Vaus Wants To Delay Orders

[dirty deeds]

from the Australian....



VIRGIN Blue is asking Boeing to delay delivery of some of its 777s because of a strike by Boeing machinists.

The industrial action has meant the launch of Virgin's V Australia has been pushed into the traditionally quiet post-holiday period.

The airline is due to get two of Boeing's aircraft shortly and might beat its revised launch date for its international offshoot of February 28.

Virgin Blue had originally planned to launch in mid-December to take advantage of the Christmas peak, but was forced to push the date back when a machinists strike at Boeing meant it was unable to get its planes in time.

The delay is understood to have cost the airline about $3million, as it was forced to rebook passengers on alternative flights and keep staff employed without revenue coming in. It has also been forced to cut the price of tickets to reflect the fact it is now launching in a period of lower consumer demand.

It now wants to delay delivery of aircraft three and four to give it time to bed down its initial operations.

Chief executive Brett Godfrey said the airline was talking to Boeing about delivery dates and was seeking flexibility from Boeing given the pain the US aircraft maker had caused it.

He said it was asking for a delay so the first four planes were not delivered so closely together.

"We're going to have our aeroplanes but I just don't want them here all at the same time before we launch," he said.

"So the work I have to do before Christmas is firm up that we can hopefully slide some of the later ones a little bit back. But we're very much on track for the end of February."

Mr Godfrey said Virgin did not have the resources to take four aircraft within the space of time proposed by Boeing.

"And secondly I'd like to get into the market first before we ramp ourselves up to full production," he said.

"Which is what the plan was in December. If you recall, we were going to launch Sydney-LA on December 15 and not look at any further capacity until we launched Brisbane on March 1."

Mr Godfrey said the airline was still looking at capacity cuts on domestic routes but said it was not panicking.

He said he was somewhat reassured by third-quarter figures and was now focused on what was going to happen this quarter.

Mr Godfrey said he believed Australians would still travel, but stay closer to home.

"I'm still a firm believer that retail sales are not a reflection of aviation any more," he said. "People will put off a car right now, they'll put off a white good or a flat screen TV.

"But they still want to travel at Christmas time and they've still got used to the fact that travel has become so affordable that it's become part of their everyday lives."

Meanwhile, figures released this week suggest budget travellers in Australia are in for a good Christmas, with the lowest airfares at a record low for December. Figures show that the best discount fares at the start of the month were 25 per cent cheaper than in December last year. Tourism groups are urging travellers to take advantage of the low fares and catch domestic flights.

[indamiddle]

no wonder! a number of the drivers for the 777 have now decided to stay where they are with the oz dollar falling off a cliff

[porch monkey]

It's as much about crewing as anything else.........

[wirgin blew]

Saving money by only having 2 empty planes instead of 4. I hope Obama can turn the USA around quickly when he comes to office.

[dirty deeds]

Management met with C & T department recently to discuss why senior pilots have not taken up positions with V. Management are generally surprised about the lack of interest in V from the VB ranks.

Have heard that because of pilot numbers in the wrong places (as opposed to too many pilots), upper management have been given an ultimatum from BG, fix the problem or your on your bike. BG apparently angry that last on first off was allowed into the last EBA. This means if redundancies occur, the EMB operation will be severely effected. They also want VB FO's to take DEC's with PB on PB terms and conditions. Yeh right!

SHOW ME THE MONEY!

$175 base for a captain on a B777 and 9 days off a month with no roster protection. YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING! :=:=:=:=

[coaldemon]

Wow DD with your attitude I am sure V management will be racing to give you a direct entry command on the 777. I understand there is a recruitment freeze on at VB so I am not sure if that is the Ultimatium that you are refering to. As for demanding more money when they haven't made a cent yet and VB seem to be positioning for a reduction in pilots numbers, intereresting industrial tactic. Let the ranting begin.......

[neville_nobody]

What's the alternative to a first on last off? Boot someone who has been with you for 4 years while keep the 6 month FO on?? I think the problem is more of a resource allocation than of over staffing.

[Kingswood]

Minor correction, did you perhaps mean Last in, First off?

Kingswood

[mention1]

The problem is there are too many 737 F/O's and not enough EMB F/O's. If there are lay-offs then the newer recruits are all on the EMB, the exact pool they do not want to loose.

737 F/O's do not want to move to EMB either because of loss of salary. Same reason they don't want to take up the PB command. Also why would they go to V Aus and have 9 days off a roster instead of 12?

[KRUSTY 34]

mention1:

For the good of the company of course. Years of sacrifice, training, family, sanity.... why wouldn't any pilot be prepared to "take one" for the team!

They (management) really do not have any idea do they!

[Led Zeppelin]

LR3 -

The "massive shareholdings" are practically worthless now. Some of them, however, did make millions early on in the piece when the business was much more focused. Share price now around 28 cents.

As it stands now, executive largesse and corporate inaction has crippled the organisation to the point where it is rudderless and yet, it's allegedly about to start an international operation to the world's biggest sinking economy.

If it's true, Tiger into Sydney will also further undermine the VB operation.

Someone in Virgin has to have the balls to rein this lot in and get the company back to a long term sustainable operating mode.

It's Ansett all over again if they don't.

Go figure.:ugh:

[dirty deeds]

Coaldemon,

You are correct, I hope management will not race to give me command on the B777, just like they have done with the other pilots at VB. The attitudes are directly proportional to what is a fair salary for a "FAIR" days work! If my attitudes are directly proportional to how the whole VB/VAUS recruitment process was sold to us during the EBA as opposed to how the actual recruitment process has panned out, and how crap the package is at VAUS for a pilot, well so be it!

The ultimatum I was refering to was the poor management application of resourse planning and an EBA clause that severely effects the companies abilities to kull in areas where its needed, and grow in others areas where required.

Demanding more money when the company has not even started yet is a lame argument. The package is very substandard, its a package that is less than the B737, in every way. So if you believe that is what you are worth, good for you, but I will then have to reserve the right to express my opinion of what I think of you, as you have expressed your opinion of what you think of me.

"Doctor, would you like to come and operate at our new hospital, its got the state of the art gear, but its a start up hospital and I can only pay 2/3rds of the going rate for your services, please help us out, and I will look after you when things get going and times are better, you will have no say about your schedule, and if you brown nose hard enough and don't dare to buck the system, I may one day make you a senior surgeon."

And the Doctors would come flooding, yeh right!

[mates rates]

My understanding is that VB management see pilot employment at Virgin as type specific.So they think they can retrench off the 737 whilst employing on the EMB.

[KRUSTY 34]

Whatever "they", (management) think is irrelevant. What the EBA says re: redundency is where the outcome will lie.

[Grivation]

It's not hard - transfer 737 FO's to the EMB on 737 wages. Airlines do it all the time all over the world.

[F111]

Grivation,

That offer is on the table as of last week. The offer is 6 months as an Ejet FO on 737 wages and after 6, months they will be offered a command slot on the Ejet (if suitable) or remain on the Ejet as an FO on Ejet pay or return to the 737.

[Spotlight]

It looks that way to me too. But what to do?

[Tidbinbilla]

Folks,
This thread is about V Australia - not VB. Let's get back on track, eh? If you want to talk about VB crewing matters please start another thread.

TID

[mrs nomer]

I think one of the big problems for this VOZ debacle is that if BG had come out and said that the international operation was not going ahead, it would have had serious knock on effects in the public's confidence in the domestic VB - With obvious Ansett like ramifications.

If the "neurosurgeons" in Brisbane have got any sense, they'll come up with a plan that enables VOZ to be "quietly" cut adrift so that the remainder of the company has some chance of surviving over the longer term.

[mates rates]

VA VB and PB are all seen as separate companies.If VA is not viable on it's own it will be cut loose rather than drag VB down with it.

[The Chef]

Lets get one thing straight.... VB VA & PB are separate companies - when it suits BG & co. When it doesn't suit, they are the same.

How do you thing VA will get off the ground without finance & backing from VB. VB will not let VA sink, as long as BG is at the helm - BG will sink every $ into making it work till it all comes crashing down (hopefully not!).

The Chef

[pylet]

mates rates: "VA VB and PB are all seen as separate companies.If VA is not viable on it's own it will be cut loose rather than drag VB down with it."

The vast majority of pax wouldn't know if they flew on Pac Blue or Virgin Blue. To them it's all the same, especially when a Pac Blue 737 operates a DJ route. Virgin Blue and the media has spun Vaus to be the international arm of Virgin Blue. They are not all seen as separate companies, and the elimination of one will cause lack of market confidence in the rest.

If BG and the execs at DJ had an effective way of cutting their losses with Vaus, they probably would have. But they've come this far, purchases the aircraft, employed and trained the crew, advertised the service and even the facilities (sim). They have to launch, and the plan they are using to overcome the present industry issues, is to delay the delivery of additional aircraft and services.

[Led Zeppelin]

Pylet,

I'm sure what you say is close to the mark, but what are they going to do when the cash flow shortfall draws down on Virgin's cash reserves. There's a point where they must protect the domestic business from collapse. Cash is king - without it, they're stuffed.

It's an untenable situation in a very depressed economic environment.

[6100]

which of you rocket scientists actually knows what virgins cash position is, whether they have positive cashflow at present, what the break even load factor is for Vaus, what the forward sales are telling management, what effect oil dropping to $40 a barrell has had on the business plan, and then what the combination of all those things have on the Virgin Blue group.

If all you geniuses were running the biggest companies in the world at present, they would all be filing for bankruptcy because the outlook is scary.

It is for this reason you guys fly aeroplanes and don't run companies. If Richard Branson ran and hid every time he faced difficult tiimes, Virgin would still be a record store in a basement in London.

If Vaus is a viable company, there is plenty of money in the wings to fund it for the short term. If it is not, it will be sold or wound up and life will go on. One thing is certain, it will be given a chance. They have come too far to pull the plug just because the financial environment has changed. In fact, high oil prices were a far higher threat than the credit crunch. If oil had continued to climb, i would say Vaus would be dead in the water as we speak.

[mrs nomer]

6100

Like your optimism - Hope the reality matches it.:E

As far as cash reserves go, 4 or 5 hundred million dollars won't go far in the longer term if it has to support both the VA and domestic operations.

[mrs nomer]

abc1 - I have held an ATP for over 30 years and NEVER paid for an endorsement.

I have also been VERY lucky to be continuously employed over that time - believe me it ain't rancor - just what I believe to be an honest assessment of the mess that Virgin now finds itself in.

I'm sure you'll agree we are all entitled to an opinion.

[kotoyebe]

If all you geniuses were running the biggest companies in the world at present, they would all be filing for bankruptcy because the outlook is scary.
It is for this reason you guys fly aeroplanes and don't run companies.

Umm...some of the biggest companies in the world have, and others are just about to file for bankruptcy. With skills like that, is this the reason management "geniuses" run companies, and not fly aeroplanes? (and get paid squillions with no downside)

[KRUSTY 34]

When do you start with VAUS 6100? :)

[Sand dune Sam]

When do you start KRUSTY?

[dirty deeds]

VB management are seeking a meeting with the pilot reps to look at how they can manage the excess of 737 F/O's. The credit crisis is starting to hit lads. But there is plenty of work at PB and VAUS (oh maybe not, aircraft orders being delayed). Its going to get ugly very quickly, but management keep putting out emails to staff saying ignore the media, yet on the other hand we get emails from management saying we need your help to avoid redunancies.


The parcel is starting to unfold. They don't want to make people redundant yet I don't believe they can carry excess staff for too much longer (some F/Os are being rostered 4 months of reserve in a row), this will really put the wind up the shareholders now and set the media off into a further spin, this is how it all begins, this is what happened to AN, it starts off as little warnings here and there and everyone goes into denial for awhile, then the snowball effect begins and critical mass is reached in a very short period of time.

1600,

V as a group is wasting so much cash at the moment it must be hurting them. Vaus has been delayed and staff are being paid. Aircraft orders are being delay, both the 777 and EMB. They have too many pilots at VB yet not enough at PB. They cannot crew the EMB because pilots don't want to shift bases to Perth and Sydney, they have pilots on 4 months of reserve yet calling them out on their RDO's for a call out payment. They have 18 empty red seats on most flights, which means on average, one in every ten aircraft is flying around empty (no wonder the load factors have reduced, its not just the credit crisis), Live to Air has been a flop, and remains a flop (system faults galore), the EMB dispatch rate has been questionable, ask any engineer!

I want this airline to make billions of dollars, it has such a great potential and such great staff working here, yet the $50M savings they want to make is staring at them in the face. Stop having birthday parties and xmas parties, stop giving EMT's 17% payrises, get rid of this Vitality crap etc etc etc.

This is all a real worry!:sad::sad::sad:

[mrs nomer]

dirty deeds,

Thanks for giving us a sober and pragmatic description of what's really going on at the coal face.

[who_cares]

I think there maybe be plenty of ex Ansett guys and girls at VB getting a sense of deja vu.

[tsalta]

I have caught 3 x VB flights and 3 x Jetstar flights in the last month. The load factor in the general seats seemed similar, however in the 3 VB flights I did not see one person sit in the premium economy seats.

It looked a bit ridiculous for the last third of the pax to board as the back of the aircraft was full but there was all this vacant real estate up the front.

Does anyone ever sit on in the red seats?

It will be interesting to go over the VB end of financial year report soon to see how the last 1/2 compared to the first 1/2.

[goddamit]

I'm no expert but there has been so many errors over the last couple of years. The failure of the 'Blue Room'(had to be made over & relaunched as 'The Lounge'; targeting suits not backpackers), the failure of Live to Air, the failure of the premium economy product(had to relaunch it with free food & drinks), reliability of the Ejets, fuel hedging compared with the competition, problems with over crewing, & mismanagement with PB crew numbers & retention. Everything DD previously said is true, including the massive bonuses an elite few received as well as huge pay increases for the top guys & spending ridiculous amounts of cash on parties around the country. I do not know if they get market opinions & surveys of what the consumer wants or just go along with one persons dream of what he wants the airline to be like. I too loved what the airline was capable of. It seems it went well riding on the failure of Ansett but that was on the cards to outsiders long before it went downhill. Now maybe a change of leadership may work better. I'm sure shareholders are thinking along similar lines...what's the price again.

[ratpoison]

what's the price again.
Wed closed at 0.27c :ugh::cool:

[wirgin blew]

Lets just wait and see what the loads are like when it gets up and running in Feb/Mar 09. I am sure there are plenty of pax willing to give VA a try because they are the new kid on the block. They have been shafted for years by QF and UA offering a rather average product on one of the longest sectors. Finally QF have the 380's and they will be running head to head against the 777's both far superior products to the aging 747's that have been used on the route.
I believe that next year UA will pull out of the route all together and leave it to the two Aussie carriers to battle it out. QF will be happy for the competition and will give VA a percentage of the market just like they allowed DJ to take just a tad over 30% of the domestic scene.
Competition allows the employer to instill some fear in the employees and give them some leverage when its time to negotiate pay. QF needs VA to survive so it can continue to cut costs on its LH dept.

[goddamit]

no doubt VA will be a good product. If it wasn't for the strike in the US, the VA product could be the saving break VB is looking for. Its long overdue. Unfortunately it is now bleeding money from its delay. Once it's up & going it will be successful. Its a pity its been delayed.

[emudodo]

How will the announcement by Delta (that they are to operate ATL - LAX - SYD) in the new year, effect the thought process' at B******t Castle ?:\:{

Now they'll be up against three operators each with good oncarriage from the US end. They are now up against Oneworld & Star Alliance and have no useful connections with anyone at the U.S. end.

Not looking good at all !!!

Cut it loose now or lose the lot ??:ugh::{

[InTransit]

"...no useful connections..."

Despite the distant relationship between VAus and the rest of the Virgin branding, surely Virgin America would provide those useful connections from LA. :confused: Would seem to make sense to me, but then again, good sense and aviation sometimes seem to be mutually exclusive :)

[DUXNUTZ]

Many people here in the States go on the mighty dollar so if the pricing is right and the product is available on the many discount websites then who knows.

I'm mighty troubled by the possible Delta product invading Oz (but thats a personal issue) and up til now thought the V Oz product would be a success based on the competition from QF and United. Don't know about now.

Hope the folks at Virgin have got some wiley marketing ploys up their collective sleeves.

[6100]

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm sure someone will, but isn't Delta one of those ageing dinosaur legacy carriers with old aircraft and even older flight attendants.

If i am correct, they wont be much competition with V in regard to interiors and cabin service, but the US based feeder network may prove a bonus for them.

The other point worth noting is that V isn't the only airline in the world that has identified the LAX-SYD route as a money spinner. Unlike V, Delta have no pressure to start in the middle of the worst economic downturn in living memory, they could delay as long as they wanted, but instead they are choosing to do so in these uncertain times. Could it be that they are concerned that if they let V establish on the route now, then it would be even harder to gain market share once the economies recover.

But then again, i guess the rocket scientists here will have a good reason why Delta management know nothing about running airlines and are about to bring the company to its knees by flying the pacific.

Hard hat on and back to the trenches.

[Kangaroo Court]

It will only work if business travel goes up, which it won't. VAus will be really sucking wind as it ramps up without a history of business travel clientele. Maybe it will work, but it's less than hopeful, especially with the Airbus 380 and other large capacity aircraft on the same route.

[Pentacle]

How will the announcement by Delta (that they are to operate ATL - LAX - SYD) in the new year, effect the thought process

My understanding is that V Australia will code share with Virgin America, Delta, Virgin Atlantic and a number of other airlines. I'm even told that Altantic will drop a couple of their Sydney routes which will be picked up by VA overnight on the basis they have the capacity to do so.

Perhaps there's somebody from VA that can clarify?

[Mr Wright]

Are people forgetting that LA is the launch route. there are plenty of other flying planned in asia and yarpie land at the moment. Stay tuned for the latest in the coming months.
The Wright.:)

[hongkongfooey]

Are people forgetting that LA is the launch route. there are plenty of other flying planned in asia

Thats a relief ! There just is not enough capacity up here, especially since the world economy went to s**t :rolleyes:

[Kangaroo Court]

Sarcasm noted, but don't you think there will be several bankruptcies to clear the way. I'm not sure the Delta routing is not the last hurrah for that mob.

[mrs nomer]

Are people forgetting that LA is the launch route. there are plenty of other flying planned in asia and yarpie land

More routes on which to fly empty aircraft around. When the cash reserves approach the funding guarantee requirements (> 200 million), what happens then? Tying this in with interest rate requirements on the EMB in the next few years means the whole company needs a massive upturn in profitability to get over the line.

Mr Godfrey, for f@cks sake do something NOW or we are ALL down the gurgler.:mad:

[KRUSTY 34]

K.C.

That sound's strangely like some other airline's rationale for going ahead in the face of logic.

Lets pray that some other carrier goes T!ts up, so we can go in and exploit it. I recall something like that happened a little over 8 years ago. Great business plan!

Irony can be quite ironic sometimes!

[Kangaroo Court]

Agreed Krusty me ol' clown, but the bean counters think it's better to start with nothing than in the hole millions. That's why keep doin' it!

[porch monkey]

Problem is Krusty, it worked last time........ So of course it will this time too..:rolleyes:

[blow.n.gasket]

Heard a rumour that Joyce at Qantas was approached by Voz to see if he wanted to buy some new 777's.
His response apparently was anotomically impossible.:bored:

[coaldemon]

Talking to one of the Air NZ managers the other day and they are trying to bring their 777-300ER orders forward (so they can retire their 747s) but can't find ANYONE in the current order book that will do a swap with them. If V Aus wanted the planes to disappear there are quite a few airlines and leasing companies that would take them today so I believe that the rumoured offer to Qantas is a complete load of :yuk:. THe 777s will turn up in the not too distant future.... :D . United is the one which will be the most at risk in this shootoff. Old aircraft , old products and one foot in the Chapter 11 field for most of this decade.

[maui]

Before anyone takes too much notice of what Blow.n Gasket has to say on the matter, have a quick peek at his previous posts and assess his probable motivation.

M

[B043]

I hear from a friend of mine who operates for United, that they (United) will be lucky to be doing Syd-Lax once VA gets up and running. They just can't compete.......... Interesting times! :cool:

[Sunstar320]

I hear from a friend of mine who operates for United, that they (United) will be lucky to be doing Syd-Lax once VA gets up and running. They just can't compete.......... Interesting times!
Thanks for stating the obvious:rolleyes:

[somewhereat1l]

V Australia won't be giving up the 777's. All go for launch in February.

Delaying delivery of aircraft 3 and 4 is sensible. It will allow V Australia to launch, iron out the problems and perfect the operation before expanding. Clever move.

Give V Australia a fair go. Its going to be a fantastic carrier.

[Kanga1]

All go for launch on 27 Feb. The Checkers all go to pick up aircraft No 1 at the end of January.

Heard today that the new call sign is "VEE OZ".

Time will tell but I reckon V will be a huge success.

[dizzylizzy]

Can anyone shed any light as to why people are saying that V Aust. is going to be a "fantastic" carrier? The way I see it is it'll be the same as all other full service LH carriers, just like V. Atlantic is.

[somewhereat1l]

Passionate people :ok:

[KRUSTY 34]

Passion won't feed you or your family. Just ask the crew's of Compass MkI and II! I hope I'm wrong, but my prediction,... If this thing goes ahead at all, it will be a bad memory by the middle of next year! If VB aren't careful, they'll also become a shot duck trying to keep it afloat.

If I'm wrong, I'll gladly wipe the egg off my face and appologise. however, I'm afraid you guys that think so highly of this doomed venture may be making beds in a burning house!

Flame suit on! :sad:

[golow]

On Christmas eve there seemed to be huge amount of VB crew in uniform paxing on QF flights. VB must have been full so no staff travel?

[greenslopes]

Go Low .................. Hahahahahahahahah, thats the best I've heard for ages.............Boom,Boom

[im sparticus]

I wonder what QF charged VB?

probably alot more than VB charge their own pax, lol!

[maui]

Krusty How could the Compass Mk 11 failure, have any relevance to any argument about V Aus.

If you brain cells are so deficient that you cannot recall that Mk 11's failure was one of directorial pilferring, than perhaps you should stop spreading your malicious garbage before you do your credibility any more harm.

M

[KRUSTY 34]

Easy maui!! No need to get personal.

I was making reference to the "passionate" people in this game that have placed their faith (and their eggs) into the basket of wishfull thinking! Most knew at the time that Compass was problematic to say the least, but there were still plenty willing to ignore the warning signs and dive in.

Sometimes that sort of "Damn the Torpedoes, full speed ahead" attitude works. Sometimes, sadly it doesn't. If you are one of the optimistic, willing to be underpaid and overworked throng, then for your sake I hope I'm wrong. :ok:

[goddamit]

Krusty, most people said the same for VB. Go for facts not fables.

[No Idea Either]

Goddammit

Were it not for Ansetts demise and the world economic boom, VB probably would have gone by the wayside. As Krusty says, sometimes it works (mostly through luck), most of the time these enterprises are adismal failure. Lucky for me, Vb were lucky back then, hopefully they'll be lucky again in the future, we need it.

but then again, I have no idea!!!

[KRUSTY 34]

Just old and cynical I guess B043. But I did say, for the sake of those concerned I hope it works out!

Really!!

[maui]

Krusty that's bulsmit. After some 75 posts on a company you have said you have no desire to join, why do you bother. What really is your motivation to carry on so.

And as for getting personal, 72 pilots and a whole family of other personnel would be justified in taking your constant denigration of their company and their efforts, as being personal.

M:ugh::ugh:

[KRUSTY 34]

Ok, I'll bite!

Maui, you are absolutely correct. I have no desire to join VA whatsoever. After first looking closely at the rediculous (and there is no other way to put it) Terms and Conditions, I came to the conclusion that pay and lifestyle could not possibly be an incentive. As this was to be my incentive, I chose not to proceed.

Not only that, the significant exposure to a now reducing market, competitors, both foreign and local, who will use their muscle in a protracted price war, and the reliance for capital from an already highly geared parent, IMHO makes for a career moved based more on wishful thinking than sound judgement. But you've been there before haven't you? Which to me makes it all the more puzzleing!

And while we're counting posts, have a search for the postings of Dirty Deeds. He's closer to the source than I am, and frankly much more critical, but I have yet to see the same level of angst directed to him that you guys have to me. Is it possible because he is one of your own he may counter the insults with facts that you may, or may not be able to argue with?

Now according to you, (and your mate Sand Dune Sam amongst others), I therefore have no right to comment on the subject. I have an idea, lets create a login for this particular thread, and only those with a rose coloured VA employee number be allowed to participate. That way you can all feel warm and fuzzy, content in the knowledge that you have made the best possible decision for you and your families. right up to the point when the whole thing goes T!ts up!

But then I'll probably get the blame for that as well! :=

[powersfasher]

Seventy five posts on the one subject, that’s not obsessive.

Next thing you guys will be saying is that because I watched Kate Beckinsale amazing performance in Underworld, about seventy times that is obsessive too.

Surely not?

[Sand dune Sam]

Bo43....I think you will find that KRUSTY has been interviewed and most likely rejected from both Virgin Blue and V Australia....he borrows lines from others, that being he's looked at the contract and it isnt for him..reality is, he is lashing out at the company and others for his own incapabilities.....

I dont have an employee number at VA, however I do know a few really good guys there and I can assure you, they wouldnt be taking any notice of the rot that comes out of the mouth of this individual. KRUSTY's own credibility comes into question when he of all people questions the motivation of others to make a career decision based on THEIR own personal circumstances.

Most of KRUSTY's mates at REX have left for greener pastures to join Jetstar or Virgin or even Qantas..doesnt surprise me he seems so bitter and twisted.

Merry Xmas by the way KRUSTY:ok:

[Sunfish]

Kanga:

All go for launch on 27 Feb. The Checkers all go to pick up aircraft No 1 at the end of January.


Yup, and there is more to it than that, but my lips are sealed.

[KRUSTY 34]

Gidday Sam, didn't take you long I see. Xmas is long gone old mate, and I just checked the site before going out for some very looked forward to New years celebrations. But I diverge...

A.a.f. certainly hit the nail on the head when it comes to some of you blokes! You don't know me, despite you often alluding to the contrary. I would like to however set the record straight, just so you don't have to wipe too much more egg from your face. Let's call it holiday spirit.

I have never had an interview with either VA or VB. I was offered an interview with VB approx 14 months ago, but had to decline due to personal reasons. I have not as yet been offered a second one, but sometimes that's the way it goes. Usually not for the sinister reasons that some believe, but merely because of timing. My reasons for not accepting the original invitation are as valid today as they were then, so I have no regrets, and I certainly do not feel cheated or disadvantaged. My decision not to even apply to VA, well, I've already told you why with regard to that one.

As far as my "own incapabilities" are concerned Sam, that's low even for you. I have never resorted to deriding another pilot's capabilities on this forum, and the idea that someone would do so, without even knowing the target simply beggars belief! If you were hoping to score points to help support you point of view, I'm afraid you just may have suffered a setback.

Now Sunfish,

C'mon, we're all anonymous friends here! What have you heard? If nothing else it'll give Maui and Sam some real ammo to fire at me!

[Sand dune Sam]

Your very good at cutting the suit to fit your own amount of cloth KRUSTY. All you do is troll pprune commenting allot about an airline you have no interest in joining, and then YOU have the audacity to put down those that have made a decision to take employment at that company.

Your snide remarks about VA's viability and the comments like "for guys families sake" when having a go at those that have made a decison to join VA, are nothing short of what you claim, deriding.

Many guys in VA have allot of experience and have been around the traps flying aircraft you havent. They have seen it all, and they have valid opinions in regards to VA and it's viability. They are well placed to make decisions regarding their families and their career. They have no regard for an individual like you that has never left the Sydney basin giving his "experienced" opinion.

How about you make this a new years resolution..go and find a VA Captain or senior F/O..maybe someone that has been O/S for a while, go and sit down with them and have a cup of coffee and a long chat about what they have done and where..and their reason for joining VA..You may be enlightened.

Aviation is full of risks, from when you first start, to wondering if your going to pass your command checkride in an airline and then keeping your job. How about you stop the smart alec remarks about VA and those that have taken a risk on joining VA and would be committed to making it viable.

To those that have joined VA, all the best and I hope things go well in 2009:ok:

[maui]

Krusty I apologise. For too long I have thought you to be a miserable cynical know it all who just wishes to rain on other peoples parades. How wrong I was. I now see you as a shining white knight with infinite knowledge, experience and wisdom, bent on saving us all from ourselves. In the spirit of the season and on behalf of all the miscreants who have entertained thoughts that there anything good out there, I thank you for so willingly sharing with us all that vast wisdom and foresight accumulated over your long and meritorious career. Thank-you.:ok:
Maui

[porch monkey]

Sunfish, why bother to even post?

[dizzylizzy]

... question, how can V Aus try to lure a QF FFPL or QFCL member into using their product? So compare the Q Business to the V Aust? What's the benefit of losing their status...

[DJ1989]

Happy New Year All ! Have any pictures of aircraft #1 surfaced yet other than those 2 that appeared last month?

[waren9]

Status?

You only have status if someone else credits you with it. Otherwise its called ego.

Pilots and cabin crew do not have status. There might be plenty of ego but there is no status.

Whatever it is that stops any QF crew going to VAus, it sure as sh!t aint status.

[porch monkey]

Think dizzy was actually referring to passengers, dude....

[Little_Red_Hat]

FFPL= Platinum FF members, QFCL= Qantas Club Chairman's Lounge (invite only members)

IIRC Platinums make up less than 2% of FF's but contribute a much larger chunk of revenue to QF.

Nothing to do with pilots/crew. I suppose the question was, what benefit would these people get by switching to V Aus?

[KRUSTY 34]

I'd say very little if any LRH.

From what my sources in QF tell me, Qantas will fight (for as long as it takes) for every seat SY-LAX-SY. Ironically VA have yielded stacks to QF already, due to the delays in the first service! :(