Sky Europe no salaries ? true or false ? [Archive]

PeterPaul

24th Dec 2008, 02:02

Regarding captplaystation accounting.

The amount stated is total liabilities. Not counting total assets, which stand at 113 mio EUR. According to official preliminary report in September 2008. Yes there is a deficit (debt not covered by assets) of 60 mio EUR. But this does not take into account the "non-material" assets. Which?

I do not know another airline with such a fanatic following of customers. All voting Skyeurope the best E.Europe airline in "Skytrax" and praying that it keeps flying. To every airline there are postive and negative comments. Where are the negative reports for Skyeurope? Maybe 5% of the total? I wouldn't give them more.

One good and wise man, like M.O'Leary, has predicted in June that Skyeurope will be out in "a couple of weeks". He also painted 2 years ago, one of his planes with his "bye bye Skyeurope" wish. And Skyeurope still refuses to go bust? What a nerve!

Since then (summer 2008) despite the obvious downturn of the industry in whole, a couple of investors have each loaned the company 10 mio EUR. And not only them. Others loaned the company too. The airports, caterers etc. Maybe the personell? But yes! Maybe the customers? But yes, them too had loaned the company with 25 mio EUR (till September 2008, to fly one year from now).

Investors, providers, personell, customers, what is driving them to give away money?

Could World War III break out in the next few months? I belive not, so I bought myself a new car! Could Sky go bust in the next few months? Investors, providers, personell, customers think not, so they loan money!

That's only poor M.O'Leary against a lot of rich fools. Or there is a "non-material" asset, not shown in the balance sheet, which is collateral to all those loans. Carefully built year upon year. This is called "customer-personell loyalty". Which is quantifiable and can be priced-in.

ZeBedie

24th Dec 2008, 08:35

I saw the 'bye bye Skyeurope' jet the other day. What a nasty thing to do. We all know what MOL is like, but I was sickened.

RoyHudd

24th Dec 2008, 09:08

Agreed. I too wish the worst for O'Leary. No humanity in that individual. It may take time, but his lucky run will end.

Public damnation of your competitors (Bye, Bye, Sky Europe) is morally not defensible.

Moderator, please modify the title of this thread. If not true, it could be conceived as public bashing of an operating company from a planted adversary.

captplaystation

24th Dec 2008, 10:54

It wasn't started to bash anyone, which is why I phrased the title as a question. The information about non payment of salaries was gleaned from another source (ppjn.com) and indeed has been confirmed by several sources on here who I assume work for Sky ( they have belatedly been paid, but it was very late ,see post No 6)
Whilst I am impressed with their dedication to their company, I think it is fair, and of interest to a wider audience to know, that a company is surviving through late payment, whether it be salaries, aircraft leases or whatever.
I have no axe to grind here. Whilst the demise of Sky may indeed have a small beneficial effect on any other carrier, the dumping of more pilots on the market is of far more personal concern to me I assure you.
Anyone flying one of these mobile billboards is equally embarassed by what is writ large on the sides I can assure you, most of us don't really get that style of humour either.
As I have said a couple of times already, I wish you all well in Sky Europe, and hope for better times next year for all of us.

Nightfire

24th Dec 2008, 12:15

Yeah, it's disgusting. How low can you sink. Apart from the fact, that advertisements like "Byebye SkyEurope" / "Auf Wiedersehen Lufthansa" / "Air Revoir Air France" etc. should be banned, those affected companies should sue MOL. :ouch:

Despite all the hate for his business, I don't wish anything bad to Ryanair either, thinking of all those jobs for fellow pilots. But I do hope MOL will one day pay the price for all this. :mad:

Happy New Year to you, SkyEurope! :)

TBSC

24th Dec 2008, 13:17

On the other hand that FR aircraft gave SkyEurope more (free) publicity than any of their advertisements. :)

PeterPaul

24th Dec 2008, 15:15

captplaystation
the demise of Sky may indeed have a small beneficial effect on any other carrier
if this is true, then it must be true:
"The demise of Ryanair will have a far greater beneficial effect on any other carrier"

and then one is tempted to a toast:
"Skyeurope will outlive Ryanair"
which is all the more probable, day by day.

LAX

24th Dec 2008, 15:44

If your going to take this thread down the RYR bashing road.................. What about Brandson/Virgin with his "No way BA/AA" a few years ago!

goaroundnow

24th Dec 2008, 19:18

I work for SkyEurope. I am not ashamed to say that I and almost all the employees have helped the company in various ways over the past couple of months. Why not - what's the alternative? Possibly lose jobs immediately or help and give hope. Of course none of this is ideal but I really don't see it as anybody else's business. If planes are flying from A-B etc, then what the staff are doing really shouldn't concern anyone else. Starting a thread titled like this seems ridiculous and unnecessary. It may or may not be "bashing" but isn't helping anyone. A concern for "more pilots on the market" is a weak excuse and unbelievable frankly.

IF there was some (and there isn't) suggestion of irregularities in safety etc it may be a worthy point. How the staff are conducting their careers really is not.

I strongly believe there is a future for SkyEurope, one that may not fit into, say Ryanair's plans, but one worth fighting for none the less.

Just for accuracy's sake, most information on here (with regard to SkyEurope) and ppjn is not correct.

JJflyer

24th Dec 2008, 21:03

While I dont work for skyeurope nor do I have an interest in it, I have followed this thread with great interest.

The Ryanair slogan is somewhat tasteless to say the least but fits well to the MOL modus operandi, that is simply ruining the rest of the industry thats left unruined. A vulture howering around a carcass comes into my mind or a hyena nibbling the legs of it's target.

However like someone pointed out, skyeurope did get some free advertisement out of it, wasn't that the word of the day from MOL: "All publicity is good" ?

The BA/AA campaing had nothing tasteless nor was ist questionable. It simply pointed out the standing of Virging in that matter.

Goaroundnow makes a few good points. What the employees decide to agree withing a company their business and their decision. But remember that this is a global business and actions of one group can set a precedent that is hard to break. So it is hardly wrong that people are qurious about what is happening with skyeurope as the next company can be quick to follow in offering half salaries etc in order to cook the books or wanting the balance to look a bit better.

This is a rumour and news network. If the information here is inaccurate it would be very helpful to correct the faulty info rather than simply state that as a fact.

PeterPaul

24th Dec 2008, 21:37

goaroundnow
...a thread titled like this seems ridiculous and unnecessary...
yes ridiculous, but unnecessary is it? Maybe it is helping somepeople
RoyHudd
it could be conceived as public bashing of an operating company from a planted adversary.

people are qurious
With curiosity here goes opinion, persistent opinion is not curiosity anymore.
captplaystation
-working for free for 3 months is a little like believing in the guy with the red coat.
-Good luck I just hope all your unpaid efforts are not rewarded with unemployment.
i.e. ..naive in their loyalty? Is this curiosity?

JJflyer. The title is purposeful, carefully selected, carefully targeted, carefully "documented", not spontaneous. Too many agree. You must not believe in the guy with the red coat.

captplaystation

24th Dec 2008, 21:47

As I stated before, I have no personal interest nor any axe to grind as regards your situation. I was just surprised to read the info on ppjn, and I thought it was best for the pilot community in general to know what you had been asked ,or indeed had imposed ,on you. The info given on post6 as regards salaries would worry me if I was in your position, you obviously have more faith in the financial establishments than I have.
It is good to know on the positive side that people will pull together BUT also on the negative that the company will not think twice to use its employees remuneration to keep the ship afloat. As jjflyer said, other companies with problems will be watching with interest. At least now, other guys have a bit of a heads-up before their company comes to them cap in hand :hmm:
With 180 (more or less) aircraft I don't think anyone in Ryanair is losing sleep whether SkyEurope survive the winter or not BTW. I would say "Arrivederci Alitalia" was a lot more interesting to them.
I hope, once again , your loyalty and cooperation are repaid with future employment security, not with the loss of 2 months of your time having unwittingly worked for nada.
Good luck from your fellow pilots, with whom you share the sky and the enthusiasm for what we do ,whoever we work for. :cool:

PeterPaul

24th Dec 2008, 22:00

captplaystation

You repeat your opinion over and over.

Your message is clearly understood, I assure you.

Nightfire

25th Dec 2008, 06:02

I am a former SkyEurope employee, and although I decided to leave and go elsewhere, in order to pursue my own career-plans, I greatly enjoyed the thing, that SkyEurope is different to anything else.
We often had to do things out of the line, in order to help the company. Quite often (in fact usually), without getting any extra pay for it. It was just like in an aeroclub, where everybody had to participate "hands on", in order to make it work.

How many other airlines like that do you know? I doubt whether pilots in any other European loco company would ever work on their OFF-days, use their private cars for commuting between bases, do voluntary office-work, or stuff like that.
On the other hand, how many parties has your CEO ever organized for you? How many times did your entire crew ever go out together after a flight? Did your flight-ops manager ever put his hand on your shoulder and told you "thankyou, good job!"?

The thing is the entire SkyEurope working-atmosphere. People enjoy being there, even if they also sometimes complain (who doesn't). And right now, the company benefits from the fact that they always treated everybody with respect.

Which is exactly what so many other airlines fail to understand: Only happy employees are good employees. :D

merlinxx

25th Dec 2008, 07:26

Well said Sir:ok:

JJflyer

25th Dec 2008, 08:26

Yes Nightfire. That's all fine and dandy. Everyone should do their fair share of the work and make the company work. When working for a start-up that's the name of the game. SkyEurope is hardly a start-up carrier anymore.

CEO giving a bash to people. Yes well many companies and CEO's have functions like that off duty. 2 companies that I have worked for had several in fact and I know of 10 off hand that do the same. Nice touch from them but hardly relevant to the work one is supposed to do.

There is a BIG but here. Using your own car, working in the office without compensation. I am sorry for sounding cynical or greedy, BUT (and that's the big one) I expect to be paid for my time and compensated for my contribution for the company. If one is not very careful, sooner or later companies will expect crews to participate in tasks other than their job function and it becomes an SOP.

This working for free is in the long run extremely unhealthy for the whole work enviroment and also from a management point of view, it disorts the cost structure of the company and makes budgeting flawed as now a lot of functions are based on "Volunteer" work and cannot be put a value on.

OM-A clearly depicts the responsibilities of crew members and other personnel, contracts set out the payment for different functions and jobs performed such as office work. If the work has not been asked to be performed by the company and it is not part of my job description or I don't get paid to go to the office on my days off flying. Well then I am very sorry. I rather spend it home with my family, friends or out sightseeing. Nor will I take a taxi or use my own car if I know that the company will not reimburse me.
This is not to say that I won't help if it is really needed every now and then but won't do it as a rule.

Treatment of people is another matter altogether. Treat the people like you want to be treated. Every company has the a.hole in the office. It is a must. I guess it is a CAA mandatory requirement. Again it is nice to work in a company where you are treated nicely and in the long run company will work better, employees will stay and do their work better. Alas save money and make a better result.

Commercial flying with some companies might seem just like an Aeroclub BUT (a big one again) it certainly is NOT an aeroclub. Nor should an airline be treated as such.

Nightfire

25th Dec 2008, 09:29

SkyEurope is hardly a start-up carrier anymore.

True. I disagreed many times with the steps that the management has taken in the past. Especially since it is no longer a new company with a certain "startup-credit", their actions were sometimes hard to understand. And often enough they proved to be very wrong. We all know that.

CEO giving a bash to people. Yes well many companies and CEO's have functions like that off duty. 2 companies that I have worked for had several in fact and I know of 10 off hand that do the same. Nice touch from them but hardly relevant to the work one is supposed to do.

Really? Are you sure? I believe that it is a big motivation for everyone.

There is a BIG but here. Using your own car, working in the office without compensation. I am sorry for sounding cynical or greedy, BUT (and that's the big one) I expect to be paid for my time and compensated for my contribution for the company.

Yes, of course. Nobody works for nothing. But as I have already said earlier, it is the positive attitude of employees which keeps that airline going. The other option would be to demand what is rightfully yours, and then find yourself looking for a new place to go to within a few months. We all agree that SkyEurope was expected to go down years ago, and still it has always survived.
A strike of pilots, the Alitalia-way, would mean the certain end now, which is in nobody's interest.

OM-A clearly depicts the responsibilities of crew members and other personnel, contracts set out the payment for different functions and jobs performed such as office work. If the work has not been asked to be performed by the company and it is not part of my job description or I don't get paid to go to the office on my days off flying. Well then I am very sorry. I rather spend it home with my family, friends or out sightseeing.

Yes, but forgive my sarcastic remark: You may suddenly have more time to stay at home with your family than you'd like, in times like these.
Many people that I knew during my time with SKY were of the same opinion, and they all left within weeks or months. Often without even keeping the notification-period for resigning - which, in turn, led to their flights suddenly being distributed among other people's rosters and in the cancelling of their OFF-days.

I remember one time, where volunteers spent the whole night at the airport, after the delivery of four seccond-hand 737-300 aircraft; we had to change labels and stickers all around the planes' cabins, remove old logos, placard new ones, clear out old rubbish, and things like that.
What we got for it, as a reward, was a free breakie from McDonalds, sponsored privately by one of our managers.

Sure, that's not what anyone of us were hired to do, but it was actually good fun - nobody had been forced to participate, the email only said "anybody who would like to help...". What's the problem with that? I actually even found it interesting, to see what kind of papers are required when leasing a plane, and what kind of items were delivered with it. The cargo-compartments were full of surprises.

Commercial flying with some companies might seem just like an Aeroclub BUT (a big one again) it certainly is NOT an aeroclub. Nor should an airline be treated as such.

I agree, and mind you, we were often told just that: "we are NOT a f*ing Aeroclub!" - this sentence usually came when some individuals became too cheeky or bigmouthed.
Most of all, of course, the passengers must not get that impression, but also the rest of staff shouldn't think of it that way.

Nevertheless, my colleagues and I simply enjoyed being there. We learned a damn lot during that time, from which I benefit now in my present job. And it somehow felt just like being in an Aeroclub anyway, despite all we say.

As I already wrote, I left the company when the time had come for me to go. It was the necessary and right thing to do, I left on friendly terms, I still have friends back there, and I often miss those easy times.

I am proud and happy that not even MOL's "evil eye" can bring SkyEurope down. := :)

PeterPaul

25th Dec 2008, 10:43

You missed the point JJflyer. You just missed the whole point. You cannot understand the power of what Nightfire is writing.

I can only say
-Is this true Nightfire ? The spirit of what you are writing?

I wrote that it is unbelievable the loyalty to SkyEurope. If you are honest Nightfire, then an explanation is unfolding. A great explanation. Just to the part of employees. Something that is the desire of every flight crew, JJflyer, not the contrary "in the long run extremely unhealthy". Do not try JJflyer, to echo captplaystation's opinion. Yours is a malevolent effort against an extroardinary business model. M.O'Leary model is not exceptional, it is worn out. The model Nightfire explained is exceptional, extraordinary. You cannot beat it. Do not even try. Just see again what I wrote in my post 18:15 above. Now you can understand why it is inevitable to come true.

Your trying to bring down SkyEurope, JJflyer, simply will not materialize. You will understand, in time, that the spirit Nightfire describes, is simply too strong. Sorry for you.

goaroundnow

25th Dec 2008, 11:22

HAPPY CHRISTMAS

I am not willing to write exactly what is happening within the corridors of SkyEurope. It is confidential and I still believe not totally relevant.

When we were asked to help, it was just that .. a question. We could say no. Some did, most didn't. So other airlines may well be looking on with interest. What is to say, though, that their employees would on the whole agree? What we have and haven't done is certainly not going to dilute terms & conditions for others in the future, if that is a concern.

If any company (and any industry) as a whole is in trouble then cutting off your nose to spite your face isn't helping anyone. Say, for example, SkyEurope had gone bust 2 months ago. Then another seemingly "secure" airline later - those Sky pilots might be further up the queue for the few jobs out there. A slight twist I know: but maybe we have helped in a weird way!! Who would have thought XL or Sterling would go before SkyEurope? At least those pilots haven't got another 160 candidates to fight for work (at the moment!)

If the alternative is almost certain, imminent unemployment then I cannot believe anyone wouldn't be willing to help in the short-term. Especially with the prospect of walking into another job immediately almost non-existent.

As pilots we are in a unique position (well this is how I see it) in that even by working for "free" (which is not what SkyEurope pilots are doing) we are at least gaining something valuable - hours in the log-book. It's not ideal but it's not forever. I am not saying it's sustainable but it's better that being furloughed, i.e. no pay, no hours, nothing to get up for etc.

By the way, SkyEurope is a public company which means a lot of announcements etc are published. You can also track their share price. A small amount of research will show you that a new investor has come forward, has lent money and (according to various newspapers) has plans and ambitions for SkyEurope. They would know all the details of various internal agreements, obviously. They have still proceeded.

captplaystation

25th Dec 2008, 11:33

No matter how strong the spirit ,it is the accountants who decide the fate of any company, to suggest anything else is romantic nonsense. Take off the rose tinted spectacles and come into the real world. An " extraordinary business model" indeed when the employees finance the financial shortfalls.
I have seen this touchy-feely back slapping mentality before in a Belgian company which at the time was cursed with Amarican management ( unfortunately not of the quality of Southwest). All this "camaraderie" was just a smoke screen to get everyone "on-side" so that people would be more mallable. Don't believe for an instant that those in contol of the budget, share your sentamentalism for the company, they would cut you dead , without a cent if they had to,either to save the company or their own asses. . . do you really believe otherwise ? if so you have a lot of learning left to do in life & some of it ain't pretty.
The camaraderie does indeed ( at least for the contributors here , but perhaps not all the employees ? ) seems real enough, but I doubt if the characters in charge at the top are significantly different to anywhere else.
You can classify that as cynicism or realism as you wish.

If I keep repeating myself Peter Paul it is because you and several others seem to be completely unable to understand that I don't wish you anything but the best.
As always I also suggest you keep your eyes open and don't confuse helping someone with being manipulated. Things you agree to do "exceptionally" have an unfortunate habit of becoming "accepted practice" and you will then be accused (like the RYR pilots frequently are) of helping to set the bar lower for what are generally accepted norms.

maybepilot

25th Dec 2008, 11:35

The spirit you are talking about is the same spirit you could find in Fischer Air or Tatra Air (where many of you guys come from) and we've all seen how the story ends.
There are many examples across the industry of loyal employees who work on days off or who do extra duties for nothing but unfortunately, as the companies grew in size, this "family model" stopped working as the big effort of the employees was directly proportional to the money the companies were loosing.

Having said that i wish all of you guys all the best even if, seen from the outside, it doesn't look very promising.

PeterPaul

25th Dec 2008, 12:25

So, at last, the true nature of posting this title of the thread, has finally came out. as suspected earlier by many. As the same is happening in so many other forums, against SkyEurope.

Why do you all SkyEurope bashers, not take it for sure that your (specific one) employer will be bankrupt soon? Do you not read the late news?

Won't you be on the wrong side then? And no more salary for posting?

skyeuropilot

25th Dec 2008, 12:45

I believe the crews are mature enough to understand the consequences of their job sudden loss .
However some believe in SKYeurope because it is a great outfit to work and the crews are fantastic to fly with.

Some have left because they didnt believe we may overcome these difficult times and i dont blame them and some left because that other airline offered him/her more.

But for the ones staying, we are fighting by giving all we have,concessions,working professionally and all with a great smile not because we are forced too but because we value our work!:ok:

I bet on SKyeurope.

I have very strong gut feeling we ll make it just fine:O

Time will tell..

maybepilot

25th Dec 2008, 12:58

One thing is for sure: salaries MUST be paid on time just as the crews show up for duty on time.

People have kids, school fees,mortgages,cars loans and other BASIC needs that need to be taken care of.
An airline should at least be able to provide this kind of BASIC financial security for its emloyees regardless of spirit, and if i'm not mistaken it'a also an EU financial regulatory requirement.

captplaystation

25th Dec 2008, 13:11

PeterPaul, could I just point out A - this thread has nothing whatsoever to do with Ryanair, so stop muddying the waters and trying to find machievellian reasons for the thread ,or the title of the thread. I could explain to you why, in relation to my circumstances, but it is none of your business.
B - I don't think your understanding of English ( or the subtelties contained within ) really allow you to pass comment on my (or indeed others such as jjflyer's ) contributions. In short, as we say, I think you have the wrong end of the stick, and are trying too hard to "prove" your interpretation of the reason for this thread at the expense of trying to understand what we are saying. Still, your English is still 1000 times better than my Greek ;)

goaroundnow, our posts crossed and as I reviewed mine yours was arriving. Rest assured that your attitude will stand you in good stead for the future, even if in a worst case scenario it ultimately fails to save your company. I hope you are not being taken advantage ,of but at least worst comes to worst you can say " well at least I personally did all I could to save my position". I totally agree, better to accept concessions to try and continue with something you enjoy than to throw your toys out the pram & have no job
as practiced by Sabena Alitalia and all the other dinosaurs.

JJflyer

25th Dec 2008, 13:15

Dear PeterPaul

It appears that Queens english is not your native language, it is not mine either. However this in mind urge you to read my posts very carefully again and you might find that I have absolutely no desire to bring down SkyEurope. I have not bashed SkyEurope in any way or have I? Nor do I like the business model of Ryanair or MOL in particular.

You seem to mix business model and WORK ENVIROMENT two totally different areas.

So be a nice chap and forget the godly revelations, Malevolance (What a fine word),magic and great explanations for a sec and have a look at my previous posts on the subject. You might find that I quite understand nightfire is talking about.

Just to put it straight. I don't work for SkyEurope, nor do I want to. I know people that work there or have worked. I do NOT wish that they go out of business and I don't want to see anyone unepmloyed. I hope the best for them. Does this make it clear???? I simply commented the issue about work conditions and salaries.

I need a beer now. End of information "Juliet"

PeterPaul

25th Dec 2008, 14:30

Hello, the twins! (You are not related, are you).

I didn't think that dexterity in language is an obstacle in understanding of meanings, I thought just the opposite.

BTW, what is your native language? Or this
captplaystation
or the subtelties contained within
proves something?

OK now, you can inform supervisors "sidestepping the issue, not successful".

Down to the real issue here.

I read in press that posting in forums is marketed at US$ 10-20 per post. Do you think it's fair? If you are really interested, I can give you links (or you never knew this exists, eh?).

Sorry I cannot write you similar majestically inspired comments as other flight crew members have done here, to counter professional dull posting.

JJflyer

25th Dec 2008, 15:09

ICAO level 4?

captplaystation

25th Dec 2008, 16:13

Me, I give up. I think those that work for SkyEurope, & jjflyer, know what I meant. Life is apparently too short to express myself correctly for everyone to understand. :ugh:

Incidentaly Peter Paul, if we are talking hidden agendas, all of your posts (and at 13 there aren't so many of them) are either Ryanair bashing or defending SkyEurope with a bit of Ryanair bashing mixed in for good measure . So what tell, am I to make of your motivation for joining this debate. As a pilot working in the low cost environment I know my interest, perhaps you would like to justify yours. As I said it makes absolutely no difference to my life what happens to Sky, I would be sad to see people losing their jobs, as I would be with any company closing down, but pray, what exactly is your motivation here if we are talking Sky ? or is just an excuse to start yet another "MOL is the devil incarnate" thread.

skyeuropilot

25th Dec 2008, 16:14

I think it is SAD that other airlines crews or people who are interested in aviation start discussions such as this one.

As pointed out, it only affects negatively the people directly concerned (Skyeurope and employees).
An argument was that it is bad for the industry as a whole if one airline doesnt pay their crews on time..as others may do the same.
Well others do , others are forcing pilots to take unpaid leave(skyeurope doesnt), some make you pay for your type rating (skyeurope doesnt),some make their pilots change base as they wish while the crews are paying for the hotel bills(skyeurope doesnt),some airlines make the pilots PAY to register their CV(Skyeurope doesnt),some airlines furloughed pilots since the summer(Skyeurope hasnt) and i can go on and on..

The point is im trying to make is that threads like this arent helping the industry nor your fellow crews, or even you if qualified crews join the market of job search and believe me many have JAR licences..ready to take the job in your country.

This will be my last post here since by writing in this thread makes it even more viewed by the public.

I believe our passengers are satisfied with our service and i thank nightfire for his earlier comments.

Merry XMAS:O

captplaystation

25th Dec 2008, 16:40

skyeuropepilot,
When threads are started pointing out all the bad things Ryanair have done, Ryanair pilots don't come on here asking it be swept under the carpet, because we are loyal & only helping the company etc etc. On the contrary most of us prefer this info is available to anyone looking to join so they can make an informed choice whether they wish to join & accept this regime, or otherwise. By trying to stifle debate you just enflame it, as people wonder why you don't want it known what is going on. Me I think it is sad you want it hidden, can you imagine the outcry if Ryanair paid late & we all came on here and denied it ?
You can say it isn't our business, well, none of us truly knows when we will next need a new job and I believe it is fair to know what companies get up to . If this website can facilitate this all well and good, if it is totally untrue how come some have said well it's not completely true/ not quite like that etc.
We can read reviews (if we choose) of everything in life before commiting, a potential employer should be no different. Hiding the bad news doesn't make it go away.

maybepilot

25th Dec 2008, 17:04

Skyeuropepilot,

incidentally i know a few guys who worked for Sky both as Capt.'s and F/O's, they are from different nationalities including locals (czechs or slovaks) and are now working elsewhere for different outfits.
Well the stories they tell are a bit different from the "perfect world" you are picturing and range from low salaries (when paid on time that is), to positioning taxi rides from BTS to KRK with 6 people stuffed in car for 5, to substandard hotels booked in the middle of nowhere close to the BTS airport,to pretty lousy flying practeces (I still laugh recalling the story of that instructor called "the cobra" due to his famous maneuver during a G/A resembling the one made by the russian fighter pilots during flight displays) and so on....
Not really an airline that can set standards.

P.S.: when you talk about moving people from base to base are you referring to RYR or to your own outfit with the KRK or BUD bases?

goaroundnow

25th Dec 2008, 17:11

Despite all this don't you think that the SkyEurope airplanes are pretty?!!

captplaystation ... thanks for your praise.

I don't think this thread is "bashing" SkyEurope. I am not sure there's much to bash. In terms of business they are really not a threat to Ryanair, EasyJet etc..

All airlines do things differently. That includes, I suppose, how they cope with problems. Unpaid for leave, for example, might mean not working for free but it still means no income for a month. SkyEurope might pay for type ratings (God knows why - they wouldn't need to to find pilots) but that hasn't exactly contributed postively to their bottom line!!

We really cannot compare except that the airlines mentioned here are generally "low-cost."

I will repeat again, though, I strongly believe that nothing that has gone at SkyEurope recently; i) will affect others in the long run or ii) is anything new (in this industry.)

I am just going to add this (as an edit) in response to the post above. I really don't think we need to start going down the road of critiscm of SkyEurope. I am sure you can find equally "bad" stories from almost all airlines. I am not sure these (that you refer to) are true but one thing definitely is; with regards to flight safety there is NOTHING wrong with SkyEurope and it would be very unfair to suggest otherwise.

skyeuropilot

25th Dec 2008, 17:13

Captplaystation,

I just think SAD that pilots write these kind of posts whether it is against skyeurope , ryan air , Jet2 bust (pilots did ask the thread to be removed)or any other airline...
I didnt say it should be hidden or not written.i do believe in freedom of speach:-) but such info is irrelevant to any person even in these times since you must understand sky europe isnt hiring,and it is the first time skyeurope ever delayed the salaries.(due to the earlier difficult financial situations).

I dont agree with threads against ryan air eventhough i wouldnt like to fly for them for what his boss is representing(ie byebye skyeurope/air italia).I HAVE NOTHING against ryan employees, i have friends working for them.but some of my example came from ryan air wrong doings ..maybe because of the same freedom of speech :hmm:

However i dont believe the thread was started about #Skyeurope Terms and conditions#...but many can interpret this in many ways..

captplaystation

25th Dec 2008, 17:18

goaroundnow,
yes definitely much easier on the eye than the cr@p written on the side of the blue & yellow ones. Everytime I was in BTS it was only the "standard" colour scheme parked on the apron. Never got to see the one with Adriana or Miss Slovakia? ( the 2nd cute one)
maybepilot
6 people crammed into a car designed for 5. . . . . Hmn having seen your CC that sounds just fine as long as I can get the middle seat in the back & the F/O stays in the front with the driver. ;)

skyeuropepilot, I am running out of words to convince you (and it IS my native language) no bad intentions intended, honestly,

Happy Christmas and all good wishes for 2009.

goaroundnow

25th Dec 2008, 17:22

See it's the attitude that would make you fit nicely into SkyEurope!

skyeuropilot

25th Dec 2008, 17:32

Maybepilot,

A pilot named cobra??tell me more..havent heard that one..please if you are not working in skyeurope keep your stories for the pub.I am not interested.

Low salaries?5 years ago maybe. FOs have 3-4000 euros net ,captains from 6 to 9000 euro net depending on credited hours and hours flown.training cobras even more.:E

KRK and BUD bases dont exist anymore.Only transport to vienna with very nice limousine service:-)mercedes that is..
The hotel booked in BTS (****ty place i admit) BUT was paid by the company for pilots who just arrived after being succesful at the interview..they had the choice to pay the CARLTON if they wished so.
Do low costs airlines we are talking about pay you anything more than the salary when you come to your new base? a temporary change of base from the employment contract paid 600 euros/month on top of the first 2 weeks of paid hotel to allow time to find a proper accomodation.
When the crews had to fly from warsaw , we were staying at the Airport Marriot,in Krakow(holiday INN) and in BUdapest i forgot the name but it had sauna and swimming pool..far from a penzion:-)

Concerning MAYBEPILOT s comment about skyeurope inability to set flying standards is idioistic especially when you have never flown here.But that tells me a lot from you and im not interested to further on this.:ugh:

Captplaystation..i know and merry xmas to you and all:-)

captplaystation

25th Dec 2008, 17:33

goaroundnow
Always open to a good offer :ok:
All the best, we crossed posts again, busy adding to my previous effort :rolleyes:
P.S, give my best regards to Jacob Jonker ( if he did indeed come back to you from RYR ) I'm the Scottish one in GRO.

Nightfire

25th Dec 2008, 17:58

Well the stories they tell are a bit different from the "perfect world" you are picturing and range from low salaries (when paid on time that is), to positioning taxi rides from BTS to KRK with 6 people stuffed in car for 5, to substandard hotels booked in the middle of nowhere close to the BTS airport,

I don't deny it, some of the hotels were sometimes not the best. For example, if the "Kamila" in BTS was booked out, an alternate had to be found, and in BTS there was not really much choice of quality hotels. But it was never "bad" - not always 5*, but definitely acceptable. Mind you, we also got very good hotels sometimes.
Depending also on the circumstances. For example, in Praha I preferred to stay in a cheap (but clean) pension just five walking minutes from the simulator, rather than having to ride a taxi for 45 minutes each way in the middle of the night.

I can't say anything about the overloaded Taxis. Maybe that happened, I don't know, it never happened to me.

As for the low salaries and all, well, I can speak for myself and probably for dozens of other guys meanwhile, who were taken as low-timers and beginners. We got our chance from SkyEurope during a time, where no other company would even bother to answer my applications with a "no". SkyEurope took me anyway, and I bet you my (on-time-paid) salary of this month, that right now again very many people would be delighted to join the Sky-team.

The normal thing was that salaries always arrived on time, and it will continue to be the normal thing. As long as those planes continue to fly, SkyEuropeans will make their living.

to pretty lousy flying practeces (I still laugh recalling the story of that instructor called "the cobra" due to his famous maneuver during a G/A resembling the one made by the russian fighter pilots during flight displays) and so on....

Well, first of all, where did you get that information? "Pretty lousy practices" is a bit vague, do you mean they can't fly properly? Yet I passed every screening that I went to in the meantime, and all my ex-colleague First Officers from that time are now Captains. We all learned our stuff by flying the blue&white coloured 737s. Being trained, supervised and checked from other boys, who also made their careers there.

Excuse me if I'm being nostalgic, but compared to Air Berlin, SkyEurope was paradise. And I really mean that.

Not really an airline that can set standards.

Says who, those guys whom you just mentioned? Or from what you heard of elsewhere?
So which other airline will set standards for everyone else then? Don't forget, this is a Low Cost carrier, so compare it not with Emirates, Cathay Pacific or American Airlines. Mind you, they are all in their own difficulties right now, too.

I'm absolutely sure those Captains and First Officers whom you know benefited very well from SkyEurope during the time that they were there - they probably did not mention that to you, did they.
Where did that Captain presumeably get his upgrading, and how much did he earn per month during the last summer of 2008?
With how many hours did the First Oficer join at that time, and how long was his bondage, in return for his training? Zero, by any chance?

maybepilot

25th Dec 2008, 18:00

skyeuropepilot,

This will be my last post here since by writing in this thread makes it even more viewed by the public.

But that tells me a lot from you and im not interested to further on this.

The above comments tell alot about you my dear friend...you should have not posted here again since you "are not interested"....instead you are still here and seem very interested.
Given your interest I will give you a couple more hints on 'the cobra": what about a go around made in Bergamo by Capt. Kal....?
KRK and BUD were closed and crews HAD to move alsewhere WITHOUT choice, then when Hungarian crews were to live in BTS there even were racist issues felt by some.
As far as the numbers you have given they are strangely higher than what i have been told by people who left this past summer and who were making considerably less than what you say.
By the way one of the training cobras (one of the highest in the hierarchy scale) is an old friend of mine and he's making around 8-9k in a good month.....if at all paid of course.

Hey skypilot, no bad feelings in the end i have sympathy for you guys.
A bit less for those who don't pay their employees.

Wizofoz

25th Dec 2008, 18:13

I doubt whether pilots in any other European loco company would ever work on their OFF-days, use their private cars for commuting between bases, do voluntary office-work, or stuff like that.

-And was this extra office duty and commuting out of base counted as Duty for the purpose of Maximum duty limits, required rest and day off purposes?

If not, saftey WAS being breached in the name of ecconomic expediency.

goaroundnow

25th Dec 2008, 18:26

This has really got off point.

Surely we are not going to get on the Hungarian Crew and racism thing again.

All airlines have bad pilots and incidents.

We could mention pilots flying into mountains, losing spatial awareness or more recently landing at the wrong airport etc. It happens. If the worse thing that SkyEurope can report (or be gossiped about) is a dodgy go-around then they can't be doing too badly.

Like I said before it's unfair to report on these things, it really could give SkyEurope a very undeserved bad name (for safety) ... and all because somebody asked about salaries. How are the two connected?

Any base transfer, extra work I have done etc HAS been counted as duty. It hows clearly on my roster. In fact, when I have asked to have rest reduced so that I can fly what I want and not have my roster disrupted (due slight delays etc) it has been an emphatic NO from crew control (even for the sake of 5 minutes.) So, thanks for trying to plant another seed of "safety" doubt into people's minds but it doesn't happen at SkyEurope. Safety is not compromised!

Finally, to answer the thread "skyeurope no salaries? true or false?" FALSE

Nightfire

25th Dec 2008, 18:28

Maybe you sometimes did not spend all your rest-time in bed yourself either, but went out and did some other stuff, then slept for five hours before going on an early-morning flight on a day with four sectors?

Come on, don't be ridiculous. Whatever people decide to do during their own time is nobody else's business. Whether you do sports, take care of your children, do some urgent businesses around town, lie in bed or sit in an office is up to you. I never violated my maximum duty time ever, in my whole life.

Are you just trying to find some problem here?

Anyway, I said all that I had to say about SkyEurope. Go on and rant about it if you like. I regret nothing.

captplaystation

25th Dec 2008, 18:28

wizofoz
I think you will find that many management pilots do office duties that are never recorded anywhere in much bigger carriers than SkyEurope, & tacitly accepted this when they took the position.
As for commuting between bases, how many pilots do it voluntarily in their own time to live where they want & say nothing. Anyway, is it really any different to a guy stuck in his car for two hours trying to go from one side of London to the other on the M25 because he chooses to live there.
Anyway this is a whole different subject, and if these guys volunteered to do it, they felt OK with it, and OK to do it. We are all big boys hopefully, and don't volunteer for something that compromises our rest / ability to do our rostered duties.

maybepilot

25th Dec 2008, 18:42

How are the two connected?

There's a nice article on FSF's december issue of aerosafety world about job insecurity where you can read how much are things connected in our business.
If SkyEurope doesn't give you copies of it then you can get them HERE (http://www.flightsafety.org/asw/dec08/asw_dec08_p46-49.pdf)

captplaystation

25th Dec 2008, 18:57

Any "external" problem has an effect on our ability to concentrate 100% on the job, be it job insecurity marital problems or 1001 other things. . . it is, what is loosely termed. . . life. The secret is to recognise that something is on your mind, confide in your colleague if it is preying on your mind too much, or if it really is that much of a distraction, go sick. This takes some people ( I am one example) years to realise, but it is very important. Do NOT fly if you can't forget your ground-borne problems & concentrate on ( & enjoy:ok: ) your flying.
The guys who have taken positive action in helping the company are probably less at risk than the ones who are slouching around with slumped shoulders complaining all the while ( in my opinion anyway) as they are directing their negative feelings in a positive direction.

skyeuropilot

25th Dec 2008, 20:06

maybepilot,

Your supposedly old friend is not a training captain nor a TRI/TRE.(if he said that he lied to his supposedly friend,you that is) hence his salary of 8-9000 euro net/months.Yes he has seniority as he had a managerial position a few years ago.I know who he is and I am not to comment about his pilot abilities which is concerning himself and his examiners.
Most of the hungarians crews are based in Vienna and they are doing just fine,the vienna base captain is hungarian.A very nice man.So hard to call for any kind of tensions..racism?:ugh::mad:
Anyways, I wish you all nice and safe flights and a good session of PC sim session to maybepilot.:E

Now I am really done:suspect:

maybepilot

25th Dec 2008, 20:30

skypilot,

i am way too old to make up stories.
You, on the other hand, are obviously way too young and naive to be able to see the difference between an airline and a football team since your passion seems to be obscuring reality just like it does for football fans.
But being young and naive is part of life especially when you start a career in aviation so enjoy it while it lasts.

skyeuropilot

25th Dec 2008, 20:39

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

PeterPaul

25th Dec 2008, 21:04

Come on guys, is this not enough?

Masks are exposed, what is the meaning of continuing this thread under this deliberately planted silly title
SkyEurope no salaries? true or false?

captplaystation

25th Dec 2008, 21:13

as skyeuropepilot would say

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

those of us with something to say have spoken, and I believe if you read what has happened while you were gone, generally understood each other ( well with one outstanding exception)
Please don't come back on here and stir up the sh1t.
Answer my previous question to you if you will, or if you have nothing useful to add go back to your Xmas dinner / sleep or whatever.

maybepilot

25th Dec 2008, 21:16

skypilot,

I know very well what a TRI/TRE makes at Sky (remember that in the west we talk net and not gross) as I also know many other things but I don't want this discussion to become an issue between the 2 of us because nobody is actually interested.

Your nickname says it all on your neutral viewpoints....all part of the young and naive pilot's life at his first experience.
Again, enjoy it while it lasts!

Maybe the title wasn't 100% appropriate, fact is that salaries are being paid late which in my little experience is the first sign of something worse to come.

captplaystation

25th Dec 2008, 21:32

As it's Christmas & I care about your feelings I have changed the title on my first post. Unfortunately this doesn't change the title on the forum index, only the mods can do that.

If you take the trouble to read my initial post, you will find I said
" Personally I sincerely hope what is posted on ppjn is NOT true"
And that I think summerises it nicely.

TBSC

25th Dec 2008, 21:55

SkyEurope no salaries? true or false?

Some of them definitely got their october salary only last week.

captplaystation

26th Dec 2008, 10:00

You will be interested to know that is 1300e a month more than a Capt on a full time non UK contract (with the fall in the pound probably the same now in UK) earns in the "low fares high salaries :hmm: " airline.
Is that figure for full-time/contract or both ?
Are all non local Capt's contract ,or full time also offered.
See, I told you my interest was positive not negative. :ok:

Edited to say that is based on the (deleted) figure of 8300, so 7000 with Air O' Leary.
skyeuropepilot, are you worried your girlfriend/wife (or both ;) ) reads this & you told her you "only" earn 6000 ? ? :rolleyes: :=

aviaticus

26th Dec 2008, 15:48

I have been there, I have seen it all, and I know that for many aviation guys is hard to believe it. But the history of commercial aviation in this area has another roots. This is probably the reason why their founders decided to start it there, in a first place. The thruth is, it would be nice to see SkyEurope flying on and on as long as it could that way. Only if there would not be the world economy crises, that just does not help this way of doing things any more. I whish that Skyeuropeans do a miracle and win the battle of surviving against all odds, esspacialy the economic rules. If they succeed the Aviation economy books would have to add a New chapter for the future students to learn from it.:rolleyes:

Best whishes to all of You guys there. Leonidas was also defending Sparta against Persia and fall dead while diong it, but got famous and became a legend. But with a litlle bit more luck...?

Fight for it because it is worth of it, especially if You do not have to loose anything:ok:.

Best luck in a PF to come to All of You :O

RoyHudd

26th Dec 2008, 16:19

Moderator, do your job and modify the title. Any posting along the lines of "xxx going bust", etc may end up a self-fulfilling prophecy if the media gets hold of it. Like it or not, pprune is part of the media now.

PeterPaul

26th Dec 2008, 16:52

Any posting along the lines of "xxx going bust", etc may end up a self-fulfilling prophecy

Why one needs to be very clever to understand this simple, plain truth?

PeterPaul

26th Dec 2008, 16:56

captplaystation
skyeuropepilot, are you worried your girlfriend/wife (or both ) reads this & you told her you "only" earn 6000 ? ?

Disgusting. Makes me sick. Cannot say anything else for such comments.

captplaystation

26th Dec 2008, 17:19

Like I said to you before, you may write quite well in English. but you DON'T understand it, and quite obviously don't understand English humour. :confused:
And BTW you still haven't answered the question I asked you in post No 44 :hmm:.
You seem to be in a minority of 1 here that doesn't understand what we are saying. All the Sky guys seem to get it, you obviously don't, maybe time to leave it alone if your only contribution is to repeat "you have to be clever to see the hidden meaning etc etc etc" Well you are obviously the only one clever enough to understand (even though surely I of all people should know my own reason for starting the thread . . .or I suppose you know my mind better than me :rolleyes:) So, as you have now understood everything := you could happily leave and save wasting our time trying to understand YOU.

kick the tires

26th Dec 2008, 18:22

captplaystation - give it up, you have become tiresome.

captplaystation

26th Dec 2008, 19:03

And Peter Paul ? No, I assume. What is tiresome is people trying to question the (at least partially) valid reason for the threads existence, or cloak it as something it isn't.
Read post No 3 & 6, they were not posted by me.
It is also fairly tiresome to read a post by someone who can only offer by way of contribution to the debate "you have become tiresome". You are not obliged to read the thread, nor post, if that is all you have to offer.

Sorry, taking the time to read your "previous" you appear to be ex AIR FARCE( & ever so slightly anti Ryanair ) what I should have responded with is "Yes Sir" & I bow to your evidently greater knowledge ,social standing, education, and above all flying ability. :rolleyes:

Nightfire

26th Dec 2008, 19:13

Guys, can we close this thread now? It's going nowhere anymore, all has been said. No use throwing dirt at each other - for what.

goaroundnow

26th Dec 2008, 19:25

For entertainment, if nothing else!!

Just joking!

capt ... I also have never really encountered someone who seems to be able to construct the language but actually not understand one word of it!

captplaystation

26th Dec 2008, 20:19

goaroundnow,
thanks for confirming what I felt :ok: on that note I am going to finish.
For the avoidance of doubt, I wish you well in Sky, I really really hope your spirit is rewarded by continued secure employment, but take care of YOU first & foremost because accountants don't always have the same sentimentality as us stupid romantic pilots. If your company does make some money, please ask them to continue painting the aircraft in "special" schemes :ok:

It is dissapointing sometimes to have people question your motives particularly when they don't know your actual circumstances. The pilots from Sky who have contributed here sound like the sort of people I would appreciate to work with. . . I wish you, and all in my profession the best. It is not because the Boss of RYR is viewed as some sort of Shark with horns on his head that all of his employees are of the same mentality. We are all, more or less , in the same crap in this profession, but some are so paranoid that they see everyone not in their camp as some parisitic alien just waiting for them to go bust. Nothing could be further from the truth. When a company goes bust it is the same as an accident, anyone with a modicum of imagination thinks "phew there but for the grace of God."

Happy landings (the same number of them as the T/O's unless you like parachuting :eek:) and many of them, for 2009, hope that this time next year we are all still employed.

alexmcfire

26th Dec 2008, 20:44

So when people fly for non/delayed paying airlines, is the hours under your belt on the aircraft important or is about loyalty?

kick the tires

26th Dec 2008, 21:07

Agreed, lets have this thread closed, it shouldnt of been started in the first place.

AT a time when there are so many failures such a thread is pure mischief making. The title says it all.

It wouldnt suprise me if playstation was the one who suggested the dispicable logo on that RYR airframe!

captplaystation

26th Dec 2008, 21:25

Post 3 & Post 6, the end of the second paragraph on post 19, and on a personal note, the end of post 78.
Good night, don't forget spell-check after a few glasses.

kick the tires

26th Dec 2008, 22:48

on that note I am going to finish. not quite eh?

babemagnet

9th Jan 2009, 15:47

Troubled central European budget carrier SkyEurope Airlines (http://www.skyeurope.com/en/about-us/about-skyeurope-airlines.aspx) has had six of its aircraft taken back by US lessor GE Commercial Aviation Services (GECAS) (http://www.gecas.com/), although the airline says it has struck two financial deals and is continuing to operate.
Last month SkyEurope said it was working to resolve a payment default with GECAS which, according to Flight's ACAS database, owns most of its 14 Boeing 737-700 aircraft.
Today SkyEurope says GECAS terminated the lease of six aircraft with effect from 8 January. It adds: "The aircraft have been returned to GECAS. The aircraft capacity has been replaced and SkyEurope continues to operate all scheduled flights

SkyEuroFrequentFlyer

8th Mar 2009, 20:49

Hello all,

Have been busy reading through all your contributions trying to figure out what the future DOES (or doesn't) hold for good old SkyEurope.

I was one of the many who experienced lack of planes coming back to the UK after X-mas this year in Jan. Flew with some Croatian plane instead, running a couple of hours late, etc. Have to say, I didn't mind, as long as I got to the other side safely. (Was a bit of an Indiana Jones plane:})

However, what does this mean? Will all of the beautiful SkyEurope planes go, and with them the company name with it just simply ceasing to exist? Or is it just getting worse before it gets better?

Anyone got any helpful statistics, answers, reports? Please, do let me know, I am a very frequent SkyEurope flyer, (but that's all I am, a simple student, no pilot, no air-stewardess) plus these things obviously aren't publicly published on the official SkyEurope website, hence am feeling a little clueless...

Thank you for any contributions... :rolleyes:

Regards

Bluebat_CZ

8th Jun 2009, 13:18

Hello,

Facts concerning the current situation at Sky Europe:
1) The company still owes its employees some salaries from 09/2008 (now we have 06/2009, so it is over 9 months that the salaries are not fully paid). For the vast majority of flight crews the amounts owed by the company are around 50% from each monthly salary beginning from 09/2008!

2) Salaries for 10/2009 - the same applies as above. To this day the vast majority of the employees have not received the 10/2008 salaries in full (still about 50% owed by the company). The 50% of the 10/2008 salary that was already paid has been paid in the second half of 12/2008.

3) At the initiative of the management, the employees were asked to defer 50% of their 09/2008 and 10/2008 salaries until 03/2009 and 04/2009, respectively. So I have to say, that the employees have voluntarily agreed not to receive the full salaries for 09/2008 and 10/2008 at that time, provided they will receive the deferred amounts in the spring of 2009. Obviously those deferred salaries have not been paid to the employees to this day as agreed. Employees have made the decision (to defer parts of their salaries) back in 2008 when they had absolutely no idea that all of the subsequent salaries will be also deferred against their will and that the deferred payment will not be paid-out to them for as long as 06/2009.

4) Salary for 11/2008 - not paid out at all. Salary for 12/2008 paid in full, sometime at the end of January once the employee unrest and their pressure on the management started to build-up. Hence, we can say that for the months of 11/2008 and 12/2008 on average again only 50% were paid-out.

5) Starting with 01/2009 the company informed its employees that a new payment scheme is being implemented (obviously without even trying to obtain the consent of the employees). The strange scheme consists of the company's attempt to pay-out 50% of the monthly salary of each employee in 4 installments - basically amounting to 1/8th of the salary being paid every week, as the cash flow (passengers pre-paying the tickets for the summer season) permits. The payments arrive on the employee's bank accounts with a relatively high degree of irregularity of +/- several days, sometimes a week is skipped, etc... However, it is true that this scheme allowed a little bit of stabilization and allowed at least a minimum degree of financial predictability in terms of earnings for the employees. Second issue is, that the amounts paid to employees in some cases of the regular cabin-crews amounted to as little as < hundred euros a week.

6) Therefore, those that are hit by the situation the most are the cabin crews, who are forced to live on 1/8th of their salary a week. Payments of per-diems, that form a significant portion of the salaries of the cabin-crews are of course not getting paid for severals moths at a time (last info that I had from last week is that 01/2009 per-diems have not been paid yet).

7) Due to the fact that the company was not fulfilling its financial obligations to its employees many experienced people have left the company, especially the cabin-crews. Unfortunately they had no possibility to take a loan from their parents or the bank to carry-on with their job. The company solved this by hiring new cabin-crews and running them through an accelerated course. Upgrades to Pursers are being made from people, that would otherwise not have a chance to be upgraded considering their relatively loew total experience for a Purser position.

8) Last Wednesday (03-June) the company organized an official ceremonious event here in Prague, during which the latest cabin crew course has been welcomed into the company. I think it is a really nice thing to do for the new employees, but only if it took place for example in the company's office, considering the company's current financial situation. But no, instead it was hosted in one of the most expensive restaurants in Prague's downtown on the Kampa island! So the company claims not to have money to pay the employees, while at the same time it is hosting a party in a very expensive luxury restaurant, sticking to old motto of the CEO (Jason Bitter) "Do not worry, company pays..."...

9) Just to illustrate the level of the salaries issue - some cabin crew employees are owed amounts in the scope of >4.000 Euro/person, while many pilots are owed salaries in the amounts of >30.000 Euso/person! It basically coemes down to the fact, that most of the crews are getting only 50% of their salaries beginning from 09/2008!

Facts concerning the overall situation:
1) Debts wherever one looks. Employee salaries owed for over 9 months of operations; almost 2.5mil Euros owed to the Slovak Government in social security payments the company is required to deduct from the employee salaries; >1mil Euros owed to customers in ticket refunds due to canceled flights and I do not even try to guess the amounts owed to Eurocontrol and to individual airports for the landing and handling fees. Companies that are owed large sums of money by Sky Europe, as well as former employees who are still unpaid, have already started preparing legal steps to send the company into bankruptcy sooner than the management thinks. Articles in the Czech and Slovak media are starting to appear, shedding more light on the company's situation and starting to count the endless amounts of the company's unpaid debts: Veritele uhani SkyEurope, dluzi miliony korun - iDNES.cz / Creditors are hunting-down Sky Europe - being owed millions of Czech Crowns (http://ekonomika.idnes.cz/veritele-uhani-skyeurope-dluzi-miliony-korun-f4k-/ekoakcie.asp?c=A090604_1201519_ekoakcie_pin)

2) The crews are intelligent people, therefore most of them can put 2 and 2 together. Once they did that and open their eyes to the facts and to the behavior of the management, they realize that there is not a chance Sky will survive beyond this summer season without the help of an outside investor. Now tell me who would want to invest in a company with assets of approx. MINUS 100 million Euros. This does not add to the motivation of the crews and the overall mood inside the company is quite dull.

3) I have to admit that the management did a good job in handling the crisis that arose due to the leasing company repossession of 6 NG beginning of this year. However, the airplanes that are slowly replacing the wet-leased ones (following the repossession of 6 NGs by GECAS) are in most cases 20-year old pieces that were scrambled by the company from the desert storage in the US - pieces that were already discarded from the fleet of United Airlines. The company does not even deal with such issues that they still keep the US setup of the on-board systems - everything is in pounds instead in kilograms, including the FMS masses and FUEL gauges. When pilots are used to operate in kilograms on one airplane and in pounds on another one, it does not add to the overall safety levels of operations. Especially with the crews being under s lot of constant stress during the last 9 months of operations - constantly worrying how much of their salary they will receive this time; if they will be able to pay their mortgage; how long will this situation carry on, etc...

4) Mass exodus of qualified crew members - both flight and cabin. In March the company saw a resignation of the PRG Base Chief Captain and the Chief of the Cabin Crews, followed by the resignation of the company's Chief Pilot in April - well, I would not want to have their responsibility for the miss-management of the company on my shoulders either.

skyeuropecapt

9th Jun 2009, 14:16

Please see my answer in the ROUTE Forum SKYEUROPE.
Bluebat....If i were you i would use your last 10 UNFIT days in a more constructive way..flying your pa 38 for example or look for another job.
I understand the situation is hard but please dont write false information, it doesnt help your case nor your colleagues who are still working.

Bluebat_CZ

10th Jun 2009, 12:51

To Skyeuropecapt:

I understand that you may feel unhappy about my previous post. However, I stand very firm behind all of my claims. I have not mentioned a single false piece of information!

1) As you have admitted yourself, the information concerning the salaries is all true.

2) The information posted by me concerning the replacement classics was limited to the statement of several facts. I did not elaborate further than those facts:

the airplanes that are slowly replacing the wet-leased ones (following the repossession of 6 NGs by GECAS) are in most cases 20-year old pieces that were scrambled by the company from the desert storage in the US - pieces that were already discarded from the fleet of United Airlines. The company does not even deal with such issues that they still keep the US setup of the on-board systems - everything is in pounds instead in kilograms, including the FMS masses and FUEL gauges. When pilots are used to operate in kilograms on one airplane and in pounds on another one, it does not add to the overall safety levels of operations. Especially with the crews being under s lot of constant stress during the last 9 months of operations - constantly worrying how much of their salary they will receive this time; if they will be able to pay their mortgage; how long will this situation carry on, etc...

As you can see from my post I have not used the word "junk" or "dangerous" or "unsafe". I have merely said that some of them have been pulled out of the desert storage - is this a false statement in your opinion? The fact if I have flown these airplanes or not is completely irrelevant of the facts that I have stated.

As far as the pound system - did I say that the crews are lost and can not cope with it? Did I say anything false? Again, I do not think so. Since you have been flying commercially for a long time, you must be fully aware of the "swiss cheese" concept when it comes to the causes of aircraft accidents. You can not argue your case with anyone, that the pound system used on some Sky Europe airplanes DOES create another POTENTIAL hole in the concept of the safety of the operations. Of course the crews are intelligent people and will be able to cope with it on everyday basis, but in the overall view it does reduce the safety and it is an issue that can be eliminated should there be sufficient will of the management and sufficient finances. It all simply comes down to the fact that statistically there IS an increased potential for error, leading to a potential more serious issue.

The same goes for my claim that the increased stress on board does not help the safety of operations. Again - I am not saying that an airplane is going to crash tomorrow because of this, but it simply and inarguably creates another hole in the swiss-cheese model, which, if lined up with another hole, brings the flight closer to an incident or accident if other factors are involved.

I do not understand your sentence:
YOU have decided to be UNFIT, if you decide to leave i wont blame you either but PLEASE dont send unfounded info.
I have not decided to be UNFIT - I have decided to leave the company at the end of April. I did my share of flying for free, I did participate on the Sept/Oct concessions. I have simply decided that I do not trust the management that they can lead the company out of the crisis. I have realized that I do not like the way the management behaves towards its own employees when they are the ones who basically allowed the company to survive the winter. I have decided that I have had enough of the management's arrogance and lack of communication, etc etc... I could go on.

With all of the above said it does not mean that I have any hard feelings against the people who have stayed. I have spent several wonderful years with the company and have many nice memories. I wish every Sky employee the best - I wish them that their decision to believe in the competence of the management turned out to be a good one in the long run. I do not want to get involved with the company's internal issues - if the employees are receiving salaries or not is none of my business any more.

But at the same time I can not simply allow the management carry on treating the FORMER employees, including myself, in the same way as they are doing now. It is unacceptable, that the company completely stops paying-out even the small installments of owed salaries to its former employees once they leave the company. Former employees do not care what the company needs to pay first and why. Former employees want to be treated in the same way as the current employees - we have given Sky Europe our share of effort and sacrifice as anybody else. Are we bad because we have decided that enough is enough and we left? Do we not deserve to keep on receiving the small salary installments until the company's moral and legal obligations are repaid to us? I do not know how it is in your base (Bratislava I assume?), but there are simply too many former employees to whom the company stopped re-paying their back-log of salaries on the day they have submitted their resignation. Is this fair?

Are you calling my actions unfair even in spite of the fact that I have personally spoken to Jason and kindly asked him to resume repaying the owed salaries to the former employees - I have even discussed an acceptable re-payment plan over a period of time. But how did Jason respond to such requests and proposals? In his own natural way - he simply put his head into the sand just like an ostrich does and never even responded. When the management shows absolutely no effort to try to come to an agreement concerning its legal obligations and completely ignores us, what do you suggest would be a "fair" treatment then? And do not mention filing a law-suit when everyone is aware of the fact, that without an investor the company is not going to be here within 3 months.

The media attention that Sky Europe is now starting to get is not a result of someone going crazy, but merely a logical consequence of the management's behavior and its absolute lack of interest in dealing with its obligations.

Best Regards,