Recycled fuel

[winchman]

What does everyone one do with aircraft/ bowser daily fuel checked fuel? It seems that we are disposing of a lot of clean fuel, i know it increases the chances of contamination but does anyone put it straight back into the bowser for reuse?

[206Fan]

It seems that we are disposing of a lot of clean fuel

Why would you dispose of clean fuel?

On the Robinsons its put straight back into the tank if its clean after the sample check on pre-flight!

[whyisitsohard]

I put aircraft fuel back into the tank IF it is uncontaminated, but I usually leave the last few ml and toss them, just to be sure.

Bowser fuel has to be kept for a few weeks does it not? Then I dare say it goes back into the bowser...or ought to. Unless you have a petrol car. Otherwise bung it in the tank.

D

[ShyTorque]

Unless you have a petrol car. Otherwise bung it in the tank.

Then nip inside and order a new catalytic convertor for the car.......... :ugh:

(If you mean AVGAS in a petrol engined car).

[MK10]

Jet A-1 doesn't have the lubricating properties of deisel, but we shove in 50/50 to run the tractor that we use as a tug...........the rest goes through the central heating system.

Mk10

[ShyTorque]

A splash of ATF or cheap lube oil in Jet A-1 will help lube the fuel pump.

[winchman]

It used to be simply, one of the guys used to dispose of it in his motor until the engine seized:* (Jet A1) and now our storage barrels are running out, i'm up for sticking it straight back in the bowser but dont want to fall foul of 'Fuel managment/ Storage' rules....

[ShyTorque]

Got an oil burning heating system nearby? Jet A-1's better stuff than central heating oil...

Or can you sell it for "recycling" in a power station?

[Brilliant Stuff]

All our sample fuel goes into what we call a reclaim tank which is part of our installation, basically a biggish tank where the fuel can settle again except for the bottom two inches everything get then returned to the big tank once a week. The bottom two inches, if they are clean go back to the main tank a swell but if they are contaminated they go into the slops barrel from where they "vanish". One barrel a year ain't to bad.

[unstable load]

Running a diesel engine on JetA1 is dependant on the tye of injector pump. If it's one of the "old generation" like Ford/Perkins etc then you should have no problems. The more modern engines use a common rail system that runs at higher pressures and these pumps are more sensetive to the lubrication requirements of the fuel.

We had an old Ford tractor at work that ran on JetA for almost 20 years with no hassles and one of the engineers had an Isuzu pick-up truck that lasted about 6 months before the pump failed. I ran a Mercedes 240D for 9 months on JetA before I sold it and it was fine.

I would think twice before using JetA in a modern vehicle due to the new pump technology, but if you have a garden tractor or an older vehicle, go for it.

I would use SAE30 or 40 to mix into the fuel for lubrication if anything, but remember that if the vehicle stands for a while it will settle out so a bit of jerky driving in the beginning to mix it in may be in order.:ok:

[helofixer]

Sump fuel from our aircraft and base fuel installation goes into our combustion heaters for hangar heating, fuel tank for our emergency power generator for the base, and the company truck.

[Driptray]

We drink ours!! It gets taken away in 200L drums, and returns in cardboard cartons, filled with beer bottles:ok: Generally 2 slabs per drum, premium beers only!

[Choppie]

We drain a whole litre of fuel before each sortie for a fuel sample in case of something happening. Before the next flight I chuck the litre of back into the 200L drum we are refueling from. You just proved after a 3 hour sortie that there was nothing wrong with the fuel you just used. So why throw it away?

[whyisitsohard]

Quote:
Unless you have a petrol car. Otherwise bung it in the tank.
Then nip inside and order a new catalytic convertor for the car.......... :ugh:

(If you mean AVGAS in a petrol engined car).

I'd "quote" but not sure how to, so...

I didnt know AVGAS would screw a cat to be honest, so thanks for that. maybe the guys I talk to drive old cars, or motorbikes?:confused:
is it the lead that does for the cats?

David

[whyisitsohard]

We drain a whole litre of fuel before each sortie for a fuel sample in case of something happening. Before the next flight I chuck the litre of back into the 200L drum we are refueling from. You just proved after a 3 hour sortie that there was nothing wrong with the fuel you just used. So why throw it away?

A litre seems excessive. I'm not saying its wrong, just that it seems unlikely to be more useful than,say, half a litre. Have you ever found anything in the second half litre that wasn't in the first?

David

[quichemech]

On more modern bowsers there is a collector tank for excess from the samples, this is allowed to stand for a while before being checked and then pumped back into the main tank, to use Jet A1 in a motor vehicle in the UK is an offense:rolleyes: and Customs and excise do do random checks from time to time.
:{

[skadi]

I didnt know AVGAS would screw a cat to be honest, so thanks for that. maybe the guys I talk to drive old cars, or motorbikes?http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/confused.gif
is it the lead that does for the cats?

David


You are right, for cat only unleaded fuel!

skadi

[ShyTorque]

whyisitsohard,

Yes, the lead salts produced by combustion (the same ones that protect the valve seats) coat the element of the cat convertor and "protect" it from the exhaust gases. So it can't be a catalyst any more :uhoh:

But it's a good fuel for those vehicles that pre-date catalytic convertors. Legal off the public highway only, of course.

[Pandalet]

Similarly, if planning to use 100LL in a bike, make sure it's not one of these new-fangled injected thingies - the lambda sensors don't particularly like being coated in lead either. Works like a charm in carbed models, though.

[ericferret]

Not only is it illegal to burn it in vehicles you cannot burn it as heating oil in the UK as the revenue see this as avoiding the 5% tax on heating fuel.

You could however legally use it if you declare it and pay the tax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This would obviously be considered to be a mentally unsound thing to do and the men in white coats would come and take you away!!!!!!!!

[unstable load]

But it's a good fuel for those vehicles that pre-date catalytic convertors. Legal off the public highway only, of course


One had a Mini that was breathed upon and became almost a par with a Cooper (engine wise, brakes howerever....another story) and it did just fine on 110 out of the planks in the hangar. At 11.5:1 compression, Avgas was like mother's milk and there was a standing order for any and all samples. Then I got to know the fellow who ran the pumps to fill the piston planes, Ahhh, bliss!
Now the 1978 Moto Guzzi enjoys the benefits of 100LL when possible.

[scooter boy]

I recycle all clean-looking sampled bowser fuel back into the bowser.

I keep my bowser inside my hangar under cover. It keeps the hose dry and reduces the chances of condensation being a problem. The fuel fraction I worry about is the 1L or so trapped inside the hose after each refuel. Replacing the cap on the pump nozzle reduces the chances of crap and moisture getting up the hose but this is presumably the bit of fuel trapped in the hose that is most at risk of being contaminated.

Having read about some of the highly dodgy fuel put into an R44 by those 2 blokes that flew to Oz a couple of years ago, I'm pretty confident that you need a LOT of contamination to cause combustion problems.

BTW My father ran his Austin car on avgas 100LL in the 1960s. It worked really well until it destroyed the engine.

SB

[ShyTorque]

Not surprising! It contains so much tetra-ethyl lead that it should be diluted about 10 to 1 with low lead / unleaded. In an engine not designed for it it can whisker spark plugs (aero engines use surface discharge plugs which are less prone) and cause build ups on the back of exhaust valves and on piston tops. :)

[TRC]

CAP748
Chapter 2
Para 1.1
"Sampling checks should be made throughout the fuel handling, storage and distribution process to ensure that the fuel is free from water and solid particle contamination, is of the appropriate grade, and is in a state fit for use by aircraft."

Para 1.3
"Samples should be taken and retained for a minimum of seven days"

Para 1.6
"Fuel that is not to be retained and is found to be free of contamination can be returned to the tank."


BTW My father ran his Austin car on avgas 100LL in the 1960s. It worked really well until it destroyed the engine.


FYI. It would have been 80/87, 100/130 or 115/145 - all of them full-lead, full-fat. 100LL was introduced in the seventies.

TRC :8

[unstable load]

BTW My father ran his Austin car on avgas 100LL in the 1960s. It worked really well until it destroyed the engine.



If an engine is running 10:1 compression or higher then Avgas is the ideal food for it.

[ShyTorque]

If an engine is running 10:1 compression or higher then Avgas is the ideal food for it.

From an anti-knock point of view, I would agree to some extent, if you can accept the plug fouling problem and its propensity to attack some types of sealing materials.

Not all engines of 10:1 CR or above need that high an octane rating, especially if they have an alloy cylinder head on a small cylinder size. One of my engines is well above 10:1 and certainly likes a dose of a gallon or so in the tank, but I would never run it on 100% AVGAS because I've found there's really no need.

Anyway, it's illegal for road use.

[VfrpilotPB/2]

Used in a 50/50 mix it works a treat in Land Rover 5cyl Turbos, or add a good quart of Derv/Turbo engine oil if used in greater mixes, did 45k in my LR 5TD with no bad side effects whatsoever, like wise ASDA Cooking oil is also a good alternative but still needs a 50/50 split, smells a bit like Harry Ramsdens but its still cheaper than paying thru the nose to the Labour Party's favourite charity!

Vfr

[scooter boy]

BTW My father ran his Austin car on avgas 100LL in the 1960s. It worked really well until it destroyed the engine.



FYI. It would have been 80/87, 100/130 or 115/145 - all of them full-lead, full-fat. 100LL was introduced in the seventies.

TRC http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/nerd.gif

Then the engine must have died of lead poisoning

SB

[chester2005]

I know a few people who have run their diesel cars (from older Ford TDs to newer CDi Mercs and Land Rovers) on a mix of 50% Jet A1 and 50% Diesel for many many many 1000s of miles with no problems whatsoever.
Most of them maintained they had better power with that mix than straight diesel!!!

Chester:ok:

ps. I once knew an instructor who used to add a few gallons of avgas 100LL
to his turbo diesel car. I wouldn't recommend it but it worked for him!!!

Chester :ok:

[piggybank]

I was on a heli logging operation in Sarawak where the diesel engined truck that moved the big fuel pump around to the logging area rarely got diesel in it. It run 99% of its time on Jet A1. Plenty of power and smooth running.