Kiwijet

[hot tuna]

Latest media release



October 27, 2008 Christchurch, New Zealand: The Kiwijet Airline Company will resume its development after a five month hiatus. We have decided that the best course for the company is one of caution, since the global economic credit crisis will make the development of any business especially an airline a great challenge over the next two years. In order to minimize the impact to our investors we will focus on launching Kiwijet first as a cargo only airline. Now planning to operate two British Aerospace BAe 146-300 QT’s (Quiet Trader) on domestic small package, and post services initially in the second quarter of 2009. Then moving onto passenger operations in the fourth quarter of 2009

[mattyj]

Operating the Whisper Jet..can't fail then:E

Has anyone told NZ post that they will be changing their contract in 09..or are they after Mainfreight business?

[DeltaT]

Yeah, interesting, is there any spare freight going in the country?
Can the 146 get into smaller airports?

[horserun]

Will believe it when I see it:rolleyes:

[remoak]

Funny how the people who say "believe it when I see it" are usually the first to send their CVs in... :E

And funny how those who bag the 146 usually don't know what they are talking about. A relatively modern jet, that can take palletised cargo or cargons, vs a bunch of decrepit old turboprops... even the 146 is more fuel-efficient than F27s and Convairs. The 146 also has the distinct advantage of being able to operate into noise-sensitive airports. And it can operate effectively out of 1200m runways.

Maybe it's about time for a bit of a shakeup in the NZ freight scene... :ok:

[topend3]

dreamers...

[shazza26]

NJS operate 146 Freighters into ADL and SYD @ night for AAE in Oz and both these airports have curfews. Not a bad choice of plane for a quite operation.

[DeltaT]

And funny how those who bag the 146 usually don't know

funny how people misinterpret questions instantly with negative connotations

[waren9]

Even assuming they have got work lined up, of all the 146's that might be lying aroung are there any worth having?

I would have thought if there are any half decent airframes still out there, they would already be in service. Especially if you want to cart pax around.

Surely the investors realise that in the next 18 months there could be up to 5 operators screwing each other for market share in NZ (AirNZ, Pac Blue, QantasNZ, Jet* and KiwiJet?)

Dear oh dear oh dear...............

[remoak]

Plenty of good airframes in Europe, many only recently refurbished. Also a few brand new QT conversions becoming available.

No reason why they shouldn't prosper if they forge the right alliances and don't get tempted to go head-to-head on trunk routes.

History has shown that niche operators who operate in a smart way can prosper, even in NZ.

[Cpt Link Hog]

Total Dreamers....Air Freight/Freight Ways and Air work/NZ Post (F27's and the QC) all own there own ships and if and when they do decide to change type it won't be sub contracting the work out, they will simply change type with existing crew.
There is plenty of Freight capaticy ie QF 767 freighter AA-CH 5 nights that is a ferry flight which takes any over flow from the main freight carriers.
If one day there is a need for extra freight capitacy the main players will just build it into there routes or run extra flights no problem; in fact they do it every Christmas season....
Sorry guys not going to happen total load of S%#!

[Skystar320]

A Qantas 767 Freighter? :eek::eek::eek:

That's a new one..... Are you from the press?

[lowerlobe]

Originally posted by Skystar 320
A Qantas 767 Freighter?
That's a new one
Well,that's only to people who don't know what's going on Skystar.QF has been running 767's with no pax as a psuedo freighter for some time.

Perhaps you should stick to your police pushbike or is it a Fire engine these days????

[remoak]

Total Dreamers....

Pretty much what everone said when Stelios started Easyjet, or when O'Leary started/re-started Ryanair...

Both of them created niche markets that were so profitable they are now regarded as mainstream. The idea that you can't do something similar in the NZ freight market is the typically blinkered thinking that you get down here. The freight market is ripe for overhaul.

[waren9]

Maybe youre right mate.

I take your point about Ryanair and Easyjet, however, its hardly apples with apples in this case. Those guys have no limit to the size of the market they operate in. The cheaper the fares, the bigger it gets. Freight operators in NZ have absolutely no control whatsoever as to the size of their market. There are only so many parcels to cart regardless of how cheaply they may be able to do it.

When the aeroplane operator itself is in effect a subcontractor and therefore but one link in the supplier chain, and has won that work through a competitive tender process, its hard to see where another new operator will easily gain a competitive advantage.

Its not as if they're tearing up and down the country in brand new aircraft that are half full. And I'm sure that if you asked anyone involved they certainly wont be paying more than market rates to staff to get the job done.

I'm sure that if you looked hard enough anywhere, there are efficiencies to be had, but unless you're going to go in big and hard I can really only see it going one way.

[remoak]

The point about Ryanair in particular is they started with a very small aircraft in a very tight local market. They very nearly went to the wall, but a combination of animal cunning and creating a market for themselves saw them flourish.

The internal NZ freight market might be limited, but the international market is not and the demand for freight services is rising rapidly as internet shopping continues to flourish. I don't see anywhere in Kiwijet's announcement that they are limiting themselves to AKL-CHC or whatever. The 146 can reach across the Tasman, if it has the aux fuel tanks fitted. That certainly widens the possibilities somewhat.

If they manage to create their own market and revolutionise the industry a little, they could easily flourish. Airwork doesn't own the Air Post contract, a little bit of competition may well change the landscape.

Anyway - no doubt we shall see in due course!

[roamingwolf]

Skystar
Whats this about a pushbike and now a fire engine?

[devolved]

come on guys, lets get real for a second before getting into the usual crew room banter of "ripping into the new guy". I thought only students did that?. Im not businesslike minded, however it would be daft to say kiwijet's management and investors havent done a feasibility study on operating the 146 in NZ along with the market for freight and pax ops. From what i can gather from a quick google search, kiwijet would of "at the very least" been observing the industry for 2 years now (or longer, who knows?). Im rooting for these guys, or any new operator for that matter :ok:. Kinda get the impression NZ is just for training, as they seem to be dominating the airspace of late.

As for a 76 kicking about, i'd say a 146 can get into "just a few" more fields.

Anyone know how much & how long it takes to drive a truck load of freight from CH to AA?

Or we can get back into slamming someone who may be investing millions into the market generating new jobs & reducing the costs to the public :D Funny, just heard on the radio yesterday NZ is considered one of the safer places in the world to invest. Interesting times ahead.

[remoak]

Exactly. Nobody just throws away tens of millions of dollars on a whim. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they had already done deals for a substantial share of the market. Any investor with half a brain would want to see a very detailed business plan that had a high chance of succeeding.

The great NZ clobbering shop and all the armchair wannabes can scoff all they want, but the fact is that if Kiwijet succeed, at least twelve new flight deck jobs will be added and whatever you might think of the 146, it is far more fun to fly than Dash 8s and Beech 1900s (and F27s and Convairs for that matter).

I'm sure all the scoffers have already sent their CVs in... :rolleyes:

[27/09]

Hmmm only a five month hiatus eh? These guys have no credibility. I have no problem with someone having a go at a new venture but everything from them so far suggests just a lot of hot air.

Last we heard of them was over 12 months ago here, Scoop: Kiwijet Airline Announces Planned Changes (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU0709/S00196.htm) when they we revising the sort of aircraft they were going to operate shortly after that press release. Just to refresh your memories take a look at this link and the other threads that were on here at that time.

http://www.pprune.org/d-g-reporting-points/274548-kiwijet-net.html
http://www.pprune.org/d-g-reporting-points/285572-kiwijet-alive-well-2.html

Tongue in cheek in one of thes threads I joked that the next choice of aircraft would be the 146.

[remoak]

but everything from them so far suggests just a lot of hot air.In fact, it suggests the complete opposite. What it actually suggests is a careful analysis of both the world and local economies, the likely impact on a change of NZ government on the regulatory environment here, and a spot-on analysis of oil price movements.

Only a fool rushes in when conditions are clearly not right, and only a fool perseveres with a single plan of action in the face of an obvious need for revision, given world events.

So far, Kiwijet have acted very sensibly. Credibility is ACTUALLY all about making the right decisions at the right time.

[Cool banana]

Sound like there are some very delusional people out there in Kiwi Land, But seeing is believing , when I see a real Kiwijet aircraft the I was start believing…..

Until then keep living the dream!!!

[waren9]

I was not scoffing at all remoak. :ouch:

Good luck to anyone who can grow a market and create jobs for the lads. The next 5 years could well prove you and them right. No harm in that.

You seem to have a particular interest in this thread, perhaps you know a bit more. Are you able to enlighten as to how they will grow the market and not get work by undercutting on price?

As for the pax/freight combo, I hope they are able to learn from the Robert Inglis undercutting experiment. Not sure how much of his own fortune it cost him but he ended up costing a lot of other people a lot of money. Perhaps this may be a reason in part for some of the cynicism shown by other posters on this thread?

[27/09]

remoak

You are a tad touchy aren't you?

From the "Scoop" article

We are planning to keep the base of operations as is in Christchurch with an initial fleet of 4 aircraft serving the cities of Auckland, Christchurch, Hamilton, Invercargill, Nelson and Palmerston North on daily basis from late November 2008. (Estimated)

This never got close to happening.

As a result of the change we have restructured our capital investment requirement to 35 Million US dollars. Our equity group has required due diligence be complete no later than December 01, 2007 at that time we will confirm our capitalization to the public.

Did they ever confirm the capitalisation?

A follow on media release will be forthcoming within the next 2 weeks to showcase the AVRO RJ-100 (ARJ) to the media.

I don't recall this showcase ever happening.

All words and no action or visible action, hence the hot air comment

It's over a year later and now we hear something new.

[1279shp]

You prob got sent this too!

AirDisaster.Com: Accident Photo: Mesaba Avro RJ85 N528XJ (http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/n528xj/photo.shtml)

Almost urban legend the story behind it.;)

<>

The 146/RJ is a great machine, look at the way you can treat 'em!:ok:

YouTube - Very bumpy landing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5prz1Ae5QM)

[remoak]

27/09

If you had been reading the media releases, you would know the answer to all the points you have raised. All quite sensible and rational decisions when you understand the context. I only get them second-hand from a friend in the US, but they appear to be quite widely circulated.

Starting an airline is an incredibly complex and risky business, and most startups, including the one I currently work for, end up going in directions that only vaguely resemble the original plan. We were lucky in that we prospered and grew, but what we are currently doing has no similarity at all to what we intended to do when we started out.

Time will tell.

[nike]

gidday remoak,

you involved directly with kiwijet?

[c100driver]

Kiwijet is looking to take to the air, thanks to significant fall in oil prices making the budget airline economically viable.

Chief executive Patrick Weil told the National Business Review the Kiwijet concept was looking to fly again.
Oil prices today dropped below $US63 ($NZ117) a barrel, down nearly 60 percent from a record $US147 a barrel in July.
Some analysts say a fall to $US50 a barrel is possible in the short term.
Mr Weil told the business newspaper that as the oil price fell and the availability of aircraft increased, Kiwijet felt it could proceed cautiously.
By launching the airline Kiwijet as a cargo operator it could reduce the initial start-up costs and avoid the expected downturn in tourism brought on by the global credit crisis, he said.
Kiwijet will operate two BAE 146-300 QT aircraft, which can fly into 26 New Zealand airports without curfew limitations due to noise.
It has predicted that it will begin hiring 46 staff early in 2009.
NZPA


Come to think of it I cannot think of 26 airports in New Zealand that are capable of handling Part 121 jet operations?

[tred]

any runway 1200m or greater (according to the performance figures I found) so that should easily give you 26!!

[c100driver]

Best you read Part 121 requirements then, it is more than just runway length for ATO.