PDA

View Full Version : CASA misleads RAPAC NSW re Williamtown


Dick Smith
15th Dec 2008, 00:01
Is it any wonder how CASA managed to convince the members of the NSW RAPAC to support the Temporary Restricted Area for Williamtown? It was a very cunning and very dishonest process. Remember a Temporary Restricted Area is normally for an emergency or disaster area or for risky activities like air shows.

CASA had completed their Williamtown Review October 2008 (click here (http://www.dicksmithflyer.com.au/cat_index_53.php) to see the Review) by the date of the NSW RAPAC meeting. This study clearly showed that only 6 of the 11 “safety mitigators” were completed.

Rather than give the attendees of the RAPAC meeting a copy of this important report, CASA very cunningly withheld it and only gave an executive summary which specifically excluded the fact that only six of the eleven safety mitigators were completed “to quote” (see here (http://www.casa.gov.au/oar/rapac/minutes/nsw081113.pdf) page 12 of the 13 November, 2008 NSW RAPAC meeting)


"The OAR has recently reviewed the 2007 Aeronautical study of Williamtown. The focus of this review is to ensure the safety of Passenger Transport Operations at Williamtown outside Defence ATC hours. While the report has a scope of the next 12 months, it is particularly focussed on the upcoming Defence Period of Operational Standby (POS), which will occur between mid December to mid January. Attached is an executive summary of the report, which has been endorsed by CEO CASA. The full report will be available on the OAR (Office of Airspace Regulation) website in due course."

Note that it says report is now available.

It is interesting that the Williamtown issue was only bought on as a “late agenda item”. Also note that the minutes state “Ideally, ATC should be provided at Williamtown, however Defence and Airservices have been unable to provide the service”. Note there is no mention by CASA why Defence or Airservices have been unable to provide the service. The answer is simple, Defence were going on holidays and Airservices knew that if they stonewalled and did nothing, CASA would give in, re write the safety case and say that ATC was not required.

It is interesting that the attendees of the meeting were not told that only six of the 11 safety mitigators had been completed. It is also interesting that the report stated that an article in the AOPA magazine educated pilots in relation to flying through the airspace when it was uncontrolled. This was a blatant lie. The actual article in the magazine was about flying through the airspace when the airspace was controlled.

It is interesting that Peter Fiegehen from the ATSB made no comment that was listed in the minutes in relation to the ATSB being totally opposed to such a risky plan. Or is there something we don’t understand?

It is also interesting to note that the AOPA representative Phillip Reiss agreed with the proposal – why would he do that? Obviously the prime reason is he was never shown the October 2008 Review. I know the man concerned and I feel sure if he had been shown the report there would have been no way that he would have agreed to the Newcastle Airport introducing such extraordinary requirements as a mandatory transponder for all aircraft when the airlines did not have to – and were not - all fitted with TCAS.

Also, understand that there has not been a notice of proposed rule making or cost benefit study in relation to this proposal.

Remember that the proposal to put in a TRA was not just for an hour or two as happens with TIBA but it was for a four week period during the December/January period.

CASA of course had been informed 12 months before that Airservices were not going to operate the service – it makes you wonder what is going on in the office of Airspace Regulation.

It is also interesting to note that Warwick Walesby the representative for Qantaslink agreed with the proposal to operate without Air Traffic control. Extraordinary!

It should be noted that Walesby is one of the greatest proponents for more and more mandatory calls with big fines for pilots operating in a CTAF. Rather than Walesby supporting Class D airspace when mandatory radio is required for VFR under ICAO he continually goes down a non ICAO route where the airlines can maximise their profits by not supporting Class D – i.e. saving money. This has now happened at Williamtown with Walesby’s support and it is well known by professionals that you cannot negate the safety reduction of a lack of Air Traffic control by writing more and more complex mandatory requirements.

I would be interested to hear the comments from those who attended the RAPAC meeting on why they believe they were not shown the October 2008 report. It can only be so the representatives were asked to vote without having all the information. What other reason could there be?

Atlas Shrugged
15th Dec 2008, 00:58
Merry Christmas, Dick

http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/hug5.gif

Dick Smith
15th Dec 2008, 05:21
Thanks Atlas. Do you have any concern about what happened at the RAPAC meeting? Perhaps it is the way things are to go in the future ie less and less ATC and more blind calling airspace for Airline operations.

Howabout
15th Dec 2008, 05:31
Dick,

With all due respect regarding your reference to 'Airline Operations', who's idea was it to have a thing called the NAF under Airspace 2000, or one of its variants.

The NAF would have seen plenty of regional airlines (read all) operating in 'blind calling airspace.'

Once again, I'm stumped.

Dick Smith
15th Dec 2008, 05:40
The NAF - the National Advisory Frequency - was put in place in the class G demonstration area between Canberra and Ballina so we could give IFR aircraft access to a Radar Advisory Service for the first time.

After the demo was stopped by Mick Toller the airspace was given back to Flight Service and no RAS was available.

Most of the risk is close to the airport- I have never had a proposal that removes ATC from busy terminal areas that meet the FAA's Class D establishment formula.

Howabout
15th Dec 2008, 05:50
I'm sorry Dick, call me thick, but there was nothing preventing the provision of a RAS that was dependent on the NAF. In fact, being on the NAF for SP operations would have militated against getting a worthwhie RAS. In addition, while (and I agree with you on this one) there is good radar coverage on the coast, my understanding is that it's not so flash further inland - still within the footprint of the Class G trial. Controllers, who actually have some first-hand knowledge, may be able to elaborate better than me.

Dick Smith
15th Dec 2008, 05:58
All pilots were prohibited from getting a radar service in un-controlled airspace because by law they had to be on the Flight Service frequency. The FSO's did not have access to radar.

The NAF was put in because pilots would not accept the proven system from the UK and the USA where there is no dedicated class G frequency.

Phone me and I will explain with more detail. E would have solved the problem but even today it is resisted and we are having CFIT accidents like Benalla.

Howabout
15th Dec 2008, 07:28
Earht calling EX-FSO GRIFFO.

Dick Smith
15th Dec 2008, 07:48
Lets get back to the point- how were the RAPAC members conned by CASA into supporting "no ATC at Newcastle". Why did the AFAP representative accept the CASA decision?

I bet 90% of airline pilots believe we should have a minimum of a Class D Tower at the airport- why then did their representatives let them down?

peuce
15th Dec 2008, 20:24
Dick,

Maybe they just succumbed to a reality check.

Say I agree with you that we should have a Tower of some sort at Willy, Ballina, Proserpine, Broome, Avalon, Port, Karratha etc etc ... and I do in some of these cases ... and our combined influence convinced CASA/OAR/Minister/ASA to make it happen ... what would actually happen then ?

........

........


Exactly !

The current reality is that there is not sufficient staff or resources to do it... no matter how much stomping up and down we do. And, it's unlikely that we will be in a position to make it happen for a number of years.

So, what are your options?

1. Force OAR to build (empty) towers at Avalon, Broome etc?
2. Work on ways to safely work around our current situation ?

There's probably a third option, but I don't know what it is.

Plazbot
15th Dec 2008, 20:30
I bags Port Mac posting when it opens.

m-dot
15th Dec 2008, 21:35
Come on mate! - Busso would be much nicer.

Dick Smith
15th Dec 2008, 21:45
Peuce, I know what you mean – because there are not enough controllers we just take the extra risk! It is a bit like Qantas saying there is a shortage of pilots so they will fly 747s with one crew member up front. Of course you would get away with it for quite a while, but I would have a feeling that most safety regulators would say, “Don’t fly the plane until you get the correct number of crew.”

If the Office of Airspace Regulation said to the airport operator and the airlines that Williamtown was not to operate over Christmas without at least a minimum of a Class D tower, and if they had maintained this position after giving 12 months notice, I have no doubt that the tower would have been manned.

peuce
15th Dec 2008, 21:54
Well Dick,

Unless I've been reading the posts on this forum incorrectly, you are plane(pun intended) wrong.

From out of whose arse will they be plucked ?

Dick Smith
15th Dec 2008, 22:10
You put an advertisment in the media stating that x number of controllers will be required in 12 months time and you offer a pay package that will achieve a response.

Pretty simple really.

I have had retired controllers contact me who reckon with minimum training they could offer a service at Williamtown.

If a tempory tower can be put in for the Bathurst Races or the Grand Prix it should be possible to do something at Williamtown considering there was 12 months notice.

Tiberius
15th Dec 2008, 22:31
Dick Smith you state:

You put an advertisment in the media stating that x number of controllers will be required in 12 months time and you offer a pay package that will achieve a response.

Pretty simple really.

I think you have redifined the word simple. Perhaps someone here could send you a copy of Airservices proposed certified agreement for current Australian ATC's

That said, if you believe that CASA is asleep at the wheel on this and a number of other issues, well, then I agree with you.

Willoz269
15th Dec 2008, 22:32
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!


That is the most ridiculous thing you have come up with yet, Dick, honestly, you still haven't got the foggiest of what happens in ASA, you are far more interested in your "experts" in the FAA...

Money or remuneration packages are NOT the issue here...yes, you can earn far more going to the sandpit or certain parts of europe, but nobody wants to go there because everyone prefers to stay at home. The problem is, they are forced to seek employment overseas because ASA is currently led by a bunch of imbeciles with little idea as to what is required in aviation in this country and how to progress with what we have in hand.

ASA is just plainly not a nice place to work in at the moment, and until the current CEO leaves, it will continue to be so.

In the meantime, all your crowing about giving immediate radar assistance to a VFR aeroplane who wants to fly in a newly designated airspace or otherwise having not filled out a flight plan and not told anyone where the hell he is going just because the blue sky is so big, is just not going to happen....there are far more important things to be fixed first. Affordable safety, remember??

Dick Smith
15th Dec 2008, 23:00
Just to show there may be controllers available, here is but one of many emails I have received from controllers. I have de-identified the message for obvious reasons.

Dear Dick,

Caught you on Early Sunrise this AM.

I was a ******* Tower Controller for 10 years until I retired in 1999 and am now employed at *** as an Operations Controller.

Airservices had a job application on their website for retired ATC’s to rejoin and be retrained one supposed to alleviate the diabolical situation they have found themselves to be in. The applications closed back in June 2008 I was advised that there had been 140 applications!!!!!

I understand they have selected approximately 40 of the retirees to be retrained in 2009 as enroute controllers, I spent most of my career in TWRs and consider I would need a short refresher to be capable to at least be a journeyman in say LT TWR or some of the other Regional TWR’s or even AV TWR should it reopen. I have not even heard from Airservices since about July, they are simply not interested I presume and now we have daily closures of airspace and TWR’s talk about the ship sinking.

Regards

****


And Willo, I want the available radar to be used to protect airline PAX first-- we don't even do that at many locations.

Atlas Shrugged
16th Dec 2008, 04:28
I have had retired controllers contact me who reckon with minimum training they could offer a service at Williamtown.



Surely you can't be serious :ugh::ugh:

Dick Smith
16th Dec 2008, 05:59
How about a post from someone who attended the RAPAC meeting and agreed to support the CASA "no atc" proposal?

Where are you?

Atlas, it's not rocket science, if an ATC service could be provided from a temporary tower at Bathurst during the car races why not at Williamtown?

And the ATC mentioned in post 18 says a "short refresher" would be OK.

And what about the controllers working in the Camden Tower over Christmas? Couldn't they be paid double and move to Williamtown? Surely better than a CAGRO.

MSbP
16th Dec 2008, 07:36
The answer is MSbP.
Wake me up when it's all over!

zzzzzzzzzzzz:O

Willoz269
16th Dec 2008, 08:10
Give it up Dick, it is still all about knee jerk band aid solutions for you....sure, there are a lot of retired ATCs out there who could step in somewhere with MORE than a LITTLE refresher training...don't forget, a retired ATC is like a retired pilot, or a retired head of CAA for that matter, they know better than anybody else, in their days, things were different, and the whole blimming world doesn't know what they are doing.

I know an ATC at BN control who has retired 6 times and come back....not sure how old he is now, but I can assure you this is not the way to go. Reality check for you, ASA is bleeding controllers left right and centre, so rather than yank some poor overworked controllers from their towers and away from their families and put them in an unfamiliar tower at WLM, how about just putting up with the reality that there are not enough controllers and do what the rest of the country is doing until the crisis is solved?

Dick Smith
17th Dec 2008, 06:49
Willo, I am actually on your side re the shortage of ATC's

Getting back to the topic, is there anyone out there who attended the RAPAC meeting who can explain why they supported the operation of Williamtown over the Christmas period without ATC?

Or are the RAPAC reps hand picked so they will agree with any CASA proposal- no matter how unsafe?