Off loaded luggage

[HALOjumper]

I hope I'm in the right section of the site regarding my question, if not, I apologise and will attempt to ask it elsewhere. Anyway, and in short . . .

Flying home recently from Baton Rouge, Louisiana, to London Gatwick, via Atlanta, I utilised Delta Air Lines. My 14.30 flight from Baton Rouge was delayed by over two hours, meaning I'd missed my British Airways connection to the UK.

Promises by Delta to have me transferred onto a Delta or Air France flight turned out to be hot air. A BA customer service supervisor told me it was "f**king tough luck" and no, I wouldn't automatically be accommodated on the next evenings BA flight to the UK.

Consequently, I asked for my luggage to be "pulled". I was told by Delta personnel this process might involve a two hour wait. I only had a night in a hotel (at my expense) ahead of me so was happy to kick my heels for two hours. After three hours, my luggage hadn't emerged. I made enquiries with luggage handlers and was told pulled luggage could take anything from 6 to 8 hours to appear.

In the early hours of the following morning I approached Delta lost luggage personnel. They confirmed that my request to have my one item pulled was made at 20.21, but added at 20.41 my item had left Atlanta bound for Europe.

Can "unaccompanied" luggage travel without its owner being on the flight? Is this not some breach of FAA rules?

The following morning I returned to the airport. I enquired with Delta as to my suitcase fate. I was told it had probably been returned to Baton Rouge.

$1,109.40 later, I checked in at the BA desk. There I was told BA would not allow unaccompanied luggage to fly onboard its aircraft.

Upon landing at LGW the next morning, a text alert revealed my luggage would be delivered to my home address that evening. Therefore, it had left Atlanta for UK on day one.

It duly appeared, locks broken, wrapped in tape. Inside, a standard leaflet from the TSA informing me that it was not liable for the destruction. Whether they deny responsibility with regard to the stolen items, I'm not sure.

[AircraftOperations]

I presume part of the problem came because you were booked on 2 separate tickets, with DL and BA, for the different sectors?

[HALOjumper]

I can't deny that, my mistake - and had the Delta flight not been late, I'd have made the BA flight. But should my luggage travel without me?

[RollNow!]

Well thats how it works in JAA states. I think its a global standard now especially with all the security worries surrounding aviation and again especially in the US.

Unaccompanied baggage cannot travel. There is only one way it can and thats as a "rush" bag which has been searched and scanned and signed for by the aircraft captain.
Sounds like utter "BS" on deltas behalf that your bags should take 8 hours to emerge from the dark depths of a baggage sorting area. Sounds to me like they had no idea where they were probably knew they were on board and more to the point must have been checked through onto your BA flight as transfer or "interline" bags. Meaning you yourself must have been on that flights manifest still and yet it was still allowed to travel with your bags unaccompanied.

Ive seen aircraft returned to stand for that reason when its been realised the flight has extra bags on it shouldnt. The DFT over here are ready to eat you alive for allowing that to happen knowingly or not i cant see why the TSA wouldn't

Did they turn up with any "rush" stickers or any paperwork to that effect with them?

[HALOjumper]

RollNow!

Thank you for your view. Rush stickers? Paperwork? No.

Worth mentioning, this was two days after the Mumbai attacks.

I've been to my bin and recovered the bag tag. I can't tell whether my suitcase has, as you suggest, been checked onto my BA flight, or perhaps travelled on a slightly later Delta flight. It's Double-Dutch to me, but I'll toil away.

Once again, thanks very much for your thoughts/professional views.

[RollNow!]

Does the tag have your original flight dates on it? With the original flight numbers? Were there any additional tags? That will tell you what flight they went on. If your saying that delta told you the bags were "on their way to Europe" on the original flights they have to have been screen, searched, checked etc etc.

You mentioned your case was opened with a TSA letter in it. Im wondering weather thats there method of putting it on unaccompanied. Question is... where and when was that done. In your original airport for the delta flight or the BA connection in Atlanta. Either way to get it back here it should have been signed off by the BA captain i would have thought. Whatever is on the aircraft has to be accounted for in some respect it cant just be a "bag" with no owner on a loadsheet.

[HALOjumper]

Hmmmm. Let me try to explain.

In between the main mass of bar codes are the letters LGW in white on a black back ground. Below them the ATL to LGW BA flight No., BA2226 and the date: 30Nov 1825 (the time?).

Below in the first of a series of boxes is: ATL DL5058, the code for the BTR to ATL sector. So in fact, there is nothing to suggest any flight bar the BA one. Ignore my suggestion that it might have been a later Delta flight. I'm now of the opinion that though I didn't, my luggage made the flight. Why Delta later suggested the case left Atlanta at 20.41 is anyones guess!

[RollNow!]

If those are your original flight numbers on the original dates you were meant to travel then Delta have more or less spoken from their rear the entire time. Sounds like they just didnt take your bags off to be honest. The other stuff may have happened in Atlanta, no reason for it to happen in the 1st airport as they would have had to get your bags off... why not give them you back without all the fuss otherwise?

Whether or not the brutal treatment :* of your luggage is the US / TSA way of saying "ok this is secure" meant that was the reason it traveled is a mystery. If not then they did go unaccompanied and probably without BA's knowledge. Hence a c*ck up on Deltas part. Oh dear :ugh:

[ASCOT Ops Retd]

Notwithstanding the advent of 'suicide passengers', my take on it is slightly different. As I see it the theory behind unaccompanied bags not travelling without owner is, in the good ol days, all but the nuttiest bad guys generally wanted to live. This meant that they preferred to not be on the targetted aircraft, and keeping people with their bags was a simple deterrent. Unfortunately, now martyrdom has become far more fashionable, whether the passenger travels onboard or not has become far more academic.

That said, there is undoubtedly a difference between a planned separation of pax and bag, where pax doesn't show at the gate, and an unforeseen one, where a potential terrorist couldn't have known his bag was going to travel separately, and as usual it comes down to levels of risk versus complete chaos if all rules were rigidly applied.

Air Nova (a feeder of Air Canada, if they're still in business) used to routinely separate pax from bag if the aircraft didn't trim - which was about 50% of their trips - although this was pre-9/11.

[RollNow!]

It works 2 ways though. The safe way and and the really not safe way. If an aircraft in overloaded in a hold etc or simply does not trim. If the movement of bags around the aircraft / pax around the aircraft does not solve the issue. The bags / cargo can be removed. The pax can travel without bags but not bags without pax.

It goes from being an inconvenience for the passenger and a cost for delivery and some extra security checks of the bags to being (although not in this case) rather dangerous.

[Brutes]

I agree it is a problem but safety do come first, by bag also traveled the world and when i got it back my Biltong had gone off already :{ some airlines take there time to get your lost bag to you. The best part of it all is I knew the checking agent labeled my transit bag to first destination only and corrected him on it still, he got it wrong,

Well next time i'll make sure my snacks stay with me. That was a loss of note

[ASCOT Ops Retd]

The pax can travel without bags but not bags without pax.
Unless the bags never leave their point of origin, doesn't one lead to the other by default?

[RollNow!]

Well this person is saying that they never made the flight. The bags left the point of origin and were back in Europe before he/she was.

If Halo had got to the aircraft after just making check in before it closed and their bags didnt make the hold/bins etc then they stay where they are and get rushed out on another flight.

Seems the other way round though. Delta appear to have been fibbing. The flight shouldnt have left with those bags on board without the proper screening which is sounds like they didnt get. On the delta flight anyway.

[chrystall]

every time we have travelled subload departing the states our bags have down the chute - even after 9/11 our bags have travelled without us several times without us - we were probably still in security getting screened for toothpaste and other such dangerous items - and yes its against the law !

[42psi]

Seems the US still "plows it's own furrow" when it comes to security :}

After Lockerbie there was supposed to be a ban on unacompanied bags unless security cleared .... at least in the UK :rolleyes:



However the US always did at that time .. and apparently still seems to .. let baggage travel without the pax .. from my previous dealings with US carriers I actually believe they don't in fact know what baggage is on an aircraft :eek:


It always appeared to me that bags were loaded regardless of whether the passenger made the connection or not ....

So anyone working in the US for a US carrier who can clarify .... does baggage reconciliation actually take place in the US?


On a related note ... do US carriers at home also use "psuedo security" folks to walk around their a/c looking at everyone's ID and frisking folks ..... ah.... of course this is obviously an FAA requirement as UK airport security is so poorly applied, as is all security outside of the US apparently ... moi ... cynical :rolleyes:



As for the original post .... I'v seen this many times .... your bag(s) travelled the original routing either on the original flights or the next service on the route.

The carrier simply told you something to make you go away and stop asking questions....

[RollNow!]

lol bang on there Mr 42. Sounded like male cow excrement right from the start on Deltas behalf.

I'm guessing the destruction of this persons case was the US "security" measure. As ive said before, though that cant have happened before the Atlanta connection or they would have had the bags back. Clearly a fudge and a security screw up. It does not exactly inspire confidence!! :ugh:

[ASCOT Ops Retd]

However the US always did at that time .. and apparently still seems to .. let baggage travel without the pax .. from my previous dealings with US carriers I actually believe they don't in fact know what baggage is on an aircraft http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/eek.gif
Which is hardly a robust state of affairs for anyone planning a terrorist attack! Hey, maybe that's the plan - make baggage carriage a hit and miss process, thus making any terrorist attack more of a lottery - brilliant!

Reading the OP's comments, Delta must be somehow liable for initially emplaning his bags without him onboard, but also perhaps for the resultant rough treatment by the TSA. But I'm sure both will find a dodge, somewhere behind 9/11 hysterics. I was always surprised by the policy of leaving luggage unlocked at check-in. Unless baggage is handled like cash - which it clearly isn't - doesn't unlocking it simply provide more opportunities for a rogue baggage handler to slip a device inside?

[Pilotinmydreams]

Slightly off topic this so I appologise. Whenever I travel internationally now I don't bother with locks on my suitcase as every time I have locked them in the past they've been cut off anyway!

When travelling back from Florida a few years ago my luggage was opened (another padlock ruined) which I have no problem with really given the security status at the time. My big beef however was that they must have opened it outside in a bloody monsoon as everything inside (the waterproof case) was totally soaked. The colour in the fabric cover of a book i'd bought back from the states had run and ruined a number of items of clothing. Inside was the 'we're not responsible' leaflet and despite my compaining I just had to accept that my clothes were ruined.

Security I can understand but please have some respect for people's belongings!!

Rant over

[ASCOT Ops Retd]

Always the problem when you give a government body a blank check [sic] in response to the threat of the bogey man. If they do this with your luggage, imagine what they'll do with more precious stuff like your identity and liberty.