Over wing emergency exit. Great instructions

[beamender99]

For the first time ever, when in an emergency exit seat, I was given full and comprehensive instructions.
Flying SA from PLZ to CPT.
The instructions were of course on the card but also diagrams etc were pasted on the frame at the side of window ( including the weight of the window).
CC gave very clear instructions on removing the window.
He also explained " Check for smoke / fire on my side" and how to indicate to other passengers NOT to use my exit.

I really appreciated this well presented, in your face, "this is serious!" approach. Well done SA.
It certainly underlined that the primary role of CC is first, safety for all then every thing else is secondary.

I am not so sure I would stand with my back to the window with my arms crossed across my chest trying to ensure the other exits were used instead.
I am unsure if the rest of the pax were briefed to understand my potential message.
These instructions came as a bit of a shock to my infrequent travelling friends across the ailse.

Is this sort of approach carried out on other carriers?
Are there any significant variations on the instructions?

[CD]

Very similar to what you will find on just about any Canadian airline, as there is a requirement ensure that each passenger who is seated next to a window emergency exit is informed by a crew member that the window is an emergency exit and is made aware of how to operate that exit.

[VAFFPAX]

Comair (BA) used to have the same kind of in-your-face demo between WDH and JNB. Also, the CC would check with you whether you would be willing to do what is required, or whether you're just sitting in the emergency exit row for the legroom, and whether you were even capable of doing it in the first place.

S.

[wiggy]

Well done SA - and all the other airlines that brief this aspect of "self-help" SEP properly.

As a casual observer ( aka "commuting crew") it's always interested me to see the response from pax sitting in these rows when told of their responsibilities and also that they cannot now stow their 15 items of handbaggage under the seat in front of them.....the usual grumble is then along the lines of ".. I only wanted this row because of the leg room, don't bother me with the other ***".

Perhaps these facts should be made clear at check-in, or better still the row reserved for positioning/commuting crew :E:E:E

[oldbalboy]

i work for a 'leading' British charter operator and for many years now we have given a full (semi ABP) briefing to all passengers sat in seat rows adjacent to 'self help' (o/wing) exits, including checking for hazards etc and full opening instructions, suprisingly on a couple of occassions pax have asked to be moved as they dont want the responsibility but most listen carefully and are happy to sit there (usually due to extra legroom)

[Ancient Mariner]

Not over-wing, but had an interesting piece of SLF DIY instruction on an old TU-154 on a very domestic flight in China in the early 90'ies.
I was in seat B and A was removed and replaced with a huge crate with an instruction afixed.
EMERGENCY SLIDE
1. Remove emergency exit. (No problem apart from an engine located just outside)
2. Open crate
3. Take out slide
4. Remove string holding slide bundlet up
5. Throw slide out emergency exit
6. Open valve on air bottle to inflate slide
7. Try to fit your body through emergency exit
8. Pray slide is still there

Scenes of Chinese passengers getting points 5 and 6 mixed up kept flashing past my eyes and might explain why I kept choking on my Cognac. No, not from the inflight "service", from my private flask.:8
Per

[Little_Red_Hat]

Australian carriers do the same... required to inform pax of:

1) They are sitting in emergency exit row
2) They may be required to operate the exit in an emergency
3) The signal to open the exit
4) How to operate the exit
5) Checking the esit is safe
6) Not to open the exit if unsafe

Also the crew check suitability of pax to be seated there. Personally, if the pax aren't listening and refuse to listen when I ask (again) for their attention then they get moved. End of story.

Exit row briefings are covered by CASA regulations, I'm sure most other airlines are covered by this also.

You'd be surprised how many 'frequent flyers' have 'heard it all before' but then look very surprised that they are seated at a plug-type exit not a Type III outward-opening exit!!!!!!!!!! :ugh:

[boardingpass]

Wow, if I gave the full SA ABADOWOMS briefing to the very superstitious italian passengers I fly with, I'd be lucky to have a single person sitting there (apart from the deaf passenger who smiles and nods). We do the regulatory requirements of course, and then if ever we should have a pre-planned emergency, we'd give a very detailed brief about how/when and when not to open, etc.

But thanks Levis, now I know what briefing to give if I want to get an unsuitable person to move without having to actually ask them... :ok:

[StaceyF]

We got the full treatment when we flew Bristol to Ivalo (daytrip to see Santa four days before Christmas).

We were the only couple without kids in tow so were deliberately seated there (loads of legroom :):):)).

Full instructions on everything.

[jimworcs]

.... if you send me a private message, I have some vital information that you really should know by now..:}

[StaceyF]

.... if you send me a private message, I have some vital information that you really should know by now..:}

Well, he was in his log cabin deep in the forest - what are you saying? That some guy's been strapped into a red and white outfit and planted out there? :E:E

Mind you, his Cockney accent sort of ruined the illusion......

[Getoutofmygalley]

Mind you, his Cockney accent sort of ruined the illusion......

Where was Gary Glitter last seen? :E

[wapses]

I heard the story recently of an Etihad flight attendant giving the emergency exit briefing to a pax and then telling him he could not drink alcohol if he sat in the emergency exit seat.

Anyone heard that before?

[206cc_jim]

It is a requirement (at least in my company and I believe the CAA-Etihad's regulators may have similar rules, most authorities are the same) that a person is not drunk when sitting at an emergency exit.

If the CC felt(or in any doubt) that person had already enjoyed a few preflight, it may of been a sensible precaution. I have sat in the emergency exit of a Etihad flight previously and been served alcohol.

[BestonBoard]

I fully respect all my fellow crew members when giving these briefings, and believe that at all times you should stress the importance of these emergency exit seats, with the added bonus of extra leg room of course (which a lot of charter airlines in the UK charge you for the luxury of!)
I appreciate that this may belong in another thread perhaps... However I find it so frustrating when you try to explain to someone during boarding about their importance, why bags can't be on the floor etc and you end up with, basically an argument on your hands...
An example that happened to me quite recently...
Boeing 757-300 situated at the overwings for boarding...
pax "My seat doesn't recline..." (An "excuse me" or "hello" might have been nice)
me "Unfortunately sir, due to the design of these seats, and as not to obstruct the exit (gesturing to it) these seats do have a very limited recline..." (there is some movement, albeit not a lot)
pax "Well, thats not good enough, I paid for an extra leg room seat!"
me "You have an extra leg room seat sir, you may be able to tell from the rows you have walked past that you have considerably more leg room..."
pax "BUT I PAID FOR EXTRA LEG ROOM! MY SEAT DOESNT RECLINE!"
me"You have extra leg room sir, I can do my best to ask someone else to move you if you would prefer a seat that would recline"
pax "Is it extra leg room?"
me "I'm afraid not... Those seats come at a higher cost than these (trying to be humurous)
pax "A normal seat then?" (humour didn't work)
me" Which reclines sir... If that's what you would like?"
pax "AND YOU WILL GIVE ME A REFUND??? (Raising his voice)"
me "I will gladly give you the details of how to get a refund sir"
pax "I WANT A REFUND FROM YOU, NOW!"
me "As you did not purchase the extra leg room seat on board sir, I'm afraid I'm not authorised to refund you..."

I could go on and on with the to and fro regarding the hand baggage on the floor, the coats on the laps etc etc... and the only retort was "I PAID FOR AN EXTRA LEG ROOM SEAT!!!"

The safety demonstration (both video and manual) for my current airline states that we have a zero tolerance policy... I wish we could include it in the boarding PA!

"Ladies and gentleman, the primary concern of the cabin crew onboard today is your safety..."

I think this notion is getting lost over time... delivering outstanding service, immaculate crew and sweet smiles are all part and parcel of why people are crew... Safety is not negotiable... unfortunately in that instance, I did move the chap in question, mainly because his wife told me she "didn't do responisbility" ... and ok, I may have got a little satisfaction from it, but joe public seem to be pushing the boundaries more and more regarding the role of crew on board....

Sorry, rant over...

BoB

[Little_Red_Hat]

Bob, I totally agree!

I regularly get the 'argument' about hand luggage, coats/papers/shoes on ground etc... I've found that when boarding passengers pointing out to the ones sitting in the exit rows that they are, and all bags need to go up top & please review the card even if they've read it before... generally as the line is moving quickly and other pax are watching they don't argue. Helps 'prepare' them for the crew briefing them on board :E

Now, I just smile sweetly and explain that actually despite appearances, these seats are not designed for leg room but for an escape route in an emergency and as such must remain clear.... they seem to pay attention at that bit.

With alcohol... common sense applies. If I think the pax are getting a bit merry I explain that sure, they may have another drink but to do so we'll require them to change seats in which case they can continue with the drinks (within reason)

[wapses]

The airline is at fault if they do not explain that paying for a seat with extra legroom means that you also get limited recline.

I too would complain if this hadn't been specified before I parted with my money.

[Getoutofmygalley]

The airline is at fault if they do not explain that paying for a seat with extra legroom means that you also get limited recline.


Rubbish! The seats are sold as extra leg room so that taller people may choose to purchase them to sit more comfortably. Why on earth should the airline specify if the seats recline or not when the person is specifically looking for extra leg room?

[Little_Red_Hat]

One other thing that annoys me re: seat recline/lack of...

Some aircraft have the facility of a seat lock-out which the crew unlock after take off, to allow the seats to recline as normal. Many times as I come down the cabin after t/o I'll see one seat in a row reclined... (the lock-out is checked prior to boarding, so it's definitely locked at t/o) and either the pax has

a) forced the seat back against the lock (which admittedly it doesnt go far but if they force it enough.. they can) and then rendered it u/s for landing...

or b) been a cheeky enough so-and-so to reach down and UNLOCK THE SEATS themselves!!!

Once, on approaching the pax re his reclined seat (with the seat lock still engaged) I was interrupted with "Oi this seat don't work, it dosn't go back (pax pushes against seatback repeatedly) it's broken!" Response?? "If you'd stop pushing the seat against the lock sir it wouldn't BE broken... followed by an explanation that they should wait for the crew to recline their seats!

As for the pax who unlocked the seat lock, he did this on t/o.... had we overrun and needed to evac we could well have had an entire exit row unuseable!! When I explained to him why he must not do what he did I was met with "I can do what I want this is my seat"

You can guess that the next step involved 'not any more it isn't!' :E

[wapses]

Sorry, Getoutofmygalley, not RUBBISH at all.

It would be like upgrading a rental car to get a bigger boot and then finding that the upgraded car didn't have a heater. Saying to the customer "Well you asked for a bigger boot, you didn't specify a heater" just wouldn't wash, would it?

Of course the airline should specify at the time of purchase that the extra leg-room seats don't recline. Otherwise the Advertising Standards guys will have complaints on their hands.

[Getoutofmygalley]

No, it is rubbish!

It's nothing like upgrading a rental car to get a bigger boot and finding no heater installed, because cars have heaters as standard.

Airplane seats differ due to their locations on the aircraft and sometimes differ between one aircraft in the fleet and another.

A leg room seat is a leg room seat and is sold as giving extra legroom. The advertising standards guys wouldn't give a toss about whether it is a recliner or not, they would only be concerned if the leg room seat was in fact not a leg room seat (i.e. standard pitch). As the airline offered a seat with extra leg room, they have fulfilled their part of the contract.

Your suggestion that the airline should advertise leg room seats as being non-reclining is ridiculous. What else should they say? "This leg room seat has no recline facility, it is located at row 11 which means that during the food and drink service you will have to wait approximately 35 minutes to get served. You will have to walk 11 rows to a toilet at the front of the aircraft or 15 rows to the rear" - ludicrous! I was looking through the Boots Christmas gift guide yesterday at all the 'amazing' Christmas gifts they have got this year. The amount of stupid extra information included in the text was ridiculous. There was a picture of an ice cream sundae glass - text said "Ice cream not included", then there was a picture of a banana split bowl - text said "banana not included", but I suppose they have to have text like that to protect themselves from complaints from people like you who would say "But there was a banana in the picture"....

[Ancient Mariner]

BestonBoard:
"Ladies and gentleman, the primary concern of the cabin crew onboard today is your safety..."



Would you agree to that statement if you were a passenger on a cruise vessel? That the catering and hotel crew's primary concern was your safety? I bet you would.
To be a sailor on a ship registered in a civilized country you need 60 hours training in first aid and firefighting and in my days we had hands-on drills once every week. And CC's main concern is my safety? Right.
Per

[wapses]

Getoutofmy galley ... get real!

My recent post in reply to your last one was removed because I used a slightly rude word. Thought we were grown-ups on here, but ...

In my experience 98% of all airline seats have some kind of recline. Therefore as a passenger it is not unreasonable to expect that "luxury".

If the airline is charging extra for a seat with more leg-room, but no recline, then it is only reasonable to point this out to the customer at the time of purchase.

So, as I said before, I too would be pi**ed off (there we go, mods, no swear word there) if I only discovered this on board. And who would I complain to? The most accessible staff member of the company ... which happens to be you!

So your course of action should be to tell your airline to get their small print updated so that you didn't have to face angry passengers.

[blueplatinum]

I think check-in staff need to take the issue of ABP seating a lot more seriously.

I recently had to pull up a check-in supervisor who was about to check a family which included a very frail, 80 year old woman into an exit row (they were the last people to check-in and the a/c was full). I pointed out the lady was not ABP and so the agent moved some other PAX who were already checked in. I am not sure if this was just very poor judgement or if they just couldn't be bothered to do the boarding card swap airside.

On other occasions I have had to refuse ABP seating to people who do not meet the ailines ABP rules only to be told "Well we were given it on the way out". So in this case the check-in staff in the UK clearly made a mistake (which was not later corrected by CC).

The last thing CC need is to have to start moving PAX about once boarded just because ground staff cannot be bothered doing their jobs properly. It is our responsibility to make sure PAX are correctly seated at the time boarding cards are issued!

[Little_Red_Hat]

Hear hear BluePlatinum... I have had it to they eyeballs of having to fix check-in fcukups re: exit row requirements... I can point the finger because I have worked check in (another life!!) and would never dream of putting someone's grandma (let alone my own even tho she is pretty healthy for her age) into an exit row. The attitude of 'the cabin crew will sort it out' is NOT acceptable... we are meant as a last resort for exit row mistakes, not as the primary means of deciding who sits there.

And for the passengers (admittedly only a few) who complain they are being 'discriminated against' for being refused theses seats- all I can say is, TOUGH LUCK!! These seats are NOT BUILT FOR COMFORT, How many times do we have to say it?!?!?!:ugh:

[Getoutofmygalley]

Wapses I don't need to get real, I am real!

I don't know why you are complaning about your last reply having been removed for you using a rude word. The mods on this forum obviously felt that whatever the word was, it wasn't in the spirit of the forums and was inappropriate. You say:

Thought we were grown-ups on here, but ...


But to resort to rude words is not adult behaviour, but I digress.

I still stand by my statement that a leg room seat is a leg room seat, therefore if someone purchases a leg room seat they have purchased it because they need the longer leg room due to their height.

The airline I work for has since 2005 had fixed position seats on all new aircraft deliveries. Does having non-recline seats cause problems? NO!

Most crew that I work with prefer being on the fixed seat back aircraft as arguements will nearly always occur in the cabin on the recliner aircraft owing to the passenger infront reclining their seat into the passenger behinds space.

If you are exceptionally tall and have purchased a leg room seat, you won't gain any extra inches by reclining it. Your legs will still be fitting into the same underseat space as they would do on a reclining leg room seat.

I would be interested to know what your position in aviation is wapses, are you cabin crew, flight deck, or just someone who takes a passing interest in all things aviation.

[wapses]

OK, so you and me are not going to agree on this one, Mr/Ms Getoutofmygalley.

My only final comment is, what's wrong with truth in advertising? If there's no recline on the emergency exit seats for which the passenger is paying extra, then why not say so? It would be simple for the airline to mention on the website and would save you the hassle of an irate pax.

However, if you enjoy the hassle, then I wouldn't bother bringing it to the attention of your airline management.

Fact is (and this is not just my opinion) consumers are going to complain if they think they're not getting a fair deal.

So surely (and this is my opinion) better to be honest with the facts up front to save having a dissatisfied customer?

As for my job. Not really relevant to the subject matter. Sufficient to say that I'm what is referred to nowadays as an airline industry veteran (sales, marketing, commercial, management) and a very frequent flyer.

Incidentally, why do Etihad insist on referring to their passengers as "guests". They're not guests, they're passengers. Guests do not normally have to pay. If you're a guest in someone's home, they don't ask you for money. Call me old fashioned, but the word passenger has been quite acceptable for years and still is.

[Getoutofmygalley]

I can't speak for Etihad, but I assume that Etihad probably think it sounds friendlier than the word passenger or customer (call them customers they might remember that they have paid for the service that they are/are not receiving!!).

Don't forget though, leg room seats are not always on the emergency exit rows. Some airlines have extra leg room in a specific part of the cabin (Monarch I believe have their extra leg room at the front of the cabin for a certain number of rows), also it depends on the aircraft type in use.

So an airline won't be able to say "you will/will not have reclining seats....." as it depends very much on what aircraft is being used for that service. If a route is very popular, an airline can substitute a smaller aircraft for a larger one (if they have a spare one available) which would again alter the locations of the leg room seats/emergency exit seats.

And irate pax don't bother me in the slightest, I have been doing this job too long now to let them get to me! :)

[VAFFPAX]

Hotels usually refer to their customers as guests - why not airlines. :-)

S.