swinburne uni/oxford aviation academy pilot training course

[damo1089]

I everyone,
This is my first post here. I am commencing pilot training through Swinburne uni/General Flying Services/Oxford aviation academy next year in melbourne. And for all you wannabe pilots withough 90grand lying around, incase you werent aware, the swinburne course costs 88000aud but 83000 of this can be offsetted through the governments fee help scheme. So you only pay 8000 upfront and it gets you up to a atpl standard with further choices of instructor, multicrew or turbine endorsements. Including of course a bachelor degree in aviation at the end of the course.
Does anyone have any experience with the swinburne course? And i have also been wondering how been trained under oxford aviation academy will increase my job prospects, because it is a pretty prestegious organisation. I have heared many graduates only wait 6 months before they are employed by airlines.

[mr.tos]

Well yea, if your in the UK you would expect to be in a jet within 6 months regardless of the course. If you are staying in OZ, it will turn into about 6 years :{

[damo1089]

yeah, but there is nothing like a working visa :ok:

[BabyGirl]

correct me if i am worng but don't u have to pay 20% of the course fee if its an undergraduate program

[BerksFlyer]

Well yea, if your in the UK you would expect to be in a jet within 6 months regardless of the course.

No. If you're in the UK you'd have little chance of a job, let alone a jet job within 6 months. Take a look around.

[damo1089]

you have to eventually pay all of it back through your future wages, but as for an upfront payment, no.

[BabyGirl]

do you know of anyone who has been to the cadet programs .. would like feedback on the program

[charles321]

Hey mate,

I am currently doing the double degree and ill give you my opinion on the course so far. If you have flying experience else where or started your ppl, get it completed or you will go back to start and be charged 26K(so you would have wasted your money), then you will proceed to be stripped of every dollar possible by Oxford for the rest of your training, they are very slack and you will luckily fly once a week or fortnight, I started with a PPL and did zero flying for 12 months until everyone caught up whilst then having to pay 1.2K for a little g1000 generalisation/test nav at $400 an hour to receive prior recognition because my licence from CASA obviously means nothing. Which is an absolute joke of a rate for a 172S, the course is unorganised and most subjects are not enjoyable at all. You will get a total of 4-6 4 hour theory classes for each CPL subject and be expected to pass and self study from onwards after being taught by some pretty average graduates. Any other school would spend 1-2 Weeks full time 5 days a week on each subject.

Overall i rate the course(flying part) as a complete joke, it is now getting worse with the Jetstar cadetship as they will receive priority over bookings, and there was already not enough instructors and they add another 70 students. This school may look prestigious but it is not. It will not help you in the long run in my opinion given that you do not get to land on any unsealed strips because they are scared you will damage the aeroplane, you will also be charged extra fees(landing fuel etc) and loads of cash for books etc, in which some were not used and should be included in the hire rate like every other school at Moorabbin to a degree. You also complete your training at the slowest possible rate and do the minimum hours required to be able to have a CPL, doing it elsewhere will get it done faster, and you will get more experience and learn more instead of avoiding somethings because that saves costs(ie essendon airport, flyaways, aircraft maintenance). It will also put you ahead of everyone else because you will able to get a job earlier than everyone in the course. Which in turn means faster turn around time before an airline job if that is what you want and you wont have to compete against 70+ kids all with the exact same hours etc for a possible job in GA. You will also have the bonus of being able to fly analogue cockpit instead of taking off and turning the autopilot on ASAP, and letting the plane do the essential skills you would need.

After i use my 26K for this semester and the first stage of the CPL licence, i am out of there, oxford that is, you can still complete the degree and not do any flying, you will have to do the theory at oxford though. Oxford are a complete rip off, I am returning to my previous school where there is a 90% chance i will have my CPL by the end of the year even before December and 100% before the end of January if cash is available. Otherwise i would probably be looking at next year march maybe later. Oxford do not care about you, you become a number to them, in which they lose track of very easily. Where as things were completely different at my previous school. Where i will still fly glass and analogue because airlines do like training on a glass cockpit.

Oxford nearly pushed me into just giving up on becoming a pilot after the absolute crap i have gone through and hurdles i have to jump through. I know this is a joke of a flying school because it took 12 months for some students to complete there PPL last year, and I know a few people who i went through with at school or did my PPL with who already have there MECIR and CPL now, one just started at the end of april and just about to sit his CPL. If you have the cash it would be very wise to go elsewhere and maybe if you want a degree to fall back on do a business degree with Swinburne or do the double degree with Aviation but don't do the flying.

If i had my chance again, I would have done a business or commerce degree or something that interests me, and paid for it to be done privately, whilst this may not be possible for many people, i know a couple of guys who get there parents to back loans or they work for a year before uni earning some money and becoming eligible for a private loan, a few headed to WA to work in the mines and now have enough to pay for their CPL upfront with extra options if they want, I also would have probably completed my CPL now and maybe my instructor rating and have a job. But....


Another major issue is the maintenance on the planes, we are probably paying the most expensive rate at Moorabbin for the planes we fly, and Oxford owns a maintenance company at Moorabbin(sort of). They jumped prices up as soon as fee-help was made possible, because they know the people who cannot afford it, cannot go elsewhere. So they would have very high profit margins, anyway the maintenance on the planes is disgraceful, been a few kids leaving planes in NSW due to alternator failure on the ground luckily, or simple things being U/S in the maintenance release and taking them ages to fix. They pretty much own a maintenance company but obviously refuse to do a good job. Most likely because they need mostly every plane the have got because they have too many students and want the plane back ASAP.

Oh and don't screw up a flight, because you have to pay out of your pocket otherwise due to pretty much zero leeway or cop another 1.8K to fee-help for an extra practicum.

The training they give is useless too, most schools would do your IFR on a multi-engine except oxford give you a single engine IFR rating which is just useless in my opinion and you have to pay or cop another 8K i think for optional Multi after your CPL. Where as the price the charge for a 182 which you do your IFR in is equivalent to a Seminole elsewhere.

PM me if you want any information man. I know i had my hopes high before this course and would defend it to anyone who said a bad word about it. But now it is just spiraling downwards.

And don't get me started on the Qantas cadet ship option or the Jetstar cadet ship.

[onezeroonethree]

I agree with about 90% of what charles321 said.

The course made me very de-motivated very fast. I started the course in 06 (no fee help) and noticed costs rise yearly in Jan/Feb. I think the first hike in 07 that I witnessed was due to "rising fuel prices". After they fell - prices stayed the same, and then eventually went up.

I completed about 175hrs with my CPL (no S/E IFR crap that the new syllabus has) but it only cost me about 55k... nowhere near to the 80 mark some other people are calling.

Never got to fly into YMEN. Only got to land in Colac for a dirt strip - oh and once out of sheer luck on a dirt strip somewhere out near Bendigo.

$1,100 per year in "admin fees". apparently this is to cover costs of them photocopying notes for us (when I asked it was the only answer I got on several occasions over the years). We still got charged the 900$ or so per year for the subjects onto our HECS (as the theory is a swinburne subject). That's $3,300 all up in 3 years.... if any past students have had any issues/success with getting this money back - PLEASE priv message me.

What was said above is mostly right. Classes were in hindsight mediocre. They were good the first year or two but got worse as time went on. It really depended on the instructor you landed - and I cant compare to other schools as I have not really spent much time in any. Some instructors were slack and left us self-studying while some were superb.

Training wise - I landed good instructors who drilled me and really tried to bring the best out in my flying. And my close friends who graduated with me agree the flying training in the actual a/c was fine - maybe we all had good instructors. But it did become a numbers game through no fault of the instructors - filled out with bookings and very very little time to sit down with you and consult you on what you need to improve on. They were all over the place.

Didn't really get to experience any sort of mx related stuff or things that would have benefited me more in GA. Something I was lucky enough to experience quite early on with a GA operator in the bush when I hit the road.

The atmosphere wasn't friendly. It felt more like a business (and yeah, it is but cmon) rather than a training school. After being briefly in other schools in MB - and even though my experiences there were brief - I noticed a clear difference in the atmosphere and how more personal the training is and the relation between isntructor and student and the effort the school puts in to helping you out and making sure you enjoy the journey.

Swinnie students got shafted in bookings behind cadets. At one point in 08 I came very close to doing my training elsewhere and I hear a lot of students do do their PPL in other schools. They might try tell you that you cant - but you can. If you want the degree I believe you only need your CPL test done with OAA as it apparently counts as a subject thats needed for your paper (no credit subject)??.

If you wanted something done or booked in - you had to do all the chasing up. in 2006 when I started it was fine but then it went downhill fast. I had to keep calling and chasing up instructors etc and push them to book me in for flights that I wanted. From 0 hours to my PPL - I was thrown between about 4 instructors (first 2 left for airlines half way through - cant blame them). post PPL - night rating - back and forth between 4 or 5 guys. CPL I was lucky to stick with 1 guy although bookings were tight. Though that's probably to be expected when your training takes close to 4 years to complete (double degree).

It's just not as structured as you might think. It really comes down to the instructors you land - ie why some hate it and some dont mind - although some students hate instructors I've flown with and vice versa. The ones I flew with were good and I believe they did what they could to teach me what they could. No real complaints there. My blame lays in whoever is running the joint.

If I was leaving yr12 now... 95% sure I would not be going back to GFS/Oxford.


rant over:uhoh:

[crazydud2000]

i come for modualr training...I got 4-5 jobs in the past.Jut got another job offer last week.

you don't need to go to these expensive schools.Belive me, at the end, the license is the same.

these schools spend 20% in advertismnt thatYOU pay, then you pay salaries the big manager who drive expensive cars, and have nice houses...YOU pay for that.

[Groundloop]

crazydud2000, you state your location as UK but this thread is about Australia. Do you know enough of the Australian licence/pilot market to make such a comment?

[like_that]

I do not mean to praise OAA in anyway, I started at GFS and witnessed the transfer... there is a light at the end of the tunnel. If you are dedicated you will find your way and eventually to a job. Many of my fellow graduates are now in jobs after coming out during the financial crisis.

The key is persistence and determination. I finished with greater than 20 instructors who I flew with during my time there and all I did was persevere and find any booking I could, it taught me to be flexible and accepting of different methods of flying and was able to pick the best methods from each instructor. I am now instructing myself and thank god was able to do the instructor rating with FEE help.

The cost is too much to be considered fair... and if you have the work ethic you can get your CPL without FEE help, you just have to work. Mind you my parents contributed no more than 10% of my training costs and I footed the bill for the rest, if it is what you want to do you need to sacrifice parts of your life and trust me it makes you a much better person when you work for it now and you will appreciate every opportunity you get. Im 22 and worked like a dog for too long, now im sitting pretty on that extra low GA wage but I could not be happier, I am on my career path and moving forward.

There are good people at OAA and if that is your choice just make sure you are informed as much as possible about all the other options out there. Flying skills can not be blamed on whether or not you can fly with a G1000 or analogue cockpit... I made that transition quiet easily. And you do get analogue experience in a decathalon, if your that pressed go hire a plane at your local aeroclub and play with the 6 pack. As far as I know an AH is an AH and a HSI a DG... don't visual pilots use attitudes for reference anyway? :ok:

[major_tom]

at charles,
everyone has faced issues similar with OAA, however seriously.... quit ur b!tching. No one said this would be an easy course. If u cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
*apologies for sounding rude*

[sam8808]

Completely agree with onezeroonethree and charles321

[charles321]

at charles,
everyone has faced issues similar with OAA, however seriously.... quit ur b!tching. No one said this would be an easy course. If u cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
*apologies for sounding rude* Clearly you have no clue mate, I didn't make any comments to say the course is hard, and clearly im in the wrong because if everyone faces the same issues its okay then?
So when there is a lack maintenance on all the planes its okay then....


I have much respect for what was GFS but now since the school has been taken over by OAA it has been completely ruined imo. I was organised and set to do this course when it was still GFS, i had high hopes and I had the loan organised with my parents and was going to happily pay out of my pocket, I heard nothing but good things about the previous kids who went through GFS, i even had instructors who did all their training there, they had a great setup and great staff. Still most of the staff are, but the opportunity for FEE-Help has led them to take advantage of every kid that wanted to become a pilot but couldn't afford it. The costs are absurd, and now there is simply way too many kids for them to handle.

Yeah Glass is good but i believe kids should be taught to actually fly the plane not flick a switch and let the GPS do the work.

[major_tom]

I have been at OAA for some time now, so my clue is as valid as yours.

> If you dont like GPS... press the big shiny red button and its gone.
>If you dont like wind vector, turn it off.
>If you like analogue then change flight schools, or better yet... go to another flight school every now and then like tyabb and fly their cessnas.
>You also say you didnt like having to pay to be 'familiarized' with the G1000. If you can find any flight school which is willing to let some random take a $400'000 plane solo with no familiarization, then I'd like to see that.

You're not the only one who has to deal with cr@p either. Everyone does. So harden up muffin.

I'm off to do some solo.

[ReverseFlight]

A lot of OAT students actually do the flying part of their training next door to OAT at MFS as that saves them about $100 every hour and that equates to a lot of savings throughtout the entire course. Besides MFS appears to receive good reviews in these forums.

Don't want to start a Cessna vs Piper debate but you can see MFS adding brand new factory aeroplanes to their fleet every season, balking the traditional Aussie trend of much older aircraft.

[major_tom]

ReverseFlight/Like_That is correct. If you have a problem Charles, FIX it. Dont b!tch about it.

I hear MFS has some new pipers with Avidyne system too. Looks pretty sexy.

[mayday_101]

@charles i hav no idea what maintenance issues ur going on about. Yes planes hav broken down but i have never have had a flight cancelled due to an aircraft being u/s. ah the joys of going to big a flight school


my biggest problem though is ur comments on fee-help. Not all of us are blessed with rich parents to give us loans to go become pilots. Fee-help allows people who have the will and the work effect to become pilots and oxford is accomindating to that.

And last time i checked OAA was meant to prepare you for the airlines, most of which use GPS, get with the times man

[charles321]

Don't worry I'm quite happy pressing the big red button as soon as I get my moneys worth from fee help, just move to the otherside of mb and I pay $30 less an hour for a 182t(compared to a 172) that was oxfords. I understand the familiarization costs but do you think $3000 is fair? until i had to argue about it but still cost me about $1500 out of pocket and another $400 from fee-help this was also after i had completed night circuits and two night navs. Even though I flew 172R for my PPL. Fee-help also prevents us flying elsewhere like mfs for example because it's one block of cash that is charged so you do every hour of flying at oxford. You can't use that money elsewhere.

[charles321]

my biggest problem though is ur comments on fee-help. Not all of us are blessed with rich parents to give us loans to go become pilots. Fee-help allows people who have the will and the work effect to become pilots and oxford is accomindating to that.

And last time i checked OAA was meant to prepare you for the airlines, most of which use GPS, get with the times man

I Didn't say anything bad about fee-help buddy, i think it was a good addition to the Higher Education System, but for oxford to max it out for flying costs up to CPL is a complete joke, speak to any St Kevin's students who trained with GFS just before fee-help was introduced and they will tell you they were paying ~$320 an hour, I can understand some markup from that due fuel prices, but the price they currently charge, plus landing fees on top of that is just cruel to kids who would need to use Fee-help.

You think every pilot before you had rich parents? plenty of kids had their parents re mortgage the house to give them a loan or they take a few years off after school and work(e.g the mines, hell you could go to the desalination plant in Victoria where they are offering unskilled labour's around $100K), saving money and enabling them to take a loan from the bank to pay for flying, like you say if you have the will and work effort, you can get a job to pay for flying costs.

Yes I see airlines use GPS but you are not going to go straight into an airline(unless you are very very lucky or in a cadetship), your going to have to do some time in GA until you have enough hours to get close to apply, and everyone doesn't have GPS. Do you believe any other students at other schools who don't have GPS(mainly g1000) are not prepared for an airline. Oxford is simply looked positively upon by airlines due to the fact of their strict SOP's which are quite similar to what most airlines would use today.

[like_that]

The hourly rate is too much. G1000 is non-essential and SOP's are nicely looked upon anywhere you go if you continue to discipline yourself and use them.

Maxing out FEE help is wrong and not essential and the current situation make me feel guilty for tax payers who may never get a return for the governments investment.

[j3pipercub]

my biggest problem though is ur comments on fee-help. Not all of us are blessed with rich parents to give us loans to go become pilots. Fee-help allows people who have the will and the work effect to become pilots and oxford is accomindating to that.

And not all of us who have our licenses had FEE-HELP, we had to WORK to SAVE the money. Wake up to yourselves.

and major tom, good luck with that solo :rolleyes:, make sure you take your ray ban aviators off before you taxi back to the flight line.

[jamesdc10]

Charles, as a first year at Oxford and having done much research on flying schools in the Melbourne vicinity; I have received nothing but professional and quality training from Oxford Aviation Academy Moorabbin. It is obvious that you have some clear grudge with the flying school, you are constantly complaining about training quality, maintenance and administration- time to wake up mate.

An unservicibility on an aircraft does not count as poor maintenance, you will find most aircraft around the world from gliders to Airbus A380s have some unservicibilities at some time. If you are serious about the aviation industry- get used to it!

I have developed a great relationship with the staff at Oxford and have found that if you work with them, they will work with you. Perhaps if you gave them a chance and put some time and effort in you might get results? I don't mean to try insult you or anything but I feel like you might be going too hard on the organisation, they are simply trying to provide the best service they can, and doing a fair job at it too.

If you have the option to go somewhere else, please go ahead, but there is no use in complaining about it- it's not going to change just for you. :ugh:

[sam8808]

Look at that. Someone at oxford has created a new account to defend their non-existent good reputation.

[charles321]

Charles, as a first year at Oxford and having done much research on flying schools in the Melbourne vicinity; I have received nothing but professional and quality training from Oxford Aviation Academy Moorabbin. It is obvious that you have some clear grudge with the flying school, you are constantly complaining about training quality, maintenance and administration- time to wake up mate.

An unservicibility on an aircraft does not count as poor maintenance, you will find most aircraft around the world from gliders to Airbus A380s have some unservicibilities at some time. If you are serious about the aviation industry- get used to it!

I have developed a great relationship with the staff at Oxford and have found that if you work with them, they will work with you. Perhaps if you gave them a chance and put some time and effort in you might get results? I don't mean to try insult you or anything but I feel like you might be going too hard on the organisation, they are simply trying to provide the best service they can, and doing a fair job at it too.

If you have the option to go somewhere else, please go ahead, but there is no use in complaining about it- it's not going to change just for you.

Well done with your research mate(plenty of schools look good on paper), as a first year, i highly doubt you have much to stand on, getting to PPL is not too hard training wise. If you havn't been elsewhere you don't have much to compare it too so you would not really understand where I am coming from. If you would like for me to properly go through my opinions with you, please feel free to pm me and I will talk with you at school.

I have been at oxford for 1.5 years now, and had a PPL to start with, i am still no where near close to sitting my CPL(even with the aid of actual cash from my pockets to get things going) so yeah..... gave them a decent chance in my opinion. Now I am fed up.

[damo1089]

I reckon it's ok. I didnt have 50K just as i didnt have 80k or whatever it costs. Sure some people in it have no clue what they are doing, see it in the VTAC guide and just decide to go for it without much motivation.
Most know it's expensive, its bloody obvious that they max FEEhelp out on purpose and I could probably get a CPLH cheaper than what they charge and would be if I had heaps of cash kicking around.
Sure I could have found a good paying job, made enough for it over a few years and smashed out a CPL in 12 months. But I can guarantee I would not have had anywhere near as much fun as what I am now having chosen the course with the people i've met.



PS nevermind answering the first post, I was more of a child then :)

[major_tom]

...zzz...zzz.zz...zzz :rolleyes:

[jamesdc10]

Well said newagebird, cant wait to finish my course, am hoping that there is a possibility of getting an instructing job at oxford, the king air is sexy.

[MtIsaFlyer42]

Charles .... a. everyone knows who you are; b. there are 100's of Australian pilots who have trained through GFS/Oxford .... so I suggest you watch what you say; c. and if that's your attitude, then bugga off to png or some where .... and start acting like a pilot, cause at this rate you don't deserve to get a job in the industry, if all you do is complain son!!

[newagebird]

did that cfi know what you write about the school mate? Im guessing u spoke to him/her very nicely about your problems without mentioning anything that would make you look bad.
looks to me like ur just winding us up anyway so i wont bother with ur sort.

thanks mayday, big statement but appreciated all the same.

newagebird

[major_tom]

You're as sharp as a bowling ball aren't you Charles? Obviously you've got something figured out the rest of us don't. You wrote a fairly nice essay on the previous page, a fair effort by an equally cunning linguist who has the smarts to use his own name in his username. Perhaps you can use it as part of your 10'000 word essay next year? But then again you may have already dropped out by then.

Go ahead and have your little fit, just dont blame anyone if you dont get a job at OAA. Your ass is already grass. :ok:

[Suchislife10]

The smug of Oxford students really shines here :D. You guys have to realise that OAA is not on top the world and therefore because you train there you are superior to everyone else at Moorabbin, if you have this attitude you will not go far in GA at all or have many friends outside of OAA.

I trained there for a small period of time before moving elsewhere and witnessed the change from GFS to OAA at Moorabbin and it has been disgraceful. I rated GFS in the top 3 at Moorabbin, but since it became OAA things have really gone downhill. The rates they charge for planes is disgusting(rumour is that is going to go to $420 for a 172S next year) which is obvious given that people are advising that you should go next door to MFS to gain some hours. The things that are happening at OAA now should not be happening e.g. hitting on some of the female students by instructors, and the apparent "sleeping" with students. Even one instructor attempting to pickup a female cadet otherwise he could make her look bad. Do you guys think this happens at other schools?

Oxford has really gone downhill and now with some arrogance being shown here by some students shows it is now worse than it was with some students when it was GFS.

Most of you need to wake up to reality, if you think you are going to get a job after your stint at OAA, good luck to you. You guys talk about the hundreds of students that go through the school, why are there not hundreds of instructors then? You have a very small chance of being offered a job with OAA(unless airlines open there doors and people in GA and they can move into the airline industry, but that is doubtful given latest attempt at outsourcing by Jetstar), yes most schools will say there is a high possibility of you getting a job after your instructor rating at their school, but they actually just want your money and will appologise at the end when they can't but its not the kind of thing you can then ask for a refund.

and mayday_101, your going to defend someone's complaints about your school by putting down another training school. That's just hypocritical my friend :rolleyes:.

[major_tom]

Suchislife10 the point you make is more than valid. But...I dont think many of us really think OAA is 'on top of the world', nor do we think we will 'get a job after the course'. All we are saying is for Charles to simply shut up. There is nothing wrong with any of the other schools (i myself have done a bit here and there at other places too). OAA has problems just like any other school. But there really is no point for people like charles, sam8808, etc to bitch and give a full running commentary.

This topic started off pretty much asking what are the 'ups n downs' for OAA. Rather than running off on a wild tangent a normal answer could have been:
"OAA is expensive. And bookings can be sometimes difficult due to the large number of students. However the aircraft are nice and the airport is in a good location".
Fairly simple and civilized answer without bad mouthing anyone. :ouch:

[Suchislife10]

Well yes, but charles321 is simply trying to help others and make sure they do not go through the issues he has been through. He is about 80% correct in his comments on the school though. But I believe it is more managements fault and the way the course is set up(i.e expecting students to be capable in minimum hours) not really the instructors fault but it is obvious that same do not care for GA and are simply just waiting for an Airline job. What others have said should be said though, its not fair to let these things happen to students and then just kick dirt over it and say "OAA is expensive. And bookings can be sometimes difficult due to the large number of students. However the aircraft are nice and the airport is in a good location" There are problems with Oxford like all the other schools, but given the money your paying (100K including the fee-help loan fee :ugh:) for a CPL with a single engine IFR, they should not have problems like this.

You can't really say what other people can and can't say about your training school because last time I checked this country has the freedom of speech.

[33amc]

Interesting points being raised here, but obviously, the more people comment, the more people will be able to get their own opinion. For you to slam someone down and tell them to "shut up" because they are voicing their opinion, well, its childish and to be honest, pathetic, not to mention a past instructor attacking a current student. Shows a strong sense of character when you yell at someone on the internet. If you know who the guy is, why don't you take it up with him in person? but i bet you haven't.

Nevertheless, i believe i may have a more diplomatic opinion on the club.

I'm going to give you my experience with OAA. I'm a second year grad student with Swin and did all of my preliminary training with OAA. I had my PPL half way through last year as i had already started flying before starting the course and i tell you what, never have i seen a club more disorganized and unprofessional in my life. I started out at a club up in Shepparton and then moved to OAA and after last year, i decided to kick the bucket and move to another school at Moorabbin and let me tell you.

The difference between a school where you feel as though you are getting your moneys worth and a school that simply lets you run around a field with no direction on how to get to the other side is, well, lets say, more than noticeable. In the time i was at OAA, i had a total of 5 different instructors, even though i was promised that i would have one instructor and only one instructor. 3 were past grads and constantly cut corners with their training and were unprofessional with their attitude of barely enough will be enough...

I couldn't stand the fact that i was often moved to a totally new instructor the day before my flight and found it extremely uncomfortable when i was constantly correcting the instructor. I can not tell you the advantages of having a single instructor and for those that feel comfortable! with rotating instructors, well, you clearly have no idea about you are talking about.

The current school that i am with is yes, smaller, and dramatically cheaper, but it offers 10x the that which OAA did and does. I have had my current instructor since the beginning of the year, and am on my way to having my CPL by the end of the year, hopefully. The atmosphere at the club is more orientated around me as a pilot, and me learning to the best of my ability. The structure around what I want to do and where i want to go is much better, the overall develop of me as a pilot, i believe is, much better than my co-students at OAA.

Simple questions that should be known, easily understood and answered are often not known by the other guys, {and yes, i have compared} all tell me that i made the right decision in getting out early at the end of the semester without having the issues that Charles is having.

My recommendation would for you to look around at other schools that offer a much more specific CPL structure. A school that offers more professional instructors that actually want to see you develop as a pilot, rather than a production line of pilots that barely know their stuff, have the bare minimum hours required and a much nicer learning environment with an instructor that knows where you are up to in your flight training, where you went wrong in your last lesson, where you need to improve and where your strengths and weaknesses are.

CASA sets those minimum hours for a reason. Its not for clubs to take advantage of and actually set a specific amount for this and that. A student should be able to progress to the next stage of his/her training when they are ready, not when they have this amount of hours.

Overall, i was extremely disappointed with the club and would never think about going back to them. I would say that i have experience with a before and after scenario and can only voice my opinion and hope that you take it and don't go with OAA

[like_that]

I never got pushed through on minimum hours... you will not pass your flight test if you do not have the minimum experience or experience.

Just something that was said that got me a bit.

Complain to management if the treatment you are getting is a problem, and what is wrong with a post grad student teaching you, you will some day be a post grad student who may be in the same position. When you get to that stage I hope you realise how much work had to go in to get to that stage.
:O

[empacher48]

Let me get this right - it takes you 3 years to get CPL and MECIR through this FULL TIME course???

Right, I guess someone is making a huge amount of cash from some suckers.

I thought that about 12 months full time for CPL MECIR and ATPL theory would be about normal, maybe stretch to 18 months at a fairly busy sausage factory (I mean training institution).

Mind you it did take me 12 months to go from PPL to CPL, but I was working full time to pay for the flying I did a day a week.

[gcpilot]

i know its a tad off topic,

but how much are you guys paying for the whole flying training syllabus (ab-initio through to MECIR) that go to swinburne uni and use OAA for flight training?

[ReverseFlight]

I heard that there is a chance to do the flight training at MFS rather than Oxford Academy through the Swineburne Aviation bachelor course. Can anyone confirm this?
z-unit747, please read my post #17 of this thread:

A lot of OAT students actually do the flying part of their training next door to OAT at MFS as that saves them about $100 every hour and that equates to a lot of savings throughtout the entire course. Besides MFS appears to receive good reviews in these forums.

Don't want to start a Cessna vs Piper debate but you can see MFS adding brand new factory aeroplanes to their fleet every season, balking the traditional Aussie trend of much older aircraft.

I can't advise you about fee-help though. Any offers from fellow Ppruners ?

[damo1089]

You cant use fee help anywhere else, thats why oxford charge so much. As soon as another uni gets in on the action at a different flying school then there will be competition.
You have to be enrolled in some kind of university subject to get fee help. Swinburne gets the money from the government and sends it to Oxford because they work together as one body.
If a flying school applied for their own education institution certificate thingy and offered a Diploma of piloting or something similar then they could get a piece of the pie all by themselves. I'm assuming it is easier said than done though.
From nothing to cpl with aeros, night and CIR is something like 81k.

[ReverseFlight]

According to MFS's website, they do have Certificates and Diplomas (click on the relevant links for details):
Flight Training Options Available (http://www.mfs.com.au/component/content/article/154)
Why don't you contact them and ask about Fee-help. Good luck.

[charles321]

Don't give up yet man, word on the wire is that schools around Moorabbin are starting to get into gear and things are happening, enabling them to offer Fee-help, it just requires time, planning and paperwork, but when this happens, it should push Oxford over or make them seriously review there pricing. The schools around Moorabbin are essentially "schools" due to the nature of accepting international students, they just have to change things around and it will be possible for them to offer Fee-Help to local students. Also mate you need to look into Oasis at Moorabbin, they offer Fee-Help Currently but its a very small school which just cross hires aircraft.

But you need to see the downside and positive side in this. This will mean that student numbers will be increasing, in turn meaning that it will be harder to get a job when you can due to the amount of students applying so maybe don't wait it out. The positive is that people who could not previously afford this but if it truly is your dream, get a job! like most people did that could not afford it, work in the mines or something for a year and you will have enough money to do what you want to do.

and gcpilot, it costs over $100K+(85K(plus more out of your pocket) to oxford and 20% fee for using fee-help). Plus books(about $1000per year) etc and landing fees(which should be included) and fuel over $1.50per litre(should be included with exception to drum fuel), and IFR fees($1200).

[dragolf]

any one employed after completing training at oxford aviation academy,OXFOR.I will start my training next year as i am not a son of big shot man and as i am indian what are the chances of me getting job because i am also selling one of my three flats and getting huge loan from bank i i wont get a job i would be severely ruined in life please reply evryone.....good advice is always appreciable

[dragolf]

please advice me abt jobs that i would get after completing my training from OAA,Oxford as i am indian