Are You A Flasher?

[Visual Procedures]

Cruising along through the middle of the night and an opposite direction aircraft 'flashes' his landing lights at you. Do you:

a) Flash back; or
b) Shake your head, mutter the word 'tool' under your breath and go back to reading the paper.

For those who answer 'a'.. My question.. WHY?

I am without exception someone who answers 'b'. Those who i've flown with who 'flash back' or are in fact 'intial flashers' could not give me any reason let alone a good reason as to why they flash, understating my use of the word 'tool'.

It seems to happen more in Asia than in Europe and Australia, with Africa somwhere in between. I can't recall ever seeing it in the US but I think most of my US flying has been through the day.. So, is it cultural? I mean it can't be an awareness thing, i've seen you coming on TCAS for the last 5 minutes. And if the flashers are 'saying hello', then why don't you 'say hello' during the day?

:confused:

[sec 3]

You have too much time on your hands Bud. Go buy a radio control helicopter or a dog !:)

[Muttley Crew]

Congratulations, VP, you hit the nail on the head; that is exactly what I also do with these flashing jobsworths: mutter, "Moron." And go back to the crossword. :ok: These numpties flying around India can't get their R/T anywhere near even approximating correct or standard, can't remember to use their callsign most of the time but they always manage to get the landing lights on when you fly past.

I'd never seen this somehow ever-so slightly 'gay' habit before I came here.

I now include it in my brief to the other guy, now that we're flush with half-trained DECs and FOs: "For the love of god, follow the SOPs and do NOT initiate any flashings!!"

By the way, nice grammar. Are you sure you're a pilot? Although you did let yourself down a little with the lower case "i" as in "i've." :(

[NZ X man]

In a time gone by, when there were NO TCAS and many regions were still HF radio contact, it was a way of just situation awareness, and in the middle of the night, Hay, how is it going. Probably still a hold over. I knew many crews that did it, and they were not particularly morons or tools. Guess times have changed, as it does. But I think you should get an RC helicopter in your spare time, and perhaps a dog to beat on the weekends.

Cheers:ok:

[White Knight]

And you think the TCAS is correctly calibrated on those old Russki heaps flying RVSM in Africa:ugh:

Silly thing to do though in 'working' airspace, but having had 3 different aeroplanes (one flying outbound along the localiser at my inbound level, one in restricted airspace where he wasn't supposed to be and the last bust his level in Brussels airspace and very nearly took us out) try to hit me over my career I'm inclined to let others know where I am....

[trimotor]

I don't do it -by the time you see someone's flash, you would be very unlikely to be able to change the flightpath enough to avoid him by much, if at all, so it's just an interuption.

But, the thing that anooys most is that the morons who do flash, seem to do so without any reasona s to why, when quizzed. Hmmm...doing things by rote...a long and unsuccessful method of operating in avaition!

[woodja51]

I think it also subjects the lights to unneccesary thermal shock ( -56 deg to a couple of hundred in a few seconds) and the more cycles the more incandescent bulbs burn out.. just like at home..

but that would be my practical take on why not to do it..

but agree with the dog/maid/wife to beat or R/C chopper to keep boys busy...
woodj

[411A]

Silly thing to do though in 'working' airspace, but having had 3 different aeroplanes (one flying outbound along the localiser at my inbound level, one in restricted airspace where he wasn't supposed to be and the last bust his level in Brussels airspace and very nearly took us out) try to hit me over my career I'm inclined to let others know where I am....

Clearly White Knight has the right idea.
Many new folks, who have never been in such situations are just plain mis-informed.
Out over Africa, I always figured that if another passing aeroplane did not return the passing flash, the crews were either asleep (likely) or both were staring at the FMS, wondering...'what the heck is it doing now' (more likely).:rolleyes:

[Muttley Crew]

No, some of us are still working away at the "quick" crossword while casting a lazy eye at the tool moving toward us with his high beams on, who has been visible on TCAS for the last little while.

Woodja although you espouse wife-beating (a noble pursuit) as an alternative to posting this topic, it is noted you have still seen fit to reply with your thoughts on the matter!

As for the thermal shock, have you ever noticed how those who remain cool and refuse to 'flash' you still appear to have the landing lights on, albeit much dimmer? I believe this is because most (modern) jets have the things on permanently on a low power setting but bright enough still to be seen.

I admit this won't help with the coconuts flying around Africa in claptraps. And I also admit they're probably more likely to be all over the place like a mad woman's poop, too. But still........... tools.


The answer has already been stated, and quite succinctly so: "It's learned fom other morons."

[Visual Procedures]

Its true.. Plenty of time on my hands today. With no traffic on the roads my return trip to Spinney's only took 30 mins instead of the usual 90. The wind is still at least 3 weeks away so no kiting, and UFC 91 still has 30 minutes of downloading to go. The RC helicopter is sitting broken in the top of my cupboard, the wife is at work, we've no need for a maid and my complete disdain for yappy dogs means there'll be no dog in this apartment. So, a discussion with my colleagues on the merits (or distinct lack there of), of 'flashing' seems to be in order. :}

White Knight pushes the awareness barrow when in 'questionable' airspace. I see that as a fair call. TCAS is not perfect, 126.9 is only helpful if it's tuned in and used correctly, and we've all had an experience that was closer than we would have liked. But is flashing the answer? To flash suggests that one has to have spotted the other first. And why only at night? Wouldn't a better idea, if awareness was really an issue, to fly around with all exterior lights illuminated when in 'questionable' airspace? (Not such a bad idea but I doubt the bean counters would like it :E)

Woodj, as far as I know, thermal shock is not an issue as the lights are on 'low' all the time anyhow. Have a closer look at for the glow coming from the lights of the next opposite direction 'non-flashing' aircraft that overflys you by 1000'.

And lastly, NZ x man, if it is a 'Hay, how is it going', then sweet. This is what I'm trying to find out. Unfortunately, the 'sheep' I questioned did not have such courteous intentions.

[.Aero]

Do you flash during sim flights?

Didn't think so.

Fly like you train gents!

[Fluke]

I flash sometimes on a dark night over Africa or water !
Same as I might say g'day to a stranger as i pass on a foot path.
I don't chat on 121.5 and I don't care if you don't flash back.

I guess the habit started years back when long distance truckers driving across the Nullabor Plains in Western Australia used to call up the media and report UFO's.

Perhaps we could train to do it !:ok:

[Austin Holed]

It's a "gidday" - sort of like the small wave when passing by an oncoming vehicle on a country road. Probably meant a lot more in the "old" days when there weren't so many aeroplanes in the sky and passing someone else was a novelty.

Of course now that I know how much it annoys people, I'm going to be a 500 knot, 30000 feet high Las Vegas ;)


(and I'll do it in the sim too - just to be consistent)

[White Knight]

.Aero - just how often are you in the cruise in the sim:rolleyes::rolleyes:, with traffic to boot..... Only time I see another 'plane in the sim is the TCAS just after take-off that EK training think is a new idea every phase:confused:

[The Tramp]

Well I must admit that I flash. An old habit to see and be seen. I used to do it on helicopters too, but that was more of a strobe effect due to the vibrations. The point Fluke made about chat on 121.5 is far more annoying, and far more serious than the occasional 'good evening' light beams.

Perhaps one day when the person that is asking for a position report relay on an emergency channel will be down there in a dinghy using his last fading transmission, to be then stepped on by some @rsehole.

P.S. I am not a badge holding member of the Guard Police, but I feel like joining sometimes.

[sleepypilot]

I like flashing. It's just a greeting.
And there's no mention of lights flashing in my manuals, nor in the checklists.
And I never trained for it in the sim.
But I'm not a perfect pilot....

[Visual Procedures]

So in summary..

We have some 'tools' and 'morons' flashing because they're drawn in like sheep. We have some Aussies and Kiwis living in happy happy land flashing away to say g'day to anyone who cares to look up from their newspaper, and we have some guys flying around on the edge of their seats, with one white knuckled finger hovering over the autopilot disconnect and the other on the landing lights poised to flash at any light, be it aircraft, satellite or shooting star, all in the name of 'awareness'..

But to all you flashers out there.. Why not flash in the day?

Do you not greet others unless under the cover of darkness?

Do ships not pass in the day as well?

Isn't an aircraft harder to see in the day than in the night?

:confused:

[sleepypilot]

visual procedures

must be some time since you last went on leave...

[Gazeem]

I bet these 'flashers' are the same type of people who say 'good morning' to sector controllers in blatant disregard to RT standards .......the cads!

[NoJoke]

I like it - what bounders. :ok: :}

[NZ X man]

VP
Your probably a geat pilot, respected by your peers, and smooth under pressure, but I follow "sleepypilot", perhaps a break is in store or a different route. I think there are much more pressing matters concerning the :modern day aviation scene", then " what gets under my skin. There are all different degrees of OK, and petty is not really on the list. I am not a tool, moron, or gay, and I flash my lights for the reasons stated, sorry about the act that you knew I was there, ie TCAS, or you were into your favorite pass the time reading material.

Merry CHristsmas, and Happy New Year, ( and perhaps a pay raise):ok:

[trimotor]

Then there's the losers/tossers/tools/morons who say 'on handover', or 'The Emirates/Speedbird/Cathay'...

...bet they 'flash' too..

I need a new hobby..

[Ahad Adump]

I do not flash eccept when a hostie sits on the FD.
I think she thinks i am cool when i do secret comms with my god-like buddies.

I also say "heavy" .....alot.

[Austin Holed]

"But to all you flashers out there.. Why not flash in the day?"

Because it's so much more romantic at night.

[kamaciwa]

can't believe I actually read the whole thread....

[TOGA!]

Some of you guys need to chill. Some guys really like this job and just want to enjoy the ride. Relax, believe it or not, there are some things you can do in a jet that are NOT written in the book. It is a simple greeting, maybe the guy is just trying to stay awake. I love you guys, who can't do a damn thing in a jet without it being written down. I wonder how you go take a piss. Go read Fate is the Hunter.

[Dixons Cider]

ok, I've walked the wife and given the dog a beating, so my turn...

The answer has already been stated, and quite succinctly so: "It's learned fom other morons."

..just the same as "charlie charlie", "(code) coming down", "the speedbird" etc etc.

can't believe I actually read the whole thread....

well said that man!

[MrMachfivepointfive]

Coming back to sec3's first reply... What's wrong with dogs and RC choppers?

[Chuck Y]

I flash all the lights & gun the motors alittle-that's particularly effective during the day cuz the contrails balloon out-sweet!

[Metro man]

On the A320 the landing light lower into the airflow, and whilst there is no speed limit on them there is a noticable rumble at high speed so I will use the wing lights instead.

If you've been sitting over the Bay of Bengal or the Indian Ocean for hours with no other aircraft in sight, it's the equivalent of a friendly wave between two truckers passing on a deserted highway. :)

[ACMS]

Gee some people here are being a bit anal.

So we flash each other? BIG BLOODY DEAL


And to those that say it shock heats/cools the Lts?
Rubbish, on the 777 the lights are ALWAYS on at low power to keep them warm, extends the life of the filament.

[LanFranc]

I wonder, who would you rather share the airspace with?:

a) The 'tool' or 'moron" who is looking outside and acknowledges the presence of other aircraft with a flash of his light, -OR-

b) The ever so cool 'professionals' who bury their heads in crosswords/newspapers and troll forums to point out obviously (to them) gay behavior?

For the record, I do not flash, I do not do crsswords and I'm not homophobic.

[msr001]

Well said LanFranc, Bravo :D:D:D

[Reeltime]

Why not over this Xmas season, make it a habit to flash the landing lights as a simple greeting.

If you're flying back of the clock, why not greet fellow aviators who are doing the same thing. Who knows..it may just catch on.

It would be nice to build up a camaraderie amongst those of us who are not lucky enough to be spending time with our families at this time of year.

A very merry Xmas to my fellow aviators! :ok:

[CDRW]

Holy Hell VP. If some one has to actually explain to you why they flash at night and not during the day then I feel really sad for you.

To help you I ask.

Whilst doing you crossword at night do you turn the storm light on or your overhead spot?

[CAYNINE]

Oh my God..... we are having a slow news week aren't we!!!

Those that think it's moronic are more than likely the same that look at you stupid in EGHQ when you say "gidday" ...the socially inert who are still looking for that dog with the RC controller?

[HeavyWrenchFlyer]

I don't know about flashing, but turning your landing lights on when you know you've been called out as traffic to report for another aircraft by ATC is smart to do, and is done often in US airspace, especially if the traffic is approaching from the opposite direction. You make life easier for him/her not having to keep staring into the pitch dark for you out there, you'd appreciate it if he did that for you. And please don't tell me you're under the illusion that you don't have to or need to establish visual contact with traffic which is called out for you by ATC because you're warm and fuzzy with the TCAS. Or that you're the tool type that utters "we have him on tcas" which doesn't mean a damn thing to anyone whatsoever!!

On the other hand if you just flash for no apparant reason, then I'd think you're lonely and need to get out more often! Or perhaps I'd make sure my 121.5 or 123.45 are turned up just in case you're trying to get me on radio for some reason, such as ask for conditions over the route we just flew over and you're headed for!!! But then again you're probably just trying to establish visual contact with tcas indicated traffic which is a good airmanship thing to do. Those who are stupid enough to rely 100% on the tcas have another thing coming to them and I don't want to be riding in the back when it catches up with them. I did mx for 12 years and you're an idiot if you bet your life on tcas with the dome lights on and head down into the crossword puzzle for too long at a time! Those things fail just as often as any other system on your aircraft, except that there's usually no indication of fault other than a pilot report saying it's giving false traffic info... and that's never from the tool who relies on that thing 100% with the dome light on doing crossword puzzle.

If you're they type who has an absolute need to turn on the dome lights at night destroying yours and your crewmember's night vision which can take as much as 30 minutes for some to gain so you're sure not to see sh!t out there for more than just a few minutes even if you have superman eyes... you're a f'ing tool for sure. It's usually the crossword puzzle doing type that fits that category with the dome light thing.

[Guava Tree]

There are those who say that an occasional bit of flashing in this way does train the eyes and brain to recognise navigation lights at various distances.
Others maintain that it is entirely unnecessary to indulge in this old fashioned pursuit of looking out with comprehension, because modern airliners are kept entirely safe by air traffic control and TCAS.
There is another pprune thread which discusses the provision of a pilot rest area very far from the cockpit. If the “no need to look out” school of thought will gain ascendency then this is one step nearer to moving the pilot workstation to a position adjacent to the crew rest area in the cheaper rent area down the back. At least the pilots will still be on board the aircraft.

[LambOfGod]

How 'bout GA flying at night. I sappose it's kinda like saying "can you see me?"
And you'd have time to alter your heading in a single engine...

Would you still classify this pilot as a tool? Just a bit of fun...

[EGGW]

This thread has run its course i am sure you will agree, or is it agree to disagree!

EGGW