Netjets to invest 30 Mio Euro in Egelsbach Airport (near FRA)

[chrispler]

Today a read the article below, which says that Netjets would invest 30 Mio € at Egelsbach Airport. Corvest is named as Co-investor.

Do you believe that Netjets would invest such a high amount in times of uncertain eco future?


Investoren interessiert: Große Pläne für Flugplatz Egelsbach | Nachrichten | hr (http://www.hr-online.de/website/rubriken/nachrichten/index.jsp?rubrik=36082&key=standard_document_35852274)

:confused:

[south coast]

The money would be better spent relocating their operations HQ to somewhere in the first world!

[SpainFly]

To where South Coast ? Maybe-Monkey-Island ?

I would prefer Lisbon than the Mudflats....

[south coast]

I never said the UK, so although I was not offended by the 'Monkey Island' incident, it just goes to prove that there is actually some truth to it, as before the UK was even mentioned you are making such references.

If the office was based in any one of the following countries, Germany, Netherlands, France, Switzerland and yes, the UK, I think we would have a more efficient operation.

But then again, I am just a monkey from the monkey-island so what do I know...what I do know is that we still own something which used to be yours, and funnily enough it is an island inhabited by monkeys!

[Flintstone]

A Netjets Manager Surveys The View From His New Office.


http://ocw.nd.edu/anthropology/primate-behavior/EP.27.2.gif/image_preview




:E

[south coast]

Is that Spain or Africa in the distance, ah-same difference!

You started it SpainFly.

[tophe]

And what all this has to do with the subject???
:bored:

[south coast]

Apologies to the above poster, you are quite right, we drifted off topic.

My point was a light hearted jab at huge investment plans during a global economic slow down.

[Flintstone]

I just like monkeys :(

[Smeagels Boyfriend]

Is that Monkey scratching it's bollocks?

[johnriketes]

The Spainish and French have some things in common. Nationalistic pride (or sulking) for example, taking precedence over air safety.

Is the "antenna" still still erected at the end of the Easterly runway? If it is, then take it down!!

The British owned "Island" of Gibraltar I am referring to.

[smallfry]

Flinstone. Thats the funniest post I have seen in ages.

[His dudeness]

The Spainish and French have some things in common. Nationalistic pride


Yeah exactly, something a brit never has had any stakes in it...Rule, lisboa, lisboa rule the waves!

On Topic: the questions are:

1) do they know that ALL smaller villages around Egelsbach (and FRA) are against any form of expandure? Even ATC contrllers have been seen on anti Egelsbach demonstrations against the longer runway...

2) do they know that it can take ages to get permission for a further stretch in Germany?

3) Egelsbach is very close to EDDF, this will cause problems ATC wise. Don´t expect DFS (German ATC) to be a helpful partner EDDF is their holy grail and anyone else has to suffer from that. EDFE (IFR) departures would cross the centerline of FRA 18, which is the main departure runway...(in fact only used for departures)

If they invest, fine for them. To the rest of the aviation world it just means another airport that handles NJE better than us. This time though it would be obvious why.

[EatMyShorts!]

Well, what we really need to do is kick the Americans out of Wiesbaden's airport and make it Frankfurt's business aviation airport. But as this is not feasible in the foreseeable future we have to stick to Egelsbach, it loos like...

[south coast]

I wonder if someone is kicking themselves that NJ didnt buy EGLF when they had the chance.

[buzzc152]

No, whoever owns EGLF would still have opening hours, movements etc dictated by the local authorities.

I believe EGTC is still very much on the cards as a future NJE stronghold.

Buzz

[south coast]

Where is EGTC?

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

EGTC = Cranfield

[KUMOOZ]

EGTC with its fast and easy connections to the financial centre of the universe..... Milton Keynes.
Thought my days of holding at that NDB at Cranfield were long over! :eek:

[buzzc152]

It's no so bad. They have an ILS AND VOR approach to 21. And Cafe Horrific does one of the best bacon sarnies of all GA airfields. Hmmmmm, bacony:hmm:

[long final]

Suprised they didnt buy Southend

[northern boy]

I hear that Gatwick is up for sale. Des res, all mod cons, bijou location needs some upgrading and the greenhouse, or Belgrano as it is better known, could do with demolishing. Excellent choice for the first time buyer. No chain.

I wonder if they couldn't make a better job of LHR than the hapless Ferrovial. Total dung heap mind. Demolish T 1,2 3 4 and make T5 the premium business aviation terminal in the world. BA could relocate to Cranfield and everyone else can sod off.

[Red Four]

Southend would definitely fit the NJE requirements:
H24 operation.
Good weather record, ILS (well, on one end!), radar
Reasonable links to London, train station planned.
Hangar space/development land available, and a long established pool of engineering workforce at the airport.

[SayMach#]

In fact; NetJets is looking to by an airfield for different reasons. And in fact, NJ was interested in buying Tempelhof. But with the political situation in Berlin they got kicked out! :ugh:

[chrispler]

I still wonder why NJ would invest into infrastructure? As I remember Tempelhof and frankfurt are not their top Airports. Do they consider a latent demand, that would fill their AC?

[Flintstone]

Eaglesbach would come with many problems not least its proximity to FRA, the incumbent tenants and the many obstacles encountered on approach. Few crew going there in the early days would have called it a happy place to be.

So we've had rumours on them buying Cambridge, Cranfield and now Eaglesbach. At least they're running in alphabetical order. :rolleyes:

[pma 32dd]

Southend would be ideal to move the headquarters to - near a major city and the beach :O

Someone might have beaten us to it though........

Stobart to buy Southend airport as southern base - Times Online (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article5276175.ece)

[EatMyShorts!]

Don't advance that fast in the alhpabet :) "F" is first, so NJE may go and buy Frankfurt/Main so we finally get rid of the slot-problems! That would be neat :cool:

And no, there are no "eagles" at the "bach"(creek). So please call it "Egelsbach" :)

[Flintstone]

Sure. Just as soon as this place ceases to be called 'Monkey Island'. ;)

[His dudeness]

...of one of Rowan Atkinsons famous sentences:

"bloody british, can´t take a joke..." :ok: :ok: :) :)

[EatMyShorts!]

Oh no, Flinti can take jokes very well. Flinti, see you one of these days in EGLF ;)

[scambuster]

I heard netjets is looking for somewhere to long term park all their small planes. The crews will be doing community work around the town.:eek:

[nimrod]

Scambuster, I may be taking what you say the wrong way but, your statement is INCORRECT and will only lead some to worry even more than they need to.

You infer that ALL aircraft are to be parked. The truth is that consideration is being given to 'parking' some ( a SMALL number) of aircraft for a short period of time.

NO decision has been made yet and we will not hear of one for some time.

[south coast]

No decisions have been taken as of yet, so unless you have some other information you care to share with the forum, you are only stirring the pot and stirring it in a negative way.

[nimrod]

Totally agree South Coast.

[jungle drums]

Hello guys and girls,

Please don't take this the wrong way but for those of you who have joined the corporate world for the first time through Netjets - either from the airlines, military or GA, welcome to the harsh reality that can be corporate aviation.

On one day, you have the most amazing job on wonderful equipment.

On the the next day, you are part of the cost cutbacks, jobless, and looking up at the airliners still flying over and wondering why you didn't chase that airline career or stay with that other company, or even elect to stay in the military where all your peers are now major major majors.

It has happened to me too many times over the years.

I say to you - don't get morose or despondent, or take your stress home to your loved ones.

Keep moving, stay positive and use other skills to fill your time and make money to pay the bills.

You have to experience winter in order to appreciate spring.

If you haven't experienced it then you may not have any empathy with what I write - I ask for your patience. But if you have, you will know.

Corporate aviation.

[gordon field]

I understand that they have still yet to make a firm commitment to the owners Cranfield University to open what would be an engineering base at Cranfield. Has anyone any news on when work on the new the taxyway to RWY 21 will start?

[Flintstone]

Eat My Shorts. You know me so well ;) You'll find me somewhere near a red and white 605 these days. Feel free to come aboard :ok:

Scambuster wrote "small" fleets are to be mothballed so perhaps nimrod was a bit premature in jumping on him/her. Interestingly enough your own colleagues are spreading the rumour about this. At least four of them have told me the same story, two today. Might be an idea to start nearer home if you want to scotch the rumour.

[nimrod]

Hi Flintstone

To avoid any misunderstanding I was referring to the statement that all small aircraft are to be parked. This is incorrect and I would not wish people to pick up on this and worry even more about their future. There is enough of that already in our industry.

Kind regards

[Flintstone]

nimrod.

scambuster wrote "I heard netjets is looking for somewhere to long term park all their small planes" to which you replied "You infer that ALL aircraft are to be parked". He/she isn't at all. The clue's in the word 'small'.

scambuster is merely repeating what he/she, I and others are hearing and as I said up there ^^^ it's your own colleagues spreading the story. It's certainly true that some aircraft have gone and I'm being told that any mothball plan will be spun to the owners as free upgrades for people holding cards or shares on those fleets.

Whatever the truth is it will come out eventually but in the meantime it surely must be pretty uncomfortable for those involved. Be nice if Lisbon actually told you all what's happening, no?

(Anyone else sensing the spirit of the long-gone-and-not-at-all-missed MJ in this thread?;)).

[south coast]

Hey Fredrick...

Scambuster said ALL small planes....so there is an A.L.L.

[atb1943]

NJ (and the local CDU party) want to extend the rwy by 270m to accommodate aircraft up to 25t.
The co-investors have purchased 5.2 hectares of land adjacent to the airport and have plans for offices, maintenance hangars and even an hotel. They are looking for even more land.

The CDU welcomed NJ's plans in an announcement back in August 2007...
http://www.cdu-kreis-offenbach.de/Dateien/Flugplatz_Entwicklung_20070808.pdf

They really mean business!

Naturally there will be protests, there have been at every development stage. They will come to terms, as TAG did with the Farnborough populace.

Just need to divert the railway somehow...:rolleyes:

atb

[crjlover]

Wiesbaden can't be a good solution for frankfurt. Tey are just 40km apart but in it can take 40 minutes or even 3 ours, it depend on the traffic.

[chrispler]

Buffet seem to underestimate the complex application process to develop the aiport (ILS, runway extension)- might impact their plan to operate there by 2010 latest


EGELSBACH. Die Insolvenz des Flugplatzes Egelsbach scheint sich kaum noch abzuwenden. Selbst wenn die bisherigen Gesellschafter Anfang März in ihren Gremien dem Verkauf ihrer Anteile an den Investor Netjets zustimmen, scheint die Zukunft des Flugplatzes gefährdet.
Da in Langen und Egelsbach Bürgerbegehren angestrebt werden, dürfte der Verkauf der Anteile wohl vorerst nicht vollzogen werden. Wegen der ablehnenden Stimmung in der Bevölkerung könnte es nämlich durchaus passieren, dass die Parlamentsbeschlüsse zum Verkauf des Flugplatzes wieder gekippt werden.
Bei einem Bürgerbegehren bleiben zunächst sechs Wochen Zeit, um die nötigen Unterschriften zu sammeln. Diese müssen dann geprüft und das Bürgerbegehren vom Wahlamt eingeleitet werden. Alles in allem dürfte es Sommer werden, bis der Bürgerentscheid erledigt ist.
Doch so lange will Netjets anscheinend nicht mehr warten. Das jedenfalls geht aus Äußerungen des Flugplatz-Geschäftsführers Peter Lehmann im Gespräch mit dem ECHO hervor.
Netjets habe inzwischen klar erkennen lassen, sich von dem Geschäft zurückzuziehen, wenn nicht kurzfristig die notwendigen positiven Entscheidungen vorliegen. Keinesfalls will Netjets den Flugplatz nach einer Insolvenz übernehmen, weil ein solches Verfahren viel zu lange dauere.
Die öffentlichen Proteste führten inzwischen immerhin dazu, dass der rund 70 Seiten umfassende Vertrag mit Netjets in einigen Punkten nachgearbeitet wird, wie zu erfahren war. Damit soll noch mehr als bisher deutlich werden, dass sich die Amerikaner in allen Punkten an den Gesellschaftervertrag von 1998 halten, in dem unter anderem die Zahl der maximalen Flugbewegungen oder die Betriebszeiten für den Flugplatz festgelegt sind.
Der Geschäftsführer lässt keinen Zweifel am Ernst der Lage. Spätestens im April oder Mai müsse er Insolvenz beantragen, nachdem die bisherigen Gesellschafter erklärten, keinen einzigen Cent mehr in den Betrieb des defizitären Flugplatzes zu pumpen.
Die Insolvenz sei für alle Seiten die schlechteste Lösung, warnt Lehmann. Die bisherigen Gesellschafter hätten dann kaum noch eine Chance, ihre Einlagen wieder zu bekommen. Der Insolvenzverwalter setze dann sicher alles daran, den Flughafenbetrieb aufrecht zu erhalten und suche dafür nach Investoren. „Man weiß nicht, wer dann kommt“, so Lehmann.
Hauptgläubiger der Flugplatzbetreibergesellschaft HLG ist der Frankfurter Flughafenbetreiber Fraport, der den klammen Egelsbachern vor einigen Jahren mit einem Darlehen über mehrere Millionen Euro ausgeholfen hat. Da Fraport ein großes Interesse daran habe, den Flugplatz Egelsbach für Geschäftsflieger zu erhalten, werde das Unternehmen darauf drängen, schnell einen neuen Betreiber zu finden. „Da haben wir dann keinen Einfluss mehr auf die Verträge“, gibt Lehmann zu bedenken.
Dass er öffentlich als Lügner gebrandmarkt werde, weil er über die Verlängerung der Start- und Landebahn rede, wurmt ihn. Nicht er habe diese Verlängerung gefordert, sondern die Geschäftsflieger, die den Flughafen Egelsbach nicht nur bei guter Sicht, sondern auch bei schlechtem Wetter nutzen wollen. Außerdem schätzten sie die höhere Sicherheit eines Instrumenten-Landesystems (ILS). So etwas sei bei vergleichbaren Flugplätzen weltweit Standard. Um das ILS einzuführen, müsse die Bahn jedoch um 270 Meter verlängert werden. „Das ist nicht meine Forderung, sondern die Forderung der zuständigen Behörden“, stellt Lehmann klar.
Netjets müsste einen langen Atem haben, sollte das Unternehmen in Egelsbach wirklich zum Zug kommen. Für eine Bahnverlängerung wäre ein Planfeststellungsverfahren notwendig, das nach Lehmanns vorsichtiger Schätzung mindestens bis 2015 dauern würde. Netjets habe jedoch signalisiert, bis dahin mit den Sichtflugbedingungen auszukommen.
Lehmann kann sich keinen besseren Partner als die Amerikaner vorstellen, zumal alle Details des Betriebs in einem Vertrag nach deutschem Recht verbindlich geregelt seien. Doch das werde öffentlich immer wieder bestritten. Inzwischen werde Netjets sogar der Vorwurf gemacht, das Unternehmen wolle das Startgewicht der in Egelsbach erlaubten Maschinen auf mehr als die bisher genehmigten 20 Tonnen erhöhen.
Tatsächlich kann jedes Unternehmen, das mit einem schwereren Flugzeug in Egelsbach landen will, beim Regierungspräsidenten einen Antrag auf Ausnahmegenehmigung stellen, dem in der Regel auch stattgegeben wird. Im Schnitt komme das höchstens 20 Mal pro Jahr vor. Um nicht in jedem Fall die Bürokratie in Gang zu setzen, habe die Behörde vorgeschlagen, künftig pauschal eine bestimmte Zahl von Ausnahmegenehmigungen zu erteilen. Um der Diskussion in diesem Punkt den Zündstoff zu nehmen, will er wieder zu alten Regelung der Einzelgenehmigungen zurückkehren.
Unterstützung erhält Lehmann inzwischen von den Firmen rund um den Egelsbacher Flugplatz und den dortigen Vereinen. Sie erklärten in einer gemeinsamen Pressemitteilung, Netjets werde im Gegensatz zu anderen Interessenten als strategischer Investor gesehen, der nicht an einer kurzfristigen Gewinnabschöpfung, sondern einem langfristigen Engagement interessiert sei. Das Geschäftsmodell basiere auf dem Verkauf von Flugzeuganteilen an Firmen, deren Reisebedarf zu klein sei, um ein eigenes Flugzeug zu betreiben. Netjets wollen im Rhein-Main-Gebiet vertreten sein, weil es hier viele Geschäftsreisende gibt. Peter Lehmann verweist auf die rund 750 Arbeitsplätze, die im Umfeld des Flugplatzes bisher entstanden. Weitere rund 500 seien zu erwarten, wenn ein Fünf-Sterne-Plus-Wellnes-Hotel samt medizinischem Zentrum und ein kleiner Gewerbepark mit flugplatzaffinen Serviceunternehmen entstehe. Ob und welche Zukunft der Flugplatz Egelsbach hat, wird sich in den kommenden vier bis sechs Wochen entscheiden.

http://www.echo-online.de/suedhessen/template_detail.php3?id=717015 (http://www.echo-online.de/suedhessen/template_detail.php3?id=717015)

[smallfry]

I am afraid I don't read German well enough to try to read that! But I am sure that the complexities of extending the runway, installing ILS etc were looked at before the deal was signed. You don't get to be such a rich man by rushing into a battle that you cant win.
Time will tell, but I am sure that there is a plan!

[Red Four]

Still think they would have been better of at somewhere like Southend (H24), especially now it looks likely to get it's rail station to London and a small runway extension.

[suchiman]

Southend is not bad but maybe Stansted is better?

[I like planes & stuf]

I suspect the issue was the slot availability into Frankfurt- so Southend may be of limited value unless a LoCo interpretation of Frankfurt would suffice :E

[PPRuNeUser0215]

t looks likely to get it's rail station to London and a small runway extension.
I doubt a railway station will be a big seller to NJE customers. The few PAX I have seen don't really strike me as the "public transport" type. Probably why they do private jets, yachts, helicopters, islands, chauffeur driven cars...

London's access is obviously not easy but it is not tomorrow that we will see Mr Rich waiting for the 10:52 Southend to Central London. With bags, skis, children and pet dog under his arms. Not to forget the nanny, evening dresses for Madam and the latest painting bought at the art exhibition in New York.

[Phil77]

Chrispler:

Buffet seem to underestimate the complex application process to develop the aiport (ILS, runway extension)- might impact their plan to operate there by 2010 latest

In the article you've posted it says:

Für eine Bahnverlängerung wäre ein Planfeststellungsverfahren notwendig, das nach Lehmanns vorsichtiger Schätzung mindestens bis 2015 dauern würde. Netjets habe jedoch signalisiert, bis dahin mit den Sichtflugbedingungen auszukommen.

It basically means that the managing director of the airport (Mr. Lehmann) carefully estimates that the planning process for a runway extension would last at least until 2015. NetJets supposedly indicated that they would get by with visual flight rules until then.

[EatMyShorts!]

That is not really a problem. Visual approaches into EDFE are not a problem, the weather is good enough for this most of the time.