DAE Flight Academy: Students' feedback please!

[SilveR5]

Hi there..

"Dubai Aerospace Enterprise Flight Academy"

Is anybody here a current student at DAEFA?? I'm looking for feedback from students about:

-Screening/Assessment process (I heard that they need a math/physics genius to pass the initial exams!!!)

-Quality of training

-The environment in general


I appreciate your help

[.Aero]

Hey Silver5,

I can confirm that their screening process is pretty rigorous and it's beyond what you would expect of any FTO in the Middle East (which is definitely a good thing!)

It's a way of reducing risk to the flight school and yourself. The flight school don't want your hard earned money if they think (a) Your not going to cope with the intensive training, or (b) They believe you'll have little success with becoming a first officer with the airlines after you complete your training.

The selection process and what it entails is available [here (http://www.daeflightacademy.com/Admissions/tabid/67/Default.aspx)]

All the best :ok:

[SilveR5]

Yes Aero..I think you are right buddy

& one more important thing to add here is the issue of reputation...since it's a new academy with a brand new training concepts, they should be doing that to guarantee the distinction they promise to achieve..

I would be glad if any1 around here shares some insider's info about it..!

[sispanys ria]

One simple fact: DAE chose the eclipse 500 as a training aircraft. This is enough to be skeptical about this academy's strategy. They probably have fantastic people but to me this simple choice is a big concern about the technical knowledge of the decision makers.

[DoggyDip]

Hi there,
I am booking a tour with DAEFA,and I have a lot of question regarding their training.However,i was concerned regarding math and physics exams. Its just becasue I havent practiced these subjects for very long time. They told me to buy O-Level revision books,and should be sufficient to pass these subjects.However,what i understood is that there isnt failing as such,but if they see that you are weak in these subjects,they recommend 2 month foundation course(which costs $5000).
I'll keep you guys up dated after my visit.
PEACE!

[SilveR5]

sispanys ria

so what's ur point exactly?? the eclipse 500 is their A/C for the multi-engine rating and the type rating..in my view, I see this very superior vs. any other pilot training scheme...I can't really see why it looks skeptical or creating big concern to you??

please elaborate...

thanks

[.Aero]

Sispanys,

On the contrary, I found their choice of aircraft to be rather impressive. Allot of the schools in the Middle East have had performance issues with their aircraft for the simple fact that most old & dying PA28s, C152/172s under perform in this part of the world because of the the weather being so hot & humid. Allot of schools have had to actually call off flights due to conditions exceeding aircraft climatic restrictions. You cant afford to have down time when your on an intensive integrated course of training.

The Cirrus SR22 is what they use for primary single engine flight training. It's fitted with a Continental IO-550 which delivers 310HP and is an all glass-cocpit aircraft. I don't think anyone is going to be complaining!

The more advanced portions of flight training (CPL/IR) is conducted on a twin engined (turbine) Eclipse 500 which has just recently won European EASA approval. This is unheard of within the realms of civil flight training. You never hear of ab-intio cadets who experience 50 hours worth of real jet time before they even start their Type Rating.

There's a good article about DAE in a magazine called Civil Aviation Training (http://cat.texterity.com/cat/2007-6/?pg=14&pm=2&u1=friend).

[John Miller]

"Allot of the schools in the Middle East have had performance issues with their aircraft for the simple fact that most old & dying PA28s, C152/172s under perform in this part of the world because of the the weather being so hot & humid"

,Aero, that is nonsense. perhaps you'd like to name these schools with their 'old and dying' PA28s, 152s and 172s and when they have been grounded because of 'climatic' conditions.

[.Aero]

perhaps you'd like to name these schools with their 'old and dying' PA28s, 152s and 172s and when they have been grounded because of 'climatic' conditions.

Three months ago you posted a message on PPRuNE telling someone that you understand that Fujairah Aviation's diamond aircraft "rarely fly for two months during summer as they struggle with the temperatures."

I can also confirm that QAC have also had no-fly weeks during the summer months due to soaring temperatures. If I'm not mistaken, the PA28s climatic restriction is posted as ISA+30, which would equate to 45°C. Temperatures can easily exceed this during the summer months.

As for aging fleet, it's no secret that the operational performace of aircraft slowly deteriorate over their life span. Quite a few FTOs in the Middle East have aircraft that were built back in the early 70s making them 35+ years old.

Cheerio.

[sispanys ria]

Ok I will elaborate little bit more.

Like any other aircraft the Eclipse will have to face the demanding climatic conditions of the region. Have a look at its performances and tell me if you would recommend it for multi-engine training (N-1 operations).

Now the second issue concerns the current situation of the manufacturer. Some serious aviation consultants seems convinced the production will stop within 6 months as it will probably face similar bankruptcy problems as Adams and Grob. While Cessna & Embraer can afford to develop such products thanks to their strong experience and wide product range (balancing development costs), developing a full production of a new jet aircraft was quite a tough challenge. With all respect to these ambitious developpers, their unrealistic vision of the situation, encouraged by enthusiastic (and irresponsible) operators lead them to a dead end.
Day Jet sold 28 of its Eclipse for $500k each while the manufacturer had to adjust its prices by almost 1 Million USD. In the meantime the Turkish MyJet is having 200% trust in this program and orders 120 aircrafts for its air taxi program...

The VLJ industry is suffering from a highly speculative marketing just like the real estate industry in the UAE. The ending will probably be similar as all the actors prefers to keep denying the reality while the curtain is closing. There must be one very happy guy who enjoyed loads of commissions by recommending this machine in the Middle East but I wouldn't like to be one of the buyers.

Once again it's only my personnal point of view. I would have recommended turboprops for a flight academy due to much higher flat ratings in hot climate and lower fuel consumptions. I guess no other flight academy in the world made a similar decision... it must mean something.

[John Miller]

Ah .Aero so you really mean the Diamonds and not the Pipers and Cessnas. Then why didn't you say so in the first place? Which Middle East training aircraft were built in the early seventies? You say there are quite a few - perhaps you can point them out. And maybe you can post the POH entry that limits PA28 ops to ISA+30.

[.Aero]

Sispansys,

Eclipse Aviation like so many other companies out there are having a hard time with their finances. I don't know what the financing agreement was between DAE & Eclipse Aviation or what the agreed timetable for delivery was, but I hear first delivery is earmarked for Q1/2009 ?

EA are optimistic about the influx of orders they'll now be able to secure from Europe as they've just received their EASA certification and according to press statements, employees are back at work again. I believe their new business model relies less on orders from air taxi start ups.

As for performance, both the SR22 G3 & the EA500 will out-perform most other training aircraft on the market. They both have great climb rates and cruise speeds, and they'll have no problem getting above mucky weather rather quickly. No more waiting to get to 5,000 ft to practice stalls - no more waiting to get to your designated training area.

Don't forget, the EA500 will only be carrying a student & an instructor with no baggage. Factory seating options are 5 or 6 places.

DAE obviously have deep pockets here! :}

[sispanys ria]

the EA500 will out-perform most other training aircraft on the market.

Well once again, if this was the case I guess other flight academies should have considered it, especially when you can get one for $500k. Seriously speaking, we're talking about high rpm jet engines which would be running almost all the time (ISA+15) at 100% of their temperature limit in a sandy/dusty environment. I really wonder how these machines will perform an engine out go around in mid august after 3 years of intensive usage and how much the engine overhaul and HSI will cost. As for the air taxi, these engines (jets) are made to run at high/cold levels on a long range to be competitive. I don't see how they could provide an economical improvement being run in ISA+25 low levels short legs (should you compare it to modern turboprops).

[.Aero]

A fleet of Senecas or Seminoles would not have been the answer to what DAE were looking for. The airlines have been saying they want pilots who have been trained in an airline orientated environment, with glass cockpit exposure. DAE wants to take that a step further and introduce real jet time from the start. These EA500s are going to be put to good use.

I know the academy are talking to aviation authorities in the region as they plan on flying abroad with their EA500s. This was something they reiterated. They want their students to fly pressurized jets, charting international airways, crossing FIR boundaries, and landing at foreign airports. What flight school offers such experiences as part of their CPL/IR training?

Traditional multi-engined trainers would simply not deliver. DAE are taking a different approach to flight training and they've obviously got the money to do so.
SR22s don't come cheap either - they cost over $1/4 million a pop!

[sispanys ria]

I don't get your point. Crossing FIRs and landing in foreign (other arabic) countries have nothing to do with the main purpose of the CPL-IR (such as using a pressurization system). As a matter of fact I used to fly international destinations during my CPL-IR in Europe, DAE is not gonna initiate a revolution. Mixing up CPL-IR, mutli engine and jet training will not nescessarly mean pilots would be better airbus pilots with 250 TT than "classic" students.

Beside this, the aircraft is limited to 48 celsius and using the pressurization will probably badly deteriorate the performances you may have heard about the Eclipse. I really want to see its EO RoC in summer and how long the engines will last. Lets first wait for the aircrafts to be delivered.

As you said DAE must really have a lot of money to spend in an aircraft having a $2 million yearly depreciation...

[AIM HI]

:=:=:=And maybe you can post the POH entry that limits PA28 ops to ISA+30. :=:=:=
Cant find it,
The limitation is for human not machine,so what is the human limit where this thing is?

[SilveR5]

Hey guys...wait a second!

you all have very good technical data here...and this is really amazing coz I think only limited number of people in the middle east are heavily invovled in this sort of info...but this is not my point really...I just wish that we don't drift away from the main question...however, all your inputs are still highly appreciated

Cheers

[.Aero]

Sispanys,

Crossing FIRs and landing in foreign (other arabic) countries have nothing to do with the main purpose of the CPL-IR (such as using a pressurization system).Your quite right in your suggestion. Their integrated course (now GCAA approved) was actually modeled on existing integrated ATP(a) criteria found in Subpart D of JAR-FCL1. The completed curriculum of training at DAE will actually surpasses JAR training requirements by approximately 20-30%.

The primary objectives of the CPL/IR will still be met during the course of training.
Secondary to this will be the experiences you gain having a acheived those objectives using modern and complex aircraft, the EA500 in this case.

Now I'm nothing more than a bystander here. Only time will tell if their 'system' of training impresses or otherwize.

Aim Hi,

All powerplants have climatic restrictions on both ends of their 'operational' ranges.
You wouldn't fly a C172 in -20°C temperatures without a winterization kit installed would you?

[sispanys ria]

Their integrated course (now GCAA approved) was actually modeled on existing integrated ATP(a) criteria found in Subpart D of JAR-FCL1. The completed curriculum of training at DAE will actually surpasses JAR training requirements by approximately 20-30%.The problem is that I don't think they will issue you with a JAR license... so I don't really get the point of working harder than for a JAR license if it's only to get a GCAA one (which you can easily obtain by validating a US license...).
I would instead recommend to get a JAR CPL-IR...because I'm not sure the GCAA CPL-IR would be helpful in Europe.

All powerplants have climatic restrictions on both ends of their 'operational' ranges.
You wouldn't fly a C172 in -20°C temperatures without a winterization kit installed would you? I don't think DAE is gonna install air conditioning units in front of their Eclipses engines air intakes. What is the point in investing in ISA+10 flat rated low thrust engines when you can get something working fine at higher temps ?

SilverR5 you're right but I think this interesting conversation is also related to the academy...

[.Aero]

I don't really get the point of working harder than for a JAR license if it's only to get a GCAA oneSimple answer? Forward planning. It makes good business sense.

Voluntarily sculpting your syllabi to meet that of JAR ensures:

- The licencing requirements are in line with local regulations. Allot of the NAAs/ANSPs in the Middle East such as (DGCAM, BCAA, GCAA) are adopting JAA-FCL & JAR-OPS and implementing them into the local statutory books.

- Potential for JAA approval in the future. This as you know already exists around the world in countries like Australia (WAAC), Canada (MFC) etc. The regulatory processes needed for such approvals are greatly reduced when the FTO in question has voluntarily aligned it's OPS+REGS to comply with that of JAR from day one. When DAE becomes a JAA approved FTO in the future (which I know is being considered at the moment), this will open them up to the European market and they'll be competing alongside other JAA approved schools.

- Choice of licensing streams. If they do become JAA-approved, they will likely offer GCAA licences alongside JAA-issued ones.

- Ease of conversions in the interim. DAE graduates with GCAA fATPLs might wish to convert their licences to a JAA fATPLs in the future. This process will be easier when you have been trained to JAA criteria. Someone who has trained to the tune of FARs for example might find this conversion process a little more "involved".

[sispanys ria]

Well for the time it's still "easy" to get the GCAA ATP through the FAA one. Should you consider a JAA standard training today I would recommend to get it in Europe instead of a speculative frozen GCAA one. In the mean time going for a quick FAA ATP then GCAA conversion when needed will not cost that much and will give you the unfrozen license...

In my opinion, as a part of the CPL-IR it is quite more educative to experience some real weather, icing and other "classic" procedures (NDB, restricted airports etc...) instead of being vectored for ILS approaches on 3500 m long runways in clear sky, no wind, no rain, no terrain etc...

[SilveR5]

Sorry mate...I've almost dropped ur message...!!! obviously it's very important one:ok:

Well..I'll be looking forward to getting the updates as soon as you come back

All the best ! ;)

[.Aero]

International routes to be flown with the EA500 are:

RAK - to - Mumbai, India

RAK - to - Athens, Greece

RAK - to - Jeddah, Saudi

RAK - to - Muscat, Oman

[sispanys ria]

I'm still not convinced of the educative benefits of overflying 1000 Nm of water to go to Mumbai but after all people can choose their academy.

When are those Eclipse supposed to be delivered ?

[.Aero]

I heard it would be early 2009.

[SilveR5]

Hey you DAEFA guys...

Where are you?!!:confused:

it seems that no one of them ever knew about PPRuNe!!

or more interestingly they might be having no chance to comb their hair even!!!

[RSFTO]

NOW that the factory is gone bankrupt are they going to deliver the airplanes?

any feedback from the students there?

[SilveR5]

Yeah I knew that Eclipse Aviation has filed for bankruptcy, and Cirrus has furloughed hundreds of manufacturing workers until January...One can't tell how is it gonna affect the future of the starter academy!

still not a word has came out from anyone there...strange, isn't it! :ugh:

[Mike.Park]

Guys, Eclipse Aviation aren't going anywhere. They have filed for Chapter 11 which allot of companies do when it's crunch time and necessary to protect value & reduce debt. Companies are still allowed to operate (with limitation) under Chapter 11.

"In the face of unprecedented economic challenges, it is clear that the sale of the Eclipse business through the Chapter 11 process is the right course of action to maximize the value of the business, secure its future and protect the best interests of Eclipse's stakeholders, including customers, suppliers, employees and creditors," said Roel Pieper, CEO of Eclipse Aviation. "The successful sale will position the business for aggressive global expansion, allowing the company to fulfill its promise and solidify its position as the world's leading manufacturer of VLJs."Full press statement here (http://www.eclipseaviation.com/company/news/news.php?c=1&id=1399)

DAE have little leverage over the financial well being of their suppliers. I'm assuming they'll have no choice but to lease training aircraft from a 3rd party if EA500 deliveries don't materialize in time.

[SilveR5]

Yeah you are right about chapter 11.. to be accurate, we should say "filing for bankruptcy protection".

But we are still at the same conclusion..or better say "the same speculations"...and we don't know what kind of limitations those guys will face at EA.


DAE have little leverage over the financial well being of their suppliers. I'm assuming they'll have no choice but to lease training aircraft from a 3rd party if EA500 deliveries don't materialize in time.


I wonder how do they manage to conduct the training currently...may be they already have the Cirrus single-engine A/C, but what about the ME?? are they still committed to train students on the Eclipse 500?? On time??
I think that the original delivery date of EA500 is Feb2009..not sure about the date but I hope it's true...even if leased, this would be a satisfactory option..at the end I would love to know that they move forward according to plan.

[Mike.Park]

I don't think it is an immediate crisis for those who are already at the flight school.
The school already have their single engined aircraft (SR22), and they also have their B737 simulator & their flight training devices.

Believe it or not, most of your ab-initio training is conducted on a single engined aircraft so I don't think the current cadets are anywhere near to starting their multi-engined phase of flight training.

According to their website:

135 Hours in the Cirrus SR22
66 hours on Flight Training Devices
50 Hours in the Eclipse EA500 Jet

[sandboxteacher]

To my knowledge, knowing a few of the upper managment people at DAEFA, they are considering many different strategies with the latest developments at Eclipse. Of course leasing from a third party is an option, another would be to scrap Eclipse and go with a different VLJ all together. Before anyone reply's to this saying what other jet's are there. I am sure they are talking with Cessna and companies like that. As for replies from people within the company concerning the developments at the Flight Academy, come on people, read some of these posts. It is almost ignorant to assume that they are keeping silent on here. Isn't it a little funny to see stuff that isn't posted anywhere online or in any of their marketing material quoted on here?? As for the health of the Flight Academy, they seem to be almost over the hump of "start up" and finally starting to accelerate into normal day-to-day operations. There have been multiple students coming in for screening and the pipeline for cadet intake is filling pretty fast. Of course, as with any business it is not as fast as people would have assumed it would be, but give it time. Rome was not built in a day you know.

As for the ciriculum: Yes there is a lot of FAA and JAA theory built into it. That is why they have brought in instructors from all over the world. The theory of instruction there should be based on Scenario and some of the instructors there already have a good deal of experience with it. From other schools that I have seen that implement this type of training, it is based more on the students and less on the instructors themselves. Think of it as a guided approach to learning, putting more of the trial and error side of learning back into it. Obliviously they shouldn't let things go too far, but that is the best way to learn. For more info on scenario based training, look at the FAA-FITS information available at www.faa.gov (http://www.faa.gov) or Cirrus themselves use this type of training when it comes to training new owners and Cirrus Standardized Instructor Pilots (CSIP's) and they have a lot of good infor on there site as well. The biggest thing about flying routes, for everyone who say's its a waste of valuable training time, is that you will be flying changing scenarios on every portion. You will have a set number of failures to acheive, a set number of tasks to perform and always, judgment skills are being formed. Working in a two crew environment helps to bridge the gap between Traditional training (Manoeuvers Based) and the Airlines. It's actually a good concept, I just think they may have made a huge mistake trying to do this in Ras Al Khaimah. Some of the new traning ideas coming out on the market, most of them can be found on the EATS (European Aviation Training Symposium) website, will or at least should be the goal of this and many other flight schools. Of course, all of that is left to be seen.

As for the Ground School: All I see on here in almost every thread they anyone has put is that the ground school is useless because you only get GCAA Lics. Well, do you really think a flight school is out to screw you so badly as to make you do something as hard core, and personally as useless as all imagination, if they didn't have something in the works with the JAR authority to allow them to write the tests either off site or even in building?? Come on, that is cruel and unusual punishment if that's the case. Of course, as with anything else in this world, you will always be certified by the authority in which you train. Oxford and Lufthansa send cadets over to the states to build up there flight time so they can do the tests, but they always bring them back here to do the checkrides so why is it such a shock to you guy's that, if you train in the GCAA you get GCAA lics? I'll bet the overall goals of DAEFA is to one day have a training alliance setup with a provider in the JAR World so that when you are ready for the checkride and you have written the tests, you will have the opportunity to go there and do the checkrides. Or at least this is how I would have set things up and will be extremely disappointed if this is not the case over there and then I will have nothing but bad things to say.

I hope this helps a little to you guys, oh, and one more thing. What the hell do you mean "I guess those people don't know about PPruNe?? Of course not, they are students getting into the aviation industry for the first time!!!!! Come on, how long did it take before you or more likely, someone told you about it?? Give them a little credit, they are trying to make the best decisions they can with the information available to them.

Cheers folks and if you have questions, I would say to direct them to DAEFA themselves and try not to speculate. Look at all the information I got out of them just by making a phone call and taking a little initiative to get to some actually in the flight academy that knew what was really going on.

[mutt]

Sandboxteacher, what option are they offering to replace the Eclipse?

Mutt

[SilveR5]

What the hell do you mean "I guess those people don't know about PPruNe?? Of course not


Sorry for this..It seems that I didn't explain it well. As for many pilots and flying enthusiasts, a casual search on the internet using any of the popular search engines will come up with various links from pprune..and I assume that the vast majority of wannabes does know about it. After all I was insinuating to, what came to be a fact later on, that students might be so busy studying or doing something more useful than just posting comments. Isn't this fair enough for them? While for me at this stage, I have nothing to do better than gathering all the possible details, from pprune plus other sources, about the academy before taking any step forward. It's no secret that I'm so interested in DAEFA and would like to know that they are in best shape.

Thanks for the info you shared with us here. Your input is highly appreciated at any time.

Cheers

[sandboxteacher]

Hey SilveR5, sorry for the blast on the PPRuNe thing, I just know that I have heard about it in the last couple of years and have been flying for over ten years now. Most of the time when I put in a search for a flight school, I got the exact site I wanted and not a huge list of other sites and no response that included PPRuNe. I might have miss spoke, but that wasn't supposed to sound like an insult but more as a Well Duh type of thing. As for the students, I don't really know why none of them reply. I hope the course isn't so intense that they have no other life, but I don't really know.

As for the other jet options, there are Cessna Mustangs. They seem reliable and knowing people at Cessna, they say they could have aircraft over in this part of the world for delivery as soon as they would want them. I'll bet there could be issues with finding flight traning devices for them. I don't know who actually has the contract on building them, but that could possibly take longer than the aircraft to recieve. But that would be my guess. Other than that, I really haven't been keeping up with the VLJ markets to see what else is available. Last I heard, anything else is still to far away from production. Maybe a good old King Air or possibly a larger jet and a smaller old fashion twin traininer may be in order. Lets hear it for a good old Seminole or something. I think may have taken a bit of a hit trying to promote flat out "Glass" equipped aircraft, but hey, I guess I'm a little more old school.

Cheers guys and I wish I could give some more insight, but I'm a little tapped for information after last nights post.

[Omega_ice8]

A word to you about DAE flight Academy, well a Few words, run, stay away, don’t waste your money. They have lost a few instructors already; they don’t even have a FTO yet. This school is a giant waste of time and money. If you are European stay in Europe and get JAA certificates. UAE certificates are useless if you are not an Arab or if you don’t have a lot of time IE 2000 hours Transport Cat Jet PIC time. This school is someone’s Fantasy. Think about it they don’t even have an airline partner willing to give their students guaranteed Interviews. 150K for what? What airline is going to take you with 250 and a E500 and a Airbus or 737 Type on UAE certificates. You are going to have to go to eagle jet and buy line training for another $50000USD, Think about it Emirates does their cadet training in Australia for less than half the Price, Ethiad has their program already. Fellow Pilots Don’t waste your time. RAK by the way is a S&%T Whole of a Place trust. It is not DUBAI. If you still feel like wasting money to fly a useless E500 go right a head. Anyway Guys Merry Christmas keep the blue side up.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

It is just different from Dubai, just as Luton is different to London, etc, etc.

I hear that they have a new COO, in DAE, any idea why.

Dr Potty has no connection to DAE, so concerned at this one.

Also heard that RAK airways has set up a JV for Cabin Crew and general SEP training in the Heavy Lift building at RAK.

Horizon is setting up a remote facility, just down the road in UAQ.

So the Northern Emirates have something to attract "learners".



RAK has its problems, but lack of airspace, and less road and air traffic is no one of them.

Glf

[Mike.Park]

News update from CAT Magazine (Dec 2008 ed.)

SR22 SIMULATORS

ASE, Inc. has completed the design, manufacture and installation
of two cirrus SR22 G-3 simulators for the Dubai Aerospace Enterprise
Flight Academy. One unit was approved by the FAA as an advanced
aviation training device in September 2008. The second is a
JAR 2A Level 2 FTD and was qualified in Ras al Khaimah, UAE in
September. Two more devices are scheduled for delivery to DAE Flight
Academy in January 2009.

[SilveR5]

Hey mate..Great news!

Keep us updated :ok:

[ShockWave]

DAE also set up a university in Dubai which they then closed down last year because it could not generate a return on their investment fast enough. Be careful where you spend your money and make sure it's guaranteed.

[TmE]

Hi,
DAEFA called me for their cadet screening program, which I got back from about a week ago. I must say the whole experience was extremely impressive. The program contains a maths and physics test, a psychometric test, a psychomotor test, flight grading ( conducted on a SR22 sim ), an interview and a GCAA medical. They currently have two SR22s and I was told the rest have been paid for but not delivered yet. One EA500 should be coming early this year. The current batch has just about started flying now.

The instructors (those of which I interacted with) seemed very qualified and seasoned.

You're not just going to be flying over plains as there as hills/mountains in close proximity to the flight academy.

I will be starting my course with them on the 25th of this month.

I'd be glad to answer any other specific questions.

Cheers

[DoggyDip]

Hi TmE,
I also passed my assessment.I shall start on 15th of March,i guess ill be seeing you there :O Gratz, as its going to be interesting year :ok:
Happy New Year everybody;)

[Mike.Park]

Well done on getting through selection!

Did you guys like the facilities? What's on offer accommodation-wise?

[DoggyDip]

Hi Mike,
Its very impressive facility. State-of-the-art classroom,library,briefing/debriefing rooms. Currently the apron is under construction,and it should finish soon. They have 2 CR-22s and they should recieve 4 more in coming couple of months.So total of 6 CR-22s for the first 1/4 of 2009. While i was on tour,they were on last phase of acceptance on B737 simulator.
Accomodation,its 3 bedroom villa which cadet will be assigned to their bedroom.12 month rent is $10000 USD,plus $500 USD refundable housing deposit.Complimentary shuttle service to and from the DAE flight academy is provided as well.
Cheers:ok:

[Mike.Park]

CR-22s

SR-22 perhaps.

[DoggyDip]

Yes SR22.My bad :uhoh:
I guess i was too excited when i was replying to you.Couldnt think straight :}

[SilveR5]

Relax DoggyDip...whatever it was..CR, SR, or even XXXR :}...you have crossed an ocean to make your way down to the cockpit! :ok:

Good luck mate ;)

[TmE]

Congratulations to you too DoggyDip.
When did you go for your screening program?

I was impressed with the facilities. They've got one SR22 Advanced Flight Trainer.
One or two (im not sure) glass cockpit simulator(s) for the same aircraft.
They've also got one 737 simulator.

The thing I liked best best about DAEFA was that at the start of the course they pair you with another cadet known as your 'flying buddy'. You would always be flying together for every mission and also on the international routes. This way you can split your work and stuff. Makes things a little easier.

Another thing is that everytime you fly the simulator the flight along with each move you make is recorded. Then the instructor, you and your flight buddy can discuss what went wrong and how you could've done things better.

Cheers

[DoggyDip]

Thanx TmE,my screening was on 16th and 17th of Dec'08. Yes their facilty is amazing.I personally dont know any flight academy that provides such program like DAEFA. Basically they make sure when you graduate you are ready to enter any airline,making it easy transition for you! :ok:
I'll be starting in March.To be honest,am counting days :ugh:

SilveR5,thanx for your support :O

Flying is my new year resolution

Cheers guys :D

[TmE]

My screening was on the 16th and 17th of december as well!
We went for lunch to that hotel where the cadets are staying currently. Were you there?

[DoggyDip]

Thats strange.We had lunch at the academy! We were 5,they split us in 2 groups.I did psychomotor test then math and physics. We started about 9am. When did u start?

[TmE]

That was on day one. On day 2 we had lunch at the hotel.
I had Maths and Physics first and then the power cut while i was giving my psychometric and psychomotor test.
Were you working for emirates as a Flight Simulator engineer or something?

[jack00]

how do you guys put up with the heat when flying, do those planes have any special cooling eqp other than a wind nozze.

[mach.89]

Hi, i may be joining the DAE academy as well. But i am a foreign national ( Indian ), i would be cautious when investing such a huge amount.
Is there any guarantee for job placement on airlines?
How sure is it that there would be a returns on the investment?
Would appreciate if someone can enlighten on this....

[mach.89]

Hi, is there any job placement guarantee DAE academy offers, once we graduate?

[SilveR5]

Hi there

Without a doubt, like any other FTO, there are not job placement guarantees! However, they promise to prepare students with decent practical and theoretical knowledge up to the minimum level of standards required by airliners.

They have made some agreements with certain employers in the region and elsewhere to place only those graduates who can meet these standards. To my knowledge, the academy is working hard to attract more airliners for similar agreements. I've tried to know who are they, but it seems that these are 100% non-disclosure agreements until now.

This might give you a bit of relief! because once you pass the admission procedures and assessments, you should expect the guys there to support you up until the end. One thing now I know for sure is that DAEFA don't want to risk its reputation by graduating failure pilots and end with them at nowhere! All the data I have gathered so far about the academy appear to be very consistent at this point.

Good luck...

[S.F.L.Y]

once you pass the admission procedures and assessments, you should expect the guys there to support you up until the end

Do they need to keep a minimum graduation ratio to keep their FTO approval ?
If it's like in Europe they can still refuse to let you do the exams if you're not good enough, and you'd still have paid the money. As such I don't see the point of screenings and assessments, they need to make money it's not a charity school.

[Ayla]

The screening process is there to protect the student. DAEFA like most academies, try to ensure that only students who have a reasonable chance of passing the course, part with their money!

I would advise any student who is asked to part with their money without testing to think twice!

[S.F.L.Y]

The screening process is there to protect the student. DAEFA like most academies, try to ensure that only students who have a reasonable chance of passing the course, part with their money!Why would one trust the school on this screening? The purpose of the academy is to train students against money, not to do job interviews. If it is like in Europe when students fails to have the required level the academy does not let them go through the exams, screened students or not, as bad students could compromise the FTO approval. The real screening is AFTER you pay the money, when the academy decides or not to let you attend the exams. These preliminary screenings (which also exists in Europe) seems more like BS to me. You basically pay for it and it makes you feel like you joined the NASA while you're just allowed to spend some money with them. The real thing is when you're authorized to proceed through the exams once you already paid the full course. Without such an approval from the school you cannot attend the exams, and the whole money is just gone.

[Mike.Park]

SFLY,

The assessment of your skills & aptitude is intended to reduce risk to a number of stakeholders.

- Reduces YOUR risk of not being able to cope with intensive training, which may subsequently result in you failing, or not gaining employment post-training thus putting you into financial debt.

- Reduces risk to the FTO. On integrated courses of training, there is little room and few resources available to accommodate students who fall behind or need extra training because they aren't making the mark.

- Reduces risk to the airlines. Airlines who feed off the supply of new pilots from FTOs need some form of guarantee that they can expect new recruits to possess skill-sets and attributes that are sought after by the airline. Allot of airlines today will only consider FTOs have have pre-enrollment assessments in place.

Hope that helps!

[S.F.L.Y]

- Reduces YOUR risk of not being able to cope with intensive training, which may subsequently result in you failing, or not gaining employment post-training thus putting you into financial debt.

This is not the pb of the FTO. If you're in, the FTO takes the money and deliver the course (this is the deal). The FTO doesn't guarantee you that you'll be authorized to attend the exams at the end of the course, screened or not.

- Reduces risk to the FTO. On integrated courses of training, there is little room and few resources available to accommodate students who fall behind or need extra training because they aren't making the mark.

This is not risk for the FTO, if you fail it's your fault. FTOs have to keep something like 70% of successful students. If you're not good enough you will not be authorized to attend the exams, and to get extra training, again, you'll have to pay (this is also the deal)

- Reduces risk to the airlines. Airlines who feed off the supply of new pilots from FTOs need some form of guarantee that they can expect new recruits to possess skill-sets and attributes that are sought after by the airline. Allot of airlines today will only consider FTOs have have pre-enrollment assessments in place.

The guarantee comes from the quality of the training and the licenses delivered through official exams. Screening process are not giving any kind of guarantee. Screenings are organized by FTOs and are totally subjective processes not matching any label or standard. Remember, rejecting a student is rejecting a customer...

[Mike.Park]

If you're in, the FTO takes the money and deliver the course (this is the deal) Incorrect. Like I said in my earlier post, there are allot more stakeholders involved. FTOs have reputations to uphold and will not simply accept cash from the highest bidder. Many FTOs publish graduate employment data and therefor it isnt in there interest to have truck loads of unemployed graduates as this does nothing for a school's reputation.

The FTO doesn't guarantee you that you'll be authorized to attend the exams at the end of the course, screened or not. Assessment of your skills offers no guarantee - The intention is to simply reduce risk and not to offer guarantees. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "authorized". Any exams you take either on the ground or in the air requires you to meet minimum legal requirements for the licence/rating/privilege you'll earn as a result of passing your examination. No FTO can have you sit for an exam where you do not meet minimum licencing requirements.

SFLY, I don't quite understand why your throwing a sissy fit over assessments. You'll be assessed, challenged, poked & prod all the way through your flight training which continues through into commercial service. Get used to it!

There's a good article in CAT magazine about the necessity of aptitude and skill assessments. You can read it here (http://cat.texterity.com/cat/2006-1/?pg=28&pm=1)

[Hot 'n' High]

Mike.Park,

Your Post #60 is an excellent summary of why many FTOs may not want a particular student to train with them! As you say, most of the major FTOs now use such a screening process as explained in the article cited in your Post #63.

Alas, erikN, a student is simply not doing their FTO any favours at all by getting a weak 2nd time pass after flying 30% over the minimum hours simply because they can pay for that luxury. To the FTO, the profit derived from a failing student is far less than the cost to their reputation, in the eyes of both the airlines and future potential good students, through reduced 1st time pass rates which (rightly or wrongly) is a key benchmark used by many people (and airlines) when assessing the quality of an FTO. You may not like the idea – but that’s the way it is!

In addition, a weak student who will probably not make the grade is actually taking up a valuable training slot/resources which could be better utilised to train a “natural” pilot through to an fATPL. Later on, the same “weak” pilot (now with a bare pass fATPL), if finally taken on by an airline, will probably struggle with the conversion and line training, which causes the airline additional headaches (and costs!), something which reflects badly on the FTO in the eyes of the airlines’ Head of Training. Even a failed Sim assessment by an airline prior to any formal conversion training costs them time and money!

Of course, it goes without saying that the GFT and IR produce a minimum standard. However, and most importantly, in Flight Safety terms, if there are people who can achieve better than the “minimum” standard, and do so with ease, then they are the people who should be nurtured by the Aviation Industry, thus ensuring Pax and Cargo gets delivered safely by the best possible crews!

It is a fact of life that, the number of $$$’s in a persons bank account has absolutely no bearing whatsoever to the natural flying ability of the pilot! I guess, if someone does not want to invest a bit up front to check that they will not be risking the $1,000s they will be spending on their course, that is up to them. But, at the end of the day, an FTO does not want to waste their time and reputation on a weak student – no matter how rich they are. And, I for one, only want to fly with the best when the chips are down and my life depends on my buddy sat next to me on the flight deck, or on the two guys/gals up front if I am pax!

Call me picky – but best pilot gets my vote every time, not the richest!

Cheers, H 'n' H

Mods Just an idea, but as this thread seems to be heading off topic now, but is of general interest, would it be better transferred into the mainstream "Training" forum? I just came across this by chance while browsing!

[S.F.L.Y]

This is not going off topic, we're talking about DAE's screening process which to me is similar to many other. As for getting used to being screened I think I already did my time thank you :\

I'm not criticizing this academy at all as the main point is the quality of the delivered training and not the screening process. You can believe in any screening reason you want, these are all up to the academy and not matching any official requirement. FTO's failure rate is determine on the actual exams failure and do not include students which are not attending the exams. You can be screened 10 times, go through the whole NASA selection process, if at the end of the course the FTO thinks you might fail, you will not get the FTO certificate which will enable you to go to the exams. This is how FTOs are keeping good records, and that is AFTER you pay. What you don't get in my point is that I'm not trying to say FTOs are good or bad. Some might screen people for good reasons, some not: there is no standard for that and after all as long as there is no medical objection I don't see any reason why a student couldn't pay for a volume of training, even if some might consider him as stupid.

I'm just trying to explain to the younger public that they should keep in mind that they are in a commercial process where they are the customers who are paying for a service. There is nothing worse than a young guy working hard for his training and who is not allowed to attend the exam just because the FTO thinks he could compromise their stats. FTO screenings are NOT job interviews.

[Hot 'n' High]

Hiya S.F.L.Y., I understand a bit better now what you are trying to achieve regarding the screening issue – pointing out that they are not a mandatory legal requirement. While most screening processes are based on tried and tested standards, I agree some are perhaps less well “tried and tested” – I can think of one for an Air Taxi operator which was well intentioned but a bit strange to put it mildly when I was told about it! Mike.Park can take the hit about how much screening you have personally endured! ;)

I can’t comment on this particular FTOs quality as I don’t know them. As I said, I stumbled across this thread while surfing of a rainy UK evening with little on TV, but I did think that the topic of Screening is often a source of debate here in the UK. In that more generic guise, I felt that the subject deserves much wider publicity through the mainstream Training forums which is where this topic would reach a much wider audience. Perhaps a Thread split would be more appropriate as the overall question regarding DAE posed by SilveR5 is a valid one and which many prospective students may find useful. Just an idea......!

I must admit, from your initial posts, I did get the impression that, not directed specifically at DAE but at all FTO’s, you were suggesting that Screening was simply a way for FTO’s to make a quick buck and the process served very little use outside that. Your aim of explaining such screening is entirely laudable (and worthy of wider dissemination) but I would venture that the reasons for screening from any FTOs point of view go much deeper than initially meets the eye, and potential students should be aware of that. While I agree that published Pass Rates do not include those not presented for Test, they often do include the percentage of 1st Time passes – one reason for an FTO to ensure only the best students fill the available slots.

Many FTOs do not want weak students who do eventually pass (I doubt many students would spend $1,000s and simply walk away from the Course) to be associated with them at Airline interviews and further on during their airline training. Even the fact they may complete their training elsewhere can be seen as a “black mark” against the original FTO. I can guess where the potential FO will pin the blame when asked at Interview why they switched!!! I would venture that the phrase “I was such a poor student that the FTO would not issue a 170A (the UK tick required before a student can present himself/herself for Test)” will not be top of the list of excuses used! :ooh: As I said in my last post, the additional financial profit to be made from a weak student simply will not outweigh the negative impact on the credibility of the FTO. After all "bad news always sticks; good news is always forgotten" when it comes to reputations!

I agree potential students should be made fully aware of why any FTO may want to screen potential students and not accept them – no matter how much money the potential student has! Am I paranoid? Well, apart from the fact that I know that “they are all out to get me” :eek: I don’t think so! It’s just that I’ve seen enough of the training system as a Student and as an Instructor to know just how much FTOs prize their reputation – certainly here in the UK. Hence the Screening! I guess the real question is why should the student pay? That, alas, seems to be the accepted norm. Anyway, think I understand where you are coming from a bit better now. :ok:

Cheers, H 'n' H

[SilveR5]

Hey guys..

Is there any new stuff about the academy?

[SilveR5]

Hi muzcontractor

Yeah I've heard about the Citation...and I think it's a better option than Eclipse 500 anyway..

all the best to your brother :ok:

[SilveR5]

muzcontractor

Since you have mentioned it..I've got some questions here

1) Where would cadets fly to during their training missions on the jet? I've heard they will fly to intra-gulf cities, India and Turkey too.

2) Regarding the job placement offers right after successfully attaining the licence, are there any disclosed names of employers or airline companies of which cadets will take advantage in recruitment?

By the way, at which stage is your brother now of his training? Any delays so far?

Thanks buddy

[Itswindyout]

parked outside the facility last week.

Not certain as to the model.

sorry.

windy

[malirm]

Hi Guys & Guls, I will be starting my flight training on the coming Sunday (22nd of March), I'll do my best to have some time to post some info about the academy & their partnerships with airlines...is there anybody going to attend with me on the coming Sunday??

[Itswindyout]

Who made the decision to buy the fleet of trainers, not a very inspired decision. ?

How many students are there in RAK.?

Is DAE actully part of Emirates, even if not brothers, then blood brothers.?

Will they last out the month.?

Is the Citation parked on their stands owned by them, or impounded by the airport.?

Many questions.?

windy

[onhmss]

Latest rumour circulating in RAK is that they will be closing in May !

What a place !

Last to leave out turn out ...........

[SilveR5]

onhmss..are you talking about the airport itself??! what about DAEFA?!

[onhmss]

DAEFA, as per the thread title.

[Ayla]

If true, that would be a shame!

[SilveR5]

Some cadets have been accepted for March intake already..and no1 from the previous cadets has completed the training yet...!! I don't think that DAEFA will go busted that simple!! I think it's just a rumour

[Ayla]

Hopefully it won't go the same way as DAE University!

[onhmss]

I've never heard of DAE University, do tell.........................

[malirm]

Hi guys, I am a student of DAE FA, where I was supposed to start on the 22nd of March, but due to the Security Clearances & Background checks that must be done for Ab-Intio cadets (New Rule by the GCAA & Police)...the course was delayed till mid April...where I was the only one to get the security clearance till this moment (4 more cadets togo).

About closing DAE FA or any other bad rumours...DAE FA is fine & are reconsidering their purchase of the Eclipse 500, where they are thinking of switching to the Phenom 100 or the Citation Mustang!, & accordingly get the FTDs.

About DAE FA being owned by Emirates...ofcourse not, but HH Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_bin_Saeed_Al_Maktoum) is the Owner/CEO of DAE & Emirates Plus a couple of other businesses...

About the Cadets & their job placements, the first batch of cadets will be graduating in July this year...this is due to the Economic Crisis that affected the delivery of the Eclipse Jets!, about the job placements, some confidential stuff is going on there (at the Academy) where some airlines had a visit to the Academy & admired it! in addition to other Business jet companies that are looking for pilots to fly their VLJs & other Business Jets, an insider told me that an agreement will be there sometime before July hopefully.

ByTheWay, DAE FA is looking for a Max of 10 cadets per intake & not any cadets...I mean, I went through 3 days of intensive screening & Interviews & finally passed...while the other candidates couldn't make it, only 3 made through out of 7 applicants!, these people are not looking for the money, but looking for the quality! :ugh:

[CptOverRoger]

Anyone who has any issues or questions regarding the academy can post them to me and I will gladly give you the inside news (to the extent that's feasible).

[malirm]

Hi Captain, can you confirm the info I posted up...:ok:

[CptOverRoger]

Well from what I've heard the first batch will not graduate till the middle of next year. As for the jets they are planning to get for training purposes, DAEFA has almost finalized the deal with Cessna for the twin engined Citation Mustang as you must know that Eclipse has been eclipsed. Having no buyers for the company, they had to shut down and DAEFA had to change its standards for aircrafts.
The screening program is very intense as these first few cadets will make the base of this academy worldwide. Quality is much more important at the moment.
Job placement is not guaranteed from the academy but they will do their best to highlight you amongst other potential candidates for the job.
I read a few posts about DAE shutting down. That is not true. DAEFA is doing fine as of now and should continue to do so unless the recession becomes a depression and even then theres no saying that it will shut down.

[S.F.L.Y]

About the job placements, some confidential stuff is going on there (at the Academy) where some airlines had a visit to the Academy & admired it! in addition to other Business jet companies that are looking for pilots to fly their VLJs & other Business Jets, an insider told me that an agreement will be there sometime before July hopefully.

Business Jet companies are not looking for pilots, and more particularly for VLJs. Beside some issues with insurances in case companies wants to have new aircraft models being operated by cadets, VLJs are not really designed to perform under the GCC climate. Do you know companies still pretending to operate VLJs in the region (except one Mustang in Beirut) ?

[CptOverRoger]

The information that all of us have is partly true and partly incorrect. I advise all of you not to take anything to be a sure shot decision or verdict to what is actually happening.
From what I know about DAEFA, they have successfully managed to close the deal with Cessna for their Mustang jet as the Eclipse jet has been eclipsed from the scene.
As for the first batch, they will be graduating by March to April of the coming year and not this June/July. DAEFA has quite an intensive screening procedure as they are definitely looking for cadets who can handle the airline workload and work as a crew rather than most other flying schools that offer you PPL to CPL, etc but no training on working as a crew and making decisions. In those terms DAE has done an incredible job only to make sure that the first few cadets graduating from the academy are able to put in a good word worldwide and encourage other students who dream to work for the airlines someday. The question of them surviving in this time of tight finances is something that only time will tell. Every organization is going through a rough time and so is DAE, without a doubt but DO NOT mistake this as a criteria for the organization to shut down all of its resources especially after having closed the university in a flash. They cannot afford to do so.
Airlines have visited the academy and admired at their bold techniques and a strong hold on giving out a certified ATPL license in the course of a years time as a minima.
They are currently operating their Cirrus SR22 G3 fleet and are due to get their first jet sometime in September.

[malirm]

hi there...I'm not sure about your info, but aircraft manufacturers do consider this climate & this market, please visit the VLJs websites to see what are the operating conditions...till this moment I am sure that the Mustangs, Phenoms & Eclipse jets are operational here!, BTW you don't have to takeoff at 12pm in 48 C...you can takeoff at 3pm when its 36 C!

[S.F.L.Y]

Malirm, VLJs and airliners have very different engines and the ISA+10 flat rating of most VLJs is a serious limitation in terms of performances and safety margin.
If your family had to travel by car from Dubai to Jeddah in July would you prefer a Rolls Royce in the fifth gear at1800 RPM or two Yaris in the third gear (flat rating) at 3500 RPM ?

[malirm]

Thanks for the info...I think the Operation of the Jets will be seasonal then, or in cool days!...I'll research it soon :)

Talking about cars, I'd prefer a Yaris, as this car comes with GCC Specs while the RR is a RR whereever you go...but I will have to change/modify the cooling system every time the Temp rises!!!, same as alots of EU cars & American cars...specially 2002 models & backwards...BTW I didn't consider the humidity down here!!! nor the dusty winds

Hope the VLJs arriving are a kinda modified for this climate :ok:

[jamestaylor]

Is Matt Wood teaching there?

[CptOverRoger]

Yes he does. General Navigation and Instruments are his two subjects.

[S.F.L.Y]

Talking about cars, I'd prefer a Yaris, as this car comes with GCC Specs while the RR is a RR whereever you go...but I will have to change/modify the cooling system every time the Temp rises!!!, same as alots of EU cars & American cars...specially 2002 models & backwards...BTW I didn't consider the humidity down here!!! nor the dusty winds

Hope the VLJs arriving are a kinda modified for this climate http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

I think you took my words little bit too literally. I was basically highlighting design weaknesses of the VLJs in the region and there is of course no high climate versions of these small jets. Have a look at how the Beech Premier is behaving in hot operations and you will understand my point. As to operate only in cool weather, how can you then break even on the operations? The very very basic design of any jet engine is too operate high altitude, cold air and long range flights, not the contrary... (specific engines have been designed for that kind of operations)

[DeltaT]

Job applications just closed for Instructors to work there, so they can't be closing down!

The Cessna Mustang is the VLJ they will be using, I confirmed by phone call to them.

[BlueSky1]

I know one of the instructors working there. Last I spoke to him he was very positive about the Academy and the prospect of flying Jets, though I've been told that nothing has been confirmed about the Mustang yet...although very probable considering that Eclipse has gone 'belly up'.

If the Academy IS closing down, why hasn't he been told yet? Is my friend and colleague going to go to work one day only to be told that he hasn't got a job anymore? Or is this just the way the Academy operates i.e. keep all the staff in the dark without any communication till the last minute?

It's probably a good thing that I didn't apply for a job there. I don't like working with uncertainty. I believe it doesn't make for a healthy working environment. At least I know MY current job is secure!:uhoh:

[SilveR5]

Hi ichenel

To my knowledge, the answer is "No"!!

There isn't such kind of financial facilitation with any banks that could be related to DAEFA tuition fees. Cadets should make their own arrangements when it comes to money! I can sense from your words that you are comparing this type of financial aid to that available with FTO,s in Europe and Australia. Unfortunately, this is not valid over here.:=

[CptOverRoger]

The culture in the gulf is completely different to what you see elsewhere around the world. The trend on this side of the globe is more to do the job today and get sacked when needed. You cannot argue or challenge any of these rules here. The instructors can be kept in the dark even minutes before they are sacked. Confidentiality plays a big role here. Besides, I'm very sure they all know that the word is around about DAE in trouble. These kind of things are never publicised so all of us being kept in the dark is perfectly alright.

[CptOverRoger]

DAE has been in trouble and this was confirmed 2 weeks back when Emirates, Etihad, Air Arabia and a few other airlines had a meeting with the DAE group in Dubai and it was then disclosed to them that the flight academy is up for sale.
Due to the progress of the course and the base of this academy not being structured like an aviation course, DAE finally decided to let an airline treat it as its own training facility.
Emirates and Etihad are the 2 most promising candidates to take up the offer as of now.
DAE has now disclosed it to all major airlines in the middle east about their lack of structure and failure to get aircrafts and continue the course as planned. Due to this, the current batch will finish later than planned and the aircrafts on order will be down at DAE sooner

[AhmadKSA]

I know a friend at the Academy he got his contract with them and start on May 23rd 2009 , I am very Interested to join him .

Is there any chance of me joining him on the course ? because Iam worried after reading all these comments about the Academy Closing.

No one told me it was going to close , and Iam really keen to start the course.

what should I do ?

[gilderoy lockhart]

AhmedKSA.

Go and talk to the people at DAEFA and voice your concerns. There are somes decent people there who I am sure will tell you what (if anything) is going on.

[malirm]

Hi Guys & Guls, I was on the phone with a DAE FA representative & asked him clearly if he even heard something about selling DAEFA or anything...well, he just told me that these are pure rumours...

I don't really know if this is right, but lets wait & see :cool:

[capt Johnson]

hey buddies

let me tell you the truth about DAE they promise but fail ask any one there or any new students coming if ever they have started.

the chair of emirates has stopped financing them, so its either a shut down or a sell off which i doubt any one would buy off ,

they paint a rosy picture but its not the truth, the management make it look professional but it is full of politics and who is able to seduce poor candidates of their money

their flying program has even been reduced ,more sims than actual and 100 000 us dollars plus their agreement with airlines all false and not disclosing it if they were in partnership their students should be informed and made to keep it private or an expulsion but no, many instructors have made a wrong decision leaving their previous academies or airlines to this
trust me

[DeltaT]

anyone have an update on whats happening there?

[S.F.L.Y]

It is wiser to spend money in a European academy where you can get JAR license and much complete experience (weather, procedures, traffic etc.) than a UAE license in a flat hot and sunny country with Cat III 3500m runways. This is not to mention the smart decision about the Eclispe as a trainer... I am not willing to offend people from DAE who I'm sure are professionals but as far as I can see there is not so many benefits to get trained over there (if this is still on the way...)

[highnhot]

need some local responses...bad...even from the company...there is much not being told here.:ugh:the eclipse deal is dead, has been for a few months. they have none.:= wont get any. current students what are you told your jet time will be in :bored: the 2 cirrus are grounded the diesel engines are gone:* so avgas at 16-18 usd per gal doesnt sound too economic:sad: whaaaaa???:=do i go or not:sad::sad:

[.air]

have they hired any Flight Instructor.If any one has any information please PM me

[RollInOut]

In case anyone is curious, DAEFA is no more. They couldn't find a buyer, they didn't have the right people in the top of the company, and lets face it, they couldn't do anything there anyway. You can't fly for five months out of the year and even if you could, their instructor turn over rate is over 65%. They had little to no safety culture and they were buggard from the onset.

A group of people there, who actually cared about the academy making it were told to shut up. I heard that someone had to call the factory just to make sure they were fixing an airplane right and he was canned for it. What a culture they have there. Personally, I say kuddos to him for stepping up to them and trying to bring oblivious problems to their attention. But that's not how things are done there.

Well, guess another one bites the dust. Wish they would have done better. This place looked pretty good and as a fellow wanabe, can't believe they couldn't make better with an almost unlimited budget. Talking to a few of the students I know that WENT there, I wouldn't have any trust in the top three people running the place and wouldn't want them at any company I worked for. They lied the whole time to everyone even the empliyees and were so under qualified that it was doomed from the start of this year. Of course no names, but the Program Manager, HT and DOP are the ones they said having and causing the biggest problem and ran it into the ground.

It's a sad day in history when a company with almost unlimited resources can't even convince someone to purchase them for fills on the dirham. Sad, sad, sad.

Well, when one goes down another will come up I guess. Seems to be what I have seen in the aviation world in the last 36 years I have been a part of it.

[highnhot]

Will the students get refunds or any kind of credits for the wasted time ...anyone heard of contingency planning when things dont go quite as planned...i want these guys on my next flight crew. would add a few sads to previous post. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[sandboxteacher]

They might have not had unlimited funds, but they still had a huge amount of capital behind them. More than most other flight schools that have started. Still, it is a shame. RollInOut, I would have to agree with you on that. I still think everyone should look at the www.daeflightacademy.com (http://www.daeflightacademy.com) website and take a good look at the profiles of the people on it and then think hard about what words can mean if they are used in the perfect way.

Maybe something good will come out of this though.

There was "Top ten ways to save the Flight Academy" list but it's beyond a point of where it could mean anything. Sounds like business as normal for that part of the world.

Good luck to all of you former DAEFA employees and wish you all nothing but the best.

[Dualinput]

No company has unlimited resources! If it does not make money, it WILL shut down...

[Mike.Park]

I had high hopes for DAEFA. Does Morris still work there?

[SilveR5]

Too bad !!!

[onhmss]

when he was an undergraduate or when he was getting his masters degree ??? or whilst being director with a US airline ? :rolleyes:

[Mike.Park]

when did you know him ?

knew him working for DAEFA

[Dualinput]

So where are the students and instructors going? Horizon? Alpha? Fujairah?

[malirm]

Bad to hear the news about DAE FA, I was a potential cadet who went for Alpha Aviation Academy at the end of the way (changed my mind suddenly).

I was with one of Alpha's employees last week, where he told me that he was on the phone with DAEFA Management & they were talking about offering DAEFA cadets some seats in the MPL program or so!

As Soon As I get some news...I'll keep you updated, hope for the best though :ok:

[onhmss]

its all over then, another great success for RAK !
All staff terminated a few days ago,


when will people learn you need more than a few bright lights and tinsel.......

[Mike.Park]

:bored: So it's going under? Will it be made public?

[ShinjukuHustler]

Details of severance packages due out this coming monday according to my sources. The sad thing about this whole farce is that they all knew it was coming...months and months ago! At least those at the top knew about it. Some had their heads in the proverbial sand while happily cruising down that long river in Egypt but some of the realists were out job hunting back in Feb.

As one previous poster commented, another phenomenal RAK success...now what's the latest on that space station, I'm just dying for a go!

Hustle on!

[Mike.Park]

How unfortunate. I'm just worried about the cadets who started their training with DAEFA... are they going to be left out of pocket?

[ShinjukuHustler]

Out of pocket? I don't know but that is what usually happens when one of these things goes knockers up. Not sure how these things go in Emirates but in the real world the recievers would come in and value anything valubale that the company owned (aircraft, training materials, company vehicles, IT equipment etc) and divvy up the proceeds of it when it was sold. The spoils would generally go to the creditors as it is deemed more important to prevent other businesses from going out of business as it were due to debts from another business going bust. The little guys tend to get zilch. At least that's what happened to the US based school where I did my training, but that was a long time ago and I was finished before they called last orders.

The promising thing about this however is that the staff are getting severance packages so this money is coming from somewhere, perhaps Big Brother has thrown a few pennies their way to wind up without any tears.

The might have had a fund for such things also but doubtful.

Makes you wonder if Alpha will survive too.

Speaking of Alpha, I saw some mention of students from DAE being transferred across but these courses are not the same as far as I can see. One is the more tradtional ab-initio type, albeit on modern aircraft, while the other is the more modern MPL with all the focus on flying a big jet. I don't know how you could seamlessly transfer these kids from one to the other, especially those who had completed alot of their training. It would be costly to go back to scratch and start over but there doesn't seem to be any other way to blend them in...perhaps I'm wrong.

Out of curiosity, what was the cost of the full package from 0hrs to frozen ATPL / Multi IR?

Will post info as it comes my way.

Good luck,

Hustle On!:ok:

[SilveR5]

Out of curiosity, what was the cost of the full package from 0hrs to frozen ATPL / Multi IR?


Dhs370,000@ DAEFA

Dhs440,000@ Alpha (MPL of course)

I wonder how would the figure look like as a result of shifting cadets, if this ever happens, from DAEFA to Alpha?!! Particularly, for those who have completed a significant portion of their training with DAEFA...Guys, I'm paying for your ice-blended Mocha!

[gilderoy lockhart]

The only bit of the course that could be transferable/recognised is the groundschool hours (750 min), as ATPL and MPL requirements are the same.

[superman_32]

With regards to the old aircraft that QAC uses mixture of PA28, PA34s and DA42 apart from the DA 42 yeah they might be old body wise but the maintainance is fantastic. Yeah I heard that their operations is limited to ISA+ 30 as the performance is markedly reduced <300 fpm. ROC.

With regards to DAE I heard they are going under unfortunetly. As I wanted to learn to fly their. Nice equipment they got but a shame. oh well.

[ShinjukuHustler]

Way back when I did my training folks were careful with their pennies, they were hard won as many were not born with the proverbial silver spoon. Research was done on any potential school to try to choose right, to try to find a good one that wouldn't take your money and run, to pick the one that had a proven track record of turning out student pilots who would be ready to take on the next phase of their airline careers. It seems like DAE and others like them scrutinised you much harder than you scrutinised them, that was one of their great deceptions, fooling prospective students into thinking that they were the 'chosen ones'.

For those reading this who intend to fly, ignore the brochures and fancy pictures as they are only marketing. Marketing is a cheap and despicable career of the uneducated, there is no substitute for reputation in this business and those who fall for glossy brochures will be sorely disappointed.

Obviously I won't tout any school by name but there are many good ones out there just...
DO YOUR RESEARCH!

Hustle on!

[sandboxteacher]

Most of the students at DAEFA had little to no flight time and minus a few who had to repeat the ground school course a few times because DAEFA wasn't ready for them to move on, the real reason, they should have little to no issue moving into to an MPL course. The only difference is that they will have a bit of a base to work off of when they get there. I know a few of the ground courses they had started were pretty descent, all be it under prepared, but the instructors themselves made it work as well as they could.

[Mike.Park]

Whatever happened to the kiwi DAEFA instructor? Is he on PPRuNE?

[Donstyler]

If anyone has any questions about what happened at DAEFA feel free to private msg me.

Ex-Student.

[OMDB-PiLoT]

@Don - Do you have more than what we already know? If yes, then just share it here. What's with the secret talk? After all, this is the rumor network ;)

[Mike.Park]

I want to know whats happened to their SR22s.

Were they on lease? if not, have they sold them on?

[Donstyler]

The two SR22 G3's were owned by DAEFA. Currently they are still parked up in RAK.