Difficulities with Globespan

[El Grifo]

Not sure where to post this, but I will try here for starters.

An elderly family member, living in Scotland, was booked on a flight from EDI to ACE Sunday 14th.

Yesterday (Sunday 7th) she was told by her GP that her heavy cold and chest infection could prevent her from flying.

This information was relayed to us here in ACE, at which time we tried to change her booking by one week.

The Globespan number on the ticket was an "office hours only" number and the alternative number we were supplied was invalid from outside the UK.

I called the original number today (Monday 8th) and was given an alternative number only to be told that any changes had to be made 7 days before flying.

I explained that since the number on the eticket was office hours only and that the alternative number was unavailable from overseas, I had no way of contacting them on the weekend.

I was spun around a couple of totally illogical, un-smart and unhelpful youths, who were more offensive than anything, resulting in a blanket refusal to help.

I have trawled the net in order to locate a non-call centre number but have failed miserably.

My main objective is to get a date change of one week on the ticket.

Where the hell do I go from here ??

Cheers

[CornishFlyer]

Visit SAYNOTO0870.COM - Non-Geographical Alternative Telephone Numbers (http://www.saynoto0870.com) It's a site setup whereby you can find the geographical number behind premium rate phone numbers. Aswell as saving you money when you ring them, as it's geographical you should be able to do it when abroad. Also it lists loads of numbers that you may wish to try-hope you find it of use :ok:

[El Grifo]

Thanks for that Cornish.

Sadly all numbers lead back to the same call centre, whose manager is being totally intransigent.

It is my fault apparently that I could not reach the number issued on the answer machine yesterday, despite the fact that is a number unavailabe outside of the UK.

Now that they are open for business again and available, I am too late to make any changes, hence the old dear looses her Christmas trip.

Not really what expected in the circumstances.

[CornishFlyer]

Hmm. Maybe a letter of complaint then. Sorry the link was of no use :ugh:

[El Grifo]

No No, I am sure I can make use of the link in future. Thanks !

A letter of complaint was the suggestion, but it ain't going to get the old dear here for Christmas.

Re-booking is (was) an option, however we booked it ages ago and the price has increased by 200%

I am pretty sure that when looked at by a "non-call centre" person, a different decision would be made.

Thought about cancelling the credit card transaction out of spite, but am sure it would just create more difficulties.

[Capot]

No No, I am sure I can make use of the link in future

Eh? You're going to use them again?

Vote with your feet, and use the number to tell them why they've lost your business.

[El Grifo]

No Capot, you misunderstand me.

What I meant was that I would use the site for alternatives to premium prefix numbers, certainly not for Globespan.

I now have the address of their call centre in Edinburgh, whose manager XXXX was surprisingly unhelpful and unable to discuss anything in a rational way. Company rote was the order of the day.

I also have the address of their head office which is ringfenced as far as communication is concerned.

I have trawled the net, only to find that sensible and rational communication is a fairly well known raritiy when dealing with globespan.

If there are any sympathetic globespan people out there who might care to PM me, I would be grateful.

Cheers
El Grifo.

Mod edit - you have my sympathy, but real name use inappropriate here

[Rainboe]

How can you 'cancel a credit card transaction'?

All airlines terms and conditions are clearly listed. Are you grumbling they are holding you to them? If there's an 'all sales are final' clause, or clear booking change conditions and they hold you to them, what is the issue? You benefit from lower fares, they benefit from confirmed sales. That's how the system works- there is not a lot of leeway. I've booked loco and missed flights- once when I got locked out of my car. You forfeit the fare. And even with BA, you forfeit the fare!

[El Grifo]

Thanks Mod. I knew that, but I am pissed-off. I took liberties.


Rainboe.

The cancelling the transation is simply an administrative thing that causes the company a miniscule amount of grief, grief however.
Hence the reason why I discarded the plan.

The whole deal almost became academic earlier today, when the hospital called and advised that the condition of the 83 year old patient had deteriorated. They know us well, we originate from a small Scottish community.

They suggested that perhaps we start looking for flights back to Scotland.


Absurdly, the best option came up - - - - yes, you guessed, Globespan !!!

Incredibly, several hours later they called again to say that the patient had dined on scrambled eggs and ice cream and was asking for a copy of Womans Own, didn't know whether to laugh or cry. The power of a double IVF dose of anti-biotics !!!

Probably a good human interest story for the media.

Due to all of the drama, I intend to drag globespan through as much **** as I possibly can.

What a bunch of disfunctional bstards. :ok:


Which muckraking rag should I start with :}

[Skipness One Echo]

Alas Rainboe is correct but since your treatment sounds as if they were typically rude, ill mannered and unhelpful, then I suggest The Daily Record. They always like the human angle....

* we crossed posts and you beat me to it, let the rags know LOL

[El Grifo]

Ha ha ! Not busy right now, so the devil makes work for idle hands whatever.

Daily Record here I come.

An excellent Glesca opshin :}

[smith]

This 83 year old woman was getting IVF? Way to go, this must be a world record if it is succesful:D

Globespan are a loco, you got no chance of changing ticket. Can you imagine if it was ryanair and you actually found a number to contact them with a request like this, they'd still be on the floor laughing.

The only option you got now is via your travel insurance, there usually is a clause for cancelation due to medical advice, you still might have to pay an excess though.

Why not go direct to the web-site and the "manage my booking" link, you will be able to change it there with the addition of some fees. Me and the missus were flying GSM to Loret de Mar last year, on the morning of the flight the boy suffered a febrile convulsion and ended up in the hospital, got released with some calpol. Missed the flight as a result, globespan were not interested in flying us out the next day unless we paid a full fare, we cancelled in the end.

Didn't bother us as we are regular loco travellers and we know the rules.

Think you are farting against thunder with this one I'm afraid, don't think the daily ranger will be interested, bad service on loco's is old hat now journalistically and most of us have come to live with the terms and conditions, ie if you pay peanuts you'll get treated like a monkey!!!

[El Grifo]

Yeah fair comment smiffy :ok:

IVA acshully

Intravenous anti-biotics.


Mind you she is a game old bird. anything is possible with her :ok:


Still quite happy to smear some shyte on Globespan though.


Will try the "manage your booking" thing, but hold out no hope whatsoever.


Thanks all

El G.

[leisurelad]

Hello,

I understand where you are comming from with the problems you face but i also think you are being unfair to the airline.

You sound genuine to me but from the airlines point of view, they have heard this a hundred times and more. You would be suprised at how many people try it on. cry down the phone etc saying that their loved one is ill only to find that your colleague is speaking the other person on the booking who is supposedly ill and dying in hospital.I know it sounds sick and it is but this is probably the reason why Globespan is saying NO NO NO.

As an agent i deal with Globespan quite a few times and have no trouble with them in general but with any low cost carrier it is the same, no changes no refund or if you can change it then there is a huge fee to pay. Monarch/Easyjet/Ryanair/Globespan/Thomascook/Thomsonfly there are all the same so i think it is a case of bad luck whats happened and to seek advice from your insurance company if they will help.

Sorry to go on but the above is a very common situation.

Thanks

[El Grifo]

Bad PR to assume everyone is a liar.

Globespan require 7 days notice to change a flight.

The 83 year old lady in question was due to fly on Sunday the 14th, she was admitted to hospital on Sunday 7th

The telephone number supplied on the e-ticket was "working hours" only.

The alternative number supplied on the answer machine was only available to UK callers.

When I called on Monday 6th, I was told it was my fault for not calling them earlier.

The remainder of the conversation was exactly what you would expect form a company with a head of wood and a heart of steel.

The lady in question was in a serious state yesterday but is recovering slowly.

Her insurance does not cover this type of situation due to her advanced age.

If Globespan employed at least one person in their call-centre, with the mental capacity to fully understand a situation like this, instead of a bunch of automatons, then happier I would be.

Do not defend the indefensible

[leisurelad]

El Grifo,

I understand what you are saying, truly i do. I know that in the time of need you wanted help but as said earlier, unfortunately there are some sick people around that try this on all the time so you have to understand it from their point of view too and its sad to see that because of these sick people, the genuine ones don't get a look in when they need help.
I did have a few cases similar to yourselves last year and i think it was only down to the fact that i was horrified by what had happened and after having a few conversations i just amended the flights free of charge. Lucky for me, the airline i was with did care about its customers and we were in a position to be able to do that on the basis that we had something either faxed or a verbal confirmation from the hospital if they were prepared to do it. Like you say, it only took a little of my time to do it so no hardship.

just unfortunate that the locos are a complete NO NO NO when you need their help for genuine reasons.

I'm glad that she is recovering slowly and please don't think i am defending them as i personally believe that service does go a long long way and people will remember you for that. The locos now are just too big to care i think now and as such the service falls completely when it comes to these situations.

Thanks

[Rainboe]

Do not defend the indefensible

I'm sorry, but it is not indefensible. They set a time limit. What you are saying is you are going to try and make life difficult for them and get them adverse publicity because they won't change the terms of the contract that was made with the purchase of the ticket. I think you have to accept that they are acting within the terms of the agreement made with the purchase of the ticket and it is most unfair this forum is being used to give them adverse publicity. 7 days is the agreement. You cannot say that it is indefensible that they will not change the terms within 6 days. The fact that a weekend day is involved is neither here or there- it is included in the 7 day requirement, and that is it. The fact there is a sob story involved is irrelevant- people make up sob stories to suit themselves- even religious churchgoers would not hesitate to lie if it so suited them. Sometimes you just have to write off the contract, as I have done twice, and forfeit the fare. You can try and get back Browns taxes, but this involves a charge by the company that will probably make it uneconomic to do so. It's tough, but they all do it, and this is the loco model.

[Final 3 Greens]

El Grifo

The heart of the matter here is not about the moral obligation of a company, but about oblligations and entitlements of contract.

In my opinion, as a layman with 30 years of commercial experience involving contracts, it is unreasonable for a company to set a time limit for changes and then fail to give a customer reasonable access to contact the company to make a change within the time limit.

Implied terms and conditions springs to mind, in the sense that if a company says you can change within 7 days, then it implies that you should have the mechanism to change within 7 days and this can be as binding as a written clause.

If this really niggles you, you may wish to consider issuing small claims proceedings against Globespan in the Sheriff's Court, assuming that the contract jurisdiction is Scotland.

You would be claiming for damages and costs arising from the company's alleged breach of contract by failing to provide you with a mechanism to make a change within the 7 day period, so the cost of the unusable flights, the differential cost of replacement flights, telephone calls and correspondence.

Small claims in the sheriff court (http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/scotland/your_rights/legal_system_scotland/small_claims_in_the_sheriff_court_scotland.htm)

Of course there is no guarantee which way the court will find and you might be wise to invest in a telephone call with a suitably qualified lawyer before committing to the cost of the court process, which would include travelling to Scotland for a hearing, but if you are niggled enough, you may find this worthwhile.

[groundbum]

you know, el grifo whining from some sunny patio someplace in Spain really does make me sad. Okay, so he rolled some dice and they didn't come up the way they wanted. From this he goes to the newspaper, whines on a forum, is probably IMing 20 mates about his david and goliath battle with the mighty scottair airline etc etc.

We seem to have forgotten how to laugh at ourselves and say "oh well!". It's this kind of peurile tortuous holyish behaviour that makes me think it would be better if the human race just quickly sank into the sea without a trace and returned the world to the whales and furry animals. They just don't inflict this much angst on themselves!

And yes I work in customer services but not for an airline.

I'll do el grifo a deal. Get out the house, spend a few hours doing something really really nice for somebody else like digging a garden, replacing a car's oil filter, taking handicapped childen down the park, sorting an old ladies electricity arrears, whatever.

Then, come back, and see where this dispute lies in the big scheme of things. I'll bet you've got the money to rebook your gran for the next weeks flight.

G

[El Grifo]

In my opinion, as a layman with 30 years of commercial experience involving contracts, it is unreasonable for a company to set a time limit for changes and then fail to give a customer reasonable access to contact the company to make a change within the time limit.

Implied terms and conditions springs to mind, in the sense that if a company says you can change within 7 days, then it implies that you should have the mechanism to change within 7 days and this can be as binding as a written clause.


That, Final Three Greens, is the nub of the issue.

The last two posters and others, have failed completely to grasp the issue.

Either they did not read or cannot read, or are simply trying to stir things up.

There is nothing which I can add to what you have written above, it is crystal clear.

Thank you for that. That is precisely my position.

[groundbum]

and this quote,
==
Thank you for that. That is precisely my position.
==

exactly marks these whiners out. Out of 10 or opinions saying no chance they find the one person that agrees with them, and runs with that.

Don't forget you called the company and said that on their answermachine message there is a number you could have called, but you "missed" the number. Short of them teleporting an agent to your living room to sit iwth you and serve you and tea and toast and assist you with your query, what more do you expect these days?

I honestly think passengers still have a picture in their mind of the old Viscounts/707's battling their way around the empire, with lace on the airplanes dining tables and people sat conversing with each other, and glamorous boarding steps with champagne waiting and relatives dressed up especially waving over terminal balconies as people depart to far off foreign shores etc etc. And when they realise reality, they're upset!

Airbus got the name of their jets just right, air travel these days is BUS travel. Think what would happen on a bus and your expectations are about right. Don't like it, travel first class or rent a private jet! Your PA can book it for you on your platinum AMEX. Let her know whether the golf clubs travel with you or not.

G

[Scumbag O'Riley]

You can make a claim in an English court if the defendant is in Scotland, you just have to put some extra legal guff in the statement of particulars. You can blame the EU for that :)

I would tend to agree with F3G, the airline needs to give the consumer a decent chance to contact them within the seven days. If they don't the term is probably unfair. Also, the complete loss of the fare might be considered unreasonable, though given they would only have seven days to resell the seat probably not.

Airline terms and conditions are full of nonsense, a term is only legal if a court says it is, and the Unfair Terms in Contract Regulations will come into play. It could get complex as there are also international conventions but the defendent would need to demonstrate this and I don't really think they apply.

Taking a company to the small claims court is hassle and the court system is bogged down right now and their level of service is pretty poor. Globespan might have gone bust by the time the court gets to hear the case, they might defend it on principle just to annoy you, you might not win the case. Time off work and (given the possible complexities above) lawyers fees. If you want to do it on your own and haven't done a small claim before it's not rockt science but it will take you quite some to research how to do it properly get the procedures right. Lost time when you could be painting and decorating and keeping the wife happy.

Depends on how much you want the money back. You could always just spend the few quid to throw a claim in and see if they pay up. As consumer they would need to come to your nearest court, you wouldn't have to go to theirs.

Send them a short letter telling them to pay up within 14 days or it's a small claim. Might be worth a shot. Up to you.

[El Grifo]

Like I say, being 100% involved in the Travel Industry, things are a little slow right now, so I have time on my hands.

For better or worse, I was born, or had bred into me a great sense of justice and fairplay. Althought this has got me into some drawn out, sticky situations over the years, I have succeeded in 95% of the cases.

I will go for them, make no mistake.

I am grateful for the pointers.

Thanks guys :ok:

[groundbum]

== quote
For better or worse, I was born, or had bred into me a great sense of justice and fairplay. Althought this has got me into some drawn out, sticky situations over the years, I have succeeded in 95% of the cases.
====

and there goes the poster cloaking himself as a martyr and standing up for the common man and leading by example and only doing it for the little people etc etc.

I really don't think I could work in a call center where the aggrieved customers path from outraged to virtueness via a tabloid is soooo predictable. It kind of like those photo's in the local paper where somebody's bin doesn't emptied or little Johnny gets 1 day off school for spitting or the local GPs closed 2 minutes early on a Saturday. You know the photo, sad mum with sad face sat on the sofa surrounded by sad looking mites all vicitmised by whatever horrible horrible awful thing the council/whoever did to them

el grifo, have you stepped outside yet and taken a 10 minute walk around the block just to try and inject a smidgen of objectivity.

I would suspect the people at the globespan call center know exactly how tight cash is at their airlines, and have receieved instructions from on high to hold the line very very tightly to the T+Cs. To a big operation doing this will save them £1000's a day, that in better times would be refunded to the customer for goodwill purposes. It's no good building up goodwill if you go out of business due lack of cash. It would be funny if globespan settled with vouchers!

G

[Scumbag O'Riley]

Having done some separate simple research of my own (always a smart idea), and checked

flyglobespan.com | Contact Us (http://www.flyglobespan.com/contactus.asp)

and

flyglobespan.com | Manage Your Booking (http://www.flyglobespan.com/yourbooking.asp)

I'd probably say the original poster should go do the painting and decorating instead of issuing a small claim.

Dear groundbum.

If the bins don't get emptied and the GP closes early, both services for which I pay, you can be damned right I will get upset. Not sure what Johnny spitting has anything to do with it. What this is about is a company has to treat it's customers as the law requires i.e. if it seeks to impose terms and conditions on a contract they have to fair to be lawful. Nothing to do with anything else, agreeing to a term imposed by an airline before they will sell you a ticket by clicking a little box on a website means nothing.

(For example the term imposed on my link above that a complaint has to be received within 30 days is ridiculous and would be thrown out of court.. Also that it has to be received in English. Complete nonsense)

[groundbum]

quote
==
For example the term imposed on my link above that a complaint has to be received within 30 days is ridiculous and would be thrown out of court.. Also that it has to be received in English. Complete nonsense)
==

in fact it seems quite reasonable to me that Globespan or any other company set out the terms on which they'll do business. By choosing to use that company you've accepted their T+Cs.

If you don't like their T+Cs, book elsewhere. It's a free country and unlike council services we do have a choice. And in free enterprise if a company makes too much of a bad name for itself, either via onerous T+Cs, bad press, high prices, late planes, etc, then they'll lose market share. Then the bosses will hopefully notice and relax the rules a bit to buy back some market share, etc.

G

[Final 3 Greens]

Groundbum

If a company says "by ticking this box and accepting our terms and conditions, you waive your rights under the relevant law", do you think that this is binding?

[El Grifo]

Yeah Scumbag, been there done that unfortunately !

All roads lead to the call centre in Gardiners Crescent Edinburgh rather that the head office In West Mill Road.


The call centre is overseen by some intransigent, whom I described earlier and the Head Office is ringfenced as far as telephone numbers are concerned.

Being a e-booking airline, naturally there is no e-mail address :ugh:


Whilst I accept that the court option is akin to pissing into the wind, the bad publicity machine is moving along sweetly :ok:

Press interest is building.

Groundbum, just exactly what part of this do you not understand, this is precisely the situation, always was, still is :ugh:

In my opinion, as a layman with 30 years of commercial experience involving contracts, it is unreasonable for a company to set a time limit for changes and then fail to give a customer reasonable access to contact the company to make a change within the time limit.

Implied terms and conditions springs to mind, in the sense that if a company says you can change within 7 days, then it implies that you should have the mechanism to change within 7 days and this can be as binding as a written clause.

[TightSlot]

groundbum - I think we understand where you're coming from on this one - please try and make your case further without personalizing your dissent: at present you are in Jet Blast territory

[Dropline]

El Grifo

I hope she is recovering now and will be able to join you for Christmas as planned.

Before you start legal proceedings against globespan, have you considered the effect this might have on your elderly relative? She is probably already distressed that her illness has disrupted your plans and cost you money and the thought of a court case is surely only going to upset her further? Whatever the legal position may be, is it really worth putting her through that just to get one over on globespan?

I would suggest you rebook her ticket when she is well, then send a letter to globespan explaining the situation, and include a letter from the hospital to verify your story. They may well reconsider their decision and refund you some money as a goodwill gesture - call centre staff often do not have authority to change the rules, no matter what the situation is.

I appreciate how annoyed you must be, but some things in life are more important than money.

[El Grifo]

I appreciate your concern Dropline, the lady in question is indeed recovering in hospital. Whether she will be well enough to travel for Christmas is a moot point.

If she is in shape, then as you and others will have probably deduced, we will get her here at any cost. That is of over-riding importance.

As far as my actions maybe upsetting her, she hardly knows what day it is never mind anything else !

I have draughted a letter and sent it electronically to a colleague in Scotland who will then forward it to the Head office of Globespan.

Good point about the hospital letter, I can get that sent to my Scottish colleague directly for inclusion.


Cheers
El G.

[smith]

El Grigo,

I am neither for or against you on this one. The advent od loco airlines has allowed me to enjoy far more trips and vacations over the past few years than ordinarily would have been available to me.

If the airline state seven days advance is needed to change tickets and they also state opening hours of their office I can't see any grounds for complaint.

I once told American Airlines I had had my wallet stolen to get back from LAX on a cheap, no changes tocket two days early, they agreed on the provision I provided a police report of the incident to the check in assistant. This was 15 years ago though, I doubt if they would be so hospitable now.

Yes it would be good PR to give in to this elderly lady and give her a free change as I have made up a story before, however if by being rigid with their terms and conditions allows me and countless others to fly to the sun for under a hundred quid I am happy to go along with it.

[Glamgirl]

Sorry to stick my oar in here, but is your 83 -year old relative travelling on her own?

As you've stated, she's in hospital, barely knowing what day it is, and you're still planning on getting her put on a plane to come to yours for Christmas. If it was my relative in this situation, I'd either bring the family to her or go get her myself.

If she's travelling with someone else, I apologise for assuming things.

Gg

Ps. I've just done a flight with 20 elderly passengers who all needed wheel chair assistance. They'd been "dumped" at the airport and we had to take over. Don't get me wrong, I like looking after them (although I don't like the taking them to the toilet so much), but I think they deserve more respect.

[El Grifo]

If the airline state seven days advance is needed to change tickets and they also state opening hours of their office I can't see any grounds for complaint.


Fair comment smirth.


Fly in the ointment is, you only discover the opening hours limitation when you call up to legitimately change a booking within the prescribed period.

Glamgirl, problem is with your surmisation (if that is indeed a word) is that people are all different, they do not all come from the same mould.

My Mother in Law, Catherine Herkes, has knocked at deaths door several times.
She suffers from a condition called Addison’s disease, with Diabetes along for the ride.

She can go very quickly, in a 24-hour period, if un-supervised, from rude health to deaths door. The balance of her medication is very important.


The insurance companies know this, but it is apparently an acceptable risk. If the insurance company accepts it, then by definition it must be, er, "acceptable"

Surprising really the number of people here who suspect a scam.

I always figured that they that continually suspect are generally pretty suspect themselves.

Anyway, Globespan now has the official letter of complaint along with the offer of medical evidence to back up the case, so watch this space, supporters and detractors alike.

[Glamgirl]

As you haven't really answered my question, but given more information anyways, I'm even more concerned if your relative is travelling solo, due to her health issues. I'm sure you know best, but I can't help it, due to losing valued elderly family members lately. Have a good Christmas.

Gg

[Final 3 Greens]

If the airline state seven days advance is needed to change tickets and they also state opening hours of their office I can't see any grounds for complaint.

Smith

It's not quite as simple as that.

Let's make this hypothetical, as I don't know the facts of El Grifo's case, only some parts of it.

If the office can only be contacted by using a number that is not accessible from another country, yet the airline has accepted a booking from that country, in my opinion the company is skating on thin ice.

If the company provides only internet access, then it would be interesting to see how a small claims administrator would view that, is one channel (that may be unreliable) sufficient? I don't have a sense of whether that would fly or not.

Just because a company operates a particular business model, the law is not altered in any way, e.g. Tesco and Harrods.

If the airline does provide access and the opening hours are reasonable (e.g. opening for 5 minutes is not!), then I agree with your conclusion that it is acceptable.

[El Grifo]

Sorry Glamgirl, I honestly thought you we having a dig, rather than asking a question.

The truth is she normally travels solo , she does so twice a year, despite her medical condition she is a very fit 83 year old.

Whilst here, she out of bed before us every morning and off for a walk along the beach.

To answer your question.
In this instance, she was to be taken to the airport and checked in by friends and was being met airside by other friends who, she was to have contacted by mobile when she got through. This was the first time we had used this option.

Now of course the plan has changed. We are taking it day by day.

Final 3 greens

We finally got through to Groundbum with your excellent summary, allow me to use it on smith.

In my opinion, as a layman with 30 years of commercial experience involving contracts, it is unreasonable for a company to set a time limit for changes and then fail to give a customer reasonable access to contact the company to make a change within the time limit.

Implied terms and conditions springs to mind, in the sense that if a company says you can change within 7 days, then it implies that you should have the mechanism to change within 7 days and this can be as binding as a written clause.


If I may be totally honest, I have used the same statement in my letters to both the call centre and head office of Globspan.


Thank you for that.

El Grifo

[Rainboe]

Sorry, but from your own words, I don't think the lady is fit to travel alone. She is confused. She is not able to get herself around the airport mentally, nor I suspect, physically. During flight, she will require, on this 4 hour ordeal for her, additional care and attention requirements on an already very busy cabin crew. It is also obvious that the airline is sticking to the contracted terms of its agreement with you. Dragging its name through the mud is unfair. Whilst they may agree for humanitarian reasons to show discretion, it is within their reasonable right to decline. 99% of the public will lie through their teeth with all sorts of sob stories to get around fare requirements, and that is behind their reluctance so far to waver their rules.

Really, I think all is said and done now. Maybe a report on the outcome would be useful, but we're just banging away at the same stuff.

[El Grifo]

Rainboe for goodness sakes, if anybody is banging away it is you.

I know that you are not stupid.

What I can't understand is why you seem unable to accept the facts.

I have no idea where you get all this "wandering about the airport dazed and confused stuff" It would never have happen and is never likely to happen.

I am not going into the "airline sticking to its contracted terms" crap again, we put that one to bed a long time ago .

99% of the public may well lie throught their teeth with all sorts of sob stories, but I am the remaining 1%..

I am constantly surprised by the cynics on this thread.

Globespan called today and in half an hour, I will be calling them back .

Watch this space.

[groundbum]

el grifo earlier said "now we'd got through to groundbum" well I haven't been convinced at all! We still have somebody who rolled the diced and didn't get what they wanted/felt they deserved(the feeling of entitlement is palpable in this post). So they've gone all sobby and starting calling newspapers etc.

Rather than the entire western global capitialised system somehow winding back 100 years to some kind of village based Victorian paternalism, methinks the original poster would do better to get into the jive of the modern disposable "oh well" call center-led world we've wished upon ourselves. Sure save on the anxiety pills..

G

[El Grifo]

I suppose what has surprised me the most on this thread, is the sheer extravagance of some contributers, allowing them to run away with the facts and turn them into fantasy.

Here are some "fact" facts.

I did not in fact contact the press, that was red herring I contacted Globespan.

Globespan called me yesterday. The caller was a rational, clear thinking person, a far cry from the gender-confused, lightweight item that shreikingly dismissed me last week.

A decision had been made higher up the chain, that I had in fact been treated unfairly and that in fact there was a flaw in the system regarding overseas callers.

They offered to change my flight dates.

Unfortunately, the rider was that a decision regarding new dates would have to be made today, Saturday at the latest. The doctor however, will not make any decision regarding fitness to fly, until Wednesday.

A sympathetic and benevolent soul has kindly supplied me with all of the personal contact details I need to get in touch with Tom Dalrymple, Globespan's chairman. He is described as "A bit of a tyrant" but someone who would like to hear how his staff are dealing with problems such as this.

Why quit when I am ahead.

Monday will see me having a chat with the aforementioned Mr Dalrymple, something I am quite looking forward to really. It will be interesting at least to get his views.

Broadly speaking, there are three different kinds of people on this thread.

People of the same mindset as myself, who will not tolerate injustice and expect fair play.

People who appear genuinely concerned about the welfare of the "passenger"

and

People who seem quite happy to fall at the first hurdle and allow themselves to be trampled into the ground. People of this nature not only do themselves a disservice, but make it easier for companies to deny the rights of others.

As I said earlier on this thread, in 0ver 90% of the times I have taken up cudgels against a company, I have come away with a favourable solution.

I recently had €8000 worth of camera gear stolen between HAV and MBJ.
The airline in question after, much discusion and a bit of coercion, had it replaced within four days.

This ticket issue is by comparison, chickenfeed :ok:

For the humanists here on the thread, I talked to the patient today, she is up and about and taking short walks along the hospital corridors. She had to cut the conversation short however, as she spotted the WRI ladies arriving with tea and biscuits, she knows her priorities.

As soon as she is well enough to travel, La Grifa will fly back and bring her here.

At the risk of "banging away" I will come back after speaking to the fearsome Tom.

Thanks for the pm's :D

[Final 3 Greens]

El Grifo

I am pleased that someone at Globespan realised that you were disadvantaged by the telephone number.

It sounds to me as if they have been reasonable in offering the ability to change today, even though that is not what you need.

As for Groundbum, I'd give up; s/he obviously has little comprehension of contract law and prefers to cast aspersions and personal insults - not worth the time bothering with.

[smith]

El Grif


Any news on the outcome of your telephone meeting?

[El Grifo]

Hi smith.

I have a phone appointment with the hospital consultant tomorrow.

He is hoping to advise when Mrs Herkes is likely to be fit to fly.

I decided to wait until I had full details before calling Tom Dalrymple.

No use going off half-cocked I thought.

I am 100% committed to calling him and I shall be happy to post the outcome.


Cheers
El Grifo

[TSR2]

Best wishes to the patient and best of luck with your telephone call.

[hamiltonyhm]

I work for GSM and lets be honest if it was a sick flight/cabin crew member Mr D or the wicked sister (half wit, no aviation experience) would insist we fly. Only strong characters and union recognition that we now say N O spells NO!

[TightSlot]

Once more, in English please?

[Shack37]

I work for GSM and lets be honest if it was a sick flight/cabin crew member Mr D or the wicked sister (half wit, no aviation experience) would insist we fly. Only strong characters and union recognition that we now say N O spells NO!

I too was a little confused at first but I'll have a go.

"I am a Globespan employee and in my opinion, had the patient been a flight or cabin crew member, Mr. Dalrymple or (his?) wicked (ugly?) sister would have insisted that he/she should fly. However, due to strong union representation, it is now accepted by the company (GSM) that when we refuse to fly due to illness then they (the company) must accept it".

I hope this helps, the poster may wish to clarify further.
s37

[cockney steve]

J F C :eek: 48 posts .....the nub is,
" Due to the contracting airline hiding behind an incompetent call-centre and having an unusable alternative contact, I was unable to meet their change/rebooking conditions. As I considered this unfair , I am seeking redress"

Quite right too. Court is a last resort,but cheap and effective-incidentally, the DEFENDANT can elect to move the hearing to their nearest Court (England,don't know about jockistan)
Document times, dates, contents of calls...emails....letters.

Present a clear precis + corroborating evidence....Under small-claims, legal expenses are not recoverable.

I bought a "clocked" car at auction,with the displayed mileage warranted.....took me a year to get rogue trader's name(threatened auction -house with being cited as conspirator to fraud) , negotiate with him and finally "have my day".....he had sent solicitor's letters to attempt intimidation....awarded claim in full, plus "expert witness fee" which was under the ~£150 cap, plus the plaint fee......he'd have been much cheaper cancelling the sale and refunding buyer's premium. :ugh:

Almost certainly ,this case would pass the average person's concept of "reasonableness"...that it should be as easy to find AND USE the alteration and cancellation features, as the booking features.
British consumer law ,by and large, prohibits "sharp practise" T&C's based on that premise,are unenforceable and, AFAIK, illegal,to boot.....so they could face El G's CIVIL claim AND HMG's CRIMINAL Charges.....yes, there are SOME things that are still good about UK.

[El Grifo]

Whilst I was still banging away at the full blown Tw*ts at Globespan, The old dear died a few days ago.

She did get her final holiday and she had a friggin ball.


Heading back to bury her tomorrow.

Not with Globespan I hasten to add.:(

[Michael Birbeck]

This issue is a legal and contractual one relating to rights and duties. At another level it is a moral one.

Globespan do not appear to have acted in good faith and are hiding behind a call centre (the last recourse of so many companies including some large UK airline companies).

I would suggest that you take legal counsel. It is this sort of sharp operation that is dragging us all into the mire and you are right to pursue it.

It is surprising how many people just don't seem to be able to grasp these issues, that is until they are stung.

If we all took more time to pursue this kind of dodgy dealing we would all be better off.

Note to self, don't do business with Globespan at any level.

[El Grifo]

As a kind of requiem, I just sent this to the Dalrymple.

Just to show you that perhaps grass can grow under your feet.

I took this issue up with every accessible person in your organisation, they ranged from a sympathetic but un-moved secretary to a raging gay who screamed and screamed. The old dear died last week but the story still lives.

I am proud to be Scottish, you appear to be the flipside, the caricature that spoils the good reputation of our people.


Read it and weep Tam, ma bonnie lad.


http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/353991-difficulities-globespan.html

[Michael SWS]

...they ranged from a sympathetic but un-moved secretary to a raging gay who screamed and screamedAnd you expect to be taken seriously with this offensive, homophobic nonsense?

Your case was flimsy (to say the least) from the outset, but I think this example of foot-stamping has pretty much scuppered any chance you had of sympathy from the people (and yes, they're real people) at Globespan.

Your letter will probably end up in the "to be read out at Christmas parties" drawer.

[TightSlot]

Grifo - I'm sorry for your loss, and can imagine that you're distressed.

However, I'm still going to pull you up on this. The perceived sexual preference of a GS employee, or indeed any employee of any company anywhere is irrelevant. You may feel differently but as I understand it, the law doesn't and neither does UK society in general. Posting your own prejudices in public does not enhance your position in this matter - quite the reverse.

Depressing really - you just lost my vote...

[El Grifo]

No worries Tightslot.

I just tell it exactly as it is. Pure and simple. Because that is how it was.

The attitude and "personality" of the person with whom I had endless discussion affected the outcome of the situation. He was useless in his job

Hysterical was probably a word that I could use.

Should I lie, should I conceal the truth, should I whimper behind the skirts of what little britain touts as "political correctness". No.

That kind of thinking is a creeping disease which will and already is doing great harm to Britain and the Brits.

That what I sent to Tom Dalrymple.

That is what stands.

[extralegroom]

I too am sorry for your loss, but I also tell it like it is.

Just because a male airline employee was "hysterical", that makes him "a raging gay"? I honestly did have sympathy for your case but sadly, like TightSlot, I've lost all that sympathy and also respect for you. That tends to happen when you let emotion and prejudice cloud logic and judgement, which is exactly what you've done.

One parting thought: the terminology you use to describe political correctness, "a creeping disease", could equally be applied to what you have expressed through your ill-chosen words - homophobia.

[Skipness One Echo]

Speaking as a gay man, one of the things my male friends often ask is why are so many cabin crew and other airline staff gay? The thing that depresses me is that they are able to tell a persons sexual preference only because they conform to a stereotype, too often mincing or over reacting, frequently to remain the centre of attention.
It IS very true that aviation has way more than it's fair share of divas and drama queens who love a good cat fight or talking down to the customer. I reiterate that this isn't everyone by any means, but it is reinforced as normal behaviour due to the mix of gay / straight within the industry. I shouldn't be able to tell your sexual preference by the way you behave but believe you me, in the airline industry, it is worn as a badge of pride.
In the wider world, it causes unease to be so obvious. Speaking as a gay man.........

[muckin fuddle]

Speaking as a gay man, one of the things my male friends often ask is why are so many cabin crew and other airline staff gay? The thing that depresses me is that they are able to tell a persons sexual preference only because they conform to a stereotype, too often mincing or over reacting, frequently to remain the centre of attention.
It IS very true that aviation has way more than it's fair share of divas and drama queens who love a good cat fight or talking down to the customer. I reiterate that this isn't everyone by any means, but it is reinforced as normal behaviour due to the mix of gay / straight within the industry. I shouldn't be able to tell your sexual preference by the way you behave but believe you me, in the airline industry, it is worn as a badge of pride.
In the wider world, it causes unease to be so obvious. Speaking as a gay man.........



:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Louie14]

Dont use them used to work for them,,,enuf said got out quick quick quick :mad::mad::mad::mad: