747 low pass...

[camilo1]

Hello

Thought some of you might find this video interesting:

YouTube - 747 Acrobatic Aerosur Torisimo ORIGINAL VIDEO ¨HQ¨¨ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6s0pBqIriw)

It is Aerosur 747-300 named Torisimo.

[camilo1]

The aircraft carried the owner of the airline, Humberto Roca , he is the one responsible for the whole show, supposedly they practiced the manoeuvre a lot, but it also seemed to me the first time I saw the footage that that left wing came too close to the ground.

It was the aircraft debut.

By the way, how are they going to fill that aircraft once a week to Madrid?. And isn´t that aircraft just too thirsty and big for the Bolivian (Santa Cruz) market?. A 767 orA330 (http://javascript<b></b>:submit_bot('suggest', 'A330', 470, 4, 2, 0, 'A-51-51-48');) could do the job without a problem at all

[WE992]

Reminds me of that now classic photo of the British Airways VC10 at that pleasant little airfield near junction 8/9 of the M4.

[SNS3Guppy]

Not exactly an aerobatic maneuver. The pilot made a a fundamental mistake when initiating his turn. He had established a level minimum altitude. When he began the turn, he should have pitched up initially so the low wing never went below that minimum altitude. Instead, he simply banked, dropping the low wing significantly closer to the surface; indicative of very limited experience in low altitude maneuvering.

[AKAFresh]

That was impressive!

BUT this one sent shivers down my spine! Im suprised this A310 still has a left wing :ooh::uhoh:


YouTube - TAP Airbus A310 Low pass turn Portugal Airshow 2007, Evora (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYfhC9ft_hk&feature=related)

[AerocatS2A]

Not exactly an aerobatic maneuver. The pilot made a a fundamental mistake when initiating his turn. He had established a level minimum altitude. When he began the turn, he should have pitched up initially so the low wing never went below that minimum altitude.
I can't agree with this. It makes some assumptions that may be quite wrong. You say he established a minimum altitude, but did he? He leveled off at an altitude, who's to say his level altitude didn't have some "fat" built in to allow for his turn? This is a discussion I've heard before, some agree with you and say you should pitch first then roll, other very experienced low level fliers have countered that it looks a lot better if you roll then pitch and provided you're at a reasonable altitude to start with, it's perfectly safe (personally, when I used to do this sort of thing, I'd pitch then roll but I have no problem with pilots doing it the other way.)

I have commented negatively here before about the TAP low pass. My own comfort levels tell me that the TAP pass is not ok and this B747 one is, YMMV of course.

If you think rolling prior to pitching indicates inexperience at low level flying you must think the Red Bull Air Race guys are a bit wet behind the ears do you?

[TowerDog]

The aircraft carried the owner of the airline, Humberto Roca , he is the one responsible for the whole show, supposedly they practiced the manoeuvre a lot, but it also seemed to me the first time I saw the footage that that left wing came too close to the ground.


Huh...? Practice a low-pass?

Not rocket science or Chuck Yeager stuff:

You fly low to the ground with gear and flaps up, they ya ad power and climb back up to the heavens. What seems to be the problem? ...:sad:

[AircraftOperations]

The 747 has slats & flaps down on the clip.

[SNS3Guppy]

I can't agree with this. It makes some assumptions that may be quite wrong. You say he established a minimum altitude, but did he? He leveled off at an altitude, who's to say his level altitude didn't have some "fat" built in to allow for his turn? This is a discussion I've heard before, some agree with you and say you should pitch first then roll, other very experienced low level fliers have countered that it looks a lot better if you roll then pitch and provided you're at a reasonable altitude to start with, it's perfectly safe (personally, when I used to do this sort of thing, I'd pitch then roll but I have no problem with pilots doing it the other way.)


You might have missed the point, by a considerable margin.

My own expertise is primarily in low level operations, and by that I mean everythin from six inches on up...a lot of it at six inches above the ground, and beneath powerlines. While I don't claim any expertise, I also fly the B747...though not at low altitudes.

What it "looks" like isn't particularly relevant. When I stated the pilot established an altitude, he did just that; he did so by leveling off. Whether he did that at 200' or a thousand feet isn't particularly important, other than once it's established at a low altitude, one doesn't want to descent any farther.

If one banks, and drops a wing below that altitude, one is placing the wing closer to the ground. If one has a very good understanding of exactly where one's wingtips are...and one's altitude is adequate, this can be done safely. However, the pilot rolled, dropping his wing down close the the ground before pitching up to climb out...an unnecessary risk and an indication in watching the way it was done that he's lacking the experience. It was sloppily and poorly done.

Had he done it properly, the lower wingtip would have scribed a line at the same level as the bottom of the fuselage, and the outboard wing would have risen. Instead, he rolled about the longitudinal axis, lowering one wing and raising the other...an improper move.

As for the red bull flyers...this wasn't a pylon race to thrill crowds. It was a low approach by a B747, and the pass was not performed correctly. Furthermore, even the Xtras and other airplanes on the redbull tour pitch up when flying close to the ground. It may be slight, and you may not notice the amount of control input required to do it...but it's done. In fact, I watched one disqualified not long ago (amsterdam, I think) when he gained just a little too much altitude through the pylons doing this very thing.

Anybody with low level experience knows better than to establish a low constant speed run, then bank without pitching, to prevent the wing from dropping below the low pass altitude.

[silverelise]

FWIW to my completely untrained eye it looks like a small pitch up at 36 seconds, couple of seconds before the roll.

[SNS3Guppy]

The wing drops below the long axis of the airplane...and therein lies the fault.

[JanetFlight]

Thats the time when we separate the Men from the Boys...AWESOME!!:ok: