M****R

[nohumbug]

Pilots at M****r were yesterday, forced to take all their leave. If they had none accrued then they were forced to take leave without pay.:sad::sad:

Not sure on numbers.


Full of it am i ?

[apache]

I do believe that you said "20 pilots to be laid off tomorrow!"

not exactly the same... but pretty close.

either way, a terrible thing to happen at this time of year, or any time for that matter.

[neville_nobody]

How does an operator force you to take leave??

[Yusef Danet]

"How does an operator force you to take leave?? "

quite simply, if so empowered by the employee's workplace agreement/ AWA/ individual contract/award the employer says you, you and you... don't come back for 3 weeks, and then you three sit on the beach when they get back.

It's called reducing leave liability and makes a ledger look better, particularly if there is a quiet patch.

[Keg]

How does an operator force you to take leave??

I'm not sure of the specifics but if you ask any QF driver who was on the classic or the A330 over the last three or so years they'll tell you! :( They were all assigned out standing annual leave (a couple of weeks a roster) and even long service leave when the A330s were gifted across to Jetstar. I won't comment on the issue that Jetstar at the time were desperately short of qualified A330 drivers with their guys flying max hours. :ugh:

[Mach E Avelli]

Being forced to take paid leave in tough times is a fair enough call as it gets a debt off the company's books. It's better to have had the paid leave than to have been stiffed for it when the company folds.
However, forcing employees to take unpaid leave without actually paying out redundancy is what the Yanks would describe as furlough. This should have the effect of releasing the affected employees from any training bonds and obviously allows them to work elsewhere, including for the opposition. Forced, unpaid leave can be a gift, when looked at in that light.

[Zoomy]

With all due respect, Yes you are!

[Zhaadum]

What is wrong with people? Why can't you say M****r ? without the blanks? PC gone mad.

I will take a guess......MAC AIR!

[Dog One]

Funny isn't, companies ask pilots to defer leave because they have insufficient crews to cover their operations, then when things quieten down, they force you to go on leave when you don't want to.

[flyinggit]

I ask this because I simply don't know but what's the legal implications if an employee refuses to take leave? I would have thought unless it's written as allowable in a work place agreement then it would be construded as illegal.


Flyinggit

[Mach E Avelli]

Zaadum, the M****r is a bit of a piss-take from some time back when their management threatened Pprune with legal action because of some negative comment which named them. So, to continue the negative comment, contributors started the thin concealment. Perhaps we should have codes for all operators, so we can really get stuck into those that deserve it.

[dogfish747]

Its all very true from what I hear. No $ to pay bills, 1 A/C parked at YCNY due bird in motor, two motors burnt out from O'temp in icing. Debts with refuelers/ caterers/ ground handling / Sim providers / maintenance all outstanding.
Too many crew, too few A/C, all staff told to expect redundancies. New A/C orders on hold. Seems like the world financial melt down has taken a strong hold in Nth Qld good and proper! However have heard of mergers in the wind also?
SAW? REX? Could this be real?
Hope they can resolve the issues and no one loses a job! :sad:

[who_cares]

two motors burnt out from O'temp in icing.

Guess these things happen with inexperienced crews

[Zoomy]

Who cares,

1. "Two motors burnt out" : Get your facts straight : overtemp for a matter of seconds causes an inspection. Cheaper to replace the ENGINE with the spare and check it out/rebuild out of the aircraft.

2. Most of the ****** guys and girls are flying with the main airlines now and all of the crew are experienced and hold the required regulatory requirements for their positions.

3. Because a QF flight lands long and runs off the runway, doesn't make QF crews inexperienced.

4. Theres a subject called human factors, I suggest you study it.

5. I hope you don't ever F^%K up, because judging by your reponse we will all crucify you and send you off to the funny farm. But then, who cares about GA Pilots.

[who_cares]

I worked for the company for 5yrs and am I of those ppl now working for another company.
They lost alot of their experience base over the last 2 yrs or so.

[TBM-Legend]

....many businesses and airlines/plants/defence etc 'roster' leave and use the slow time in the business cycle to use up leave. pilots with 6 wks leave builds up real quick when not taken - so whatz the surprise here.../?

anyway i figure that "PPRune Airlines" owned and operated by the expert members here won't suffer any of the issues that befall QF/DJ/ and all the others...:rolleyes:

sold!!!!:mad: shhhhhhhhhh we have to kill u for talking about this..

bit like QF & BA merger....who leaked that??? but mergers are all the go..

[powersfasher]

So anybody out there close to the source able to say what were the events leading up to the over temping the engine(s) on the SAAB in icing conditions?

If my memory serves me, the SAAB is certified to fly in known icing, so what went wrong???

[RUMBEAR]

I think there is a difference between "certified for flight in know icing conditions" and sustained flight in moderate to severe icing.

[TBM-Legend]

on descent into BNE and were maintained at a level by ATC for some reason. got into heavy icing and got slow!!!!!. put on the coal etc etc...seems like somone should have been monitoring things a bit better - remember a Kendalls/REX Saab went somewhat over near Melbourne some time ago - slow in ice,,,,,:O

[Jabawocky]

Hey Mods

A few posts missing here.......and while they were not about annual leave, neither are the ones about icing and o/temp engines.

The post about fuel was not really a rumour.....it was from "a horses mouth", and that same horse happens to be a well known ppruner, and here is the edited contents of his PM

fuel
jaba,
true, no credit.
###.


And yes he is the refueller.......and no he is not from Townsville ;)

If you really think this is not newsworthy, delete this post too..... at least then I will understand why.

J:ok:

[flyinggit]

Jabawocky I notice a few posts go missing from various threads & I only log on some times to see them then go bush. I guess the Mods are there to protect, not sure what though!

Not being too far up the 'pilot tree' as yet (green) I read a lot of posts that are down right nasty, is it just aviation or am I too nice/nieve to not see what some are trying to get across here & in other threads?



Flyinggit.

[Max Talk]

minger. you are closest to the truth. Much of the rumour mill is 99% bulls***t. No one; repeat, no one has been FORCED to take unpaid leave. That may have been an option, but is not mandatory. Because of the general shortage of pilots in the past year or so, leave has been hard to get. Now there is a large backlog owing, things are slowing down, so why not take it where you can to help out.

[Sqwark2000]

Is D Webb still involved at ******?

[TBM-Legend]

a friend owns a largish business in another industry and leave is applied to nearly everyone at Xmas/New Year.
per MT's comment nothing suspicious about a company trying to get rid of leave liabilities when possible. HAPPY HOLIDAYS I SAY>>>

re FBbrothers...heard that Oz Minerals @ Century could be going the other way due to massive losses there and curtailment of activity. I guess this is the market at work. who says anything is forever!

[Jabawocky]

flyinggitYou are quite right and some times the posts are a bit too risky (guilty at times ) but when I said I heard a rumour..... what I should have said was I heard from a very reliable source.Maybe the Mod concerned could not see that it was not a nasty post but one where some fact may have been involved for a change. Tough job for them!J

[11percent]

"Also heard a big mining client just went walkies and is going to join the Fokker Family."

Yep. Alliance are on the prowl and with one F50 in Townsville, will not be long until we see more..

[TBM-Legend]

could be the Century F100 becomes half itself with big cutbacks at mine...:ooh:

[yowie]

TBM , 11%,
Now there's another rumour......:cool: I heard Unity up for sale, time to get out:yuk: good luck:{

[BPA]

Alliance has pretty much been for sale from day one. The major owner has always said everything is for sale for the right price. They have also told the staff a few times that if things go bad they will become a leasing company.

[Clipster]

TBM-legend. mate you are a tosser. i have been flying planes a while now and your comment stinks of someone who reckons he doesn't make mistakes. just remember that real people are involved out there and your silly comments on pprune aren't helping.

the p in pprune stands for professional champ. :suspect:

[Pilotette]

Lester and 11%..That mining contract you talk of is true..one F50 has been moved from YPAD already to be based at YCNS to service this client.

[beaver_rotate]

The sackings have begun!!! :(

Several 'meetings' with CP booked in this week for crew that have any blotch on their record. Swiftly shown the door apparently. Cheaper than sacking them I suppose, oh and by the way you still owe us $15k!! Nice money making move smackair.

Sad times, get out while you can guys...

[Mach E Avelli]

If the 15k you mention is for a training bond, and they sack you, make you redundant or even furlough you (i.e. send you on leave without pay) they have NO rights to recover the bond.
Bonds are only there for when YOU do the runner and they have to train a replacement.
And if they don't pay you every last cent of leave earned, plus whatever the notice period is (one month, or often in aviation three months) this can be recovered through the courts.
Really the only way they can get out owing YOU money is to go bankrupt. And if they trade while insolvent, the directors are in deep poo.

[powersfasher]

Are you sure about this BR?

Pilot redundancies ?

That’s a big call.

Can anyone else confirm this?

I know they are overburdened with flight attendants in Brisbane due to not getting the additional ATR. So potentially there could be a few lay offs in that department.

Regarding the bond and being made redundant. At M****R if you are made redundant then as far as the bond goes it is waivered and you go on your merry way to find another job. (Yes, I know, not as many merry jobs to choose from anymore).

Remember because they no longer need you then they are the ones breaking the bond, so they waiver any remaining costs.

This was well set out in the bond document I had. (Must see if I still have a copy somewhere). However there is a new EBA recently voted in and may have changed the bond(definitely don’t have a copy of that one).

As far as I know there were only two pilots that have been asked to move onto other jobs. Separate reasons for each and months apart, many months ago. Both cases NO training costs were required to be re-paid to the company.

So I can’t see management pursuing training costs if you go on the history of the last few cases.

So if you were made redundant (that’s a big unconfirmed if) then you would be smart to dig out the Current EBA and go over it very closely.

That is, unless you did something willfully negligent against company property, now that is a different matter.

Plenty of negligent decisions made in city office I can recall. (Loosing the BHP contract, unreal).

Anyone on the inside with accurate info regarding the present state of play?

[PropDuster]

Redundancies at MacDog not exactly news

****** streamlines operations and sheds staff | Townsville Bulletin News (http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2008/12/19/28911_news.html)

No pilots are affected.

All staff asked to take leave as previously mentioned.

F/As told to take leave or lay offs inevitable in that department
(a bit of over recruitment for TSV & BNE bases recently)

Line training continuing for new starts and upgrades so business as usual in flight ops

New Aircraft due in the new year (yeah i know heard that before too)

BR not sure where you get your info but would be good if you could stick to the facts.
The boys and girls at MacDog could live without this sort of speculation especially the 35 people in Townsville that won't be having such a good festive season.


Prop :ugh:

[megle2]

ABC radio news 8am today

Company Owner states that they may have to close the doors if the State Government does not give them seven million dollars in extra grant money.

State Government Minister responded that 3 mil maybe ok only.
Stated if that was not ok services could go to open tender.

[Capt Claret]

****** seeks $7m Govt lifeline - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/21/2470739.htm)


M@cAir seeks $7m Govt lifeline

Regional airline M@cAir says it may be forced to stop flying unless it gets financial help from the Queensland Government.

The company employs more than 220 people across the state.

M@cAir already gets a $4.7 million subsidy every year from the Government to provide air services to remote locations, including Thargomindah, Bedourie, Birdsville and Winton.

But M@cAir managing director Terry Byrt says more money is needed to clear longstanding debt and ensure the airline can continue trading.

"I have asked the State Government for an ex gratia payment of $7 million," he said.

"We've been there for the long haul up-to-date and we want to continue to be Queensland's regional airline."

Mr Bryt says the Government has offered an extra $3 million a year if minimum service levels are met and he is seeking a meeting with the Premier to ask for more funding.

"We cannot continue to lose money like we're losing on the contracts - there's no business that can go down the path continually losing money," he said.

"We certainly wouldn't be doing the Queensland contract very much longer if we don't get some real support from the Queensland Government."

In a letter to local councils, Mr Byrt says without any financial assistance the company would have no choice but to cease trading.

Transport Minister John Mickel says he does not think the Government is in a position to provide $7 million of extra assistance to M@cAir.

He says the company needs to improve its performance in remote areas and if it cannot contracts should be renegotiated.

"If the company is unable to accept these arrangements then what I genuinely believe is it be in the interests of Queenslanders as a whole that we go back to an open tender," Mr Mickel said.

"I think that is the best way - the best outcome for the community."

Bugga. :{

[FlyingChipmunk]

Guess who in Singapore is smacking his lips waiting to prowl?

Could be a convenient way to 'save face' and reopen their Brissy base on the cheap....:rolleyes:

[Zoomy]

A quick search on the ASIC website leads to a document entiltled application to cease trading. Have any of you MAir boys and girls been told anything yet?

[IAW]

Got a link Zoomy? Had a bit of a search but the doc eludes me :(

[bizzybody]

ASIC Free Company Name Search (http://www.search.asic.gov.au/cgi-bin/gns030c?acn=073_278_378&juris=9&hdtext=ACN&srchsrc=1)

[Zoomy]

Thanks Bizzy

[Curved Approach]

"Two motors burnt out" : Get your facts straight : overtemp for a matter of seconds causes an inspection. Cheaper to replace the ENGINE with the spare and check it out/rebuild out of the aircraft.

have a look in the latest flight safety.....

"TURBINE ENGINES
GE CT79B engine over-temperature. Ref 510007363
LH and RH engines both exceded ITT limits. LH engine 999 degrees C for 38 seconds. Investigation found some signs of heat stress on the No.1 stage nozzle. RH engine 979.5 degrees C for 12 seconds. Nil evidence of heat stress to No.1 stage nozzle. Over-temperature occured during icing conditions. Both engines removed for inspection."

[Casper]

The application was submitted by Air Partner Leasing No 2 Pty Ltd (Brisbane address) on 08 Jan 2009.

[dizzylizzy]

Atleast we know where our taxpayers money is being wasted. :ugh:

[Grogbog]

Qld Govt reaffirms commitment to remote air services - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/22/2471703.htm)

Not good for the folks at M*cair....:ugh:

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

ASIC (http://www.search.asic.gov.au/cgi-bin/gns030c?acn=073_278_378&juris=9&hdtext=ACN&srchsrc=1)

AOC (http://www.search.asic.gov.au/cgi-bin/gns030c?acn=073_278_378&juris=9&hdtext=ACN&srchsrc=1)

Sad day.

[powersfasher]

Wow!!! 38 Seconds with one overtemp light on and 12 seconds with both on. Yes those red lights on the top of engine instrument panel with the big words ENGINE OV TEMP next to them meaning you are operating at 962 +3 -2.

Now that is a lot of time to react and bring the power back to max continuous (940) is it not?

Wow !! look at the power plant indications, 999 degrees for 38 seconds(from the report) the markings only go to one thousand.



SAAB 340 ITT indicator (digital readout component blank).


Classic case of inexperienced captain on type (yes/no)
Classic case of low total time (yes/no)
Classic case of pilot shortage equals promote quick (yes/no)
Classic case of early promotion insufficient training (yes/no)
Classic case of poor aircraft knowledge (yes/no)
Classic case of poor aircraft handling (yes/no)
Classic case of poor CRM (yes/no)
Fantastic case study for expensive mistakes and above factors (yes/no)


Ok, now who out there, much closer to what actually happened scored yes to at least seven of the yes / no answers?

Sad thing is this handling error cost a lot of money and time to the company resources.
Cant help think it has in some way contributed towards ******s poor financial position at present.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

The SAAB engines are not relevant to it demise, if the Pilot stuffs up, it's an accident and is covered by insurance.

[hama]

Powersfasher you are a w@nker!!!

[OpsNormal]

Wow hama, that was an intelligent and well thought-out reply!:=

[puff]

If the QLD Gov puts these routes out to 'tender', unless ****** goes under and Rex picks up the pieces, who would actually have the aircraft and aircrew to pick up all these routes ?

[Curved Approach]

certainly not REX if you believe the Singaporean threats of redundancies and refusal to negotiate on the pilot EBA!! :ugh:

[KRUSTY 34]

That's right C/A. What does one believe. If REX does pick the eyes out of the Mackair carcass, then the threat of pilot redundancies should be eased. Mind you, it will also depend on what REX decide to do with the Mackair staff?

Either way, it's crafty maneuvering by LKH to keep his opponents off balance. That is unless of course there is a resergence of recruiting by the majors in the latter half of '09. Judgeing by what we are seeing in the mining industry, that may be a little further down the track than what many at first thought.:confused:

[powersfasher]

Does Skytrans have the ability(airframes & staff) to do the routes ?

It would be sad for the good staff still there to have to go out job hunting at the moment with not much on offer.

Lets hope a rescue package can come from somewhere.

[OpsNormal]

puff wrote:

If the QLD Gov puts these routes out to 'tender', unless ****** goes under and Rex picks up the pieces, who would actually have the aircraft and aircrew to pick up all these routes ?

My money would be on the pilot of the first Mckinlay Air Charter RPT run.... :oh: :D

[XRlent100]

What about Skyairworld and the EMB-145's? Do they have any spare capacity to pick up ****** routes?

The ****** pilots could find themselves getting around in a nice shiny jet. Could work out for the better.

[Skystar320]

Lol - second best post of the year Xrlent100

[Zoomy]

Ops normal, Do you think Westwing would have the infrustrucure to run the services at a profit? My bet is the Govt want to pay as little as posibble and couldn't really give a rats about the regional service. As long as an aircraft arrives and departs. I hope anyone who trys to pick up this contract really has a good look at the price they offer, for the sake of regional Qld.

[F111]

Skyairworld, I don't think so! Think about, if you can't make money on these routes in a 30 seater turboprop then there is now way you could make money in a 50 seat jet!

History has shown these routes in QLD can only just support a 19 seat aircraft. In the last 20 years these routes have been operated by Flight West, *********, M@cair and Eastland Air using J32's, Bandit's Metro's, Kingair's and Saab's. The QLD government does not pay enough to operate anything larger than a 19 seat aircraft, if they did Sunstate would be operating them.

[dizzylizzy]

now now its Qantaslink not Sunstate.

[Skystar320]

Sunstante.

[OpsNormal]

Zoomy wrote:
Ops normal, Do you think Westwing would have the infrustrucure to run the services at a profit? My bet is the Govt want to pay as little as posibble and couldn't really give a rats about the regional service. As long as an aircraft arrives and departs. I hope anyone who trys to pick up this contract really has a good look at the price they offer, for the sake of regional Qld.

Zoomy, I daresay that if PC put his mind to it, then it would happen. He started it from scratch once before didn't he?

Don't be fooled by the (outward) signs on simplicity of some of the Qld elected representatives. If they want something bad enough they'll turn into a rabbid dog until they get it. PC has a large base of support in those of whom I refer.

Regards,

OpsN.;)

[inandout]

Have heard that Sunstate is looking at some routes.
I hope thou ****** stay in business and all remain employed.

[Desert Duck]

Qld Govt don't really care that much about the regional routes.

Yes - they make a lot of fuss and say the right things - but there are very few ALP votes in Western Qld

[tail wheel]

XRlent100.

Don't tell the passengers from Quilpie, Windora, Birdsville, Boulia and Bedourie about your 50 seat RPT jet aircraft plan.

They may get a little excited!

All five or six of them each week!

:} :}

inandout

Why would Sunnies look at the M@cair routes? They don't have an aircraft capable of operating into most of the airstrips. Already they are restricted due to the -400's being unable to operate most of their existing western air routes. :confused:

[who_cares]

Cant see any other company running the government routes any better then what CC are doing.

Its easy to tender and promise first class service, but backing it up is another thing.

Just hope the goverment realise this.

[steelcraft]

What about airnorth. They have the aircraft and the ability and it may tie in nicley in a few years when things turn around with the ecomony with the mines

[PCFlyer]

What about GAM and all their new (old) Dorniers? :}





C'mon, don't look at me like that, it is a rumour network!

[SideSaddle]

I would guess QANTASLink would have the edge, but no one has mentioned Skytrans as a possible contender. They have Dash 8s and still have a few 404s.

My 2 cents.

[dizzylizzy]

what would QANTASLINK use to get into Mornington Island, Normanton ect? Just retired the 100's and 2x 200's left in on the Sunstate AOC.

[who_cares]

Sure

Skytrans maybe Airnorth, but still will have the same problems as with CC.

[Skystar320]

There are a few Dash 8-200's on the market, relative young age 8yrs low times / cycles that can be purchased....

[Torres]

"..what would QANTASLINK use to get into Mornington Island, Normanton ect?"

Mornington, Normanton, Doomagee and Burketown are not included in the Queensland Transport subsidised or protected air routes.

From memory, the Queensland protected air routes are as follows:

1. State Licensed, non subsidised:
Cairns - Weipa
Cairns - Horn Island
Brisbane - Roma - Charleville

2. State Licensed, subsidised:
Brisbane - Blackall - Barcaldine - Longreach - (Winton)
Brisbane - (Charleville) - Quilpie - Windorah - Birdsville - Bedourie - Boulia - Mt Isa
Townsville - Charters Towers - Julia Creek - Hughenden - Cloncurry

Townsville - Mt Isa is not restricted.

I forget the subsidy break up, but seem to recall the total subsidy to long haul bus services and scheduled RPT services amounts to approx $12.5 mill per annum.

Contrary to comment, Queensland Transport takes a great interest in these services and regularly consults with the communities.

There were between eight and twelve bidders for the last contract (can't remember the exact number), so there should be no lack of interest in the future if any restructure becomes necessary. I think APNG (Skytrans) were a bidder last time around. Longreach airstrip is currently being upgraded and that community is trying to attract jet aircraft. :ugh:

It is a contract requirement the services are operated with pressurised aircraft (thus voiding the Dornier 228).

[Desert Duck]

As I said - they make all the right sounds, but if it walks like a duck....

[Torres]

Yes, I did forget Thargo. It is not quite the end of the world, but you can see it from there! :E

The direct Townsville to Mt Isa is an open, unrestricted route. I think only the intermediate ports are subsidised.

The last B200 operator was YC (Flight West) in 1987 to 1989 when the air subsidy started at $1.25 mill in 1987 - they were appropriate for their time, but that time is now past. After 1989, the YC services were mostly operated by Embraer EMB120ER Brasilia aircraft. Prior to June 1987, TAA operated the services with three Jetstream aircraft.

I guess one day Sunnies will move out of the smaller Dash 8 -200 and -300 aircraft. When the current gas drilling boom dies out and the smaller Dash 8s are no longer operated, the subsidised air routes will again be in trouble.

If adequate subsidy and revenue were available, I'm inclined to think the Beech 1900D and/or Brasilia could be the most appropriate aircraft types for all the subsidised RPT air routes, possibly with a C208 "hub & spoke" feeder service at Longreach.

Acquiring aircraft and establishing an operating company to operate a four year contract is fraught with financial risk.

[Merlins Magic]

Several years ago when I worked at M****r, the company looked into, I think with the state gov, operating as Torres described a hub and spoke type route structure through Longreach. When it was put to the local councils and the people of Western Qld, the feedback was very negative. One of the many arguments I heard was that the RFDS bases responsible for there medical needs were based in Charleville and Isa and if they were to be sent to Hospital in either of those bases, it would be difficult to get home again. I think that is a lame excuse but that is what I was told.