News: DL/NW Pilots Seniority Integration decided.

[weasil]

The Associated Press is reporting today that a decision has been announced in the DL/NW arbitration merging the pilot seniority lists. Instead of date of hire, they are going to merge the list based on status and current equipment (IE: Widebody Captain).

In a memo to Delta pilots just before midnight Monday, the head of Delta's pilots union, Lee Moak, said the foundation of the panel's integration method is "ratioed status and category" with a "rational treatment for the minor attrition differences that exist between the two pilot groups."



I have many friends at both carriers and will be interested to hear their responses in the next few days.

[AquiElJefe]

This was on the DALPA forum, before it was removed by their web master. It's self explanatory. DALPA screwed their retired pilots and did a poor job for most of the DAL pilots

Recap from this memo last spring:

TO: All Northwest Pilots

FROM: NWA MEC Chairman Dave Stevens

DATE: April 14, 2008

The seniority negotiations broke down over the Delta pilot leadership’s desire to include aircraft options, not just orders, in the seniority integration ratio. We were not willing to adjust the seniority integration ratio in favor of Delta pilots based on options, particularly when such options were unlikely to be exercised, other than as replacement aircraft, in the worsening economic environment. The resulting difference in our respective positions on a ratio was substantial. The actual breakdown occurred when, in response to my suggestion that we both compromise and bring that to our respective MECs for their consideration, we were advised that the Delta pilot group could not move off their last ratio proposal.

Unfortunately, the Delta pilot leadership rejected arbitration, whether expedited or not, as a means to resolve the seniority list dispute. From that point, Delta management, the Delta pilot leadership and Northwest management chose a different path. NWA management proposed a traditional merger to Delta management. Then Delta management entered into bilateral negotiations with the representatives of the Delta MEC. At the same time, they abandoned the joint pilot contract approach and have, instead, agreed to a Delta pilot contract amendment which will increase the pay and benefits for only Delta pilots. The Northwest pilots are excluded from the economic benefits.


8 months later and after millions of union dollars spent on the SLI arbitration that DALPA rejected, there is a joint contract, DALPA lost the aircraft options argument, B-747 walled off from Delta pilots for 5 years after a single operating certificate, the "pullout / plugin" to fix the NWA pilot expectations of advancement due to older pilots retiring (274 subtraction of NWA pilot seniority numbers), and the bottom of the list being mostly Delta pilots (48 bottom solely Delta) are all in former NWA pilots' favor.

Pitiful expensive and divisive DALPA politics - business as usual. Northwest pilots kept their previously earned qual and nonqual pensions which Delta pays premiums and from their treasury, and they got big raises - especially on the heavy iron. AND they can hold their heads up for not taking a bribe and screwing their retirees. Congratulations to them. THIS TIME the DALPA back stabbing attempt was rebuffed, and there will be decades of repercussions from active former NWA pilots as well as retired Delta pilots. Makes you proud not to have any affiliation with that rancid union branch.


Over on the "dark side" there are dozens of strings and hundreds of posts mostly negative. Looks like the windfall from pushing early retirees out the door was short lived. Here's a sample:

* Is it too late to renegotiate???!!!! Give NW what they want!! I did better with the NW DOH seniority list than arbitrated list. There are MANY people hired after me at NW that are now senior to me! I was hired in 1991 and have 1995 hires senior to me.

I want the NW list! Call now!! Maybe it's not too late!



* And ya'll thought the Detroit bailout talk was about automakers.....



* I had the same thing. Moved below DOH somehow. Hasn't been explained to me yet. 91 DOH



* It gets worse: The NWA guy that was going to be below him on NWA's dream sheet is now 400 numbers SENIOR to him.

And those guys hired years after him but now senior to him? Most likely younger than he is. A lot of our guys have had their career expectations lowered today.

Has the larger, better-paid, growing, acquiring airline's pilots ever done worse in an SLI?



* The NW pilot one number senior to me (plus many more) were hired 1, 2, 3 and many 4 years after me. On the NW proposed DOH seniority list, these people would be junior to me. So I am literally much worse off than if we would have just "given in" to everything that NW wanted!

The arbitrators gave NW more than they even asked for!!

[RWEDAREYET]

Aqui,

No offense, but what did you expect. ALPA has been collectively screwing it's membership for years. There is no clear merger policy, the language is vague at best.

What was your reaction to the USAirways/America West seniority integration? Did you care? Many of the USAirways pilots lost 18+ years of seniority. That's right, the bottom America West pilot (2005 hire) went senior to a 1988 hire at USAirways, the bottom 1800 or so of the USAirways list was stapled.

This was done because ALPA doesn't have a clear merger policy. Your career expectations mean nothing. As a matter of fact, ALPA could care less about your career expectations. ALPA cares about ALPA and the 2% of your income.

I have no sympathy for any ALPA pilot when it comes to merger integration. Collectively, all the membership of ALPA should have got off their butts and done something about the screw job the USAirways pilots got. Instead, the USAirways pilots had to do it on there own and get rid of ALPA.

Instead of using funds to fix the broken policies, ALPA spent millions trying to keep the USAirways pilot group from leaving ALPA. (remember the 2%) ALPA didn't care enough to say this award is wrong, but they did care a whole lot when they found they would be loosing some 6000 pilot's 2%. I wonder how much of your 2% was used during this time??

[Rubis]

NWA ALPA has a flagrant history of hosing their brethern to better themselves. As I had one of them tell me years ago. "I am one of America's first choices, I deserve better than you". Says it all. EXPECTATIONS:ugh:

[Ignition Override]

Aside from the major mistakes made by ALPA,
the more senior or junior dudes can fly any widebody Captain seat they want. Speak for nobody else.
Including a large twin-engine Boeing which my seniority might hold.

This is sacrilege and heresy (and so what...), but narrowbodies are good enough for some of us and can equate to longer, healthier lives.
Would rather have a good immune system and a more delicate aging 'corpus' primarily on central time-neither Brussels, Rome, exotic Mumbai, nor KIX.

[Mick16]

Aqui,

The reality is that Northwest had the oldest pilot group amongst all the US legacy carriers, so some of your concerns will be alleviated by a disproportionate number of former nwa retirements. Most people held a similar position (percentage-wise) within their respective companies in the overall list.
I really think Delta made out slightly better than nwa in this arrangement. Neither side got what they wanted (the arbitrator stated that this was a marriage of equals, not a takeover) Consider the situation of the nwa 2001 hires, who suffered through through 9-11, bankruptcy and furlough, who now have some mega-junior Feb 08 Delta new hires senior to them.

[Gumby]

You know how you can tell it was a fair integration? Everyone thinks they got screwed!:{

I'm former TWA so all I can say is: You had arbitration.

My way to settle it would be for both sides to give the arbitrator their wish list with the understanding he can reverse the names: Sort of like Mom letting you cut the cake and your brother choosing the first piece.

Since I see both Delta and NWA guys complaining, it's probably in the ball park. Could have set up DOH at the founding of ALPA but the Have's at the time didn't want it. Now, some of the Have's are the HaveNot's.

Just my .02

[Pixie Queen]

Amazing isn't it? First they get ALPO to change the Merger policy away from DOH, then when they get bought out of BK and the Merger policy is followed to the letter they go crying and screaming like a child at the checkout lane that can't have the bubble gum. Big WHAAAAAA. I want my mommy. Thats how childish this whole toxic merger has been for three years now. There are Two(2) facts to rember about the AWA/USAir merger: 1. USAir was in BK 2. AWA was not
Now its in the courts hands and the Eastholes are 3-0 in a legal venue.
It's to bad we couldn't have just accepted what was "Final and Binding" and moved on with "A" job and some security.