DL upgrades ATL-JNB to B777-200LR

[AT502B]

According to a Delta press release yesterday, DL will fly their new B777LR nonstop to JNB and nonstop back to ATL. Surely the return would be pushing the bird to the max?

They also added numerous flights to other parts of Africa. Nice to see an American carrier finally making an effort to serve the Dark Continent.
Press release can be seen at Delta to Offer Customers Service to More Unique International Destinations in 2009:Delta Newsroom (http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=11185)

[evanb]

I think they will struggle to get the 777-200LR JNB-ATL with a decent payload (with any payload). I can foresee them making unscheduled stops in Dakar (or even Sal or maybe even Cape Town) relatively regularly!

Interesting that they are moving the CPT flight to ATL and reducing the frequency to three times a week (from four) - it is still a net gain in capacity! I think ATL gives them better connectivity in the US and since the JNB flight is no longer stopping in DKR they do not need to have the connecting option there!

[evanb]

JNB-ATL: 8439 mi - would be the world's fifth longest non-stop by distance, not a chance out of JNB no matter what aircraft! Even with a weight restriction this is going to be too much!

[merlinxx]

Maybe WDH, at least it's got the length.

[evanb]

Its not the length that is the problem! Its the tire speed restrictions at hot and high and WDH might have some problems there (not very high, but very hot)! If they choose a tech stop they are going to go somewhere where they have a presence, hence Sal or Dakar, even Lagos!

[WhinerLiner]

I think maybe, just maybe, Delta had a look at this before making the decision. Considering they operate hundreds of aircraft and have done so for decades, the point of departure that they are too thick to understand the limitations may be neither fair nor valid.

If not keep an eye on your PM box 'cause I'm sure they will be sending an offer through shortly.

[grjplanes]

it is still a net gain in capacity

Is it really, somewhere on Airliners.net someone mentioned that Delta's 77L has 9 seats less than the 767-400ER that DL currently use to JNB.

[evanb]

Yeah, but not stopping in Dakar provides more seats for sale from Joburg hence the net increase in capacity. Atlanta to Dakar will still remain daily since Cape Town will remain 3 days per week and Atlanta to Nairobi (via Dakar) 4 days per week!

[evanb]

A post from another forum. The author of the post works for Emirates, the only airline who has actually used a 777-200 LR from Joburg, so they have some idea about the performance of the aircraft from the field. The post is pretty convincing that Delta are going to struggle, either by having to stop or taking a massive penalty!

Delta will be starting to operate JNB-ATL direct from next year sometime.
The Delta res system says 02 Jun Dep JNB 2105 arr ATL 0720.

I don't see Delta operating this route direct from JNB due to high restrictions on take off due to the high elevation
of JNB and possible high temperatures during the summer even with Delta departing 2 hours later and a lower
temperature then, they will still face some problems.

Just did a few performance calculations based on another carrier using the B777-200LR.

Based on today's wind calculations and take off data for JNB.
Rwy03L (Best Rwy)
Flying time 16H20
Fuel Burn 121400kgs
Sector Fuel 130800kgs
RTOW 324000kgs (MTOW 343300kgs) Including Packs off, Alternate CG, Thrust bump
Wind 360/04kt , Temp 19 , Q1018

Based on a RTOW of 324000kgs the RZFW will be 193900kgs (MZFW 209100kgs)
This means with a RTOW witch results in a RZFW the B777-200LR will be loosing
15200kgs of payload.

I also understand that the winds change everyday and u might get more payload everyday, but the fact remains they will not get MTOW out of JNB even at a temperature of 0.
RTOW at 0c is 330000kgs.

[moutere101]

Even with a RZFW of 193900kg, with a DOW of ~163700kg payload will be about 30t which is ~ max passenger (281*110kg incl bags). At an average 85% passenger load fa ctor there would be weight available for some cargo.

[MoKa777]

It is great that this thread has resurfaced. Possibility for good discussion!

@moutere101, I hear also that the yields are good on this flight.

What would the per hour fuel burn be for this flight? Based on the numbers from evanb i get a figure of between 7500kg to 8000kg.

[hatman]

Have used this service for the last 6 years. Flight is always full and never had an issue. Well done to Delta.... As you go into Atlanta a Delta hub you can get almost anywhere in the US without going to another hub first. Try any of the other airlines and see...

[stilton]

hatman, trivial pursuit here, have you ever timed that take off roll ?


I imagine it's longish.