Ryanair safety

[ladylily63]

I am new to this forum and have just read some uncomplimentary discussions about Ryanair via a link whilst reading about today's incident. I fly frequently around Europe with low cost carriers and others, however have never flown Ryanair. I feel like cancelling my flight for the new year after what I've read- that they compromise passengers' safety to meet their tight deadlines. Could anyone (passengers or pilots) reasuure me please or is it true?

I realise you get what you pay for regarding seating, baggage etc and don't mind as it is only EMA to AGP.

Many thanks in anticipation

[VAFFPAX]

From what I've heard, one thing that Ryanair does not compromise on is passenger safety and aircraft maintenance. I'd continue with the flight - The birdstrike this morning was unfortunate, as were the incidents involving cabin decompression over France and others.

As much as I am a big critic of Ryanair, I'd still consider them a very safe airline to fly with.

S.

[charlie76]

I second that! I have a bad fear of flying and I am booked to fly with Ryanair on the 20th November to Fueterventura and I am now even more frightened than ever.
I understand that the bird strike could happen to any plane and it was just in the wrong place at the wrong time but the other incidents worry me.

[ladylily63]

Thanks for your quick response and honesty. Can I just make it clear I wasn't blaming Ryanair for today's unfortunate incident; from what I read the pilots should be congratulated for averting what could have been a major disaster.

What I read was regarding heavy landings and flying too low :confused:

[Rainboe]

Ryanair is as good as any airline in the country, and I don't work for them. I commuted weekly with them and was perfectly happy, and I work in the industry.

Whilst you feel your question is necessary, that's it. There is no justification for casting doubt on their saafety. If you are too nervous, either go by train or pluck up the courage to fly, but please don't keep bleeding about it in a professional pilots forum. You have your answer- if you are still too afraid, then don't fly. It's quite simple. If you can get yourself on the aeroplane, don't make a scene. You have to remember the staff on those planes are happy to fly every day of their working lives!

[radeng]

The most dangerous part of flying commercially is the motorway to and from the airport. Especialy in some countries - Turkey, India and Italy always frighten me. Statistically, you are far more likey to be in a road accident anywhere in the world rather than in an aeroplane.

[TopBunk]

Firstly, I work in the industry, and have for nigh on 20 years (not as long as Rainboe, with whom I have flown some years ago!).

I believe that Ryanair operate with probably the youngest average fleet in Europe. As such their maintenance requirements should be (a) reduced and (b) under warranty! From that perspective, no issues.

From a crewing and copmmercial aspect however, I would be more concerned.

As I understand it, they use crews from a multitude of states, often with limited skills in english as a common language, and a variety of backgrounds re CRM expectations. Furthermore, I am led to believe that the levels of punctuality expected of them from commercial pressures can be countra safety. As I perceive it, this has led to a number of safety related incidents in the past (CIA and Stockholm come to mind). For me, the above reasons would see me choosing to fly with somebody else, given the choice.

I'd rather be 10 minutes late in this world than 20 years early in the next.

I'm sorry, but it's a big no-no to RYR from me:=

[ladylily63]

I was under the impression that this was a passenger's area of the forum to air their concerns and I am sorry if I offended anyone.

I don't really think you are justified to say i was casting doubt and bleeding about it. I just asked a simple question and balanced this out by saying that the Ryanair pilots should be commended for getting the plane safely down and the passengers off.

I do fly regularly and am not making a scene!

Thank you to all those who replied with a positive response to my post

[turbocharged]

I've worked with them, I still fly on them. Sure, they have a reputation (whether it is justified or not is something different). I'm sure we could all list airlines we think are unsafe ... but there are a lot worse out there. I would never advise anyone not to travel with Ryanair on safety grounds. Customer care ... now that's different. But O'L has always said that if you want to pay bus prices, expect to travel on a bus.

[Rainboe]

Well to me, TB, a schedule is a schedule. It's 'you get me there on time, dead or alive, or else!' They haven't killed anyone yet despite their giant fleet. Any misbehaviour by the pilots is severely dealt with (MOL said so himself). I like them, they go ontime, and they are good with schedule.

We Brits tend to worry about the stupid stuff, and not what really is dangerous. Aeroplanes is safe. Go down a High St on a Saturday night. There are Brits who have imbibed/injected/sniffed too much of whatever is their fancy, and they are lying in the street in the dark or fighting. National hobby. They drive- bloody dangerous occupation, especially women drivers doing their lipstick in their rear view mirrors. And when it comes to the safest place in the UK- the cabin of a jet, and it's 'hold my hand, I'm frightened! I need reassurance to fly! I'm too precious to travel on Ryanair!' What! Well go get reassurance elsewhere, because your head ain't screwed on right!

And you can't 'cancel' your flight. You have forfeited the whole shooting match! Now let's see if you chicken out!

[stevef]

I've flown with Ryanair many times and have complete confidence in them, from maintenance right up to the sharp end. I do occasionally have problems, though, with understanding cabin announcements from those whose first language isn't English. Some of this of course isn't helped by slight speaker distortion and ambient noise (such as pax talking through safety briefings) but the accents can be a little hazy until you tune your ears in.
Then again, I always pay attention to safety cards.

[ladylily63]

I can assure you I encounter life and death situations every day in my job and my head is screwed on!

[Rhodes13]

Topbunk I have never heard such utter crap in my entire life. We at RYR are never pushed to "be on time" and sorry but there are no CRM issues due to the variety of nationalities. Isn't that what SOP's are for?

Tell me do you not fly Easy, CX, SIA, Korean, Emirates et al because they have all these different nationalities? Here's an idea find me an airline that doesn't have a fairly wide range of diverse cultures and ill tell you when pigs fly! Its amazing what people hear as gossip and then pass it off as fact. The incidents you refer to had nothing to do with CRM from a lack of understanding but rather incapacitation of some sort. Stress on the NYO one and loss of situational awareness from the second from memory.

To the original poster. RYR has an excellent safety record especially considering we operate over 1000 flights a day. Do things occasionally happen? Yes and that is unfortunate but does it make RYR unsafe? No, we will learn from the lessons and try to prevent them from occurring again!

Ask yourself this, do you think I would go to work if I knew it was dangerous? I like to come home at the end of the day as well, as long as I come home you'll come home safe and sound and in one piece!

[barry lloyd]

ladylily63


Let's go back to your first post. I've worked closely with crews from Ryanair easyJet and other low-cost carriers.
As was shown by today's incident, the crews of these airlines are capable of dealing with emergencies and, as others have pointed out, they have some of the newest, both in terms of technology and age, of the airliners flying today. I don't think you can have a better set of circumstances than that.
There is some inherent snobbery in the airline industry towards the lo-cos.
Mr O'Leary has the perhaps unique distinction for an Irishman, of getting up just about everyone's nose, and this has probably added to the overall impression that cost-cutting takes place at all levels in the lo-cos.
I will agree that the PA is sometimes difficult to understand when spoken by someone whose first language is not English, but then foreign airlines, many of them the national carrier, have the same problem.
I understand your concern, but I've flown with them a number of times, especially in the early days, and with forty years' experience in aviation, I didn't experience anything which gave me cause for concern.
I can assure you that driving along the M1/M6/M62 worries me far more than flying Ryanair.

[ladylily63]

Thank you Rhodes that has provided me with some reassurance, I didn't mean to sound negative in my original post I think unfortunately some people have taken it wrong. I have nothing against low cost carriers and I am not afraid of flying and I will look forward to experiencing my first flight with Ryanair.

Regards

[Rainboe]

But you're going to cry, aren't you? Have a little sniffle? Because you're so precious? Quite ignoring the fact that people like us have been doing it every day of our working existences (well almost). So it's OK for us, we're not important? But for you....you're special- too good to be 'hazarded'? Is that the logic?

If you can pluck up the courage, please don't cross yourself before take-off! When I see that, it makes me very annoyed.

[dontpressthat]

Rainboe...

Why cant religous types cross themselves?

Im not atall religous in any way shape or form, never have been but the missus is and crosses herself before stepping onto an aeroplane. Shes not petrified or fearing death infact she loves aeroplanes, flying and aviation (even with me up front).
Its just something she feels comfortable doing as she does when she walks into a church etc.

Please explain.

DPT

[Btp]

because of price of fuel and all the pressure keeping the costs down,a memo has been released via ryanair internal system giving performance figures for single engine take off and landing.When possible crews will only use left engine and over a twelve month period 50 million will be saved.so to answer your question LADYLILY63 put the pound you spent down to experience and get a flight with one of the safe airlines like XL or FUTURA

[radeng]

If one looks at the history of Ryanair incidents, the first thing is that they are very, very few, and the second is that the few there have been were always apparently extremely well handled. I don't fly them because I like to get to the advertised city, and not one lots of miles away. Plus the fact that Heathrow is convenient.

But I wouldn't decry them for their safety record.

[Seat62K]

Reminds me of the 97 respondents who chose XL as the airline they will never fly with again on the BBC Watchdog survey. Them and everyone else! (Thinking about it, though, perhaps they read the question in a different way! Can I change my choice of "airline I will never fly with again" to BOAC, please?)

[clareprop]

I am constantly amazed how this Rainboe character continually gets away with rude and abusive posts. A simple question is asked on an SLF forum and off "it" goes.
I cannot believe Rainbow is a pilot or has ever been in any form of command...possible a frustrated engineer?

[Capot]

I have been working with (NB not for) Ryanair for some months now, and I will add to the chorus of those who insist that their standards are very high.

There is a perfectly sound economic reason for this. It's the cheapest way to run an airline.

So far as maintenance is concerned, I have experience of many UK operators operating standards, from BAF in the old days to BA now. Ryanair is as good as or better than all of them, mostly better, in its adherence to the spirit and letter of the regulations, as well as in its corporate culture that "we must be best, because people expect us not to be".

Those who know BA well will spot the difference there.

It is also better than most if not all of the larger European and US operators;(including those that declare a policy of perfection, or whatever that is in German) not difficult in some cases, of course, but a high bar to get over in other.

I am less familiar with Ryanair's Flight Ops standards, but I have no doubt whatsoever that they are the same as maintenance, for the same reasons.

Pity about Ryanair's unnecessarily dreadful customer relations, customer service and website, but you can't have everything.

[strake]

Capot,

Interesting to read your comments from within. There seems to be a number of people who travel regularly on Ryanair who have the same view. If you are careful with booking and understand the system, the experience is generally OK.
Certainly, the aircraft look new and appear to be much younger than a number of other airlines' fleets.

[ladylily63]

Rainboe

I refuse to be drawn into your petty little argumentative world and therefore will ignore any future jibes at me. :bored:

I thought forums had rules about abusive behaviour? It's quite clear that you aren't a pilot you don't come across as very intelligent.


Thank you to everyone else it has certainly provided me with some food for thought. I have been flying as a passenger regularly since I was a child in the 70's and have obviously seen many changes! The safety of my family is paramount to me and some of the posts have provided me with reassurance.

I will go on my flight in January (not that cheap I hasten to add!) with confidence.

Looking forward to browsing these forums I love all things aviation.

[Rainboe]

There's no abuse whatsoever (where?), it's just amazing that the total inability to get a refund out of Ryanair in any shape or form makes even the most nervous passenger suddenly able to fly!

You come to a pilot forum squeaking you are frightened of flying. You need a man to tell you to 'pull yourself together and get on with it!'. Unfortunately, I am a pilot. Occasionally I have to hold someone's hand and say 'there there, don't be frightened' when all along I really want to get my belt off and tan them until they decide perhaps they're not too frightened after all.....after they've delayed 400 people for an hour because of their incredibly stupid phobias!

You don't have a thing about spiders as well, do you? Mice? Lizards and snakes? Wide open spaces? It seems people who suffer one phobia very often have a bigger selection they can pick and chose from for the day. It shows deeper rooted problems, but as we don't have Agony Aunt anymore, I can't direct you for help. An interesting observation I have made over the years is that the nervous passengers who hold up flights are almost always obese, but that leads us into a politically incorrect area and I don't go such places.

It would be useful to know if you do manage to conquor your fears and actually fly. Might give you a phobia about Irish accents though!

[Dit]

Rainboe, you may have a hell of a lot of hours and been a captain for god knows how long, but your posts here make you sound like a complete to$$er. I really hope I never have to fly with anyone as opinionated as you. The whole point of phobias is that they irrational fears, lilylady shouldn't be abused for asking a question to people that will be able to provide here with the answer, even if it could seem like a silly question to those people answering.

Our (Ryanair's) maintenance always amazes me; I have yet to fly with anything more than an inop clock. I have also never felt under any pressure from anyone (Company, Base Captains or Captains) to compromise safety merely to remain 'on schedule'. In fact the opposite is true, according to our SOPs we are supposed to fly econ speeds at all times, even when late.

It is true Ryanair has a lot if different nationalities on its books, this is one of the reasons the SOPs are so thorough. The other is safety. I recently was a safety pilot (3rd pilot in the flight deck, there in case the captain becomes incapacitated, we have to do an approach which the new pilot isn't legally allowed to do yet (low vis) to keep an eye out in case the training captain doesn't spot anything and make the tea!) whilst a new guy was line training, he struggled with his command of English and has recently gone back to just observing until he can improve his English.

Ladylily, I hope this helps you in some way, if you have any more specific questions or need any of the more technical stuff explained feel free to PM me. Capot hit the nail on the head with: "we must be best, because people expect us not to be".

Dit

[ladylily63]

Thank you for that Dit; you and others have restored my faith in pilots. It appears there are some of you with half decent personalities ;)

I may take you up on the pm,thank you

[VAFFPAX]

lily, Rainboe has that big red label "Warning: Toxic" for a reason :-)

You'll grow used to his acidic disposition the longer you hang out here.

:-)

S.

[Rainboe]

It says it like it should be said! The patience shop is fresh out of patience for people who can't live with their silly phobias. Perhaps it is as well some of you want to hold her hand and say 'there there!', but I think the best way to handle it is to say 'stop making a prune of yourself woman and either get on the plane or walk!'. That way does not fail- especially if you can't get a refund! The soft approach tends to lead one towards doing it constantly! But those of you who think you are unofficial agony aunts, the field is all yours!

[teeteringhead]

You come to a pilot forum.... er, not exactly Rainboe, it seems to say "Passengers and SLF" at the top of the page ....

.... it also says:If you are regularly a passenger on any airline then why not post your views or questions here? Many of us pilots like to know exactly what you think of us, the job, the airline or anything that you think we should hear about.

ladylily63

.... I only ventured in here for a bit of peace and quiet away from the flak of the Military Forum - didn't expect such vitriol...

.... many - perhaps most (male) pilots are not as rude as some appear to be!

Happy landings anyway

teeters (an officer [for sure] and a gentleman )

[I]Edited again for emphasis - I do not choose to enter further debate with one so rude

[Ex-RN]

I could be wrong - but I get the feeling that rainboe is actually Mike O'Leary

[clareprop]

I don't know who he is but his childish, rude and arrogant ways seem to be, uniquely, ignored by moderators....

[Herod]

First time in a while that I've been on the SLF forum and I must say that Rainboe's remarks are totally out of order. This forum is for passengers to ask questions and post comments, and toxic reactions are the last thing they need.

Ladylilly; Michael O'Leary is far and away not the nicest man on the planet, but he does run a very successful and safe airline. I fly with them often and am quite happy with the operation. Enjoy your flight.

(retired 737 pilot)

[Rainboe]

You come to a pilot forum
.... er, not exactly Rainboe, it seems to say "Passengers and SLF" at the top of the page ....
Above that, it does say 'Professional Pilots Rumour Network'. As a professional pilot, I find it slightly demeaning and a little bit offensive to have neurotics coming here virtually saying 'you may fly all the time, but my carcase is so valuable to me that I'm not sure I find it safe enough to entrust myself to a trip on Ryanair, so everybody give me reassurance!'. If you are that nervous, get yourself on a 'Fear of Flying' course! But I do find it offensive people call into question the safety of something I have made a professional career out of because 'they are frightened'. Guys blast on and off carriers, in the dark. They do it because they have to. That is dangerous and takes courage. This wimp is frightened of travelling on Ryanair? Purrlease! The best answer is 'deal with it, or walk instead!' If you don't find that opinion valid, that's your lookout. She will fly, but everybody in the airport will know what a state she is in.

[dontpressthat]

.....Still waiting to hear why those crossing themselves is an irritation.
Cant wait to see how yr going to explain that without offending anybody of a christian persuasion.

DPT

[Skipness One Echo]

If you can pluck up the courage, please don't cross yourself before take-off! When I see that, it makes me very annoyed.

Presumably Rainboe sees this as he's getting ready to strap on the life jacket for the demo and then serve the tea and coffee. What a sweetie. I wonder if he's single.....

[The Real Slim Shady]

ladylily,

Following our PMs may I place this in the public forum.

Would you please PM the details of your flight closer to the date and I will speak with the crew to make certain that you are looked after as you have some degree of concern.

TRSS

[Final 3 Greens]

I cannot believe Rainbow is a pilot or has ever been in any form of command...possible a frustrated engineer?

Rainboe is a grumpy old pilot with about 5 million hours :} who has inhaled too much windscreen demister, with apparent side effects on his personality.

He learnt his passenger reassurance techniques by watching Mel Gibson deal with the potential suicide jumper in Lethal Weapon (the original) and now likes this approach, as it is efficient.

But give him a break, as he used to have a really big toy to play with, but now has only a little one.

The Real Slim Shady is a gentleman who has demonstrated his credentials once again by offering to help an SLF.

[dollydaydream]

Final 3 Greens may still have me on 'ignore' but......


If the Real Slim shady was a true gentleman why does he 'kiss and tell'?

[stevef]

[Pity about Ryanair's unnecessarily dreadful customer relations, customer service and website, but you can't have everything.]

I'll agree with that. I'm still waiting for a reply to my letter as to why their website locked me out several times as I tried to pay for a flight and then charged me twice after a successful booking the following day.
Not Very Good, Ryanair. :=

But I'll repeat that I've got no qualms about Ryanair's sharp end.

[Selfloading]

I'm off to Malaga (do you consider that an out of the way airport?) in a couple of days with Ryanair, no qualms whatsoever, in fact I can't wait to get going :ok:

£35 all up return from Birmingham if you're wondering.

[nivsy]

The most scary thing about flying Ryanair is the mad scramble by many trying to get board and the congestion at boarding gates.....and what is this :mad:about only EU passport holders can check in on line?

Forgot totally about that - and as the other half is Australian its just another money grabbing issue from our fav' Irish registed company.

[bizzy liz]

Although I fully understand that during a flight in difficult circs, it is impossible generally to communicate with the cattle, however, after it is all over, a little word to us down the back would do wonders to alleviate any fears.

When this is NOT done after a hit with turbulence or a go around or whatever, most non pilots think the worst and hence the fear.

It is lack of communication that is the problem. We are not all professional pilots, and we don't know what is normal and what is not. We are in a tube, out of control and believe me a word from the deck is worth a fortune when things seem unusual.

[PanzerJohn]

More importantly do their staff really look like this?.


Ryanair flies into a storm with 'sexist' charity calendar featuring scantily clad cabin crew | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1084741/Ryanair-flies-storm-sexist-charity-calendar-featuring-scantily-clad-cabin-crew.html)

[Rainboe]

.....Still waiting to hear why those crossing themselves is an irritation.
Cant wait to see how yr going to explain that without offending anybody of a christian persuasion.

Well as you're insisting on thread drift, I find it irritating because it's a totally and utterly useless occupation? It also has shades of 'look after me oh Lordy- these undeservings around me can GTH!'. I imagine lots of crosses were crossed at MAD recently, and look where it got them. If there is a Lordy up there (which there isn't, it's a pagan 'comfort blanket belief'), is He really going to take any notice? He will leave you to it- but it does show everyone around what a pious, pretentious, 'better than thou' twit you are!

Certainly not wishing to offend anyone! As if I would!

And just out of fairness, the other lots are even worse.

[dontpressthat]

HAHAHAHA....rainboe... Im not even going to rise to that as your clearly a to$$er... damn, you made me bite. **** your good.

DPT

[Rainboe]

I'm not paid to be liked! I'm paid to get the job done. I have a low patience rating. I think the slap on the cheek approach is better than the 'hold my hand, look into my eyes, it will be alright' approach, which doesn't actually work, it panders to these peoples attention grabbing desire. Example: Jumbo, 200 odd people, doors closed at SYD, about to push back. Told by CC 'we can't go, woman demanding to get off- nervous flyer'. Senior Staff Grand Captain of the Fleet Rainboe unbuckles, tells everybody to stop everything- we will prob miss our slot now, jackets up and goes downstairs and finds this miserable simpering crying heap of jelly quivering away saying she 'can't go', and her seriously embarrassed hubbie trying to calm her. Decide: let her off, find her bags- get new slot- poss 2 hour delay, or knock some sense into the daft numptie? I went for the 'mental slap' approach. I pointed out SHE had bought the ticket, she had agreed the terms of travel, and here we are pushing back and she insists on getting off NOW? (loud voice). I told her she was going to travel because that is what everybody else wanted to do, sit down and please STFU. It helped letting those around know we would be seriously delayed if she was pandered to. It worked. The 'hold my hand' approach would have had us all delayed hours She travelled- never heard any more. I bet she'd thank me now- reckon it conquored her fear in an instant.

It's all attention seeking. An audience is what they want. If that audience is going to flatten you because you are going to seriously inconvenience them, the problem mysteriously 'disappears'. They want to be pandered to. It's spoilt people who indulge themselves in these 'nerves'. That's why I say 'deal with it, or swim, but don't go boring everyone to death with your pathetic phobias purrlease!'

[el #]

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ocL59CyYI5NWPM:http://www.mondointermedio.it/IMAGES/Lucy%2520van%2520Pelt%2520psychiatric%2520help.JPG

This is not 5c advice. Rainboe saved big $$$ acting as he did. Science should pay him a royalty.

[clareprop]

Rainboe:

It's all attention seeking. An audience is what they want.


How true...and from your own lips..

Mods, why don't you just lock this thread and ban the idiot for a while....?

[amber 1]

Mods, why don't you just lock this thread and ban the idiot for a while....?

What? And stop the fun!

I found Rainboe's post above quite amusing. Reminded me of that scene in "Airplane" (I think it was), where they all lined up to take it in turns to slap the hysterical woman.

[Rainboe]

Er....isn't it against the law to get abusive at other members? Wow- I've been abused by a 'C172 pilot'. I'm humbled. Like being attacked by a dead sheep! So Mod......is it against the rules to abuse other members or not? And what are you going to do about it?

[Ex-RN]

Memo to self:
Do not become SLF on a 757 a/c from a southern airport - Deranged captain - days away from a medical - on the loose

[ladylily63]

Thanks for that slim shady I appreciate it I will

[C172 Hawk XP]

Reminded me of that scene in "Airplane" (it was !), where they all lined up to take it in turns to slap the hysterical woman

i want to be first in the cue to slap hysterecal rainboe

[Rainboe]

i want to be first in the cue to slap hysterecal rainboe

Perhaps you should enrol in nightschool first and get yourself educated. 5 errors in that statement! You are illiterate.

Interesting post ce matin from my esteemed colleague con-pilot:
And yet I have seen much worse "vile, antagonistic and mean-spirited" posts in R&N, not to mention "lowlife behaviour" and the "vomiting of bile" by want-a-be's, opinionated SLFs and very low time pilots challenging high time, experienced pilots. Talk about abuse.
Er.....that seems to cover most loudmouth, know nothing contributors here with no experience or knowledge of the industry!

[Final 3 Greens]

Rainboe

You are in danger of becoming the most ridiculous poster since Capt Ed was chucked off here many moons ago.

This is the SLF forum and the mission is "If you are regularly a passenger on any airline then why not post your views or questions here?"

Therefore people are empowered to say what they think, no matter how daft it seems to you.

I used to enjoy your posts some time ago, as an ex BA 747 and subsequent short haul captain you undoubtedly know the industry better than most.

Unfortunately, your recent contributions are so vitriolic that they make you look like an idiot and as someone with qualifications/experience of working in psychology, your views on nervous/frightened passengers are disturbing.

Sorry to be blunt, but it needed saying.

[AMEandPPL]

your views on nervous/frightened passengers are disturbing.

Sorry to be blunt, but it needed saying

Something very very similar was going through my mind too. Being a pilot, and especially being a commander, is about a LOT more than just operating the flying controls !

I often wonder how Rainboe acts or speaks in the presence of his AME when he is getting his class 1 renewed. I'd be damned certain it would be unrecognisable from the persona we see portrayed here.

[Tudor]

The term "keyboard warrior" springs to mind...

Urban Dictionary: keyboard warrior (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=keyboard+warrior)

[TightSlot]

As many of you may realize, the Mods on this board combine their activities with flying duties. This means that from time to time, a period of some hours may elapse between forum visits while we fly and/or rest. Yesterday, I operated LAX-LHR and then slept for 11 hours. Today... I find this depressing thread that has grown, seemingly overnight. Many of those involved here, really should know better.

Rainboe is tolerated on PPRuNe because in amongst the rants, there is usually a valid point being made, by someone who, on the Pilot side, has experience. That said, he walks a precarious tightrope that he occasionally falls off: On this occasion, he finds himself looking up from the floor, rather than down from the rope. For other readers, the most effective way to avoid getting hooked is not to rise to the bait (that's probably more than enough metaphors for one paragraph).

I could go through this thread and individually delete all the posts that don't directly relate to the topic, but frankly can't be bothered. Instead, I'll close it, and ask that nervous flyers use the Nervous Flyer thread in the forum for reassurance.

Those off you that are unsatisfied with the moderation of this forum and thread need to bear in mind that not all moderation is visible. Many posts are deleted before they are seen, and sanctions may be taken that are not publicly discussed. It is usually unwise to reach a conclusion when you do not have access to all of the facts.