Manchester Air Show - Barton [Archive]

Shaggy Sheep Driver

11th Dec 2008, 23:13

Well, I don't know about that. But they were great shows! I think they started before that - I remember attending a 'Barnstormers' show at Barton in the late '60s or very early 70s.

The Friday 'practice days' were better than the show day, however.;)

But - a few memories (I did my PPL there in 1978 and flew based aircraft from there until we moved our Chippy to Liverpool a few years back).

Concorde!

A BAC Super 1-11 full of spotters from Manchester doing low fly-bys with one main wheel still retracted.

A touch and go by a DC3

A Don Bullock 'Sally B' display where from 10 back in the crowd, only the top of the tailfin could be seen as he flew down the runway!

Tragic crash of a Midget Mustang off a barrel roll, right into the ground.

The Harrier blasting all the carrots out of the farmer's field as he hovered just outside the airfield northern boundary in a noisy cloud of earth!

Some wonderful fast jet and big-piston displays. The Bearcat was one that has stayed in my mind. As he dived, in an ever-increasing scream, onto the field he pulled out at about 20 feet adjacent to a car dealer's tent, which all but collapsed in the wake. I can still see those shiney-suited salesmen fleeing that tent as they thought armageddon had arrived (it very nearly had!). In a pullup in that sprited display, I saw a large bird, several feet away from the Bearcat, felled like an ox by the pressure wave and falling out of the sky like a limp rag doll. You don't see balls-out stuff like that these days!

The mighty Vulcan, pounding the Barton turf and the chests of the onlookers in a full-power low-level wing-over. Several times!

One of my flying instructors and another Barton member killed in an aerobatic accident immediately after one show. After that, there was a 'no flying' rule after the show had finished.

Brian Lecomber arriving in the overhead in the bright red Stampe on the Saturday before the show. As he commenced an impromtu display, all the various pre-show activities on the field stopped - even the 'Kerdunker' that was hammering-in fence posts - as everyone was completely spellbound. When he finished, there was immediate, spontanious, and very loud applause (which Brian in the Blattering Stampe could not of course hear) from everyone on the field.

The year I watched the show from the northern boundary - patrolling police horses unfazed by the shattering sudden roar of low-level Starfighters, and the very ground shaking (it is a peat bog) when a helo dropped a car from a few hundred feet into the field behind me (don't ask)!

And lots more!

They were great days, the like of which in these PC times we are unlikely to see again.

SSD

G-KEST

13th Dec 2008, 11:33

Looking at this thread brought back some pleasant memories and a check on my airshows data base.

I flew in the Barnstormers Air Shows at Barton on the 16 August 1970, the 15 August 1971 and the 20 August 1972. A total of 13 display slots in Tiger Moths G-AHRC and G-APVT plus Nipper G-AVKJ which included aerobatics, crazy flying, balloon bursting, streamer cutting, flour bombing, limbo, crackshot and stand on wing items. I also flew as No 2 in the Rothmans team display in the 1971 show flying Stampe SV4C G-AYGR.

One of the shows was held on a day of very strong winds and while flying the Tiger I managed to do a vertical circuit with no turns by taking off and climbing to 500 feet. Then decelerating until I was drifted back to a position where I could lower the nose for the approach and landing. Our ground crew then grabbed the aircraft and we used the shelter of the fire truck to get back to our parking slot. The crowd were highly appreciative of our efforts.

My only flying involvement in the Manchester Air Shows organised by the resident aero club was in 1979 on 6 June in Lindsey Walton's Nord 1002 Pingouin G-ATBG masquerading, as usual, as a Bf108.

It was sad to see this annual event disappear from the airshow calender. A victim of ever increasing costs and regulatory burdens. Those involved on the organising team did a grand job for so many years.

Cheers,

Reaper 69
:D

zotbox

9th Mar 2009, 12:38

Can anyone shed any light on one of my earliest aviation memories?

My father took me to the Airshow at Barton several times in the late 1970's and I remember on one occasion witnessing the crash of a Biplane (which I seem to recall was a Tiger Moth) into a field behind the crowd line.

I can find no trace on the www (Including the AAIB site) of a report related to this and have often wondered about the full details of this accident.

I would appreciate it if anyone here on pprune could fill in the missing details for me.

maclad99

9th Mar 2009, 13:48

Hi Reaper69, I think this is the windy day you mentioned for the Barnstormers in the early 1970s. Sorry about the quality of the Agfa slide film

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/Cestrian/AEGCBG-ANMODH82Aaa.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/Cestrian/AEGCBG-AHRCDH82Aa.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/Cestrian/AEGCBHB-EPBKZ-8a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/Cestrian/AEGCBG-ARGGDHC-1a.jpg

treadigraph

9th Mar 2009, 14:01

Zotbox, believe it was a Stearman which spun in... Read a little about it recently somewhere and I think pilot actually survived.

zotbox

9th Mar 2009, 23:01

Thank you for your response Treadigraph, I had hoped that no fatalities had occured as a result of the accident.
I shall do some more digging on the subject.

SPIT

9th Mar 2009, 23:24

Hi NWEST
I was always under the impression that the display at Woodford organised by the RAFA and sponsored by a Manchester Newspaper was the main Manchester Air Display ???? :confused::confused: Please tell me if was just for the NW RAFA :ok::ok:

treadigraph

10th Mar 2009, 07:35

Hi Zotbox,

No prob, found a precis of the accident report which doesn't mention Barton, forgot to bring it to work - pretty sure there is an article from a few months earlier which does mention Barton in relation to the same incident, around 1976 or 77. Bit more research tonight...

Two on board, both survived - it was more or less a very heavy, fast crash landing in a cornfield after entering a spin rather lower than was wise! Tough old boid the Stearman.

Edit:

Both injured. I can't find the reference that definitely links this with Barton, nor can I identify a Stearman on the UK register that might have been the culprit!

Five minutes later - from Warbird_Central.com:

8822 to N55720, then to G-BDCF May 5, 1975. Registration cancelled after aircraft failed to recover from spin and crashed at Barton Aerodrome, England
Jul 17, 1977, but one source says remains sold to owner in USA

Wunderful thing the web... bet the wreck went Stateside...

one11

10th Mar 2009, 11:56

The Barton show had more than its fair share of accidents with perhaps the most tragic all round being the loss of the last flying Mosquito with both of its crew on 21 July 1996 . This I think ended the Barton shows.

learjet50

10th Mar 2009, 13:13

I Remember we used to do Pleasure flight at Barton on the Airshow days in the BN2 G-AXXH of the short Runway (Which was short even for the BN2)

They were good days and always there was always a good Crowd there.

Do you remember the C150 that had an accident about 1975 on the Airshow day ??

It was removed to the Hangar where The owner of the Cessna Dealearship at Leeds at the time ensured it was written off with a few short sharp blows with a Big Hammer

Happy Days
ra

nwest

11th Mar 2009, 17:48

Hi NWEST
I was always under the impression that the display at Woodford organised by the RAFA and sponsored by a Manchester Newspaper was the main Manchester Air Display ???? http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/confused.gifhttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/confused.gif Please tell me if was just for the NW RAFA http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gifhttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Woodford was organised by the NW area of RAFA - and that was always the "Woodford Airshow".

The Barton shows were always called "Manchester Airshow" to differentiate them from Woodford.

The Barton show had more than its fair share of accidents with perhaps the most tragic all round being the loss of the last flying Mosquito with both of its crew on 21 July 1996 . This I think ended the Barton shows.
Not strictly true. The last big, 'proper' air show at Barton (under the Manchester Airshow name) was actually May 1994. These were followed by far smaller events (with just a handful of items) in 1995 and 1996 - the event the Mosquito crashed at was actually called "Midsummer Madness", also featured (IIRC) a Spitfire, the Crunchie Wingwalkers and a navy Sea King.

You're right though in the sense that there have been no air displays whatsoever at Barton since 21/07/1996. Only the odd fly in since. A great shame, was such a nice venue for a show.

zotbox

11th Mar 2009, 18:38

"8822 to N55720, then to G-BDCF May 5, 1975. Registration cancelled after aircraft failed to recover from spin and crashed at Barton Aerodrome, England
Jul 17, 1977, but one source says remains sold to owner in USA "

Thanks very much for your efforts Treadigraph, I doubt that I would have found that information in a month of Sundays!

And now I have another aviation related website with which to while away the hours!

Thanks again,

Zotbox

Shaggy Sheep Driver

12th Mar 2009, 23:52

Was there a Spitfire there the day of the Mossie's demise? I don't remember that. I was off to the north aerobatting our Chippy when I head of the crash over the radio. Saw the smoke off the end of 09 as I got back on the ground just before the field was closed.

I'd chosen the Mossie display as the one to miss as I wanted to fly that day, and judged that would be the least exciting display. I'd seen if many times before,and it never seemed to do anything extreme, which is why, when I heard that radio call as I looped the Chippy several miles to the north "the crash is to the west of the field", it didn't at first register that it was the Mossie that was being referred to.

Tragic day. But not a 'Barton Airshow' day. The airshow was big public event with many acts and most of the field full of parked cars. This was a 'casual' mini show day, with few other than entusiasts present.

3REDS

16th Mar 2009, 14:39

Back in the 90's when I was a young ATC cadet I remember an Air2000 757 doing a fantastic low level display! Does anybody else recall this or is it just my vivid imagination. Would also love to know the reg...to see if in later life I have flown this bird.

BladePilot

16th Mar 2009, 15:00

3Reds. You were not mistaken. An Air 2000 B757 did appear at the show one year, I was there in the VIP enclosure. It's appearance at the show was kept a secret until the very last minute but a few guys picked up the call sign on their scanners and figured out that something special was about to happen. I think it was flown by Capt Bob Screen but I can't remember which 757 it was although I think it may have been OC. He did a high speed pass throttles open, another high speed in idle (spooky) and a slow pass in landing config before a final high speed pass. I recall the aircraft pulled up into an incredibly steep climb after it's final pass and you could hear the crowd gasp as it disappeared into the clouds.

The ATC guy for the day used to be a guy named Brown? who was a Manchester Airport controller I think? a great guy.

Shaggy Sheep Driver

16th Mar 2009, 16:26

Manchester ATC's Tony Brown and Paul Eyte used to do the controlling on the day. Both are now retired, and both were 'distinctive' on the radio. In particular Tony had a very distinct RT style, well known to flyers in the Manchester airspace back in the '80s and '90s.

SSD

STATSMAN

16th Mar 2009, 17:28

Tony Brown used to "control" many air shows around the UK. I have spoken to him many time both on the air & in the flesh, great guy!

Statsman

BladePilot

16th Mar 2009, 17:30

SSD
Thanks for the memories! I recall Tony being an absolute gentleman and an ace controller who was well respected by many of the AMM crews based at Manchester his name was often mentioned during briefings along the lines of 'I hope it's Tony on today' or 'it was great to get back off a long homeward sector and hear Tony's friendly voice when we called up Manchester'
I remember chatting with him one time and he was giving out a little (kinda tongue in cheek) about the young whipper-snappers coming into the job at MAN he commented about how he'd taken over a shift to find half a dozen aircraft stacked because the young 'un needed time to arrange them neatly for their approach. He took the seat and got about to work 'pushing tin' style as the young controller looked on aghast at his skill and coolness!
:ok:

nannodnai

16th Mar 2009, 18:51

I was off to the north aerobatting our Chippy when I head of the crash over the radio. Saw the smoke off the end of 09 as I got back on the ground just before the field was closed

How strange ! I was also out flying that day, and first heard of the accident on the radio. We'd been to Carlisle in G-BFIG and there was a reference to "the fire engines getting to the crash site" just as I tuned in Barton frequency on the return journey. I maintained silence for a few minutes, but then asked where the accident was. I still remember being told that the Barton runway was usable, but that the aerodrome was officially unlicensed, since the fire truck had left the field to attend at the accident site.

Also remember Tony Brown's very distinctive voice and style on the radio. Were there any other ATCO's who said "Cheerio" so nicely ?

Shaggy Sheep Driver

16th Mar 2009, 22:36

Tony was highly professional, very clear in what he was communicating to pilots, and absolutly 'kept you in the picture'. A typical transmission to a light aircraft holding for a gap to get into EGCC would be "G-AB, I have not forgotten you, I will get you in just as soon as I can". And you knew he would.

But he didn't take prisoners with the less than competant, either. I remember him at a Barton show asking a C172 driver if he was happy to taxi through a restricted gap past a parked aircraft on the apron. "Roger" came the reply from Mr Cessna. "Is your roger an Affirmative?" (that dates it), replied Tony.

There used to be another contoller at EGCC back then whose name I don't know, but he had a very laid-back RT style. A typical transmission of his to me, returning in a light aircraft one Sunday evening, was "Tango Sierra.... your traffic is a Trident on a six mile final. When you see 'im, ....nip in behind 'im".

Those were the days!

SSD

BladePilot

17th Mar 2009, 10:54

Slight drift off thread.
Reminds me of a visit to the tower in Kirkwall many many years ago on a particularly gusty afternoon when the duty controller was talking to an inbound BEA Viscount after giving the Pilot all the usual info he finished by saying 'and I shall continue to pass wind during your approach'! I swear I could see the Viscounts wings wiggle as the crew fought to stiffle the laughter;)

Back to Barton. I remember the Vulcan doing a grand display there and setting off all the car alarms as it climbed out in a magnificant display of power. The field was always full of spectators it really was a great event I recall lots of folks would have roof racks on their cars fitted with boards or planks so they could sit up there on picnic chairs for a grandstand view.

I recall they also used to get good support from the Old Flying Machine Company based at Duxford.

Shaggy Sheep Driver

17th Mar 2009, 17:27

Ah yes, car alarms... I remember attending a Friday 'press day' prior to the Barton show. I was standing by a Sea King which was parked and shut down just the other side of the fence from the car park, when a Harrier, low and fast approached the field from the north. "Just aim for the Sea King", said the controller. The Harrier streaked in at about 20 feet AGL and and only just subsonic (it was silent as it approached, growing rapidly from a spec to an aeroplane).

It flashed over the Sea King in an tremendous crescendo of sound - the helicopter's rotor blades flexed considerabley in the slipstream as it flashed a few feet directly over its mast head at about mach 0.98. And all the car alarms in the car park went off. :ok:

I loved press days. Even the more lax airshow rules back then didn't apply on press days.

SSD

mlc

17th Mar 2009, 17:58

I was there the day the mini Mustang went in. Despite the tragic event, the prganiser were very professional in keeping the show going.

I also seem to remember that an F111 (I think) did it's display over Manchester Airport rather than Barton (much to the annoyance of ATC) and the freefall display team that landed miles away on the motorway. :)

Shaggy Sheep Driver

17th Mar 2009, 22:05

I, too, was there when the mini-Mustang went in. The barrel roll has long been a big killer of display pilots.

The F 1/11 did its fast pass at Manchester instead of at the Woodford airshow. I did my RT exam in 1978 with the controller who was on 'Manchester Approach' that day. He told me he saw the primary return coming across the Pennines at several miles per 'paint', and soon realised it was headed for Ringway instead of Woodford. It was, of course, on the Woodford frequency so the Manchester controller picked up his phone to advise Woodford of the situation. As he did so, he heard the roar of its low pass past his tower!

It missed an approaching Vanguard east of Stockport, and a Viscount climbing out over Knutsford, did a big 'U' turn, and went back east, home and probably unaware of his mistake (until he landed at base!).

The USAF could often not find Barton - the RAF always did. Some US display aircraft went fuel critical trying to find us, so never got to the show, and one F 1/11 did one fast pass, turned left, and lost the field. He never found it again before he had to go home due fuel critcality!

gingernut

29th Mar 2009, 08:10

My 'eld fella used to take me both to the airshows and the viewing park, (well actually it was the car park), when I was a nipper. Had my first flight ever in ? an islander when I was about 11 yrs.

It was a great moment many years later when I took him up in G-BOIL.:)

(Although he never quite got to grips with "go-arounds.")

rampratbillyboy

11th Apr 2009, 21:58

Ahh memories! Only just come across this thread but reading it brought back many memories of these shows. I have lots of photos in my collection of various participants, sometime over the next few days I will get them scanned and put on here if anyone is interested.
cheers
Gary

Shaggy Sheep Driver

11th Apr 2009, 22:28

Gary - please post 'em. I have few from that era and would love to see any you have!

chippysl

7th Jun 2009, 15:42

:ok:I remember one Manchester Airshow when the USAF had no F-16 display pilot in europe so they sent aformation of 3 F-16s to perform a number of flypasts.After taking 35 minutes to find Barton they flew past once then returned to Hahn. I also remember Paul Day in the BBMF spitfire, never knowing which direction he would appear from!!!

BladePilot

7th Jun 2009, 16:15

Anyone recall what year it was when they set the airfield alight during a spectacular ground attack display by a couple of WW2 warbirds? they used some big explosive charges to simulate cannon shells hitting the ground which immediately turned the parched grass into an inferno!

Shaggy Sheep Driver

7th Jun 2009, 17:39

I do remember they got 'Blaster' Bates to do the explosives for the 'ground attack' runs. He buried the explosives and placed bags of flour over them to give a 'smoke' effect.. "with some wholemeal flour for them as likes a bit o' roughage"!

michael_mcr

6th Mar 2010, 08:56

Been away for a while and just seen this thread. I used to attend some of the airshows each year (as a spectator, i hasten to add - am not a pilot !!) and always went to Barton and Woodford as i lived in Altrincham so could get there easily.

I remember the Air 2000 fly-past. Lovely bright orange and white aircraft.

I *seem* to remember the commentator saying that the pilot was the chief training officer / chief pilot or similar for Air 2000 and mentioned him by name as a friend who had strong links with Barton / Lancs Aero club.

Other memories are the Harrier touch and go (well , light bounce would be more correct !!) one year which the commentator said would be logged as a Harrier landing !! - threw choking dust everywhere....

Do seem to vaguely remember a VERY fast F-111 flypast which dissapeared off as a speck in the distance.

Happy Days !!

Proplinerman

26th Dec 2010, 17:01

Not sure if this is the same show etc, but I have a photo of an Airtours 757 displaying at the 2000 (3-6-00) Woodford air show:

ScanImage8 1024 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://tinyurl.com/335hzjm)

Shaggy Sheep Driver

26th Dec 2010, 21:19

Thanks PLM. Barton (Manchester) airshow was not the same airshow as Woodford - we had both for many years, now we have none!

Eric Roscoe

22nd Jul 2012, 01:09

By coincidence I visited this thread on Barton accidents. In the 1950's in my early teens I used to frequently go on my bicycle to Barton and then continue on to the very active Burtonwood.

On one occasion I went to an airshow at Barton on both the Saturday and Sunday.

If my recall is correct an Autocrat wrapped its wings around a tree on the Friday.

On the Saturday I was on the far boundary of the airfield (relative to the control tower) and watched a Turbulent crash within 50 meters from me. I was first on the scene to a pilot with serious injuries.

On the Sunday a Prentice attempted a roll, dived into the airfield vertically and caught fire. The pilot was killed instantly.

Proplinerman

23rd Jul 2012, 11:25

New post yesterday has prompted me to upload to Flickr all of my photos taken at the 1975 and 1994 shows.

Here are the 1975 photos: Pingouin G-ATBG (but see below), Cessna G-BCUY, Stampe G-AYIJ and Islander G-AXXH:

Barton Air Show, 13th July 1975 - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/sets/72157630710001296/)

1994: Air Atlantique DC-6B G-APSA, a RAF Sentry, a Miles Gemini G-AKKB, and Messenger G-AIEK/RG333, Army Air Corps Beaver, Skeeter, Wasp, Bell 47G5; and the Crunchie Stearman, N74522:

Barton Air Show, 22nd May 1994 - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/sets/72157630709545174/with/7628891042/)

Correction to above: I've just been advised that the Nord Pingouin is in fact a Nord Noralpha, G-ATHH.

Shaggy Sheep Driver

23rd Jul 2012, 20:46

Just remembering Tony Brown again... I flew our Chippy into the Southport Air Show (landing on the beach) a couple of years ago. I was delighted, when calling in on the airshow frequency, to hear Tony's unmistakable voice. He was as cool and professional as ever, co-ordinating my join and landing on the beach with a low fly-by of a pair of fast jets.. "Golf sierra lima, can you please confirm you will NOT be going around from this approach?". No problem with that of course; the beach is very long (even if the marked runways weren't).

Strangely I was recently reading Cedric Flood's autobiography (a Liverpool-born pilot who flew for Cambrian and later BA at MAN on the S1-11). He, too flew into that show in his home-built, and mentions in his book how delighted he was to hear Tony's voice again after many years.

famhistsearcher

12th Apr 2013, 16:09

Hi, I've registered with this website in the hope of adding to my knowledge of the event that killed my grandfather's nephew, a commercial pilot Leo Nichols, and his engine fitter co-pilot. They were flying a Luton Major after an air show at Barton on 31 May 1981. From the crash investigation report it seems the plane wings folded mid-air and the two were instantly killed in a field at Culceth at 7pm. An eye witness was on a golf course at the time.
I am becoming intrigued as to how Leo (from Dundee) & his companion were able to gain a private flight in someone else's plane. There are comments mentioning an air instructor killed in an accident. Could that be Leo?
I was rather perturbed to read of the multiple accidents from this airfield but do these details prompt the memory of anyone? Awaiting with trepidation, ...

Shaggy Sheep Driver

13th Apr 2013, 11:49

Leo was one of my instructors at LAC Barton when I did my PPL July 1978 to early 1979. I was at that air show and waved to Leo who waved back as we drove out of the airfield after the show. An hour later he was dead.

The Luton Major was owned by a couple of Barton pilots, including the guy (can't remember his name) who was killed with Leo in the accident and I knew him and the other owner (I always remember it had painted on it lovely script "Built Upleaden Pig farm" and the date).

I remember Leo had left instructing by then and was working for Loganair in Scotland. He had come back south for the airshow. He and the part-owner of the Luton went flying after the show had finished and according to the AAIB had overstressed the aeroplane in aerobatics (the Luton was non-aerobatic). I remember the report saying the wing structure that failed was well up to design strength.

That accident lead to LAC banning flying after any future air shows as it was feared pilots might be inspired to try to copy the display pilots they'd seen at the show.

I remember Leo as very laid back. He was invariably late for my lessons, but one thing he didn't like was my propensity for a steepish cross wind to downwind turn in the circuit. I'd hold attitude as taught after the crosswind climb to circuit height, get the speed up from climb speed to 90knts, trim for level flight, look out, then 'bank and yank' the poor old C150 round a 60 degree turn (works much better in the Chipmunk, I have to say!).

"One day you'll just go spiralling into the ground doing that" he'd say. Ironic, I suppose. It was quite a shock to all at Barton when those two likeable people died so tragically that summer evening. I still think of them if I'm in the Culcheth area, as I was only a couple of weeks ago. I can point today at the place they went in (between the east Lancs Road and Culcheth).

Sir George Cayley

14th Apr 2013, 20:52

Alan Rae was the part owner killed in the accident.

SGC

Shaggy Sheep Driver

15th Apr 2013, 09:36

That's the chap. Quiet guy and very likeable.

Michelangeloman

16th Apr 2013, 17:40

I was an instructor at Barton 1980/81 (tall guy from dahn south) and was an active helper at that airshow. I remember meeting Tony Brown and Paul Eyte at that show and when subsequently joining Air 2000 took Tony on the jump seat on several occasions. Bob Screen who did the low flypast was the Chief Pilot. It was the only time I had been part of the preparations for an Airshow and it was an exciting and eagerly awaited experience by everyone. I remember me and my then girlfriend ( nowadays my wife ) taking Leo's girlfriend for medical treatment as she took the accident very badly. I remember Don Graham being very angry at the deaths of Alan and Leo and put the ban into effect pretty much immediately.

Shaggy Sheep Driver

16th Apr 2013, 19:08

Ah! Don Graham. Now there was a character!

Michelangeloman

17th Apr 2013, 16:35

I was on a ground school course with Jet2 in Leeds a couple of years ago and bumped into him in the caff. Still the same old Don. We spent a very happy hour remembering when. There were always mutterings about funds disappearing but I guess after paying for some seriously class acts and a new C152 or three they would have to have taken some serious money on the day. I remember it was only about a month after the show that the race was on again to book the following years displays before they were booked up. For me, very happy and interesting times.

famhistsearcher

19th Apr 2013, 10:21

Thank you ShaggySheepdriver, Sir George Cayley and Michaelangeloman for these quick responses and nice things about the characters of the two men.

ShaggySheepDriver: This is a wonderful memory. Thank you for sharing. Your account backs up my gran's opinion that Leo was 'showing off'. I see the irony in his instructions! I also see the enthusiasm of a young man getting to 'play' in a unique plane. The thought that someone can point out where it happened is so magnetic. I have toyed with the idea of visiting the area but until Who Do You Think You Are allow me access to excessive funds & resources this may have to wait.

Sir George: The news reports give the name Allan Rae,a diesel fitter from Westhoughton, Lancs. Your info that he was part owner explains the CAA accident report that, without names, seemed to contradict that Leo was the pilot at the time.

Michaelangeloman: A girlfriend? She must have been traumatised. Do you remember any more about her? Leo still had his parents' address in Dundee.

So many questions! For the first time in doing family history research & as a trained historian I have become emotional at this tragedy recalled by eye witnesses. Thank you so much for adding your memories of what must have been a terrible end to a lovely day out. I do feel guilty that my relative caused the death of another young man.

Shaggy Sheep Driver

19th Apr 2013, 17:15

We don't know who was flying the aeroplane at the time of the accident (in common with most light aeroplanes, both seats had a full set of flying controls), so either one could have performed the fatal manouvre.

Michelangeloman

21st Apr 2013, 09:30

I am afraid I can't tell you any more about the girlfriend as I didn't know her personally. My wife had got to know her earlier in the day for the first time.
We waited with her in the tower until it was confirmed they had died-I think Malcolm Dobson broke the sad news - then we took her to a hospital in Salford where she was given a sedative. We then waited for about 4 hrs with her until her parents were able to drive up from down South to collect her. Unfortunately we did not stay in touch. In my previous life I too was in the auto trade so Alan and I became friends through a common thread. I took Leo's place when he left to go to Loganair so we didn't meet. Sorry I can not be more help.

Above The Clouds

21st Apr 2013, 20:12

I think it was 1989 and I followed an F16 from the south side apron at Manchester to holding point C, as he approached the hold he called ready for departure and Tony Brown gave him his clearance.

"Packer 1 after takeoff you are cleared to Barton with a right turn out SVFR not above 1500' QNH ---- squawk ---- contact radar ------- etc etc etc.

Reply "packer 1 roger"

Tony tried 3 times to get a full read back to no avail other than "paker 1 roger" in the end he gave up and cleared him for takeoff.

F16 who was lined up rwy 24 abeam holding point C held it on the brakes applied full burner rotated after approx 1000 meters into a vertical climb pulled over the top back up the centre line of rwy 06 abeam holding point C did a 450 degree roll to the right then pulled hard left to Barton, must have set off every noise monitor around the airport :E

Tony asked "packer 1 confirm your altitude" he replied 1500' visual with Barton :cool: never heard another transmission, great times.

Shaggy Sheep Driver

22nd Apr 2013, 19:11

Thanks for that ATC; lovely story! Great times indeed. The Vulcan pilot told us this a while back, about his last visit to the Barton Airshow:

We were based at MAN for the weekend of the Barton Airshow, arriving Saturday after the display, leaving for base on Sunday morning. MAN ATC had sent us a tome of bumf weighing a ton which boiled down to 'don't make lots of noise and frighten our neighbours'. So I finished the display at 2,000' overhead Barton, closed the throttles, and turned towards a right base for 24. Cleared to land I squeaked it onto the runway still not having touched the power, vacated, and parked. There was a message to go see ATC.

"Why did you do that?"

"Because of this this great pile of 'keep it bleedin quiet' bumf you sent me".

"Oh, we didn't mean THAT! Tomorrow morning when you depart, could you make it a bit more exciting?"

"OK".

The crew were ferried back to Barton in a 172 and I met them at the post-display bash in the clubhouse. "Be at MAN tomorrow morning at 10:00 and you'll see an interesting departure". So next morning no.1 daughter (who was very little at the time) and me drove down to the old brickworks site (Now under the new runway) to watch. The Vulcan only had a 360 channel radio so had to use 119.4 (the then Approach frequency) for all transmissions. We watched her start up and taxi off the apron, then disappear behind Manchester's 'hump' on her way to the 24 hold.

Lined up and cleared for take off, a great pall of smoke arose from beyond the hump, followed a couple of seconds later by a mighty increasing whine of 4 Olympi winding rapidly up to full chat. Just as the that distinctive Vulcan primeval 'howl' reached our ears, she appeared over the hump with a mighty plume of black smoke billowing behind her thick wing.

Belting towards us she pitched up like some sort of giant surreal bat to about 45 degrees, lifted off, and climbed, gear coming up and pitching up further to about 60 degrees, the ground beginning to shake as she approached. By the time she got level with us she was about 1500 feet up and almost stopped, but the ground and everything around was literally pulsating to the mighty roar out of the tailpipes. We didn't hear it..... we felt it. She performed a graceful wingover to the left (what a ludicrous sight; a massive, roaring, slab of aluminium as big as a tennis court, pouring smoke, blattering us with sound and pressure waves, slowly rotating 1500 feet up in the sky). She dived a little out of the manoeuvre rolling wings level, flew off in the direction of the hills, and slowly the decibel count fell to levels where we could hear, rather than feel, that incredible thrust.

So, to continue the Vulcan captain's story...

When we got back to base there was a message to phone MAN ATC.

"Hello, Vulcan captain here"

"Bluddy 'ell.... We didn't mean THAT either!"

:E
.

famhistsearcher

23rd Apr 2013, 22:40

Thank you. Your memory is of help. Regards.

spargazer

24th May 2013, 18:10

I can add to that lot, a stearman that spun into the nearby Cemetry and a C152 from Yorkshire that stalled in front of the crowd line, proving how save and slow an aircraft can be according to a man on the tannoy, and that Tomahawk that recently crashed and is the subject of a £1m lawsuit. I can remember the Auster (1959) being carried by aloft by several people, Barton has indeed had its far share of tragedies.

Shaggy Sheep Driver

24th May 2013, 18:44

I can add to that lot, a stearman that spun into the nearby Cemetry

When was that? Must have been before my time at Barton (1978 onwards).

Tomahawk that recently crashed and is the subject of a £1m lawsuit.

Who is sueing whom?

I can remember the Auster (1959) being carried by aloft by several people, Barton has indeed had its far share of tragedies.

Carried aloft by several people? What actually happened?

Don't forget the fatal Rallye banner towing pick up tragedy. Or the double-fatality spin in by a visiting aircraft turning left base for 09. Or the other double fatality Rallye that took off on 2.0 very early one morning before the airport opened, and crashed on the banks of the Ship Canal. And of course the Midget Mustang that barrel-rolled into the ground at one of the airshows.

No dooubt there are more, but those are the ones I can think of that have happened since 1978. Not to mention ones where an aircraft on a local flight crashed away from the field, such as the Tripacer that took a Barton pilot, his girlfiend, and her mother to thier deaths when it crashed into Winter Hill in dodgy wx. Or the Baby Great Lakes that fatally spun in near Chorley about 1980.

Historian

10th Feb 2015, 14:31

I was the lone figure seen in cine film clips shown near the copse of trees to the edge of the flight line, nearly got hit by the crash of the replica midget Mustang. I was seeing the pilot,still alive, trying to pull out, as seen through my zoom lens SLR camera. The Police got my film and triangulated my images with others who were in the correct place. I was notand nearly got killedfor my straying! Seen on the news also at the time, I am the lone figure seen there. Nearly hit also by the clods of Earth raining down near me when he went in. My condolences to his family and I still disagree with the findings of the investigation which said he died before crashing. Also that he had not permission to fly this,which was rubbish! I did see a spurt of exhaust smokeand hear the engine hesitate whilst inverted and then felt the loss of power, momentarilyand lackof sufficient subsequent height made the crash inevitable. Even more remarkable was a real Mustang "Moose?" that threw very daring low level aerobatics in tribute right over the crashed aircraftand I felt he came too low on his final loop and feared a second crash! He was a superb pilotand I appreciated his silent salute to a fallen pilot. I was learning to fly at the time and this shook me.
Historian

Preon

17th Feb 2015, 17:31

A smart snappy looking red and white Spitfire Mk.14. flew into the show at one of the later events, I think the same event the German Navy F-104G duo 'Vikings' gave a very dynamic display.
I recognised the same Spitfire which had emigrated to the U.S. and lay dismantled in the fighter- rebuilders hangar at Chino, Ca the following year.
Thanks for some great memories Manchester, Barton team.

Shaggy Sheep Driver

17th Feb 2015, 18:16

I still disagree with the findings of the investigation which said he died before crashing.

Anyone got a reference for the report on this?

treadigraph

17th Feb 2015, 18:45

G-BEFU crash report (http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Sturgeonair%20Jurca%20MJ7%20replica%20P51D%20G-BEFU%2006-83.pdf)

Nothing in the report suggests he died before impact, just a sad, fairly typical low level aerobatic display accident.

Red & white Spit could have been Eddie Coventry's low back MkXVI TD248 or the high back XIV RN201.

Shaggy Sheep Driver

17th Feb 2015, 19:11

Thanks Treadders. I saw it roll into the ground. He just got the barrel roll wrong, like many others have.

The red and white Spit was Spencer Flack's G-FIRE. Here's a picture I took I'm quite proud of. G-FIRE starting up on the Barton apron by the fuel pumps; moments afterwards that smoke was blown away by the prop.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/GZK6NK/G-FIRE_zps0a361d87.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/GZK6NK/media/G-FIRE_zps0a361d87.jpg.html)

treadigraph

17th Feb 2015, 19:32

Ye Gods, how could I have forgotten Spencer's beautiful aeroplane? The other two I mentioned were, of course, silver and red.

G-FIRE is now N114BP at the Palm Springs Air Museum. Her RAF scheme is perhaps authentic, but the green and grey (blue?) she now sports look odd to me.

Nowt wrong with having a few warbirds in civvies! Last night I was looking at some pics of G-ALGT in her early days with Rolls Royce.

Proplinerman

17th Feb 2015, 20:01

And here's a photo I took of the aircraft at the 1986 Woodford air show:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/6014975886/in/photolist-

India Four Two

17th Feb 2015, 20:50

And here's G-FIRE at Palm Springs:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c309/india42/IMG_2695_zps2g66itz3.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c309/india42/IMG_2696_zpsqpzfkyhg.jpg

I was there on Christmas Eve and very surprised to see a Spitfire XIV in the museum. I didn't realize it was G-FIRE.

treaders,
You are right about the camouflage - it's definitely blue rather than grey and the green is the wrong shade as well. Also the fin flash doesn't match the roundel style.

BTW, it's a great museum. A must see if you are in the area.

philbky

18th Feb 2015, 00:11

Was at the Palm Springs Museum in April last year. Everything about the colours is wrong, including the high gloss. The owner wasn't around so I couldn't find out just why the aircraft is presented as it is.

India Four Two

18th Feb 2015, 01:17

After doing some further research, I have discovered that W2-P was the code for a Hong Kong Mk. 24.

A very bizarre choice of paint scheme made by the owner, but if you own a Spitfire, I suppose you can paint it any way you want to!

VictorGolf

18th Feb 2015, 14:48

Pity they didn't leave it in the red colour scheme. I think Spitfires take a single main colour very well. It brings out the lovely curvy shape (Ooh err vicar)

zetec2

18th Feb 2015, 19:36

Didn't Mike Searle (ex Ambrion - Leavesden)take it with him when he went Stateside some many years ago, I remember it when it lived at Kidlington mid 80,s and Mike used to come down & give it an airing, PH.

Above The Clouds

18th Feb 2015, 19:57

Why on earth do they use that high gloss finish :(

treadigraph

18th Feb 2015, 20:26

G-FIRE seems to have passed straight from Classic Air Displays (Spencer Flack?) to Bob Pond and the Palm Springs museum via The Fighter Collection/Stephen Grey who probably brokered the deal. If I remember aright, the Palm Springs collection also includes the first TFC Wildcat, and a P-47 which Bob Pond acquired from Doug Arnold via TFC.

'Tis a great collection, visited about 15 years ago, and also David Price's collection at Santa Monica.

Sorry, thread drift!

India Four Two

19th Feb 2015, 04:13

'Tis a great collectionYes! The highlights for me were seeing an F7F Tigercat, an F-105 (the biggest single-seater I've ever seen) and a tour through a B-17G.

philbky

19th Feb 2015, 09:16

I've visited many aviation museums around the world, including a large number in North America. Palm Springs is among the best. It benefits from being on an active airport and at weekends is alive with its own flying aircraft and and a host of well informed volunteers looking after the static machines.

Back to Barton. Can anyone remind me when the Beech Staggerwing was at Barton undergoing restoration. Sometime in the 1980s?

John Farley

19th Feb 2015, 10:35

This accident convinced me that when doing a low level barrel roll along the display axis one should start the roll towards the crowd. If a barrel roll goes wrong then it is in the second half. By that time your vector is away from the crowd which ensures any debris goes away from the crowd.

treadigraph

19th Feb 2015, 10:55

John, there is a video of a Harvard crash in the US which illustrates that point - the aeroplane is passing left to right along the crowd line and begins a slow roll (axial roll?) to the right with insufficient pitch up, ending with a desperate pull during the fourth quarter to avoid the ground; the wreckage went off at a tangent to the runway, fortunately away from the spectators. If he'd rolled left...

John Farley

19th Feb 2015, 14:38

Thanks Treaders

J

Fishaman

21st Feb 2015, 20:43

Saw the above pic on your link, mad as I would have been @ Woodford on that day working as a Bae apprentice, that aircraft now lies around 2 miles away from my current location and is a restaurant - DC6 diner -
Coventry Airport Restaurant | Aeroplane Restaurant Coventry | DC6 Diner (http://dc6diner.com/)

Small world eh

eileenm

29th Mar 2015, 08:24

Hi

I knew Leo and Alan very well for a couple of years before their deaths. A few months before I left England to go to Australia I received a call to say Leo and Alan had died in an accident. I wanted to contact Leo and Alan's family but unfortunately did not have their family details. Even after 30 years I have very fond memories of Leo and Alan, an era not forgotten. Leo's brother was in Australia for some time, and I never got to meet him. If his mother and brother are still around I would like to contact them. So if you could help I would be very grateful.
I found Alan the flat in Westhoughton and he helped me with my mechanics on my car so it was a double tragedy.

exmanman

30th Mar 2015, 13:30

Manchester Airshow - 5th July 2015 (http://manchesterairshow.co.uk/)

Excellent!

OPS QUEEN

19th Jun 2015, 09:46

Hi

There was no control stick in the rear seat at the time of this flight which is where Allan was sitting. The stick had been removed during the PFA flight in the afternoon and placed on the back shelf.

OPS QUEEN (Allan's widow)

OPS QUEEN

19th Jun 2015, 11:55

Hi Eileen

Thank you for your comments re Allan. I am his widow (we had only been married 3 weeks at the time of the crash).
I have found comments made above quite interesting as to what they thought happened compared to what actually happened.

Take care.

wub

19th Jun 2015, 14:53

Just found this thread. Here's a pic of G-FIRE at Yeovilton in the early 80s

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/wub_01/Gfire_zpsinf81amu.jpg

stundies

6th Jul 2015, 15:48

I can remember my Dad (Peter Underhill - Jodel G-BHEG and Piper Cub G-BGPD) having a lot to do with Barton as he used to be the commentator for the Airshows in the early eighties.

I also remeber as a young lad the fatalities there, the Mustang and i'm sure there was another one, I got Mosquito in my head, I was only just out of nappies back then lol

DundeeDave

8th Nov 2017, 12:43

One of my work colleagues sent me a link to this thread, as he thought you might be interested to see this poster I have.

My sister used to be a member at Barton and helped with the airshows a couple of times. I have loads of photos from there. Including one of a Jag buzzing the tower, with (I seem to remember) only about 2/3rds of the plane filling the whole of the picture (and I think I only had a 70-150mm lens on the camera at the time).

One time my sister had to pick up the Red Arrows commentator from Manchester Airport, where we got to go on the apron, and have a nosey around their aircraft and a couple of Jaguars (possibly the same weekend as the photo mentioned).