Bankstown Flying schools

[eliasg17]

Hello!
Could anybody tell recommened me some flying schools in Bankstown?
How about sydney flight training center?Are they good?

[DanArcher]

whilst I don't know much about SFTC, they might run out of aircraft soon slight problem with their Liberties :E

Jesse over at Clamback & hennessy is very good & know's his stuff, they also have some of the best maintained a/c on the field & all IFR yet still the cheapest to. having said that flight tests over their can be very stress full.......... :ouch:

Sydney Aviaiton center seem quite good as well, although at camden Airborne Aviation are a good bunch flying all near new aircraft (2000-06 models)

but at the end of the day go visit them all speak to their instructors & see what feels right for you.
Make sure you ask about ground breifings!! eg do they have set briefings they deliver to students before the start of a new exercise etc.
a good breif on the ground will save you time & money in the air

[eliasg17]

How about Basair?

[DanArcher]

never been there myself, had a friend that trained there so have heard a bit about them............... :oh: the only thing I can really say is that of their a/c of which I have seen they look pretty rundown, esp the Tobago :ooh:

[QF411]

Forget Basair. Forget SFTC. Pacific Flight Services or Whitworth Aviation are the only places to fly at IMHO.

[flysaucer1200]

I am from Aussie, and it still amazes me that the CAA ( now CASA ) can't implement a standard breifings, such as NZ CASA do. I understand about Aussie, much from a freind that trained at Basair, ( and from growing up there and flying at Tamair ) ( who had flown in NZ ) and couldn't get a standard or similar breifing from the list of instructors that would walk in to the breifing room. Every breifing different, each to their own. No formality!! Sad, really. But did hear about the future prospects, and sounded very much like NZ to me.


I could tell you more about Basair , but i will do that via PM

Kindly
FS120O

[spinKing]

Whilst standard briefings may sound like a good idea, the reason instructors have there own briefings is because they are made to THINK for themselves and to research topics in depth before constructing a brief. The end result being a more competent instructor IMHO.

As for Schools in BK, best you take advice of others by dropping in and having a chat to instructors, inspecting facilities etc. My students are very happy with our facilities and quality of instruction, so don't be guided by size alone (big or small). I love my job :) . PM me if you'd like more info.

[coke drinker]

From experience....

-Basair don't deserve a lot of the crap they get...
-Good luck in accessing SFTC. They're behind locked gates last I checked!
-Crane Air, now Pacific Flight Services are fantastic-almost a secret on the airport, really cheap with really great aeroplanes, good staff and seemingly endless aircraft availability.
-SAC seem quite good too.
-Schofields are also very good and professional.

[eliasg17]

What do you think about sydney aviation college?
Oh and just another thought,where do you think the quality and reputation of flight training is better,melbourne or sydney?I would prefer sydney beacuse of free accomodation ,but if its worth it i will go to melbourne:ok:Because i think that the schools in sydney arent so good...But what do i know...

[das Uber Soldat]

Nice post spinking, its pleasant to see some positive input about instructors on this board after wading through hundreds of 'back in my day' threads complaining about us kids being completely unable to understand the lift equation or how to fly a rectangle.

[CKJ]

From first-hand experience, Clamback & Hennessy or Whitworth are two good places to learn to fly. I have been with C&H for some years now and very happy for the whole experience. Great people, very knowledgeable! Ab-initio through to CPL / IR etc.

[holdmetight]

Whitworth Aviation (http://www.whitworthaviation.com.au)

:ok:

[The Original Jetpipe]

Stay away from the big schools... my recommendation would be Clamback and Hennesy and Schofields, the only set back with Schofields is the availability of the aircraft at the weekends.

Go take a look at all the schools and make your own choice.
TOJP.

[eliasg17]

Could anyone please tell me some information about basair?
I am allways talking about a fulltime course from 0 to cpl/mecir.

[ausindo]

Hey guys,

For me I am currently flying with Aerospace Aviation, I am finding it OK, but I have not been to other institutions, however I do have a class mate that came from Basair and said that it was OK as well.

I think most institutions in Bankstown are applying for the FEE-HELP scheme, as I am applying for that in Aerospace Aviation, this should be made available next year.

But all the best for you search for a right flying school. Here is the web address for the school that I am going to Learn to Fly - Professional Pilot Training with Aerospace Aviation Bankstown, Sydney, Australia (http://www.aerospaceaviation.com.au)

[coke drinker]

As a school Basair tends to be quite good. The biggest thing you need there to progress quickly is the ability to be pushy without being rude to ensure you get flights. It isn't so bad during the PPL training phases, but if you don't make yourself heard through your CPL Command Hour Building, you may drop behind. I've not heard a bad word about their current instructors either. Seems to be a good bunch from what mates training there have said.

[ksa5223]

+ 1 for Whitworth Aviation...

[eliasg17]

Has anyone got any info for whitworth and pacific flight services?How many planes they have,reputation etc

[Capt. Crocodile]

From first hand experience at Clamback and Hennesy I wouldn't recommend them.

They book a lot of students in for lessons then suddenly they get a contract to ferry a plane back from the U.S and so they cancel all your lessons and it's about another 6 weeks before you can get another lesson in and then before you know it, they get another contract to ferry a plane back from the U.S and your lessons are cancelled again. It would take you years to get your licence going down this path because you're just a means of them making an income in between aircraft ferry jobs.

A few students got fed up with this sort of treatment this year and left this flying school. Anyway, as BAL refused to renew Clamback and Henessy's lease, they are no longer on Bankstown airport.

[eliasg17]

Can anyone tell me some information about PFS and sydney aviation college?
:ok:

[coke drinker]

PFS have:
1 Cessna 152 (I think it may be an Aerobat-don't quote me on that though)
2 Piper Warrior II
1 Piper Warrior III
1 Piper Seminole

And access to Piper Archer and Beechcraft Duchess.

I hired one of the Warrior II aircraft recently, had a Garmin 430 in it and only set me back $175/hour which is less than pretty much everyone on Bankstown.

[Yougank]

1.Any School aids in Foreign CPL conversion to CASA CPL and how long does it take?

2.After Conversion into CASA,Where to go for an Instructor rating and is any school hiring instructors?



please enlighten.

Thanks

[willisp]

I'm about halfway through a PPL with Sydney Aviation College and would recommend them.

[aerocom]

Capt. Crocodile

I may be wrong but am pretty sure C & H are still at the feild and are paying the rent as per the court procedings. They are a good school and produce a pilot to a to notch standard.

[eliasg17]

Ok,thanks!Really who has the best reputation in bankstown?What would look better on a CV?Do you think that melbourne has better flying schools?
:}

[Kickatinalong]

I think you should stay in Greece, don't come to my school PLEASE. You ask for advice and as soon as someone gives it to you then you ask about some other school, you will be a pain in the arze to train. Do your OWN homework we can only handfeed you so much. Get off your backside and go to these places and talk to them yourself. For Christ sake.
Kickatinalong.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[eliasg17]

Stay in Greece

You cant tell me what to do.

don't come to my school PLEASE

Ok i wont...

you will be a pain in the arze to train

Maybe,thats because i want the best out of my training...I thought private schools are in business because some students pay some money.So if i am a pain in the arze,they simply have to get used to it or they should tell me to get lost...then i will go somewhere else.

Do your OWN homework

Thats what i am doing...thats why i am so confused and asking all these questions.

Get off your backside and go to these places and talk to them yourself. For Christ sake.


I will be going to australia in july to search some schools,after i finish searching europe...See i am off of my backside...Oh and remind me which is your flying school so i dont come...otherwise it was your request for me to stay away...

don't come to my school PLEASE

[nick2007]

pacificflight.com.au

[Hobbit]

If you want to be treated like a professional and taught to think for yourself go to Bill Whitworth. He is a gentleman and will do everything to make sure students acheive what they are capable of in the time frame available to them. When you finish with Bill you can rest assured that you will be safe and competent.
As an aside, in December one of his students finished his commercial and was hired the next day. The reason; Bill is so highly thought of that employers seek his opinion on stidents and act on it.

[ksa5223]

www.whitworthaviation.com.au (http://www.whitworthaviation.com.au)

+1 For Whitworth Aviation

[wild goose]

yougank
i am about to begin at Schofields - FAA CPL to CASA CPL
If you like - send me a PM and we can combine knowledge
good luck

[eliasg17]

Hello.
Thankyou all for your responses.I see the best in bankstown is whitworth,PFS,sydney aviation college.I will check them all when i visti australia.I Have also seen on the internet about a school called aerospace aviation.Are there any opinions?
Thanks:)

[mcgrath50]

I would stay away from aerospace, basair also. They all are a bit of a sausage factory.

Check out schofields-flying-club.com.au/

Well worth a check out on your tour of Bankstown

[eliasg17]

Hello.When you say a sausage factory what do you mean?

[KittyKatKaper]

Students and Money are fed into one end of a machine.
The machinery is started.
A short time later a string of PPLs' emerge from the other end of the factory.
The factory is cleaned and the above process is repeated.

[eliasg17]

Hello all!
Thankyou again all for your information:ok:
Does anyone know anything about proflite?

[DanArcher]

that was english?.... :ooh:

[Cap'n Arrr]

that was english

Just without the vowels :E

[Zap Brannigan]

Aerospace is definitely not the worst on the field! They are a sausage factory but their quality of students is much better than the average.

Look for instructor / student ratio or at least someone who'll be responsible for your progression. You don't want to become 'lost in the system' which happens often at the larger schools.

What's Curtis like these days? They were great a few years ago when I was there :ok:

[wheatbix]

I've done a bit of training at both Schofields and whitworths so can't really comment on any of the other schools.

I'd heard good things about Schofields but they're having severe growing pains. They used to be a good club but have turned into another sausage factory as of late. Some of the instructors there are good, others strut around waving their brand new grade 3 rating around like its made of gold. They have some ok planes, but the majority are overworked and undermaintained. Don't believe me? In the past month, I've heard both their arrows on the radio 7 times at YSBK with gear troubles.

If you can get a good instructor there (and there are some), then go for it. However if you're not just a little pushy, expect to end up at the back of a line that never ends struggling to find bookings and airworthy planes.

I've only done a little bit of training at whitworths but have thoroughly enjoyed it so far. The instructors there are knowledgeable and experienced and always go out of their way to answer questions

If you're looking for quality training and happy to move around, I'd steer clear of bankstown. While there are exceptions, the majority of schools at Bankstown are focused primarily on maximising throughput and profit rather than looking out for the student. The majority of instructors at Bankstown are just counting the hours until they can get the hell out of instructing and into a jet job with minimal or no experience whatsoever outside of instructing (ie they've gone straight from their CPL -> NVFR -> I.R.).

Find a school where the instructors actually want to be there and instructing. Have a look at the condition of their planes. Are they looked after and clean or tidy and falling apart. Make sure their instructor(s) have a broad background. While it's always going to be the case that there are instructors out there with 200 hours (blind leading the blind), there should also be experienced instructors there to supervise. Have a look at their booking sheet and see how full they are (can be good or bad obviously).

Have a look at where they get their maintenance done (whether it's "in house" or not). This can be an advantage as you can see the aeroplane "naked" and not only learn more about the machine you're flying, but also ask the mechanics about anything.

What sort of connections do they have? Will they be of any use in getting your first job? Again, be careful what they say to you here. Best to speak to past students.

What is the pass rate and waiting time on their CPL flight tests? Is the CFI a hands on bloke or someone who just comes in every now and again to have a look at things and sign some paper.

If you can, try and spend at least a day at a prospective school, watch how they go about it, and talk to current students. All other things being equal an Instructor who has industry experience and a grade 1 rating will be better and worth paying more for.

There are thousands of questions that you can ask, but the main thing is to be comfortable with the surroundings. Are the instructors and staff friendly, happy and easy to get along with? Nothing worse than having to sit in with a bloke who is **** all the time and doing more bitching about his lot in life than teaching you to fly...............

The best thing to do is after you've narrowed it down to 3 schools go for a TIF with each one.

Take careful note of how they welcomed you, gave you a suitable briefing, gave you much of the stick time, debriefed you, and whether you felt you wanted to train there.

Don't make the decision until after the third flight. Yeah, it will cost you extra for those 2 flights which didn't corrugate your iron, but you will be happier in the end.

Good luck, wherever you end up choosing.

[ausindo]

I am a student at Aerospace Aviation, and it is true what Zap Brannigan stated, check for student to instructor ratio, because there will be days where it is a good day, but no instructor, even though there are planes.

I started studying at Aerospace Aviation in November, and only getting out 6 hours, but it is not only instructors, most of it has to do with the weather, but 10% of the times, it was instructors.

I can not comment on which school is better as I have only started in this area, but compared to Basair and Aerospace aviation, from what I have seen and know, Basair has been having the most accidents since I started flying and 2 from what I know have been fatal (which is a sad loss), and 1 injured.

I do admit there are a lot of Indian students out there (not a racist remark!)

[coke drinker]

No, Basair has had only one fatal accident. That was the unfortunate coming together at 2RN. That can not be pinned on anyone. To write Basair off as a result of that is incredibly naiive. The majority of the Basair instructors are caring, good instructors who do their utmost for their students. It is a busy place yes, but they are putting some good product out the other side.

[ausindo]

The other accident which someone told me, was that of a drunken student pilot (I may be mistaken), someone told me that the student was from Basair but again I may be mistaken.

However, if you are looking for a school, in the end all schools have a record whether good or bad, wheatbix details everything you need to find a school that will suit you.

You already have the options there, and once you arrive to Australia, go to these places at Bankstown, and if you would like to live somewhere close to the school, be sure to know that public transport in Sydney is not the best in the world, it will get you to A to B but it will take you long and maybe expensive.

Another thing, I have been hearing stories from Indian students at my school that it is sometimes not safe at night at Bankstown, be sure that you know the neighbourhood (hopefully at day time).

I wish I can help you out more, but my sources are very limited, so all the best for your choices!

[Cap'n Arrr]

Just some advice to anyone reading this thread:

- Be careful of current students pushing the school they are at. They're very likely to be biased towards their current school. I'm not saying don't listen to them, definitely take everything into the equation when you're looking to spend this much money.
- Junior instructors are not necessarily bad. They have to start somewhere, and just try and get an idea of how willing they are to help you.
- As you may have noticed in the last few posts, many people tend to gossip. A lot of the "facts" presented in this thread are "a friend told me" and then he was told by his friend etc. Take all "I've heard that..." stories with several grains of salt.
- Remember that the end product of your training has as much to do with you and your attitude as it does with the training you have recieved. You can't have a good end result without both, so just because a school has put out a few bad or really good students doesn't necessarily tell you about the quality of training available there.

Good luck!

[eliasg17]

:ok:Thankyou all for your information and advices!I will check them all out in july when i visit Australia.A friend of mine just sent me a link of a degree course in sydney the UNSW aviation.I dont know what it is...does anyone have any information?

[mr.tos]

haha aviation degrees :rolleyes:

just run a search

[coke drinker]

what mr. tos is saying is don't waste your time with a degree.

[57GoldTop]

And not to mention money, as a full fee paying uni student.

[SchoolKidPilot]

I just got the confirmation letter for entrance to Aerospace Aviation.

They just raised the course costs by $20,000-30,000.. due to "rising fuel costs".

I don't think I'll be going there:
$81,000 for CPL+MECIR+FIR
:ugh:

[das Uber Soldat]

I thought the price of fuel was falling?

cheeky buggers.

[Speedbird 9]

Must agree with SchoolKidPilot, got my letter the other day and they put their prices up by $23k!!!:eek: So naturally I told them where to go and have taken my money down to Bill Whitworth where I am sure I will receive a very high standard of training.

[eliasg17]

Does anyone know how many aircraft whitworth aviation has?:)

[PyroTek]

Whitworth Aviation (http://www.whitworthaviation.com.au/fleet.htm)

is it really that hard to use google?!

[Ambitious]

Whitworth aviation currently has 3 warriors + 1 duchess. Great school!

p.s. just hope they won't get into this "sausage production line" business by taking on international students. :ooh: This school is just so unique for training outstanding local Aussie pilots :ok:

[eliasg17]

Pyrotek i aksed how MANY aircraft they operate and not what aircraft they have.I have googled them and found there website but they dont say about how many aircraft they have.Thankyou ambitious.

[eliasg17]

Does anyone know anything about SFTC?I havent heard the best words for them but just asking.I got an email from them and they seem ok.But who can tell from an information pack?:ok:

[das Uber Soldat]

Do SFTC have any aircraft left?

[eliasg17]

:}..well i guess...probally:P Is it so Bad?

[coke drinker]

I know one instructor at SFTC-he is fantastic. Can't talk about the others as I've not met any of them.

The reason for the dig was because of the amount of incidents the SFTC Liberty's have been in recently. I'm not going to go into all the rumours and innuendo about the school, you will have to make your own decision and I do highly recommend you come across and have a look at various places before you commit to anything.

On a side note, did some flying out of Camden the other day, why do SFTC Liberty aircraft make broadcasts on the CTAF frequency when 6 miles away at 4,500'?

[b_sta]

On a side note, did some flying out of Camden the other day, why do SFTC Liberty aircraft make broadcasts on the CTAF frequency when 6 miles away at 4,500'?

Inbound call?

[coke drinker]

Nup....6 miles at 4,500 to overfly at 3,600. why? just got in the way of broadcasting on an already congested frequency.

[ksa5223]

If you have done any IFR stuff in that area, you would know how much traffic actually uses CN as somewhere to just "overfly". Many student pilots on Nav's use CN as a waypoint. I think the radio calls are wise if there is room.

[coke drinker]

So I take it KSA that you're an SFTC student? And again, I beg the question, with a place as busy as Camden is a call to say you're above the Zone necessary when you operate on the see and avoid principle as a VFR pilot? I expect IFR pilots to make these calls, but VFR its just frequency congestion! With 7 aircraft in the circuit, it is hard enough to just get in the base calls with the inbound calls, let alone Liberty Man calling to say he is going to fly over the top of you by more than 2000' :mad:

[capt787]

there could be an IFR aircraft holding at 3700ft over CN NDB

[ksa5223]

Better yet the liberty may have his transponder off :{
No I am not a student. Seeing and Avoiding is much easier if you know where to look!

[eliasg17]

Any more information regarding with SFTC training quality?:ok:

[b_sta]

I'm with coke drinker on this one. As a regular CN attendee, I can attest as to how congested it often gets, especially since Hoxton Park closed. No need for non-required/essential calls on days where the circuit is already packed to the brim, unless they're crucial to safety and situational awareness of other pilots, which I don't think being overhead at 3600 really is. Better to let those guys inbound or joining the circuit get their calls in.

[eliasg17]

Hello again...
I dont want to get annoying but is there anyone out there that can tell me more information about SFTC?:ok::)

[coke drinker]

Sydney Flight Training Centre (http://www.sydneyflighttraining.com.au/)

or call them... +61 2 9791 0100

[eliasg17]

I have contacted them but they all say the good things...I wanted to know from someones personel expirience...oh well,never mind.:)

[wishiwasflying]

SFTC has recently requipt its fleet with new Liberty aircraft and a some new C172s. They probably have the most modern fleet at the airport. They have 2 good sims and some well presented 152s and a couple of duchesses i think. They have a number of different nationality students there. I believe that most of the issues with the Liberty that have been alluded to relate to a few landing incidents, so unfortunately a couple of students poor handling have created a problem that is getting more attention than it deserves. They generally have a good name a bankstown. Maybe you could do better, but you could definately do worse than training at SFTC. (No I am not a student or past student, just answering the question asked)

[das Uber Soldat]

I couldn't agree more that being involved in not 1 but 2 fatal accidents within a few months, as well as making flight safety magazines accident page a full 3 times in a single month is in no way deserving of all the attention they're getting

:ok:

[GADRIVR]

So weren't they the crowd that had to get rid of 4 or 5 instructors for apparent drug misuse late last year?

[muffman]

b_sta etc:

I agree with your point about non essential radio calls at CTAFs, however I would argue that an aeroplane overflying at 3600 is "in the vicinity" of the aerodrome, to quote the AIP. Especially given the NDB holding pattern is at 3700 and there is often glider activity to the South right up to the base of class C.

What I would say is non-essential is a call on every leg of the circuit in busy airspace such as CN. Just a call turning base with intentions or turning final with intentions is enough. YHOX had an entry in ERSA suggesting that pilots only make the minimum necessary broadcasts in the circuit for this reason. Not sure if CN has the same - haven't got an ERSA handy.

Furthermore, the old 'locals' who rant and rave on the radio at anyone who dares step out of line or talking about a game of touch footy with the inbound chopper pilots as I heard the other day really is just getting in the way!

[eliasg17]

Thanks for the repplies guys!:ok:

[HTFU]

Technically not in bankstown but in camden +1 for Air Combat Australia
Air Combat Australia | Training today, for the pilots of tomorrow (http://www.aircombat.com.au/training/)
go speak to Reha Ekinci he'll look after you....:E

[Ultralights]

so Eliasg17, Where did you choose? its been 10 months now.... :zzz:

[birus1]

tell me more about basair

[flyingpom]

If you want some professional ( ex military ) non sausage factory style training then have a look at Red Baron:

Red Baron | Advanced Flight Training | Bankstown Airport Sydney (http://www.redbaron.com.au/flight_training/)

They are a bit more expensive that the likes of Basair etc but you get what you pay for i.e they DO NOT cut corners just to make a few extra dollars. You also get to learn on an Alpha / Robin which unlike some other training aircraft out there does not handle like a bus.

[castrol]

Hi Folks, 1st post for me so hope I'm not intruding...I'm looking at re-entering the instructing scene probably at BK on a part-time basis, Ive got aprx 700 instructing and aprx 3000TT...If anyone knows if any of the schools at BK are hiring I'd appreciate the tip-off...be good to know before I knock on doors...cheers

[SgtBundy]

Castrol - not sure if they are hiring, but Schofield's recently had two instructors depart for Qlink according to their newsletter - might be worth inquiring.

[MarkZ]

Any information on Pacific Flight Services for training?

I'm focused on going ab initio to CPL. Met up with one of the instructors a week ago, had a good chat and he seemed focused on the training and student instead of the money. Also had a look at the fleet, which looked well maintained.

So yea any info from past/current students, instructors or whoever on Pacific Flight Services would be great :)

[castrol]

Flew with the CFI at PFS (Bankstown) and found her incredibly helpful, reliable and friendly. Also try Camden if you can, Curtis Aviation would be the pic I reckon...you may even learn to fly properly.