Pilots fired for attempt at take off from taxiway

[armchairpilot94116]

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2008/12/15/2003431142

The Captain and the FO both fired for trying to take off from Taxiway.

[hongkongfooey]

Oh well, it beats the usual reason of being fired from HKA..............because you're white.

[float flyer]

Interesting...

I think the companies justification for firing the guy's involved, along with the other 16 that were released at the same or similar times was:

"tough trading environment and competitive times"

Let the lies continue....

[hongkongfooey]

That was what the liars said Float, but they are/were still hiring and had pilots undergoing training at the time. Blatant discrimination.:hmm:
I'm not sure why they are still hiring tho, just more redundancy payouts to make when they go down the gurgler in a few months.
Noteworthy that Hainan have now applied for Government handouts, no doubt partially due to the millions they have been flushing down the toilet with HKA.

[Blown Seal]

They were both fired before the report from CAD even came out.

[Arfur Dent]

Sorry to appear judgemental but if I took a commercial airliner off from Goddam taxiway I'd EXPECT to be fired. Nothing to do with the colour of my skin. Just the fact that I'm bloody incompetent!!!

[Minimums!]

does anyone know if the CAD report is out yet and if its available online?

Minimums!

[fourgolds]

Jagman 1 , there by the grace of God go you my friend.

[Blown Seal]

What has yet to be revealed in this incident is whether one of the HKA managers pressured (ironically under the fear of being fired) the First Officer to submit a fraudulent account (to align with the captains story) of the event to the CAD.

[trevfly]

thankfully this would not happen at CX as they respect loyalty and dont shoot from the hip. Their pilots are better trained.

[Sue Ridgepipe]

A couple of excellent quotes from a "management source" at Hong Kong Ailrines in the SCMP:
A management source at Hong Kong Airlines pointed out that the apron markings and lighting at Chek Lap Kok were so clear, a pilot would have to be "really, really stupid" to attempt to take off from a taxiway.

"The runway in Hong Kong is super-duper", he said. "It is a very colourful runway. You can see the lights very clearly, especially at 4 o'clock in the morning. So you have to be really, really stupid to try to take off from a taxiway with green lights".

But it's good to see they're on top of the situation now and doing their utmost to ensure it won't happen again:
"We have also given everybody a map of the airport and told them "go home and study it before you sleep - that's where the runway is, so remember it" he said.:D

[boocs]

trev yr a shocker!!

[C172Driver]

Sue Ridgepipe
those quotes are priceless! :ok:

[snakeslugger]

"thankfully this would not happen at CX as they respect loyalty and dont shoot from the hip. Their pilots are better trained."

Yeah, I have just been gainfully employed by NASA they said the deal clincher was my CX experience.:D

[hongkongfooey]

Jagman, don't be sorry, you are spot on !! There are certain mistakes that are unforgivable, taking off on a taxiway in CAVOK where the lighting is so obviously different is one of them.
I always like to ask the " there by the grace of god go I " brigade if they'd feel the same way if their family was on board and the " little mistake " killed them all.
It's not friigin' McDonalds, people are trusting you with their lives !!

[fourgolds]

Hong Kong Fooey . It must be nice being superhuman and therefore incapable of making mistakes. I am sure this crew deliberately intended to take off from the taxiway and endanger all those lives. I will be the first to say that being professionals we are held to account and yes that means loosing our jobs at times like this. However I think you subsribe to the brigade that thinks we never make mistakes and believe me I would not want my family in the back with an attitude like that upfront !!
Over the years there have been many incidents of crews taking off or landing on taxiways , some with catatrophic results. Many other incidents and accidents too where human error was to blame. If you are arrogant enough to think that you can go through an entire career without even a mistake ( that may well have been trapped by someone else in the system) , then my friend you are a novice with much to learn. There is no professional pilot out there who was involved in a serious incident who believes , " it will never happen to me " , but many are the arm chair warriors who remain opiniated.

[iceman50]

So you are not opinionated then FOURGOLDS?:D

[punkalouver]

The news article says "There have been two previous incidents involving planes attempting to take off from taxiways rather than runways at Hong Kong’s 11-year-old international airport."

Details anyone?

[fourgolds]

ice man , nope not when it comes to this. I sincerely feel sorry for you guys the day you make a mistake. If you live by these standards you will be judged by them.

[iceman50]

FOURGOLDS - you are hoisted by your own petard! Did you make this mistake which is why you want to pass on your message?

I did not give an opinion either way and it is something I strive very hard not to do even on clear days, you hopefully have strategies and procedures in place to prevent it. The last call I make before the levers go up is "normally" everybody happy!

Unfortunately rushing and cockpit dynamics (CRM) can cause mistakes to be made and not corrected. Overall it is better to be a couple of minutes late in this life than early in the next.

[iceman50]

TSIMBEIT - :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Chocks Off]

seems to me that what matters here is what they did and said after they had made their mistake? error is one thing, cover up another??

[iceman50]

TSIMBEIT - there there didums- we don't want you to get embaressed now do we especially as you are an EXPAT!!:yuk:

[armchairpilot94116]

China Airlines had a real close call with this A340 incident at Anchorage:

Aviation Safety Council-Occurrence Investigations (http://www.asc.gov.tw/asc_en/accident_list_2.asp?accident_no=126)

As did an EVA Air Md11F , also at Anchorage:

AirportBusiness.com » Article » FAA Investigating Cargo Jet That Took Off on Taxiway at Anchorage Int'l Airport (http://www.airportbusiness.com/online/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=4292&pageNum=1)

[mr Q]

As I recall one of the previous incidents was Phipippine Airlines.
Anyone recall the other??

[Arfur Dent]

Fourgolds - I'm not sure if you're being deliberately 'Devil's Advocate' or not. Sadly, I think you're serious. Not one of us in this job could possibly say that they've never made a mistake - certainly not me.
When someone in the crew picks up another's mistake it simply emphasises the 'crew concept'. After the apologies, the guy pointing out the error normally sais something pleasant like 'That's why there are 2/3 of us'. Beers are bought and the sin is added to a growing list of 'Musn't EVER do that again!'
That's why experience is so important and valued. The list is long. Beware the pilot with a SHORT list because he may have a BIG ego!

My whole point earlier was that some errors are simply not acceptable. We can all think of what they are.

In my opinion, TWO people in a serviceable aircraft who 'as a crew' take off on a taxiway in good weather at a familiar airport should GET ANOTHER JOB.

I'll say this - it's not 'There but for the grace' at all. It's DON't DO THAT!!
Thanks for the support Fooey and others. Keep those mistakes a'comin'!

[hongkongfooey]

I just pray 4 golds has'nt actually got 4 golds, if he has maybe he'd be kind enough to tell us what airline he flies for so we can avoid it.
I'm with you Jagman, made plenty of silly/stupid mistakes and will continue to do so, the day I stop will be the day I retire.
I suppose if a doctor came out to 4 golds after operating on his wife or close family member and said " sorry, slipped a bit with the knife, your wife is deceased " that would be OK with him :hmm:
We are trained and paid to not make the " BIG " mistakes, taking off on other than a runway is one of them.

[fourgolds]

Jagman and Hong Kong Fooey ,Merry Christmas to you both.
I hope daddy buys you nice presents.

[Arfur Dent]

Fourgolds

Churlish churlish! You don't get it at all do you. Do you really have 'fourgolds'? If you do, please re-read my last post ( and Fooey's). Nobody likes their friend to be disciplined but some things in life are beyond the pale and cannot be tolerated. That's all we're saying.
Please have a Merry Xmas and a safe 2009. Be kind to youself and others when you make your mistakes. Just don't make HUGE ones!!
That's all from me on this topic.
Compliments of the Season to all.:bored:

[hongkongfooey]

Thanks Goldy, same to you :ok:
I'd better get that PS3 or all the toys are going out of the pram :mad: