Qantas Cabin Services Priorities

[packrat]

The Qantas brand has been trashed.
Maintenance has some major problems.
A large portion of the fleet is older trhan God.
Cart tops are an OH and S minefield
Crew are largely disengaged.
So we have this imbecile wandering around QCC1 witrh a five cent piece ensuring female CC are not wearing overly large earrings.
Some other clown has a fetish for the correct placement of name tags.
Five millimetres out and you are likely to get a clause 11.
Then we have the very serious situation of a crew member with several chocolates in his posession.
How much did this event cost?
Do we work for an airline or a retirement village for anally retentive pre school teachers?
Human beings over 18 and who vote are considered adults in the broader community.
Qantas cabin services appears to have another interpretation initiated in 1886.
Some of the people in cabin services would not be out of place in a Jane Austen novel and are about as old and relevant.
The shawl and rocking chair brigade have found their niche here.
Break out the Promensil

[argus.moon]

The stupidity starts at the top and trickles down.
What has the Black Widow achieved since her arrival?
Zip!!!
She has surrounded herself with those more incompetent....if thats possible
Find out what the real issues and fix them.
If thats not possible leave, and take the botox and "Crystal" the terminator with you

[teresa green]

Sounds like the same happy place it was 25years ago.

[speedbirdhouse]

The rot starts with LG and her nutcase fellow kiwi with the double barrel surname and fixation with white stockings.:}

What IS this preposterous obsession with the "correct":rolleyes: placement of name badges???

Have these idiots sat down and thought to themselves, right lets look at the worlds best airlines and see what they do or what makes them special??

No, that would make sense.

Seriously, how many passengers get off a Singapore Airlines flight raving about the precision with which the CC had placed their badges???

We really are being run by nut cases.:ugh:

____________________________

Teresa Green,

25 years ago we were a airline.

Now we're a circus.

[DEFCON4]

A motivated well resourced group of employees.
All this other crap....KPIs, earrings,name tags and this rest of this inane nonsense is irrelevant
Not one Cabin Crew team manager has ever achieved his/her KPIs
They,like the rest of us are set up to fail.
Qantas Cabin Crew Services.....a case study in how NOT to manage a workforce.
Anyone doing a thesis for a Ph.D.?.....here is your topic

[Sky.Rider]

How can they get it so wrong?
Where do these people come from and what is it in their backgound that brings them to an airline?

[UDP]

Sky.Rider.
Half the management shuffle papers in QCC are ex Ansett. Double barrel white stockings was Air NZ.

[speedbirdhouse]

"Qantas Cabin Crew Management" [see oxymoron] haven't a single man involved in ANY decision making process ................:hmm:

[packrat]

Nature works best when in balance.
Qantas Cabin services is way out of balance
Too much Estrogen and no testosterone.
Being an ex chalkie I saw the Education system in NSW turned into a mess largely due to a similar imbalance not only in the teaching ranks but also in management.
The Sewing Circle is doing the same to Cabin Services.
Too many Nanas

[capt.cynical]

Dont forget their "Handbags" :yuk:

[blackguard]

LH has around 4,500 Cabin Crew.
Surely there is a way we can have some input into the way we are managed?
By pass the nanas and their handbags and go straight to Borghetti?
It might be a first...employees giving management a vote of no confidence publicly

[captainrats]

Well Speedy you have let the cat out of the bag.
What you have said in this forum is something that has been felt privately for a long time.
Brave ....be prepared for some incoming from the feminist right

[PattyStacker]

We all know it. They know that they are incompetant. They know we know they are incompetant.
But who speaks up.

[RYAN TCAD]

"All this other crap....KPIs, earrings,name tags and this rest of this inane nonsense is irrelevant
Not one Cabin Crew team manager has ever achieved his/her KPIs
They,like the rest of us are set up to fail."

The reason for this sort of setup at QF is so they have more opportunities to get rid of someone if they are not liked. It makes their job of getting rid of an employee all the more easier.

I am sure that QF have applied numerous rules for that reason. It probably extends back to the days when it was operating in more of a military fashion too, where you would have employees saluting as they passed each other out at the jet base.

[packrat]

These palookas haven t been too successful in front of the commission.
A hiding to nothing is the result.
On most occassions the company has lost these cases because they havent followed their own protocols.
Why?
These buffoons dont know what the protocls are.
An enormous expense and poor use of resources for a null result.
This thread is about priorities.
The unwritten priority of cabin services is to operate in circles of ever decreasing radius until in a cloud of blue smoke they disappear up their collective orifice.
Hopefully that will be one day soon.
C'mon Mr.Borghetti surely you can see what is happening.
Become a legend and sack them all.
Morale would skyrocket overnight

[Shazz-zaam]

RYAN TCAD mentions that Qantas used to operate in a military fashion, I reckon they still do. Only that those individuals in QCC1 model themselves on the NAZI party and the gestapo.
New Cabin Standing Order will require crew to Goose-step and do the NAZI salute.
Heil Dixon.

Zee floggings vill continue until morale improves.

P.S whatever you do don't mention the war, I mean Allco, APA takeover bid. I may have mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it.

[mrpaxing]

that AJ KPI's are correct. His top priority set by the board is to improve moral. that's a fact. how to achieve this. it is said that AJ and LG dont get along. there is hope. i reckon by the middle of next year things are moving. JB is the first one to go!:ok:

[DEFCON4]

Hope thats not true.
Borghetti is one of the few remaining Execs from the original Qantas management team.He has been there over 30 years.He has been found to be both charming and approachable.
He would be a loss.
The Black Botox Widow would be no loss at all.
A person known morre for her wardrobe than anything else.One would hope that she takes all the other Kiwis with her when she leaves.
Cabin Services needs a good clean out if moral is to be improved.
Are you listening AJ?

[mrpaxing]

not a bad bloke, but he knows and lets them feed him all the info he wants to hear from the boysclub and certain people. all the info he gets is very well filtered and as long as his bonus is ok he does play the game as well. haven't you all noticed how paranoid the cabin crew management team is about controlling every bit of information and going"through the right channels".
All i can hope for is AJ puts the broomstick through that deaprtment. all the people out online wouldn,t even notice!!!!!!!:oh:

[AlphaLord]

Determine where in the market you want to position yourself.
Determine how to differentiate yourself from others in the same niche.
Determine the cost to maintain the position.
Employ suitable people.
Train them well.
Provide them with the necessary resources.
Develop honest open and frank communication.
Continually re evaluate and improve the product
Maintain expenditure to support product quality.
Motivate your people.
If the cost of sustaining the position becomes unacceptable :reposition
Advertise and promote the new position.
Qantas has done none of the above for around 12 years.
It has lost its way
This is due to incompetent management
Qantas as a company has continued to employ the wrong people to manage its business and has kept them there for way too long.
The board and the Chairman are at fault.
The entire Cabin Services hierarchy needs to be replaced.
They have displayed a level of incompetence not evident in their immediate competition

[Le 3rd Homme]

Cabin Services seem to think that the best way to motivate is to intimidate.
Just before going to work you may be asked to have a conversation with your manager....usually over something trivial.
That sets the tone for the trip.Are you going to go the extra yard becasue you have been threatened?It might work on a 4 year old for a minute.
It doesnt bloody well work on adults.
There will be a note put on your file.You have to bite your lip to stop laughing in their face.
Pure moronic entertainment

[watch your6]

Slowly LH CC have been ostracized by management.
No in put into Uniform design.
No access to operations.
No direct reporting to anyone higher than the Fat Controller.
The Hags and Handbag Mafia control everything.
No input into procedures or product.
Action on feedback...nil
Anyone who does not agree with the edicts of the H and H Mafia is targetted for attitude adjustment or clause 11.
A CC idea rejected today is implemented under a management name 6 months later
Look after your own and watch your 6

[mrpaxing]

another secret deal has been done by our great LH union leader. apparently the company wants/got 16 SH CSM coming into longhaul as BFA. this is out side the divisional transfer agreement according to the Sh union. the "boys" are bending over nicely again. more old hags coming for a swan song:ugh::eek:

[DEFCON4]

God I love this site.
Both informative and very entertaining.

[speedbirdhouse]

Quote-
"A CC idea rejected today is implemented under a management name 6 months later"

___________

Oh so very very true except that this can occur within the space of weeks. .:mad::mad::mad:

[Ka.Boom]

The time has come to inform senior management that Cabin Services is a disaster.
Emails to Borghetti and Joyce are a good beginning.
Passive resistance should also be considered.
Not signing on before the required report time.
There are a number of ways co operation can be removed,hindered or suspended without consequences for Cabin Crew

[Pegasus747]

Mr paxing.. i dont know where you get your information from... perhaps you can start by explaining the Divisional Transfer Agreement to us???

I am not sure i know what you are referring to. there is an EBA which is the only enforceable document...but if you know something else please explain it to us>>

[GalleyHag]

mr paxing

They are all quite young/junior CSM's actually.

[pussy.galore]

Will Cabin Services manage this well or will they screw it up as in previous years?
They are at least consistent.Consistently inept!!!

[Shazz-zaam]

Consistently inept of coarse!!!
Back in the 1990's they were after 500 redundancies and at the same time they were still interviewing with Coopers and Lybrand.
The company is so large that communications between departments breakdown.
The situation 20 years later is even worse as Mr Dixon has broken down Qantas into smaller entities who effectively bid against each other for work.
There is little co-operation between departments to help one another, which is such a shame as we are all on the same side.
Out source as much work as you can if it means saving a few cents to benefit shareholders and also profit sharing for the Qantas executives who stand to get big fat bonuses.
The whole system is set up to fail. Consistently inept just about sums it all up.

[Fiona Fastlove]

You think Qantas has cabin issues? Jetstar recruitment have have shunned Coles and Safeway and now recruit from Bi-Lo and Bunnings! You get what what you can afford I guess. One duty last month I was shocked by the bush pig I had to work with. 20 years old, 4 months flying and 4 months pregnant to some Gosford Council numb-nut. Flight attendant job celebration over a bottle of vodka and a carton of smokes me thinks. But did she do her job? No!! I have never seen a flight attendant with so little respect for tech crew, very embarressing. This CAREER has become a JOB for australia's trailer trash :(

[pussy.galore]

Around 20 years ago American Carriers underwent a transformation.All the professional Cabin Crew were given the old heave ho and(this is a generalization) were replaced with the cheapest and worst CC on the planet.
Not one American Carrier( I stand to be corrected)rates in the top 10 internationally for service,food or IFE.
They are a bus service.
Australian Carriers are headed down the same path.
Some perhaps are already there
Qantas Cabin Services will tell you different but their brief is to make CC as cheap as possible.
Why else would you have 5 different divisions(5 different payscales) of the same department.
You therefore have 5 different levels of loyalty and 5 different levels of service.
No one is on the same page of the same book.
While this absurd situation exists you will never ever have a consistent level of service.
Management will tell that is what they want but they are definitely not prepared to spend the money to achieve it.
Cabin Services:The Department for Smoke and Mirrors(and Botox)
NB:The Black Widow has been sent across the Tasman by Air NZ to cripple the opposition.So far she has done an outstanding job

[Straughanie]

I am a regular commuter between SE Asia and Perth.

For a while I have been more than happy to pay the extra cash to fly QF to make the commuting life a little easier. I always found it a true pleasure to board a QF aircraft on my way home, a big part of which was derived from the friendly and professional crew. Just prior to and particularly since the Airbus incident I have noticed a VERY notable downturn in quality and priority of on-board service. I hope it is a short-term impact of the traffic disruptions and not a longer term morale problem...

I really hope they can sort it out, I am sure I am not the only bloke who is willing to pay a premium to fly Qantas, but if my next commute is anything like my last one I simply cannot justify the extra expense and will go budget instead.... or will pay more to fly SQ

:ok: Straughanie

ps. I couldn't care less if the name badge is in the right spot, I do however care if I am welcomed with a genuine smile and treated as a guest. One of the best and fundamental principles I learned in post-graduate HRM was 'smiles breed smiles' I hope QF CC management also realise this.

[pussy.galore]

Are hell bent on turning something fundamental into something obtuse if for no other reason than to justify their position/existence.
A smile is OK as long as it is approved,no bigger than a 5 cent piece and does not extend beyond the lip corner perimeter.

[Little_Red_Hat]

Not wanting to start a LH vs SH debate here but... Straughanie...it may be... (MAY BE) that for a few months now the majority of flights between PER & SIN have been operated by long haul crew on the 747 and Airbus. Now I'm not saying LH crew aren't good at their jobs (most are) but it COULD be a result of the fact that a 5hr SIN flight is a lot less than they are used to doing so their whole 'flow' is disrupted... imagine being told you had to do your job in half or a third of the time... of course it would affect things. I suppose maybe the longer this goes on the more it will improve, also a lot of LH crew may be newly started (QCCA) so still getting used to regional flying.

Of course we S/H aren't perfect either but especially out of Perth they did tons of Singapore flights and it was just something they were really used to the routine of... wasn't unusual for some crew in PER to get 10 SIN trips a month.

Hot rumour is a LOT of SIN trips out of PER will be crewed again by S/H during Dec so let us know if you notice any difference... not to bag it out, just curious if maybe LH aren't happy with shorter flight as it's not their 'thing' :}

LH crew please don't get offended it's not my intention...

[aussieboy]

BINGO!!!! isnt that funny of the change of on-board Professionalism... Im not here to compare short haul and long haul, thats when long haul were flying that pattern... thank god its coming back to "domestic" :ok:

[RedTBar]

Little_Red_Hat & aussieboy.
Small fly in your ointment with that theory.International crew had been doing the Perth to Singapore and return flights when a lot of people posting here were in Kindergarten or before your parents even met.
I was doing them in the late 70's and we were probably doing them well before then and there was no problem with them at all and everyone was happy.

Remember this was all going on when we were employed and known as Qantas crew.
You guys or the girls in those days were called TAA or Ansett Airlines of Australia.
Today with the mess created by the company the line is blurred and passengers mention to us as well that they can tell the difference between us.
I'm not going to say who is better only that we are different and the customer can tell.

But going back to this thread and this is how the management get their work done and that is by using one team against another.They have always used divide and conquer as a management tool.
There is at least one person I know of who posts here and that obviously works in the office and only posts when it is something that is in their interest.
What I find tragic is that if the company was to work with it's employees the airline would be unbeatable.
I couldn't care less if the name badge is in the right spot, I do however care if I am welcomed with a genuine smile and treated as a guest. One of the best and fundamental principles I learned in post-graduate HRM was 'smiles breed smiles' I hope QF CC management also realise this.
Straughanie,When I started the barometer for interviewing crew was about their personality and people skills instead now it is about who is willing to work for the least amount and the longest hours.The goal posts have been moved hopefully not irrevocably.

[twiggs]

Not wanting to start a LH vs SH debate here but... Straughanie...it may be... (MAY BE) that for a few months now the majority of flights between PER & SIN have been operated by long haul crew on the 747 and Airbus.
A lot of the SIN-PER-SIN flights have been crewed in majority by our kiwi cousins.

[roamingwolf]

A lot of the SIN-PER-SIN flights have been crewed in majority by our kiwi cousins.
10.30 am ,I didn't realise it was morning tea break in the office.

boys and girls as someone used to say "It's not the money thats important it's the destinations".

The shuttles were always hard work and you end up in the same place you left after a long day but to compare with the good old days we used to do a hot meal between sydney and melbourne anyway.It's all horses for courses.

[Shazz-zaam]

The hot meal between Syd and Mel was on a jumbo with lower lobe.
The trays were preset with a small bottle of wine.
You still had to set up tubs and follow through with Tea and coffee.
Pax load was often 300+, and you were transit Mel, going on to Sin or Bkk so you had yet another meal service to do.

My point is that we use to have short sectors as well, so little red hat your point in discussion has no validity.

The bottom line is a smile is not just a smile, it has to be genuine and come from the heart.

A quick way to put genuine smiles on the faces of LH cabin crew would be to sack all the team managers, a clean sweep.
Replace them with crew that actually fly, with people that have onboard experience. With people that treat others as intellingent human beings . With people who are respectful, compassionate and there to give you genuine support.

It would be a great opportunity to implement this strategy when we finally say goodbye to Dixon, if the new CEO AJ had any courage ,it would be a great way to herald his new appointment by jettison all of Dixons bad karma.

Smiles all round. :O

[Little_Red_Hat]

Hi all,

Sorry if anyone got the wrong idea from my post, I think T Bar summed it up nicely, neither SH or LH is better we are just different, which is what I was trying to say. I didn't know that LH used to do those short sectors so I was just 'thinking out loud' as a MAYBE why Straughanie noticed a change.

I only mentioned it because a few LH crew I spoke to said they had to get used to doing this a lot faster (in 4 or 5 hours instead of having the longer stretches of service as you do on Oz-US flights for example)

I'm not saying the service is worse its just different... friends of mine who fly PER-SIN and MEL-SIN regularly kept mentioning it...

At the end of the day as said it matters how we feel in our jobs... I for one love what I do and I loved doing Singapore trips especially... even the shuttles... hard work yes but you really felt a sense of achievement getting all of that done in 12 hours :}

However things go we do need to stick together, and again I''m sorry if that post came across as having a bitch at LH crew. I wasn't. I admire the fact that you guys got thrown back into the shuttles and just got on with it because they are bloody hard work!! Wouldn't it be cool if we could spend a week doing each other's flights... I'm sure I would have a new perspective on LH from doing it and not just relying on what other crew tell me...

The main thing is, Q need to get a grip on what is important... all these silly details and peeing matches about name tags and whatnot.... who cares... as the passenger says, what matters is the crew and how they treat the pax... treat the crew nicely and the results might improve! People are not robots and no matter how much we love our jobs, if we get fed up (we are only human after all ;)) then it WILL show.... Short Haul or Long Haul or Kiwi or Thai. We are all crew and we are all human!

[speedbirdhouse]

Who on earth do you think did ALL of Qantas's international flying before the domestics became god's gift to international flying?:rolleyes:

Also, what is it about one bar and one meal service on a 4 hour sector that could possibly be construed as challenging, for anyone ?

[Little_Red_Hat]

Speedbird, I think you missed the point of my post. I wasn't saying the service is difficult... just that it's not really 'long haul' so maybe some of the crew had their 'flow' interrupted. As in, it's different to having heaps of time like they're used to and I have observed on some of those Sin sectors that *some* crew seem like they've forgotten there's only a couple hours to go not ten and they disappear (I was flying as a pax and it was a 744)

Anyway, someone already explained the crewing/flights to me so I reworded what I was trying to say. I didn't state it as fact, it was just a suggestion as to why Straughanie may have noticed a difference in the flights they took. Only an idea so no need to get worked up :ok:

[speedbirdhouse]

Whilst I respect and appreciate your conciliatory posts I have to say your "assumptions" demonstrate a perception of international flying that really is quite a long way from reality.

Oh and don't worry, I'm not worked up :ok:

[Little_Red_Hat]

I'd love to find out first hand what 'international flying' is like but seems Qantas don't want anyone to do that these days without working under inferior terms of employment.

As I said, as I have not flown ('proper') long haul myself I can only go by what I've seen and what other (LH and ex LH) crew tell me... my comment about crew disappearing was not meant to be a jab at all LH crew.. just that we were amused that it seemed they'd gone off a nap as 2hr out of SIN and not a drink to be had for over an hour... yes with call bells... but that could happen on any flight I admit! :}

Glad to see you're not the kind to fly off the handle... seems to happen far too much in D&G these days... :E

Anyway back to your regularly scheduled topic... ah yes Cabin Services!!

[pussy.galore]

God this is boring.This thread is about Cabin Services and its incompetence.
This other stuff has been done to death on other threads.
Give it a rest.
Cabin Services: a 20th Century department in a 21st Century world

[speedbirdhouse]

On a 12 hour tour of duty crew will most definitely get whatever rest they can, when they can even if their circadian rhythms are such that they are not [yet] tired.

If that doesn't make sense to you or your domestic mates see my previous post.

Half the crew would have been "on" at any one time and I don't believe for one moment that call bells would have been ignored. If that is indeed what you are implying.

Crew not doing a round of "waters" within an hour of a bar, meal, ice cream, hot choc and water bottle service??

Not a crime in my book.

[cartexchange]

little red hat!
you posts are very inflammatory! why did you have to reply to that post about the PER/SIN service.
anyone l can See that it was a setup!
you fell into the trap and started making endless baseless accusations to wards your fellow colleagues in another division.
Time to move on !

[speedbirdhouse]

When is Mrs. Joyce going to sack those oxygen thieving, delusional buffoons running cabin services?

That one act would do SO much to fix what is fundamentally wrong with this airline:ugh:

[Little_Red_Hat]

FFS... I'm not going to get into this again. I apologise for my original 'guess' at why the difference in service. Someone corrected me and I made a post accordingly. Obviously you didn't read it.

'Endless baseless accusations' - which would be what exactly??? That the crew buggered off on that occasion??? Well actually, yes, they did! In business class no less! the cabin was unnoccupied by ANY crew member for around an hour to the point one of the FD came out to get themselves a drink and seemed surprised no one was there... sorry if you think it was a 'baseless accusation'... all I was saying was on that occasion it happened. I also said it could happen on ANY flight. Don't take it so personally.

Hat. Coat. Leaving.

[distracted cockroach]

Just to throw another spin on it...I don't know if this is entirely a Qantas problem....employment policy has a lot to do with it as someone correctly pointed out above. Airlines do not employ people into CAREERS now, they employ "resource" and it is all about cost.
Many people who are employed are seduced by the "glamour" (I know, I know) of working for an airline. By the time reality sets in, they use up all their sick leave, then resign and go elsewhere..this is certainly true in the LCC model. Management see this as a good thing as they have a continual stream of new enthusiastic types wanting the glamour and willing to sacrific all for the nice uniform.
On some of the larger airlines, they don't leave, just get sourer and sourer to the detriment of the customer and the image of the airline. Management with no clue try to improve morale with floggings and obviously the effect is reversed.
So in the end, management are to blame, but sorry team, some of the blame also lies with you. A strong united workforce should have a strong united voice. Do you have one?

[pussy.galore]

Reading these threads and hazarding a guess you have to say no.
Qantas management just loves it.
People like Little Red Hat fall into the trap every time.
Now pleeze back to the topic at hand

[RedTBar]

pussy.galore,
Thats right and if you think about it we don't know if Little_Red_Hat or anyone is crew at all and what their agenda is.
It's obvious that the company does not like anyone having a shot at them and could easily get someone in the office to post an item to get crew fighting with each other again.
This thread after all is all about their inefficiency and attitude towards crew and what better way to divert attention than to go back to the old 'us and them' routine and having a go at crew at the same time..
There is already one person I know of who posts on PPrune who is not crew and would have to be in the office because of the information she has let slip a few times.
Come to think about it she hasn't turned up in cabin crew threads for ages and maybe this is her in a new dress so to speak.

[ditzyboy]

While we have a 'divided' FAAA this sort of SH vs LH bullsh*it will continue. Each and every time I peruse these forums I am saddend by the p*ssing contest between the professionals (for the most part) who work the cabins at Qantas.

Anyone have any ideas how we can work together to overthrow the despicable creatures at Customer Experience Delivery and their like? Reading the Cabin Crew News makes me sick of late. Just like the poor lady at Coogee Bay - I am not into being fed (useless) bullsh*t.

A unified union (heaven forbid!) may just be the answer. Can we, the members, affect that change? I realise my Domestical colleagues are pretty weak on the union front. But is it possible we crew can band together like the vote of no confidence that happened at the International FAAA in recent times?

[Ka.Boom]

It was tried ten years ago....and failed dismally because the Beehives attempted to make decisions regarding LH and had absolutley no idea what they were talking about.Like mixing water and oil.
The cultures are different,the history is different and therefore the mentality is different.
When flying becomes a mix and is fully integrated it may work.
Unfortunately the awards are differnt and Cabin Services would definitely not want a united workforce.
They will continue to play one against the other...successfully.
Little Red Hat falls into the trap every time and he is not alone

[Shazz-zaam]

Ditzyboy, I agree 100% with what you wrote.

Get the unions working together, it's the only way that we can get the company to listen to the frontliners.

Surely it's the customers that suffer in the end.

Mr Joyce, if you are reading this, we have to get rid of the useless bureaucrats in the office. We need a fresh start. We don't need to be dominated by power hungry individuals who are only interested in how hi they can climb the ivory tower.

To those people in the office, remember, rooster one day, feather duster the next.

[mohikan]

Heres a simple but unfortunate reality for the Australian cabin crew posting on this thread.

By and large, compared to your competitors in South East Asia, your service and more importantly your attitude to service is inferior.

Additionally, for the provision of the generally bad and rude attitude you have to customers, you are paid five to six times more then SQ / CX / JL / VN / MH ect.

I dont mind a LH F/A being on 70K and a CSM being on 100K, but the look of hatred on most of your faces when a passenger pushes a call button doesnt really make this money stack up against your competitors.

I totally agree that Qantas management, particularly the black widow and her scum underlings are beneath contempt. The problem is that by your poor work ethic and bad attitude you are collectively giving CC management the ammunition to replace you with low cost Thai and Chinese labour.

Rise above it and your pi$$ poor management and be what QF cabin crew used to be in the 70's - the best in the world.

Good luck

[speedbirdhouse]

Ignore the troll.

[dizzylizzy]

Its just the way it is. :D:D:D

[speedbirdhouse]

Correction.

Trolls......

[RENURPP]

Its impossible to argue with this comment. Its the reason I don't travel QF internationally any more. The airlines mentioned below are a pleasure to travel with.

Heres a simple but unfortunate reality for the Australian cabin crew posting on this thread.

By and large, compared to your competitors in South East Asia, your service and more importantly your attitude to service is inferior.

Additionally, for the provision of the generally bad and rude attitude you have to customers, you are paid five to six times more then SQ / CX / JL / VN / MH ect.

I dont mind a LH F/A being on 70K and a CSM being on 100K, but the look of hatred on most of your faces when a passenger pushes a call button doesnt really make this money stack up against your competitors.

I totally agree that Qantas management, particularly the black widow and her scum underlings are beneath contempt. The problem is that by your poor work ethic and bad attitude you are collectively giving CC management the ammunition to replace you with low cost Thai and Chinese labour.

Rise above it and your pi$$ poor management and be what QF cabin crew used to be in the 70's - the best in the world.

Good luck

[speedbirdhouse]

Qantas Official 4 Star Ranking for Qantas onboard product and Qantas staff service quality (http://www.airlinequality.com/Airlines/QF.htm)

[indamiddle]

sq crew are paid very similarly to qf crew when the bonus for both are thrown in. don't know where you managed to find figures that we are paid 5 times as much. look forward to you producing those statistics to back up your claim

[Ken Borough]

Back to the main gist of the topic....

IF Qantas in its wisdom demands certain standards for those who choose to wear its uniform, then it has to be reasonable that it is able to enforce them. It is all a matter of discipline: mention was made of SQ and its standards. Well, let me say that they don't have to worry about enforcement as its staff are sufficiently disciplined to comply with them as that is what their employer reasonably expects. Why QF crew can;t do the same is a matter for them but if they don't like what their employer requires of them, they should simply move on.


How many times have you seen crew with

1. "extreme" haircuts,

2. various badges adoring their jackets (incl. RSL badges and other non-company stuff),

3. 'dangly' earrings which potentially could be a danger to the wearer in the event of an issue on board (ever heard of them being ripped from the lobe?)

and the list could continue.


Get with it folks or foxtrot oscar and allow willing others show how it should be done!

[twiggs]

sq crew are paid very similarly to qf crew when the bonus for both are thrown in

Haha, funny one.
On second thoughts, the way the Aussie dollar is going it shouldn't be long before AUD$1 buys SGD$0.50 and then your statement will be closer to being correct.

[speedbirdhouse]

More bullsh!t.

Tell us "Audrey" :rolleyes:how a haircut, non company badge or non standard earring influences the customers airline experience?

Do you SERIOUSLY think that fare paying passengers gives any of these details any consideration??

If you do you truly are delusional.

Oh btw. I've no idea what constitutes an "extreme haircut" :rolleyes: but crew don't wear non company badges or dangly earrings.

The link I posted previously has our customer's thoughts on QF crew grooming.

More bullsh!t anyone?

[speedbirdhouse]

Cabin Crew FAQ--Singapore Airlines (http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/en_UK/content/company_info/careers/CabinCrewFAQ.jsp)

FIRST YEAR Singapore Airlines F/A can expect to earn $42 000 SIN dollars a year with performance bonuses often amounting to two, three or more months pay.

Current exchange rate 1 for 1 or thereabouts.

Tax rates in Singapore should be taken into account and are FAR lower than ours.

The website also suggests pay package includes medical AND dental benefits.

More bullsh!t anyone?

Oh BTW Twiggs,

last year's bonus paid to Singapore Airlines staff was 6.07 months pay.

Do you need me to do the maths for you?

[RedTBar]

Ken,What extreme haircuts?
But your right Ken because the wrong ear rings could cause a disaster and bring about the end of the world.Australian crew have long been known for being able to talk with pax and having a sense of humour unlike some asian carriers .
Haha, funny one.
Twiggsy girl,what else can the office come up with.Topics like this really show who is crew and who is not.When the Aussie dollar was this rate against the greenback was the rate against the Sing dollar 50 cents.
NOoooooooo but remember it's the destinations that are important and not the money.

Speedbirdhouse,don't forget to add that SIA has seats alocated for staff travel on each aircraft unlike our company who just comes out with embargo after embargo.So you can add that to their income package as well.Also don't forget the difference in living costs between Singapore and Australia twiggsy girl because it all adds up.But as Speedbirdhouse said keep up the BS.

[speedbirdhouse]

Twiggs,

I forgot to tell you.

Singapore Airlines [see real airline] paid an INCREASE in pay to their elite A380 crew.

Unlike QANTAS [see circus] who mandated a PAY CUT for the privelidge of working on our FLAGSHIP aircraft.

Whats it going to be like when you have 3 or 4 of them flying around the world all crewed by life, work and airline experience poor 20 somethings all earning less than a Coles check out chick??

I'll tell you.

Even worse than it is now.................:ok:

__________________

Now is not the time for experienced career Cabin Crew to migrate to the dugong.

I have a feeling that QF's hand is going to be forced..............

[twiggs]

FIRST YEAR Singapore Airlines F/A can expect to earn $42 000 SIN dollars a year with performance bonuses often amounting to two, three or more months pay.

So they earn about the same as QCCA then, thanks for confirming that.
By the way, how many hours do they do per month to earn this?

[mrpaxing]

sq employees can expect to get a low interest housing loan (around 2%), get a descent government pension when they retire, have a great health care system which is fully covered and with last years 6 month performance bonus a junior F/A got around sin $ 60000.- last year. oh twiggs, did we mention a low tax rate as well. back to work, stop using company time!!!:ugh:
and as for hours flown a year very similar to QF LH crew-no bidding system.
one more important point. SQ has about 1/3 of cabin crew management compared to QF.

[capt.cynical]

Twiggs, you are on a hiding to nowhere. GIVE UP :ugh::*

[twiggs]

sq employees can expect to get a low interest housing loan (around 2%), get a descent government pension when they retire, have a great health care system which is fully covered and with last years 6 month performance bonus a junior F/A got around sin $ 60000.- last year. oh twiggs, did we mention a low tax rate as well. back to work, stop using company time!!!:ugh:
and as for hours flown a year very similar to QF LH crew-no bidding system.

If you think the cost of living and benefits of living in Singapore are that good then move there, but what that has to do with how much per flying hour each crew member costs the company is jack ****.

P.S. if you want to fly on SQ cabin crew terms and conditions, I think the company would be more than happy to oblige you.
Why don't you suggest that to the FAAA and see if they think that is a good idea?

[capt.cynical]

I can hear a moderators padlock rattling.:D

[Orangputi]

Totally agree with Mohikan

Mohikan is no troll he is just telling the truth love!

I no longer travel QF long haul as it is crap. I traveled J class SIN/SYD with QF and have traveled SIN/SYD on SQ Y class and SQ's economy class is far superior to QF business class. SQ business class is a fantastic experience far beyond QF could emulate.

I used to work for QF in the good old days and I dont really recognise the Ariline now!
As for QF short haul I think it is worse again.

I will stick with Asian carriers they know who to treat their paxs like guests not just a hinderance.

Just my two cents worth

[mrpaxing]

pointed out 1/3 of management and so on. i would move there tomorrow,unfortunatly they dont employ foreigners. reminds me of the inflated stats Qf management used to show crew trying to point out the differences of costs. a few specific questions by some f/a,s about cost structure was enough to shut them up quickly and move on. qf cabin crew management must be amongst the most expensive in the world by now. certainly in terms of numbers they keep multiplying.
twiggy, if you want to know more in detail, talk to some of
qf ex sq f/a,s. they can give you a very detailed picture.:oh:
Ps: i dont have anything against a company wide incentive based performance a'la SQ: everyone gets the same percentage if the company does well. however, that would sit not too well with corporate culture in Oz.

[RedTBar]

Twiggsy Girl,
This thread is about the office priorities and it's attitude to crew.We all know that you are here to put the company point of view.
This is not about SIA but if you want to hear some facts then read the above posts.
But in direct comparison to SIA management there are less management than us.
They offer more to crew such as better staff travel and incentives like financial a bonus or between 3 & 6 months pay.
Telling us that if we think Singapore is so great then move there is typical of our management.
I will stick with Asian carriers they know who to treat their paxs like guests not just a hinderance.
Agree orangputi but that is a direct result of management practice in OZ.

I think it's time to ignore Twiggs because she wants this thread to be locked by the mods and will keep going until it is.

[lowerlobe]

The attitude of the company management to Cabin Crew is or seems to be one of hostility...especially when any criticism of the office or it's procedure is forthcoming.

I think the main problem is that there are people in the office that justify their jobs by being belligerent.By enforcing silly and mundane things like correct position of name badges and so on does nothing for morale or the job in general.If someone is not wearing a name badge or correct uniform it is understandable but to insist on it's placing down to the 'nth' degree is another....

If the office got on with crew not only would the job be better but the product would be as well.No crew is going to give their best if they have just been hauled over the coals for some trivial matter.

[prunezeuss]

KB is 32 years old and does not understand the difference between teaching and disciplining children and training and motivating adults.
In this he has a lot in common with Cabin Services Management.
Children and adults react differently to attempts at discipline.
Its basic psychology applied poorly by management.
They(management)are paying the price for their incompetence.
Ironically(if it is to be believed)customer surveys indicate an all time satisfaction rating for cabin crew

[Walter E Kurtz]

Children and adults react differently to attempts at discipline.

When discipline intensity is increased; raised to the edge of torture, the arrogant adult also behaves like the now obedient, once wayward child. Some QF competitors fully exploit this behavioural fact. Careful what you wish for, every day you are further from Kansas Dorathy.

[indamiddle]

so sq have 1/3 less management, up to 22 crew on a 747-400. no wonder they get such a big bonus and highest ratings in cabin service. when mini-me gets in wait for the broom to sweep through management. twiggs, this is why we call you 'the visitors'. hope you didn't throw out the situations vacant notice in yesterdays newspaper..... good luck!

[lowerlobe]

indamiddle....
You've hit the nail on the head and it's something the office and it's spokesperson Twiggs does not admit or even want to talk about.

It's almost impossible to compete with another airline if they have more crew in the cabin.The surveys tell us that other airlines cabin crew are more visible....the simple reason is that there are more of them.You cannot deny that if there are 4 or 5 more crew at least then the crew presence in the cabin is more pronounced.The passengers notice it and the surveys reflect it.

Other airlines have more crew ,less management and get better survey results.Yet company reps like twiggs and other office staff continue to talk about crew costs.

The irony of this is one of Twiggs most famous lines...."it's not the money that's important it's the destinations"

[twiggs]

so sq have 1/3 less management, up to 22 crew on a 747-400. no wonder they get such a big bonus and highest ratings in cabin service.
I don't know where you guys get your info but 17 is closer to the correct figure, and we now have 16.
Not much difference really, although it really means nothing unless you take into account the p-j-y ratio.
I find it very funny that because I correct the inaccurate information you lot post here you think I am the devil.
Just like lobe trying to rewrite the physics books, you can write all the crap on this forum that you want, but the truth will never change.

[lowerlobe]

I find it very funny that because I correct the inaccurate information you lot post here you think I am the devil.
Again we get the usual misinformation and obtuse replies from the office representative Twiggs.

You must have drawn the short straw to work in the office on Sunday Twiggs but maybe that's why you are online as it's fairly quiet on the Weekends.

They never admit anything such as other airlines having more crew and only complain to you that other airlines crew are more visible......pretty obvious really when there are more of them but we are talking of twiggs and the office:ugh:

If they can't understand the simple fact that more crew in the cabin equates to increased passenger satisfaction then how on earth could you expect Twiggs to understand something more complex like physics.
the truth will never change
Probably the only really correct and factual statement you have made twiggs.The same can be said of the attitude in the office and the reason of this thread.
However,you should have added that it will always be slanted and coloured by those who don't want the truth to be known.

[twiggs]

Arguing that we can't provide as good a service as our competitors because we have less crew is pointless exercise.
Whilst most asian carriers do have slightly more crew, the real advantage they have is less rules governing rest periods and OH&S.
We are very lucky as workers in Australia that we do have such protections for the employee, but that does not remove the fact that other airlines exploit this to their advantage.

The post by by mohican (http://www.pprune.org/d-g-reporting-points/350025-qantas-cabin-services-priorities-3.html#post4542807) went right over the head of most here and really was very sound advice.
The one thing we have to do if we are to protect our conditions is to prove we are worthy of them, and to try to justify having a bad attitude just because management are telling us to put a badge in a particular position is insane.
There is no justification for having a bad attitude in the service industry, no matter what wage you are on.
Now the posts by RENURPP and orangputi may be true if they travel in economy as I believe that is where Qantas Cabin Service Priorities are wrong.
I believe our service in J and P is excellent, although our hard product will never be as good as our competitors.
Ordinary and her gang do need to be booted because this crap about doing a 4 hour service in economy, just so that we are forced to be in the cabin, is ridiculous.
The end result is that the whole aircraft is being tied up until that epic is over and consequently we are less able to satisfy individual passenger requests, which is why the impression of unavailibilty is felt.

[RedTBar]

Hey lobey great to see you back mate and I laughed when I saw your point about it being quiet in the office.
It must be a sluggish in the fishbowl today.I bet they even managed to finish the Sunday papers and chuck a few clause 11's around as well.I gotta laugh about the story twiggsy girl puts out about blaming OH&S and crew rest for the idea pax have of fewer crew with us.
The reason twiggsy girl is that there are less crew.
Arguing that we can't provide as good a service as our competitors because we have less crew is pointless exercise.
Only the office would say that twiggsy because it would mean admitting they are wrong.
Simple questions Twiggsy girl.
1: DO other airlines on our runs have more crew than we do or not?
2: Since we all know the answer is yes then DO the pax see more crew in the cabin than with us?
3: DO the pax get drinks faster,meals quicker,call bells answered faster because they have more crew in the cabin?
YES,YES & YES because it's hard to go head to head with a competitor with more players.It would be like a football team fielding a game with a few players less than the opposition.The coach keeps coming up with ideas to make it look like you have as many players as the other team but all the people in the grandstand can see whats going on.
No one is being fooled by the antics of the office twiggs and as someone else said your on a hiding to nothing if you keep trying to shift the attention away from this.
justify having a bad attitude just because management are telling us to put a badge in a particular position is insane.
Nobody is saying that crew have a bad attitude because of bad management although it's good to see you admit the management is bad.What we are saying is that crew would be in a better frame of mind if they were not hounded by the office goons for some insignificant detail.If you think the pax are worried or even notice a name badge a cm or 2 different to the runway guide you are deluded.
Years ago the crew I was on swapped name badges with the girls wearing the boys badges and so on.Not one pax noticed or said anything which say's it all.But you and the rest of the office would have stood us all down and given us clause 11's for having fun.
It's also typical of you and other office types to jump in and say our crew have a bad attitiude.
although our hard product will never be as good as our competitors.
Why is that twiggsy girl? why can't it be?
consequently we are less able to satisfy individual passenger requests, which is why the impression of unavailibilty is felt.
No,although a 4 hour saga in y/c is bad for the pax because they really want to just get their food and go to sleep or watch a movie instead of waiting a million years between a drink and a meal and then a cuppa.
The real problem about the impression of more crew on other airlines is that there are more of them on other airlines ,pure and simple and yes insane as you put it.

[mrpaxing]

having a cup of tea then this rubbish is posted. Twiggsy says
"Whilst most asian carriers do have slightly more crew, the real advantage they have is less rules governing rest periods and OH&S."
now i really know you have no idea what the state of affairs are with our competitors. i wont go into details but lets put it into a simple sentence, which you may or may not understand.They are all governed by their local civil aviation regulations(which covers a lot of the above mentioned).:sad:

[twiggs]

They are all governed by their local civil aviation regulations(which covers a lot of the above mentioned).:sad:
So tell me then mrpaxing, why is that EK crew do not even have crew rest seats on their flight between asia and Australia?

[speedbirdhouse]

Quote- "the real advantage they [Asian carriers] have is less rules governing rest periods and OH&S."

____________

Twiggs,

I have a rhetorical question for you.

Whilst it's understood that you do work in the office are you REALLY this cretinous????:ugh:

Tell us what "advantage" [your word] Qantas would have, had it the ability to DENY it's cabin crew a safe working environment or a seat to sit on to achieve rest.??

[twiggs]

Speedbird,
it is only people like lobe who doesn't like people disagreeing with him that started the rumour that I work in the office.
I don't.
Advantage, well maybe I chose the wrong word, as you seem to think I think it is a good thing.
I'm stating fact, that's all.
When you see f/a's from other carriers pushing carts around on their own and not having a break on an 8 hour sector, you will realise how good we have it.
Then maybe you will realise my point, and that is we cannot afford to let any managerial bullying tactic get to us and let it affect how we treat the passengers onboard.
Most of us don't, but the fools that get on here and try to justify such behaviour really should not be in the service industry.
The people who do have attitude are few, but it is those few who give us all a bad name.

By the way Speedbird, you never did tell us how many hours SQ crew fly to earn the same as our QCCA crew do.

[speedbirdhouse]

Quote- "my point........ is we cannot afford to let any managerial bullying tactic get to us and let it affect how we treat the passengers onboard."


Do you understand the relationship between cause and effect?

________

You are also implying that Singapore Airlines crew work longer hours than QF crew do for their [last years] joining wage/package of $60 000 SIN +.

Do They?

[ZimmerFly]

Speedbirdhouse post 62

Those other airlines mentioned are 5 Star !!! QED

[twiggs]

You are also implying that Singapore Airlines crew work longer hours than QF crew do for their [last years] joining wage/package of $60 000 SIN +.

Do They?
Firstly they do not earn $60000 per year.
The figure $3500 per month is including all allowances.
Their basic pay is close to $1000 per month.
Secondly yes, they work much more hours than QAL crew, probably more like QCCA's maximum, and they only get credited hours blocks-blocks, ie no pay prior to push back or after arrival.

[speedbirdhouse]

Lets break it down for you shall we Twiggs.

Package for brand new Singapore Airlines Cabin Crew-

$3500 X 12 = 42000

Plus Medical benefits

Plus Dental benefits

Plus 1 free return ticket to anywhere they fly.

Plus last year's bonus paid to all staff calculated at just over 6 months pay.

Looks like a $60 000 + package to me and substantially more than what a Coles "check out chick" would earn here..:rolleyes:

[twiggs]

Speedbird, you provided a link from which I quote the following "Upon graduation from training, you can look forward to a basic salary and various allowances amounting to about SGD$3,500 a month"
How do you get from $3500 per month to $60000+ per year?

OK, you beat me to the post button, unfortunately the 6 month bonus is calculated on basic pay, which puts your calculations out just a bit.
So, probably closer to $48000, which is only because of a performance bonus.
Probably about the same as QCCA when you add in allowances etc.

[speedbirdhouse]

I can't help you if you can't help yourself.

[lowerlobe]

Just popped in to see what’s going on and as usual it’s Twiggs and her myopic viewpoint.

So apparently,I don’t like someone disagreeing with me…has anyone here watched Twiggs posts when someone disagree’s with her…Look at her posts with Speedbird….In fact I don’t doubt that she has a hot line to the moderators.

Twiggs tells us that she doesn’t work in the office…..Now I wonder where we could have got the impression that she does…Let’s look at some of Twiggs best posts and how they relate to the role of Cabin Crew and their relationship with the office.In other words what side of the fence she sits on or in…

These are direct quotes from Twiggs own posts and although she seems to have trouble remembering her own words anyone can look them up and see for themselves.....
I think everyone has lost sight of what this job is about, and it aint money.
It's about the destinations.
In other words,QCCA
Anyone heard about the 2 Aust based guys stood down for providing their own specialised service to a 17 year old girl in the cabin crew rest seats on a LHR flight?
So once again Twiggs takes the viewpoint crew were guilty before an investigation or trial and is prepared to post it in a public forum…
Even Emirates have no crew rest seats on their 777's.
Jet* Asia definitely do not have them and I can't imagine Jet* international would waste valuable pax seats to put crew in when they have perfectly good jump seats to sit in.
So does this sound like a crew member talking or someone in the office.Of course now that this has been pointed out, Twiggs is saying that she was only being sarcastic….but to me it just sounds like a company spokesperson.KB couldn’t have put it better for the company.
The slipping formula, as it stands, will be very hard to retain as it applies regardless of the fatigue factor of the previous sectors
Also the minimum length of it being 46hrs is probably difficult to justify.
Mmmmmm Company or crew talking with that one.
The best one though is this one where Twiggs let a bit too much information out about a crew that elected not to extend because of a delay.Twiggs was not one of the crew but seems to know a lot of inside info…..
In the delay in question, one option presented to the crew was to take minimum rest in Narita and get home as scheduled, and the duty was to be treated as a continuous one (lots of overtime), from sign on in MEL till sign off in SYD.
It was only an option given, not a request, and was probably declined as the crew in question did not consider that amount of rest to warrant the extra money or the fact that they would probably get home a day late.

The S/H crew that were called out, paxed to NRT had 12 hrs off and operated back to SYD, slightly easier than if the L/H crew had operated a delayed service, had less than 12 hrs off, and then operated back to SYD

You can make up your own minds after reading her quotes as to her real job....

[prunezeuss]

1.Cabin Services Management are inept buffoons
2.Qantas as a corporation is imploding
3.It is going to take a gargantuan effort on the part of Allan Joyce to sort the mess out.
4.It is clear it will not happen overnight.
5.Sniping at each other achieves nothing.
Most Qantas Crew come to work expecting(a) to be delayed(b),to have a number of defects in the Cabin and(c) to have the resources necessary to do their job missing.
The whole situation is a sad sad farce.
A once proud and innovative Airline brought to its knees by a vertically challenged,poorly educated dysfunctional egomaniac and his greedy band of trough feeders.
Most of us are way over the fear factor.We will not be threatened or intimidated by Cabin Services Managment.
It has now become sport to bait them.A little lite entertainment before going to work always works for me.They are so easy to take the piss out of

[speedbirdhouse]

So very true.

Had a conversation with a truly excellent long serving Business First flight attendant recently.

She explained that the frustration and contempt she holds for QF management are never taken out on the fare paying passenger because as she explained. They are not responsible for the way she is treated.

She does however at every opportunity use passive, obstructive, resistance towards those that "manage" her.

Cause and effect.

[dizzylizzy]

jqi crew rest on a330 is row of seats that are 'blocked off' (meaning inseatd of headrest covers it says "crew rest only"). These seats are not necessairly blocked off esp exDPS and is at the "CSM's" discretion.

[prunezeuss]

DizzyLizzy...what on earth are you talking about?

[speedbirdhouse]

Whenever any of you are verbally threatened over sick leave, KPI bullsh1t, uniform violations, delays or any other form of "harassment with a feather", do what so many of us are now doing.

Write the harasser [your manager] an email thanking them for the conversation and outlining the nature and specifics of the "conversation".

Advise at the end of this email that you wish a copy of it to be placed on your personal file and that you'll be retaining a copy for your records.

I can guarantee that the sociopathic, lowlife coward that calls themselves a manager will skulk off to find easier and weaker targets.

It is time to fight back.

[lowerlobe]

prunezeuss......I agree with your post and that if anything is going to be done to reverse a situation that has taken years to achieve it is a huge task.I also agree with you that sniping with each other serves no purpose and that everyone regardless of where they work in aviation has the right to post and put their point of view forward.I just got carried away because some are not as honest as others about where they work and I think hide an agenda....sorry moderators and thanks for your patience.

Back to the thread.....Unfortunately,this sort of leadership or management is endemic throughout the company.I used to wonder how it was allowed to happen because I believe it is counter productive especially in a service industry.However,whether it was by design or neglect it will be a monumental job to reverse.

Speedbird is right and insisting that everything that was said should be recorded on paper is a good idea.Another idea I always found successful was to insist that the manager include his/her name,staff number and position 'CURRENTLY' held with the company.....with the emphasis on the word currently.Also smile when you say the last sentence....

As was mentioned it is a great form of passive resistance.

[indamiddle]

when you send an email to a manager that does not reply with a satisfactory answer you can email their superior with any complaint about them. the trick is to 'cc' a copy to the personal file of the original manager and 'bcc' a copy back to your own email address. this can be particularly handy if in future you initiate harassment/discrimination claim against manager plus it also looks very bad on their personal file. suddenly you will find your manager no longer wants to know you even exist. .....mindf***ing in reverse!

[Ka.Boom]

Passive Resistance was used to great effect by Gandhi.
It could be used just as effectively by CC.
The Screw The Roo campaign was an example of how CC can cooperate.
With a little bit of effort another campaign could begin.

[speedbirdhouse]

What about a STB campaign??

[flyinggit]

I recently took a QF flight ex Syd & the cabin crew where friendly enough. I know one thing is for sure I'd hate to have to deal with the public in a confined space!
Maybe now that we have seen a deterioration in T&C's (from what I read here) for crews in general it reflects back to the very people that are at the coal face of their service, the flying public. I always wanted since I was a kid to be either an Ansett or Qantas pilot but since I have learnt to fly (getting there) AN has gone & QF isn't the choice work place by the sounds of it, what now?:bored:

Flyinggit

[argusmoon]

Australian Aviation has never really recovered from the events of 1989.
Ansett fell over..... or rather was pushed over.
Then the merger of TAA and Qantas and the resultant loss of managerial talent.
Employees in Australian Aviation have been attacked by management and you now see the mess that the industry is in.
Everybody trying to cut costs.
What they(management)have failed to realize(Particulalry at Qantas)if you portray yourself as a premium carrier there is a minimum spend required.
Many carriers in Australia are way below that minimum spend.
Competitors such as Cathay Singapore JAL and Emirates throw a lot of money at their product and in general it shows.
Whether or not they all treat their employees remains to be seen.
Are Australians whingers or are they just more vocal about mistreatment?