn for the worse. Gone the 'Americans are stupid and ignorant and arrogant' route. Which is undoubtedly true of some. Oddly this jibes with most of my experiences of Americans. But yes I have stories like that. My favourite was told to me by an American. He joined the army. When asked where he was from he said 'Vermont'. He was asked 'What state is that in?':) (Vermont is a state BTW, just in case you didn't know).:ok:

However let he who is without sin cast the first stone. One of the advantages of living in a small country is that you tend to be outward looking. You have to be. In big countries it's not such an issue. But there are plenty of people in Ireland who are clueless about what goes on outside our little Emerald isle or even on the other side of the country. You Brits needn't be so smug. There are plenty of examples of geographical ignorance, insular behaviour and arrogance and that's only from British stag parties in Dublin on saturday nights. Not to mention the French, Germans, Italians etc etc.

I've met foreigners in Ireland who apparently hadn't grasped the notion that they were not in the UK. I met a Pole who complained about the British weather. Now I like to blame the British for many things but the weather is all ours.:hmm:;)

I don't think may countries would stand up to the ignorance test. Americans are quite insular but, ironically that's because of geography.

All countries have their fair share of lumpheads and dolts.

Storminnorm
10th Jan 2009, 15:34
I wish you'd stop sending us your horrible weather! :rolleyes:

corsair
10th Jan 2009, 17:45
Hah, you only get our leftovers. ;)

Sir Lee B´stard
10th Jan 2009, 21:09
arcniz said

Makin' light of the U.S. Mail might have repercusions. (They know where you live.)¨



Which puts them well ahead of the Royal Mail and Correos

AMF
10th Jan 2009, 21:34
Storminnorm qutoe... Sorry once more AMF, but the statement that the AMERICAN call that The British are coming would have been made by someone who was, at that time, technically STILL British. Sorry again.

Technically speaking, to the British way of thinking anyway and for whatever that's worth, you're correct. Of course, the British also considered those Americans to be guilty of Treason and deserving to be hung. We, on the other hand, consider them Patriots and Heroes.

Thankfully, as evidenced by the events of April 1775, those taking up arms against British oppression and tyranny realized that being an American trumped whatever kind of "subject" the Crown considered them to be even before the official declaration of Independence, which was still over a year away. The "American" mindset for those residing in America clearly already existed, and what was issued on July 2nd-4th 1776 merely set down on paper what the moral and philosophical reality for those revolutionaries already was. In other words, they had stopped caring...as evidenced by their willingness to aim and fire at any soldier wearing red or their mercenary, Hessian allies....what the British technically (and mistakedly) thought.

And this mindset still carries-on for both sides today; Brits...obsessed and for some odd, self-aggrandizing reason deeming themselves "experts on America".. continue to tell each other and anyone else who will listen that Americans are "provincial", ignorant, and a nusiance when they step outside their own borders (unless, of course, called upon to do so in order to help fight Britain's Euro-enemies..then we can't get there quick enough), while Americans....still rightfully not caring what Brits think even if you ignore the fact that the VAST majority of Americans now don't even have tangental ancestral ties to the place...don't return the obsession now that the issue was settled about 230 years ago.

Read about the British response to America's armed confrontation to the Barbary Pirates in the early 1800's and it's easy to see nothing has really changed. People here could have written the same whining opinions about "ignorant" America not "getting it" and upsetting the status quo as it was established by "worldly", self-interested Euros.

Fortunately for the Blame-Dumb-America(ns) crowd, whether it's done as a self-critique or in humor our society is one that airs it's own dirty laundry for the world to see , so they have plenty of fodder to conveniently cherry-pick from in support of their own preconceived notions which triggers the blame-shifting, scapegoating, and masking of their own. It's no suprise that the same people who whine about American's never "looking or caring what's outside their own borders" are also usually the ones whining about Americans who are out and about in the world as if they're intruding upon their own, decrepit, Imperial playground as if there's a Divine Right of Meddling akin to the one of Kings throwbacks believe in. As the historical record proves, Mother England or any other former Euro colonial power didn't do such a bang-up job when they had the guns to enforce their own culture and way of life for a few hundred years outside their own borders while they were gaining all this so-called "worldliness" in pursuit of profit and possessions, and we're still dealing with the ramifications of the British (and their rivals') mindset today in the form of bloodletting and strife in countries, and even regions, strewn around the world. I'm sure those former "subjects" are mighty thankful for the filing cabinets that were left behind when you bugged-out though.

I'm sure they don't teach this in British schools. I had a memorable conversation with an "educated" Brit colleague not too long ago who asked who we fought our Revolutionary War against..and he wasn't kidding. That's funnier than anything I've ever seen on Leno.

Not that I care.

con-pilot
10th Jan 2009, 21:43
Yeah, what he said. :ok:

Fruity Tones
10th Jan 2009, 22:01
Hear, hear, AMF!
Fruity is in total agreement.

Captain Stable
11th Jan 2009, 13:20
Interesting that for all the Europeans' supposed learned cultural sensibilities, they managed to take great delight in slaughtering one another for centuries, up until the last 60 years or soIn Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.Britain has had the same foreign policy objective for at least five hundred years – to create a disunited Europe. In that cause we fought with the Dutch against the Spanish, with the Germans against the French, with the French and Italians against the Germans, with the French against the Italians and Germans.Not a lot we don't know about each other - specifically about winding 'em up!