Kingfisher sinking like the Titanic

[Kingfisher320]

Dubai Aerospace Enterprise acquired three Kingfisher Airlines A330-200s delivered this year in a sale/leaseback transaction....BRAVO :D

Last month they couldn't even pay there employees on time...:sad:where is all the Mallya money everyone keep talking about:confused:? Its all smoking mirrows. No rupees in bank by the 7TH....yeaaa..you will see those planes fly allright:oh:.

They fired a capt...then they try to re-hire the same Capt. back after a week......The numbers are coming in...People are leaving, including Indian Capt's....Sit back relax and enjoy the ride:ok:.

[Rotorhead1026]

"hehehe" indeed.


I hope you'll pardon me if I say I don't think this is funny. Seeing a rich playboy getting his comeuppance is one thing - when only he is affected. His company, however, consists of real people with real problems and dreams. I've been in a similar situation and it's not fun. :* For their sake I hope it turns around somehow, even if they're a competitor.


smoking mirrows


The term is "smoke and mirrors" ...

[sky jet]

Amen to that. The only people who gloat about this kind of news are those who have not lived through it once or twice. (Or thrice or more in some cases) Some seem to think that if just one airline in India would fail all the rest would be on wine and roses. If the airline industry in the US is any indication, there will always be someone with more ego and money than brains who will take a look and think they can start an airline and fill the supposed void left in the marketplace by a failure. This is exactly the kind of time when that happens too. Lots of surplus aircraft that can be had cheap, and lots of desperate unemployed airline people on the street. If any airline does not make it you can bet that there will be one or two that try to start. Hell, the Deccan guy was making rumblings in the press 2 weeks ago that he might like to get back in the game. Instead of getting giddy over rumors of someones problems lets hope for a general improvement in the whole economy of the world. In a good economy there is MORE than enough buisness in India for all of the players, and maybe even a few more.

Sky Jet

[jet_737ng]

Jet also gave its salary a day late .. it was due to a bank holiday on the day before..KF in trouble but so is every body else ..:ugh: I just hope no-one sinks .dont want see any one jobless including people i dont like... KF management is bad but the next door guy is just marginally better

[Nevrekar]

Many of us have been through several downturns elsewhere and it is no fun at all. An airline that has to shut down or layoff affects the lives of many individuals. Some of these individuals do not have the luxury of being able to go elsewhere and have to thus face severe hardships. Just ask the guys at the legacy carriers in the U.S. who for many years never thought their jobs and livelihood would be in danger.

As far as payroll Spicejet is still as always EARLY on the pay:ok::D
I got paid sometime in the past 48 hrs.

[Oceanic]

Kingfisher, you're an idiot to gloat at others misfortune. I hope you get your comeuppance for being such a pr**k.

[Holycow]

Kingfisher, the hehehe was not nice.
But keep writing, seems you have good sources, as one saying says: lucky are those who are prepared

[asvsu]

Kingfisher 320..

As Rotorhead1026 said..feel for the people who r there in KFA ..with lots of dreams...

I feel really pity for your near and dears..your will spoil. everyone.where ever you go..plz..change your attitude..if you dont like a company just leave it..dont try to keep throwing ****....i read all ur messages ..you are gonna settle in a new job it seems..concentrate in that instead of ..xxxx..the same old..xxxx_____:mad:

[Boeing7xx]

Kingfisher320, the 'hehehe' is in poor taste. I'm sure we've all been through tough times within the organizations we've worked for. Having someone make a mockery of the difficulties sure pinches somewhere. Not being over-sensitive on the issue but some compassion might be a good thing. I'm sure you wouldn't want to be in those shoes.

[condorbaaz]

Salary delayed in Kingfisher for first time..

Due to

Bank Holiday 30 sep
festival 1 oct
national Holiday 2 oct
WORKING FRIDAY 3 Oct Too much load on bank staff due to holidays etc
Sat 4
Sun 5
Salary paid Sixth...

As explained to my friend in the company

[av8r76]

I'm sure 320 regrets that unfortunate quote. It seems like he/she has been treated unfairly/poorly by KF but dude, you need to look beyond your air conditioned house, car and cockpit and realise the hard work and toiling ground and other support staff endure with uncertain futures and few alternatives to employment within and outside of the industry.

Plenty of people who live paycheck to paycheck and depend on this airline's employment to support themselves and their families. Like a significant portion of the industry I too have suffered through a bankruptcy and I tell you my friend it is not pretty.

good luck with your future employer(s).

[Left Wing]

most of the quality staff will jump to middle east airlines...same goes for crew...

[Doodles]

It strikes me that in addition to a massive fall off in local traffic demand (affecting all local airlines) there is a severe currency issue too. KFA has ordered so many aircraft, all of which required pre delivery payments in USD. Then they have to pay the leases and maintenance coverage on that fleet, again all in USD.

Maybe they should have waited for the international services to start, establish, and produce some cash (USD), before comitting to so many large aircraft.

All the "red" tails lining up outside the factory is not good for anyone and certainly no cause to gloat or joke.

The government must relax some of the local tax rules to enable KFA and Jet to work out a solution. For their part, KFA and Jet have to re-organise themselves and fast. The banks will be very scared now. This is no time for waiting, delaying or dare I say, egos.

Good luck

[B772]

Is it true the Kingfisher owner does not have a strong aviation background and was 'conned' by John Leahy the Airbus conartist to order all the Airbus aircraft including the executive jet. How long will it be before the A380 order is cancelled.

[arka]

Yaeh!I got info from my friends salary for october are delaying????How many days????Hwo nows!!!Re-hiring captans back!!!???I dont think so!!Still mooore lay-offs are expecting!Titanik is sinking very sure!!:{

[getsetgo]

i think with sale of 330"s more cash flow will be in kingfisher.
its so easy for kingfisher to get cash flow in to this venture.
any way no point getting big a/c when there are no passengers.

well kingfisher320 jumped for reasons not clear(suffocated, strangled, kicked?)
may be kicked looking at his acts.
give him time to breath.
his emotions are but natural.

he should have jumped to push his ship to save the airline,and jobs.
matter of time when the things improve with fuel price and passengers.

[Holycow]

Looks like Kingfisher will lose some more aircraft :ugh:

Kingfisher defaults on aircraft lease payment- Airlines / Aviation-Transportation-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News_By_Industry/Transportation/Kingfisher_defaults_on_aircraft_lease_payment/articleshow/3674573.cms)

[Capt.Bee]

"The official, however, admitted that Kingfisher had some disputes with GECAS on the terms of return of the aircraft and accused the US company of being “unreasonable.” Kingfisher Airlines declined to give details of the dispute on the ground that it was before the court. “GE treats its business and customer discussions with high confidentiality and is unable to disclose any details,” a GECAS spokesperson said."
It looks like the guys from GECAS have to start learning business the indian way.

[leftseatview]

The dispute appears to be over the penalty clause for returning the A/c earlier than the originally planned lease period,due excess capacity now.
The lease company just wants its pound of flesh,and couldnt be bothered about the global downturn.
This is just the kind of attitude which has led to the present global economic crisis in the first place.

[Rotorhead1026]

kind of attitude which has led to the present global economic crisis in the first place


In what sense? It started with the government forcing banks to loan money to bad risks (and was propelled by a lot of greed and stupidity by all hands downline).

Nobody forced Mallya to take those jets. If he signed an agreement to pay a penalty for an early return, he should pay it. Period. He's got the money. NOT PAYING UP is at the heart of this global financial "issue" - albeit mostly by people who don't have the resources to do so. Ol' Vijay has the resources. That stated, with friends in government he might get away with this - but he'll pay a price later.

[Followup - the last blog I read said this is a straight repo case, but I don't know for sure]

:mad: off a leasing company is foolish, really. As long as they have other "good" customers you'll get nothing but terrible terms for years and be at a competitive disadvantage. My old company actually dissed BOEING and took it in the shorts bigtime.

Mallya had better start minding the store. If he already is, he better step aside and get somebody who knows the job. THAT'S at the heart of KINGFISHER'S problems! Good luck to the employees, though - I hope this gets resolved satisfactorily - somehow. :)

[leftseatview]

This situation for the airlines, started with the price of fuel going thru the roof.That was something VJ or Goyal or anyone else could not have anticipated when they leased the A/C.
Aiming to deliver a world class product,when the only other local offering is Air India(and creating new jobs) is a commendable entrepenural endeavor.
A rigid stand based on ink on paper,and removed from emerging ground realities is something lease companies/financial institutions could do well to reconsider.
Chartiy is not expected,but if they expect to reap the rewards when the aviation industry booms,they should also consider a drop in the profits to allow the goose that lays the golden eggs to survive.

[Horatio]

LSV, sorry, but my heart doesn't bleed for these "entrepreneurs". Regardless of the circumstances, whether it be good or bad times, if you do business with that country or those people you will get burned. It happens all the time and has done so for as long as I can remember.

It doesn't matter whether it is Government backed or private enterprise, you will get shafted. Better to make sure that any contract is under jurisdiction of a country outside India, but even then you will have to fight for your rights.

GECAS are not virgins in this game and you can rest assured that they will have water tight contracts in place, but will still have to fight to get their money or aircraft back. The Government will make it as difficult as possible but will not be able to stop justice being served.

The oil price and financial conditions have put many out of business in recent times, so why should any sentiment be awarded to these people?

[InitRef]

Mallya just fired the team principal and the chief technical officer of his F1 team.. Now the good Dr will be the fulltime head of his F1 team while his airline can't pay its bills on time :ooh:

[Schumi - Red Baron]

Bangalore: Kingfisher Airlines will now have to pay upfront to buy aviation turbine fuel from oil companies to operate its regular scheduled flights.This follows the oil companies insisting on the new payment method, ‘cash & carry’ for the airline as it has failed to clear its dues.
An airline official told Business Line that even though some of the oil companies had threatened to stop supply of aviation turbine fuel to Kingfisher Airlines from today onwards, its operations remain unaffected and that it was sticking to all its schedules.
While oil industry sources maintained that the airline owes over Rs 1,000 crore in dues to the oil companies, the official who did not wish to be named, said it was only half of that amount. ATF constitutes about 50 per cent of the total operational cost of an airline.
The official said that the airline will abide by the directives of the Government with regard to settling of ATF dues with the oil companies. He said the airline was currently holding talks with Government officials on the issue of dues to oil companies.
Sources in the oil industry said that with Kingfisher Airlines agreeing to the ‘cash & carry’ mode, oil marketing companies will not carry out any immediate action against the airline, though they will continue to seek ways to get the dues from the airline.
The official from the airline pointed out that they have received a letter from the oil marketing companies (OMCs) asking for payment of interest on outstanding dues and bank guarantee. “A joint meeting of all stakeholders had been facilitated by the Government on October 22, 2008 where the representatives of the OMCs, airline chiefs and the Minister for Civil Aviation and the Minister for Petroleum and Natural Gas were present too. The minutes of this meeting do not make any reference to any of these two points (interest & bank guarantee) made by the OMCs in their latest letter, nor is there any record of this ever having been discussed or agreed to at that meeting. We have, therefore, taken this up with the Government and we will fully abide by any directions that the Government may give in this regard.”
Sources in the oil industry said that Jet Airways, Kingfisher Airlines and the National Aviation Company of India owe nearly Rs 4,000 crore in dues to the OMCs for supply of aviation turbine fuel.
The Government had earlier allowed a credit of 60 days and later extended it by another 30 days in October, 2008 after some of the airlines had expressed their inability to retain their existing staff because of soaring ATF prices at the time leading to huge losses for these airlines.
On October 22, 2008, the airlines were allowed to pay the total outstanding dues of Rs 1,500 crore in six monthly instalments by March 31, 2009. The OMCs had also agreed to revise ATF prices every fortnight instead of every month to pass on the benefit of falling ATF prices to the airlines

[pilot_007_2001]

No one knows what is going inside Kingfisher.
Everyone including the flight crew and ground support staff are feeling very insecure about their jobs.
Just hoping the airline continous and its operations gets more streamlined.

[condorbaaz]

People promoted and company downsized.
Typical posturing before selling out.

Refer:Kingfisher Airlines rejigs management; elevates 21 officials -India Business-Business-The Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Business/India-Business/Kingfisher-Airlines-rejigs-management-elevates-21-officials-/articleshow/4170449.cms)

[Sky Dancer]

I'd like to meet the joker or jokers who are planning to buy into an airline like KF.....it would be an idiotic move to buy an airline run by an idiot...:ok:

[Schumi - Red Baron]

I think that there would be a bigger (or similar) idiot like mallya......he brought air deccan:eek:..... Who on earth does that to himself.....:ugh:

[rubik101]

Kingfisher 320 you are a miserable specimin of humanity. Gloating at others misfortune is a sign of weakness and ignorance. One day, when you are working for a company in trouble, I hope you remember how you laughed at others who find themselves in the unhappy situation you are in.
Perhaps you would have the decency to alter the title of your miserable thread?

[Flaperon777]

I would give Mallya,90 days,tops 180 to either sell out(god knows to who),and/or declare bankruptcy.Typical reminder of a certain East West Airlines back in mid 90's and Damania Airways(same time).BOTH premium carriers of their times and both had had similar troubles and dues(such as ATF etc) just before closure!
Best part was that 3 days before ALL ops ceased,not a soul (even in managment)had even the slightest inkling of the doom that lay ahead.And even the then owners(a bunch of mafia goons and another,a master of shutdown) would come out with regular press appearances and fashion shows etc,claiming that all was well,whilst actually ALL WAS IN THE WELL!
VJM seems to be heading down the same exact cobbled but well trod pathway.....
He is after all just a buisnessman,and what do they do when buisness gets bad? Close the buisness....:(
Let the good times roll....!

[Sky Dancer]

Couldn't agree with you more.......:ok:

[merlinxx]

Maybe now he'll get a hair cut:ok:

[bad_attitude]

i don't think he'll have money left for a hair cut! :ok:

[HAWK21M]

Gradual expansion is the key......
regds
MEL

[boeingdream787]

Maybe he'll have to GIVE haircuts...!!!
After his airline goes down the cellar.Taking his alcohol buisness AND alcoholic friends down with him.Surely wont have any money left for a haircut.And to think he was trying to become another Richard Branson.Wish his father was alive......may god bless his soul...:(

[saperaa]

Maybe he'll have to GIVE haircuts...!!!
After his airline goes down the cellar.

this VJM gave job to many.
but most at top have no hair ...saving day to day cost.
so VJM saves 50 rs for every body at top, each hair cut.
thats the price of one bottle of beer.
VJM will sell alcohal all arround the world,but
CUT some baldies to see airline some where...
not parked at the remotest location as dues are not paid....
same location of a/c"s as it was in 1990 with damania/east west .
i respect VJM for opening so much jobs...but his choices..
still some time, but now
good luck to all
and VJM

[flyingspur]

some good posts here, and some of you guys seem to know 'VJM' guess some of you known him well or have seen his VJM crest? He is a pompous ass.

Started as a budget airline then morphed into full service at budget fares, then bought Air Deccan foolishly, huge accumulated losses with all the mindless expansion and huge personal expenses. All his personal jets bills are also being paid for by KFA no doubt.

VJM is clearly going to drag a lot of people down when the airline goes belly up. Sad. He will most probably get away having stashed away his money and assets in private trusts like the Golden Eagle Trust in Switzerland!

[flyingspur]

Vijay Mallya now tries to be the king of bad times (http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/vijay-mallya-now-tries-to-bekingbad-times/01/12/350820/)

[flyingspur]

It seems Vijay Mallya (VM) has taken on huge debt to fulfill his expansion plans. His Rs. 6900 crore debt story is as follows:
(a) Investment holding company of United Breweries Holdings (UBHL) has been used 81% of it stake in United Spirits (USL) as collateral to raise money for loss making Kingfisher Airlines.
(b) 27.8% of VM’s stake in UBHL has been used as collateral for loans for various purposes including KingFisher Airlines.
(c) USL has also pledged 17.2% of its shares to acquire Shaw Wallace and Whyte and Macay.
(d) Kingfisher Airlines has also used corporate guarantee to fund acquisition of Deccan Aviation.
(e) The pledges and corporate guarantees account for 44% of Uinted Spirits, VM’s flagship company.
According to VM’s statements, it seems that he is the only person with logic and that nobody should fear as these guarantees and pledges are top-up securities. I think the investors should think twice before investing in his companies because with share prices falling, VM maybe asked to give more top-up securities. Also, do we still know the complete story? I doubt it. For instance, what are the credit obligations of Kingfisher Airlines. At least, I know that he owes money to Pratt & Whitney, Rs. 1000 crores to oil companies and over Rs. 200 crores to Airport Authority of India. One also needs to find out if he is paying the vendors of his various companies in time.
Whenever you extend yourself beyond your means, you will end up into trouble. To get out of trouble you will start manipulating something or the other leading to corporate fraud. Once you have almost most of your assets on the line, then the temptation to do wrong also increases.
Fortunately for VM and USL stockholders, the oil prices came down substantially and improved the cash flows of Kingfisher Airlines. Also, VM used his influence to get certain benefits which eased the pressure on VM’s cash flows.
You know in such situations, the corporate honchos could be transferring money from one firm to another as inter-corporate loans. I feel that the interest of shareholders of companies from where funds are being transferred are also put at risk. I don’t know much about the regulations related to intercorporate loans but this is something that the government should look into.
I have stated in one of my posts that newspapers, especially business newspapers, have the obligation to its readers to analyze a particular issue a little bit in more detail and ask intelligent questions. Newspapers like The Economic Times was going ga ga over all these foreign acquisitions by Tatas, UB and others without asking where the money was going to come from. They have the ability to do indepth analysis but don’t. Similarly, all these newspapers have been going crazy about reporting the various new ventures and retail formats of Biyani without asking where the money is going to come from and also what happened to the ventures and retail formats announced earlier. I have been raising this question for quite sometime on my blog. Even in Satyam’s case, journalists should have asked where the money is coming from to purchase such a large land bank but nobody did?
We have heard the phrase, “Think before you leap.” Well, this is very appropriate if you are thinking of investing in Vijay Mallya’s ventures as of right now. And if I was running a business newspaper or its editor, I would keep an eye on Vijay Mallya’s company and maybe even launch a serious investigation to find out the financial situation of all his companies.
Avinash Narula

[Schumi - Red Baron]

I think that when it ends it would not be pretty for KF & Mallya...

I am being told that Heineken NV (which holds 38% of UB group, Mallya 37.5%) have taken all their money from KFA back and Mallya has pumped in his personal money in the airline... And thats the reason they were unable to pay some of their dues on time...:uhoh:


Just hope that the airlines does well and stays afloat for the sake of hundreds of people working there...

[flyingspur]

Vijay Mallya does not have his own money to invest, majority is debt. Because he has been spending huge amounts of money on himself since he took over from his father. To his luck the Indian liquor grew rapidly and the cash flows kept him going. Most of his assets are pledged. The man lacks any kind of financial discipline and so does not keep his financial commitments. Spends about 100 million dollars on his personal expenses every year. If Diageo does not buy into his company, he is going to sink as he has negative cash flow now. But I doubt Diageo will give him control if they do invest. I am afraid its going be another scam like the Satyam computers scam in India.

[alouette3]

Considering that this thread was started in Oct 2008 and people gave Mallya "90 days 180 tops" and KFA is till flying, I would suggest that all this hoopla might just be a little bit of overreaction from the nay sayers who WANT KFA to fail for various reasons.:hmm:
Of course, I stand ready to eat crow if it does happen in the next 90 to 180 days, tops. :)

Seriously, having been on the unemployment line myself, it is not funny when your employment goes away. It certainly is humbling and very good for the soul.Still, darned uncomfortable.:{
So, even if VJM is a pompous ass and all that, he holds the futures of lots of people in his hand. So I would hope he succeeds, despite everyone's dire predictions.
Alt3

[flyingspur]

Unfortunately it does not look like VJM's airline business will survive unless some one lends him money on a continuous basis, because it will never make any profits. It is not a sustainable business model the way he runs it. Maybe he should learn from Spicejet and Paramount who are doing a good job.

[Schumi - Red Baron]

Maybe he should learn from Spicejet and Paramount who are doing a good job.

I agree with you that he learn from spicejet or indigo model but not paramount model because of this (http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/346121-paramount-payroll.html)....

[VC10Conway]

Gotta say, although the figures really don't look too healthy, it would be a shame to lose a quality airline (from a passenger's perspective) after such a short period of time on international routes. LHR-BLR-LHR last week was simply amazing.

[VS-Toga]

Sod Kingfisher.

What are the implications for IPL's Royal Challengers?

:E

[Schumi - Red Baron]

What are the implications for IPL's Royal Challengers?


Dunno for royal challengers... But not good for the Force India.... I cannot imagine them even getting one point....:hmm:

[mountaintop2007]

is kingfisher not cancelling the a380s?

[Schumi - Red Baron]

Well, they have already cancelled their A320 orders. So, one can imagine what will hapeen with the A380 order...

At the moment they have not cancelled the order but deferred its first delivery to 2014 from 2012. :bored:

[Sky Dancer]

From what Flyingspur has written I'm pretty sure he knows what he is talking about.The fact is Dr.Mallya has leveraged himself beyond his capabilities and like was mentioned earlier , an investigation into his affairs will open a can of worms.His plans to go international are not really going as planned.The planned flights to Singapore and Hong Kong are still in the pipeline.The one thing that is keeping him afloat is the Govt. of India's decision to support his airline by asking the oil companies not to press for payment of the Rs.1,000 crore plus amount that he owes them.The day they do that you can see the airline and a list of UB companies falling like bricks.....:ok:

[B772]

If Kingfisher are still holding A340-500's they will no doubt know TG have been unable to find anyone prepared to buy, lease or even charter their
A340-500 fleet at any price.

[ZFT]

...and have reinstated the LAX - BKK non stopper to utilise part of their fleet as opposed to parking them up.

[Schumi - Red Baron]

New Delhi, March 27 Kingfisher Airlines has approached State Bank of India for a credit line to meet its operational needs, sources privy to the development said.
The airline is reported to be seeking a facility in the range of Rs 1,500-3,000 crore. Sources indicate that the Kingfisher Airlines Chairman, Mr Vijay Mallya, met with the top brass of the bank in Mumbai last Tuesday where a presentation on the company’s business plans and credit requirements was made.

While Kingfisher’s latest financial position is not available, the balance sheet as of March 31, 2008, showed that its current liabilities and provisions exceeded the current assets by Rs 6.9 crore. Its accumulated losses as of March last year amounted to Rs 967.76 crore.


The Hindu Business Line : Mallya meets SBI top brass, seeks credit line for Kingfisher Airlines (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2009/03/28/stories/2009032852100100.htm)

[condorbaaz]

grapevine says that all simulator training has been stopped as KF has used up all the credit given to it, Pilots at LHR are being routed home...

[ZFT]

True for all ATR sim training in TLS, KL and BKK

[uncle sam]

Rumour has it :Now its the turn of the CAE BLR sim slots-also closed to KFA.
So all fleets affected.
This we can surely call a TREND-wonder what the regulatory agencies would say to this-:= No NO not good !

Even when airlines have folded in the past; the last thing that was terminated was training. To have pilots on the payslip without current licences(self created by carrier) doen`t bode well.

Safety is Expensive-training should not be terminated- where is this carriers priority ?

Will this continue? Or is this another ploy to start terminating contracts.
Surely, there may be daily slots for an airline this size.
How many pilots will be without LPC/OPC by the end of this month?

[casper63]

The Kingfisher airline has issued circular to use only Flaps 3 and Reverse Idle for all landings. These so called cost cutting measures would increase the risk and unfortunately the poor fare paying passengers are blissfully unaware. A tail touch or a runway overrun is highly possible in the near future especially in the coming monsoon season, which would more than wipe out all the savings the ops management is trying to accrue.:confused:

[saperaa]

A tail touch or a runway overrun is highly possible in the near future especially in the coming monsoon season, which would more than wipe out all the savings the ops management is trying to accrue.http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/confused.gif
http://static.pprune.org/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif

if they have savings then buying umbrella for rains is good .

[neemath]

Has anybody heard of plans for KF to fly to South Africa? Guess they'll use the A330 on ground?

[condorbaaz]

may be gratis..

No money here either

[saperaa]

http://static.pprune.org/images/icons/46.gif Kingfisher-ipl


in IPL-1 last year they (ROYALS)were number one but from bottom.:}

[heavenbound]

They're not doing too well on their F1 team either.Hear cash situtaion is real dire.Little wonder pilots are having to pay for their accomodation in some cities!

[heavenbound]

Gratis? how does that ever work????

[condorbaaz]

the boss read mallaya says fly them...

and the company flies them..

and nobody has the b@lls to ask for payment


And yes... A330 pilots form bases other than BLR and BOM, have been asked to lookout for own accommodation from May 1 as a cost cutting measure.

[orangedriver]

Casper63 - The Kingfisher airline has issued circular to use only Flaps 3 and Reverse Idle for all landings. These so called cost cutting measures would increase the risk and unfortunately the poor fare paying passengers are blissfully unaware. A tail touch or a runway overrun is highly possible in the near future especially in the coming monsoon season, which would more than wipe out all the savings the ops management is trying to accrue.

What a load of BS!!

Nothing wrong for a company to ask its crew to use perfectly normal configurations for landing if it saves money....
Loads of companies are using these "cost saving measurements", easyJet being one of them. Last year 44.5 million passengers traveled with easyJet on close to 1000 departures per day, still no overruns (not caused by flaps/reverse thrust config anyway).... You can't use flap 3 for "all landings", nothing strange with that though, which pilot would use use flex t/o "for all departures"??! Use it when the operational requirements and conditions allow it, there is a lot of money to be saved.

orange

[casper63]

Orange you are entitled to your opinion. But 99% airlines world over flying Airbus use full flaps and full reverse(Airbus SOP). If one could save loads of money by these monkey tricks, their use would have been a standard norm instead of an exception. By the way use of Flex is a standard norm used by all.
Cheers have a drink mate with all the money you saved for your airlines. But remember they will be the first ones to throw you out if you have a tail touch (eg Emirates). :ok:

[lastdon]

Casper,

https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/258191-airbus-flap-full-flap-3-a.html

This might help.

[casper63]

Thanks Don, the issue has been discussed earlier too and most were of the opinion that the pilots should be allowed to select the configuration they are comfortable with instead of being forced to use Flaps 3 for all landings. I am not comfortable when a pilot with 500 hrs TT is landing a 321 at max landing weight on a shortish runway with Flaps 3. As such your pitch angle is around 5 deg during stable approach, which gives very limited margin during flare for mistakes/inexperience.

[speedbird380super]

Is there any chance that kingfisher will reacquire the a345s in the future to start the US services or is that now a distant dream? I believe that they sold some of them to Arik Air and some to Hifly. Weren't they also planning to start non-stop services from delhi - vancouver as well?

maybe they should have bought the 777LR instead:

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00010497.jpg

[leftseatview]

As far as the stop distance is concerned,config 3 needs on an average about 90 mtrs more then config FULL.
And as far as tail clearance,a heavier A/C will actually have a slightly lower nose att than a lighter one on approach.
So essentailly both the factors will not work in concert.
A minimum amount of experience is definitly required to get the optimum perfrmance out of any type of a/c.
However,once that comfort level is acheived,looking for excuses to fly "safely" at the expense of fuel economy/expeditous traffic flow is a sure indication that you are in aviation for the wrong reasons

[saperaa]

looking for excuses to fly "safely" at the expense of fuel economy/expeditous traffic flow is a sure indication that you are in aviation for the wrong reasons

i hope they donot get next idea of saving conponents ,jacks and flap used in full configuration.
if they remove them and sell ,it will be big money as spares sold+ saving on basic operating weight by +500 kgm.
less BOW will also take care of +90 m of runway length for flap3 landing.

AIRBUSs should learn weight saving, if a/c can land on flap3 why install flap full :rolleyes: and increase BOW+ fuel consumption.;)

[casper63]

Left seat view I know your are in aviation for the right reasons but your lnowledge appears to be a bit rusty. Inadequate grasp of subject and gung ho attitude is a killer combination. Wishng you many many happy landings without tail touch:ok:

[CaptWUFF]

any airlines in india going to hire in the near future? I got 1000 hours TT and 400 hours of Jet...also got an indian license.

[heavenbound]

KFA has tough days ahead my friend by the looks of it. Its not getting money from banks and cash is is drying up.Does anybody have an idea what happened to its third A340- still parked in Toulouse??? Believe Arik took only two.Anybody flying on the A330 bound for SAfrica for IPL?

[condorbaaz]

UB seeks okay to raise loan ceiling- Market News-Stocks-Markets-The Economic Times (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Market-News/UB-seeks-okay-to-raise-loan-ceiling/articleshow/4416601.cms)

Here is the parent company coming in to protect the Kingfisher Airlines

[Sky Dancer]

I think it's about time the Indian government takes a stand on the issue.If they want the Indian aviation industry to develop, the way to do it is to create a favourable environment and then allow genuine players to get into the fray.Looking at the figures, the UB group should have closed down a long time ago.IF KF goes down the drain , the govt. has nothing to do with it,why should the tax payer pay the price for VJM's stupidity.But then I guess that's the way life goes , the father created a fortune for his future generations , and a dumb son goes and squanders it......I'm sure his dad wouldn't have wanted to be around to see this day.:ok:

[alouette3]

Anyone venturing into the world of civil aviation,good times or bad, is gambling.
It is like Richard Branson once said, the way to become a millionaire is to start out as a billionaire and then start an airline.
Alt3

[saperaa]

I think it's about time the Indian government takes a stand on the issue.If they want the Indian aviation industry to develop, the way to do it is to create a favourable environment and then allow genuine players to get into the fray.Looking at the figures, the UB group should have closed down a long time ago.IF KF goes down the drain , the govt. has nothing to do with it

Wht I think is like this…
In 2003 around time, government issued licences to various companies and made money.
Recently when airlines wanted to cut staff, government did not allow this for votes/credibility.
And also did not let any airline to close to maintain credibility in aviation sector which government tried to start.
Now after 5 years we are going for elections, I am sure there is nothing for aviation irrespective of any government coming at centre.
Media also gave big hype about Boom in Indian Aviation but nothing concrete seen.
Just talk and walk.
I don’t think airlines are at fault or VJM,
They have been able to create jobs but could not maintain bcz of domestic and global scenario.
Try to see whole situation with a broader view.
2000-2009 time periods.
It looks now the last five years were big time swindles only.
Just wish a next government can do some thing to save/promote healthy aviation.
And kingfisher + rest of all create more openings for every body.

[rubik101]

In October 2008 this thread opened with the seemingly gloating prediction of the imminent demise of an airline, comparing it to the RMS Titanic;

Last month they couldn't even pay there employees on time...where is all the Mallya money everyone keep talking about? Its all smoking mirrows. No rupees in bank by the 7TH....yeaaa..you will see those planes fly allright.

They fired a capt...then they try to re-hire the same Capt. back after a week......The numbers are coming in...People are leaving, including Indian Capt's....Sit back relax and enjoy the ride.

Close to six months later during a world wide recession and still they fly!!

Care to comment Kinfisher?

[asvsu]

Kingfisher pilots allege breach of contract, petition DGCA

19 Apr 2009, 1234 hrs IST, PTI
Print (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-4420284,prtpage-1.cms) Email (javascript:openWindowmail('/mail/4420284.cms');) Discuss Share (javascript:void(0)) Save (javascript:showdivlayer('4420284','t','close');) Comment (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Top-Headlines/Kingfisher-pilots-allege-breach-of-contract-petition-DGCA/articleshow/4420284.cms#write)Text:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/photo.cms?photoid=3549042
MUMBAI: About a dozen pilots of Kingfisher Airlines have petitioned the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) to direct the airline to waive the mandatory six months notice period (for leaving the company) on their service contract.

The pilots said they are seeking the waiver as the airline has already breached their contracts by altering some service conditions including changes in the salary structure.

"We have petitioned the DGCA that Kingfisher should not be allowed to invoke civil aviation requirement (CAR (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Top-Headlines/Kingfisher-pilots-allege-breach-of-contract-petition-DGCA/articleshow/4420284.cms#)) of 2005, which entails a 6-month prior notice for quitting, on the ground that our service contracts have been changed unilaterally," a petitioner said.

These pilots have put in their papers and are joining other carriers, but the airline is not relieving them, citing the 6-month notice clause, the petitioner said.

A senior DGCA official confirmed that the pilots have approached the regulator.

"Yes, I think, they have... the petition will be heard on Monday," the official said.

The pilots who have quit Mallya's airline include five from Delhi and two each from Mumbai, Bangalore and Hyderabad.

[condorbaaz]

My forecast...

Post election few things will happen in Aviation in India

1. Pilots retirment age reduce to 58 in IC/AI and 60 is per car.
2. New FDTL circular with the optimum of both circulars
3. 6 months notice reqt waived off
4. FATA and Foreign nationals (even on Indian Licence) to go

All of above to make rooms for children cpl/ppl of VIPs waiting for a job.
Target 5000 jobs in 2 years.

Just a prediction....

And in Government will help AI/IC, it has to help the private players as well.

[Okie]

Figureof8, how in the world would Config 3 have any baring on this accident especially on a 4000m runway. The fact of the matter is Airbus recommends Config 3 landings with strong and gusty winds. The probable cause of this incident is improper crosswind landing technique. Landing off center line, crabs not taken out on flare, and wet runway are precursors of runway excursions. With monsoon coming, improper techniques will mean several other similar incidents.

[saperaa]

Post election few things will happen in Aviation in India

1. Pilots retirment age reduce to 58 in IC/AI and 60 is per car.
2. New FDTL circular with the optimum of both circulars
3. 6 months notice reqt waived off
4. FATA and Foreign nationals (even on Indian Licence) to go

All of above to make rooms for children cpl/ppl of VIPs waiting for a job.
Target 5000 jobs in 2 years.


and if one airline sinks all above will happen for sure.
5000 more go job hunting & VIP kids go for toy planes.

to make room for 5000 VIPs on right seat government will have to see 5000 left seats occupied.

[Iver]

Pardon my question. I have read through the many posts in this thread and I have a question about Kingfisher relative to all of the other locos in India. Understanding that no Indian airline pays that great, where would Kingfisher rank in terms of total package for the "average" Captain or FO? Is it the best package relative to other Indian locos? Is it the worst package? If not, which are the best and which are the worst of the various Indian airlines out there?

I had read that Jet Airways and Spicejet packages were considered pretty good (although not confirmed!) but I wondered about Kingfisher.

Cheers

P.S. Just curious as I am not interested in moving to India.

[canflystick]

you can apply in go.indigo airindia exp and few corp jet jobs best of luck

[bepositive1]

even i heard of this course thru my friends yesterday.. costs 60000 indian rupees
it seems they teach alot.. somewhere in bombay..:bored:
question is who the hell would go that far for that course?

[NGFellow]

Rs 8-10 cr: Kingfisher Airlines' unpaid dues to hotels

Published on Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 18:51 , Updated at Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 22:25

http://img1.moneycontrol.com/images/mc_common/b_videoicon.gif (http://www.moneycontrol.com/india/video/stockmarket/07/38/newsvideo/395765) Watch Video (http://www.moneycontrol.com/india/video/stockmarket/07/38/newsvideo/395765)
http://www.moneycontrol.com/news_image_files/neha_75.jpgKingfisher Airlines (http://www.moneycontrol.com/india/stockpricequote/transport/kingfisher-airlines/KA02) has defaulted on payments to many three- and four-star hotels. Hotel industry sources say Kingfisher Airlines owes Rs 8-10 crore to the hotel sector. Hotels, which cater to Kingfisher Airlines in Mumbai are Royal Orchid Hotels, Pride Hotels, Sahara Star and Airport International Hotel.
Here is a verbatim transcript of Neha Pandey’s comments on CNBC-TV18. Also watch the accompanying video.
Kingfisher Airlines has defaulted on payments to many three- and four-star hotels. Hotel industry sources tell us that Kingfisher Airlines alone owes Rs 8-10 crore to the hotel sector. Hotels which cater to Kingfisher Airlines in Mumbai are Royal Orchid Hotels, Pride Hotels, Sahara Star and Airport International Hotel. Well-placed sources at Royal Orchid hotel and Pride Hotel told us that Kingfisher Airlines owes Rs 4.5 crore to Royal Orchid and Rs 1.5 crore to Pride Hotels.
Just a month back, Mumbai-based hotel Water Stones, which is a part of the Gordon House chain, terminated its contract with both Jet Airways (http://www.moneycontrol.com/india/stockpricequote/transport/jet-airways/JA01) and Kingfisher Airlines due to payment issues. Sources say that airlines are allowed a 30-day credit period to pay back hotels but Kingfisher Airlines now wants this credit period to be extended to eight months.
Room rates that are offered by these hotels are around Rs 6,000-7,000 while airlines already get a discount of nearly Rs 2,000. But now Kingfisher Airlines wants a further discount on the accumulated amount.

KF also bounced a 77Crore Cheque to Airport Authority of India according to the Economic Times Today.

[NGFellow]

It is interesting to note how some of these corporations hold their individual employees to a higher standard than they would ever be able to themselves. They expect employees to follow rules, give 6 months notice, etc etc, while they are blatantly late with payments, violate their own terms etc. I am surprised that KF is still operating with so many claims against them. Unless someone bails themout they can't possibly be around by the end of the year, but then again, this is India. Mallya will have to call in the "heavies" to bail him out of the mess he created by virtue of ego and false expectations.

[ecureilx]

Pardon my ignorance. I am just wondering ..

It is industry practice, for any industry, to stretch the payments, and even in Law-abiding Singapore, though terms say 30 days, nobody pays in 30 days, with excuses such as "missed the payment cycle" or "re-invoice" or "large payments need CEO / GM approval, and he is out of the country .. "

And any financial controller worth his salt will always make sure payments are stretched as much as possible, especially when it comes to external vendors.

If IT is that bad, how come they haven't lowered their flag ?

As much as I understand, another airline sinking = enough people jobless and sufferings .. not some vile satisfaction.

Is there really that much fire in IT, for so much smoke ??

In my observation, as somebody not in Aviation in India, I have seen IT grow leaps and bounds, and manages to run such a stellar service, considering all the complication of even driving in Mother India, and havent heard any customer complaining of anything.

Pardon me again, just trying to figure out what's cooking, in these tough times, hoping the last thing anybody need is a pink slip.

It the above is un-warranted, please help me to remove it.

Cheers, safe flying, and happy skies for the professionals, who earn a living in Heavensly skies.

[daviddea]

New FAA mandate all Indians running 7-11s in the USA must be out by 2010

[Arcane]

New FAA mandate all Indians running 7-11s in the USA must be out by 2010

How old are you ? :bored:

[ALBION123]

Sheikyerbooty
New FAA mandate all Indians running 7-11s in the USA must be out by 2010
http://static.pprune.org/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif

what about KFC,STARBUCKS,MAC DONALDs........... ?

[Dagar]

why only 7-11s you forgot that Indian community is the most prosperous immigrant community in U.S.maybe only second to Jewish community.And what are u complainin about,U.S.carriers never hire any foreigners,unless they are green card holders or have the U.S.citizenship.

[moderate]

"Kingfisher sinking'......' is the post so if I may go back to that it is evident the Airline launched not long ago (three and a half years?) and much advertised even more recently on their long haul USA plans etc........the hype is over, 5 Star was always a myth and "Brace, Brace.......as to be expected only when its about to hit the ground. Many of my colleagues left their permanent jobs and joined this outfit when they were enticed with higher salaries, 6 ON/2 OFF patterns and found out what it really was like to work in India and KF in particular. They left the setup earlier than expected and the rest were retrenched within ONE year of joining. They were left high and dry by the so called management there. Let no one make a fairy tale of working in a country that is full of corruption and lacks the many ingredients required to make flying safe there. Some of you may want to rush to the rescue, be my guest but I too have been flying in/out of India for the past ten years. The many horror stories I hear from those who had returned from this outfit is scary and the place best avoided for life. KF had proved to be an unpleasant and unreliable place to work in. To their credit, it appears that the salaries had been paid almost on time - though the cabin crew had NOT been paid salaries for sometime but are scared not to come for work thinking that they would be sent home. There's said to be much infighting, politics and robbing VM at all levels. That's what I have heard any comments from the victims?

[weido_salt]

The only control that will keep the a/c straight in a x-wind, especially on a wet runway is the rudder. Forget about nose wheel steering, until very late in the proceedings.

Reverse idle? Forget it. Qantas tried that (reinventing the wheel) and came to grief.

If you want the stopping power, engage full reverse ASAP, or instruct the a/c computers to do so. Anything less will increase the chances of an overrun. Yes I am aware the reverse is not factored in the landing calculations, however we need these things on our side, especially if we are not in the "slot" and begin "burning up concrete" at an alarming rate.

Learn from the mistakes of others. Failure to do so will result in increased costs, not reduced costs.

[Abacus]

Well said 'moderate'.

That just about sums up KFA. I had the misfortune to work for them for a few months until they laid of most of the ex-pats.
From my time there I was NOT impressed with anything I saw and experienced there on the local side. Having said that, I did work with an extremely professional group of guys who were shafted well and truly with not a single word of apology. A great loss to KFA, but it serves them right! Fortunately for me a much better job came along and I am now very content in my new position, but I feel very sorry for those who are still looking. I am sure it won't be too long. There are still jobs out there! Good luck chaps, you deserve it.
As for KFA management, and the playboy kid (who clearly hasn't a clue how the idiots are running the asylum) - you'll get your just reward, of that I am certain!
Just so sad for all the hard working guys and girls who will be adversly affected.

[saperaa]

Kingfisher gave highest salary on the planet.
Kingfisher gave free hotel accommodation.
Kingfisher gave free laundry service.
Kingfisher gave free meals more than 3 times a day.
Kingfisher gave free internet in the hotel.
Kingfisher gave full salary on time to expats only.
Kingfisher gave full salary without work/flying.
Kingfisher has best FA educated smart/beautiful and well trained.

Only kingfisher gave, no other airline gives on this planet.
This doesn’t sound horror story.
expats got full salary where as others salaries got slashed via email.
(read DGCA 6 months notice waived off for Indian pilots because salary cuts via email)

All airlines here have cut down orders,diliveries,flights, and international sectors due to the recession.
Kingfisher postponed US flights because of USA economy and recession.
Now swine flu in USA can affect the aviation in India.
Why to blame India for opening up the jobs, jobs are because of global situation.
Jobs are affected for all, not only expats.
Yes big mess up @ kingfisher management.
To pay such huge salaries without utilization for year…… (which company gives?)
it was still possible(salary but no work) if global situation had not gone to this level, this recession is known as biggest in 100 years.
And still airlines in India are managing to survive some how where as many airlines on this planet are already forgotten.

Kingfisher will start USA January 2011, sub …… load.

[yanafrica]

TOTAL B.S...
get a life !!! what about the operational part
when you receive a roster at 2300 for a flight at 0500
not one dispatcher got a licence
maintenance doesn't have a spare bulb for the ccas
the transport companie change every week for non payment as well as hotel and now training
and so and so........

[ALBION123]

Sheikyerbooty
New FAA mandate all Indians running 7-11s in the USA must be out by 2010


Daviddea

I think FAA runs GA in USA.
Since when FAA changed ……..?
May be FAA is creating jobs for the returning tax paying citizens.
Instead of creating jobs @ NASA they are looking to doom 7-11s now.
7-11s was a good profit making chain which you want to run now.

USAs automobile,realestate,banking,aviation doomed some time back.
Your government needs more professionals to run businesses.
Indian banking system, real estate, automobile, aviation is still running but affected by global recession.

[ALBION123]

Kingfisher will start USA January 2011, sub …… load
when will be australia???

[Abacus]

Saperaa - your point is?

It seems the hotels gave free accomodation, the hotels gave free internet access, the hotels gave three meals a day, the hotels gave free laundry!

This is easy if you don't pay the hotel bill. Along with most other bills.

And your comment that we ex-pats 'still got paid' is hardly worth commenting on. We are not low houred first timers trying to get a foothold on the ladder. Personally I left an extremely well paid position, - Yes even better than KF! - to experience flying in a different part of the world, and give my experience to KFA when they needed it. I did not do it just for the money, and like everyone else took the risk. I am a big boy, I can handle it! But when I see how others, less fortunate than myself, have been so adversly affected by management recklessness (or stupidity, or both!) and then cut people adrift with out so much as a 'sorry, but thanks anyway'!
And those guys who were employed for a year or more with not so much as turning a wheel, no currency, nothing, and then to be told, by email, you're terminated. How are these guys expected to get a job elswhere. The decent thing would have been a line sector or a PPC/IR renewal. I think KFA owed them that!

And you local guys, I assume you are local, also got shafted!
And you still think KFA are great? You must be easily pleased! :ugh:

But never mind, as long as VJ keeps putting more money into Farce India! Sorry, typo error, of course I really meant Force India! - that's all right then!

[Nevrekar]

Indian Oil Company just invoked a 50 crore bank guarantee on Kingfisher Airlines. It's the first time they have done that apparently.

Also in DEL on the ramp KFA has two A-320's parked with no engines mounted. No good for PR.

[condorbaaz]

Add to it no salary also paid till today.. unheard of in KFA of yore..

[Sky Dancer]

Sapeera , I think your post is a very uninformed post.To imply that a professional commercial pilot would be lured by what I would call rather cheap incentives is quite demeaning of a profession many of us take great pride in.You must remember that when one runs an organisation one must always have the right people at the right places and that is what ensures the success of the organisation.Unfortunately that is what KF lacked.He lost that opportunity when he lost Alex Wilcox.It is quite evident by now that VJM does not have much of a clue about airline management and at this point in time he has taken the entire UB Group to the edge of a cliff.It is quite possible that the group will plunge and this has nothing to do with the world economic situation.The only impact the economic situation had on VJM was that now , the financial institutions are more prudent and would be think twice before bankrolling one of his mindless ventures.I have been a very vocal critic of both him and Gopinath on this forum for this reason.Both they and their supporters have argued that they have created jobs and wealth but right now there are many who stand the chance of losing everything all together.You see, it is great to create jobs but it would be better if you can create jobs that last for if you do not you only add to the woes of the already bad financial system.

All over the world the standard practise among airline companies is that if they lack qualified flight crew , they would recruit qualified and trained flight crew from across the world and pay a premium for it.For there has to be something to attract them to you.Once they have handed over their experience to the local crew they would move on and the locals would be given the opportunities.Unfortunately in India , the expats are made out to be criminals and much of their experience and good practises neglected.In the name of national pride , which I consider false pride , they have been asked to leave and I think eventually the travelling public would have to pay a price for this.Apart from the last KF runway incident , there have been 2 other incidents that have occured in India in the last few weeks in a leading airline that could have been disastrous.All flown by local crew who were relatively inexperienced.By saying this I'm not implying any racial but saying that qualification and experience matters a lot.And for the record , many of the Indian crew are simply second to none.At this point in time I should also ask , how should one consider the many Indian pilots that work for some of the leading airlines around the world ?

Now back to the point , KF needs to get their act together.There is no point blaming anyone for that.If they don't there won't be a KF very soon.And for the flights to the US...a pipe dream my friend,pipe dream.:ok:

[condorbaaz]

Very aptly said skydancer

VJM got poor advisors in managerial posts who were related to other people.

You got an Engineer as a Exec VP, No flaw in itself but anti Pilots.

You got inflight under Guest services and not Operations,

All operations are compared to Jet.



Pilots in different lobbies viz. expat, local, Ex Indian Airlines, Ex Air India, Ex Military etc. etc. and hence no unified voice or culture. A normal thing for startups but pilots need to evolve as an organisation grows and not stick to their previous employers ethos.

Now creditors are encashing guarantees..

Hope that the company stays around..

[Abacus]

Very succinctly put, 'Sky Dancer'.

Couldn't agree more!

[saperaa]

Yanafrica

Not really B.S.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News-By-Industry/Jobs/Slowdown-forces-companies-to-review-expat-salaries/articleshow/4482945.cms (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News-By-Industry/Jobs/Slowdown-forces-companies-to-review-expat-salaries/articleshow/4482945.cms)


Hope VJM knows how to market alcohol.
It should be 12 yrs old and marked on the bottle with 12 year old tag to get price as desired and printed.
Same is with the airline business.
Now in 3-4 year old airline you cannot expect roster like 12 year old airline.
It takes time to mature.
Same is with the management of Kingfisher; most of them are new to business like VJM.
At this 3-4 years airline I cannot find much fault especially when every day a new route/flight is planned and next day it’s cancelled.
Its hard time for all, not only for pilots but the management as well.

Forget the roster now, first priority is salary.
We will see operational part later.

[saperaa]

It seems the hotels gave free accomodation, the hotels gave free internet access, the hotels gave three meals a day, the hotels gave free laundry!


this is one of the reasons for KFA today"s situation.

with your experience behind you, i am sure you must have felt this is some thing not good.
only @ kingfisher.

so many wrongs @ KFA, ........

[yanafrica]

Forget the roster now, first priority is salary.
We will see operational part later.

what kind of comments is that ???? ever heard about stress,fatigue.....

thanks god i had the chance to fly with very nice, mature , and professional Indian FO.
happy landings

[scorpilot]

to all concerned, salary credited a few hours ago...there's no point predicting the slow death of KF...we all gain if it survives..black or white..local or expat!

[saperaa]

sky dancer
your post is 100% correct
i never wanted to hurt anybody sentiments/feeling.
but i posted with a thought to save airline/jobs
and before we blame others we need to see our part.
pilots got incentives yes,it was not expected by them.
it was management who offered and we are surprised.
no airline does that.
kingfisher only...........................................
thats why the last post,
and i know its only kingfisher where pilots have nothing to contribute.
and operations has no say.
kingfisher gave was my word in last post.

[Boeing7xx]

heard one of the fuel suppliers just yanked the Bank Guarantee on Kingfish... all this while VJM's watching IPL in south africa with a bevy of people he flew out on the 330 (???)

[leftseatview]

Just for the record,R/w "incident" at BLR involved an Expat.
In Aviation as elswhere,we learn form those with more experience,and then pass on our own to the new kids in the block.
And in todays global village,this professional practice generally cuts across national/ airline/ military backgrounds.
Those of us who have been around a while,have seen hard times before,so have the resolve to "hang in there" whatever our nationality.

[saperaa]

what kind of comments is that ???? ever heard about stress,fatigue.....




i heard from you.

[saperaa]

abacus
Abacus (http://www.pprune.org/members/8824-abacus)

Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: 100 east
Posts: 18


Saperaa - your point is?

It seems the hotels gave free accomodation, the hotels gave free internet access, the hotels gave three meals a day, the hotels gave free laundry!

This is easy if you don't pay the hotel bill. Along with most other bills.

And your comment that we ex-pats 'still got paid' is hardly worth commenting on. We are not low houred first timers trying to get a foothold on the ladder. Personally I left an extremely well paid position, - Yes even better than KF! - to experience flying in a different part of the world, and give my experience to KFA when they needed it. I did not do it just for the money, and like everyone else took the risk. I am a big boy, I can handle it! But when I see how others, less fortunate than myself, have been so adversly affected by management recklessness (or stupidity, or both!) and then cut people adrift with out so much as a 'sorry, but thanks anyway'!
And those guys who were employed for a year or more with not so much as turning a wheel, no currency, nothing, and then to be told, by email, you're terminated. How are these guys expected to get a job elswhere. The decent thing would have been a line sector or a PPC/IR renewal. I think KFA owed them that!

And you local guys, I assume you are local, also got shafted!
And you still think KFA are great? You must be easily pleased! :ugh:

But never mind, as long as VJ keeps putting more money into Farce India! Sorry, typo error, of course I really meant Force India! - that's all right then!
http://static.pprune.org/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif

good to knw you got job @ another airline.
i am sure with your experience and tenure @ kingfisher you can help to save the airline and the fellow pilots you left behind.
please help all.:ok:

[saperaa]

salary!
to all concerned, salary credited a few hours ago...there's no point predicting the slow death of KF...we all gain if it survives..black or white..local or expat!
http://static.pprune.org/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif

funds coming.
pax loads up:ok:
world econ+
feel good n
in six months India aviation lookout is good good:ok:

[heavenbound]

The money might come in trickles-SBI just gave him INR 500crores- but one suspects it will be like feeding an ocean.
Anybody attending VJMs 30crores party in Cannes next week:eek:?

[screwballburling]

Party in Cannes??!!

Has the man got no taste? Obviously not!

[condorbaaz]

should not confuse personal wealth with company performance.\

UB had a turnover of Rs 14500 crores last year

[saperaa]

should not confuse personal wealth with company performance.\

UB had a turnover of Rs 14500 crores last year


and count what turnover during last ten years+:ok:

leave aside personal wealth.

[saperaa]

@kingfisher .....started with good time...and is throu bad phase.....good time will come again....

hi all
think what kingfisher gave you
kingfisher gave you job
kingfisher gave you new a/c to fly
kingfisher gave you among the best uniform to be proud of.
kingfisher gave you decent salary
kingfisher is new airline, need to cultivate it now, to wait for the fruits.
donot try to take fruits coming in baskets from kingfisher.
kingfisher has gone throu fuel crisis,bank crisis,global crisis etc.
kingfisher has also gone throu this thread for almost a year now and still flying.:ok:
no staff of kingfisher should be a burden on kingfisher.
and no parasite must remain @ kingfisher.
this airline can make or break all,not only the staff of kingfisher.

Pilots in different lobbies viz. expat, local, Ex Indian Airlines, Ex Air India, Ex Military etc. etc. and hence no unified voice or culture. A normal thing for startups but pilots need to evolve as an organisation grows and not stick to their previous employers ethos.



divided we stand....this job is done by the management but sadly pilots are divided .making management job simple.
need to wake up and fly now....politic at home.

scorpilot (http://www.pprune.org/members/96144-scorpilot)

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: India
Age: 34
Posts: 20
http://static.pprune.org/images/misc/im_icq.gif (http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/348735-kingfisher-sinking-like-titanic.html#) http://static.pprune.org/images/misc/im_yahoo.gif (http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/348735-kingfisher-sinking-like-titanic.html#)

salary!
to all concerned, salary credited a few hours ago...there's no point predicting the slow death of KF...we all gain if it survives..black or white..local or expat!


it will fly:ok:

[ZFT]

..but only if it pays its suppliers.

There is no goodwill left to exploit.

[sec 3]

You are a SAPP. Don't drink anymore of the Kool Aid. :} The truth be known, I and a bunch of my colleagues were gonna pack up and leave our present job to go with KF. We're thanking our lucky stars today that we didn't:sad:

[moderate]

Thank you ABACUS, SKY DANCER and a few others for their valuable comments about the issues that affect KF. That seems to be in line with what I've heard from those that ventured out to this upstart and burnt their fingers.
They also mentioned about the likes of SAP...(?) who speak very positively on anything but not knowing a thing. How every true, it's called 'Ignorance', yaar?

There's no point in talking of free this and free that, what matters is whether a Company has its priorities right so that its employees are not ditched because of their own excesses and corruption! KF is NOT going anywhere except in their dreams. First pay your dues and then put your house in order. Too many had burnt their fingers to even start believing in the BS that is being dished out by SAP.. who has his/her knickers in a twist.

[saperaa]

They also mentioned about the likes of SAP...(?) who speak very positively on anything but not knowing a thing. How every true, it's called 'Ignorance', yaar?



mod
i agree with you and others
but why these affects pilots didnot come out and discuss the problems they faced and..........................
why abacus is not speaking?
stories you heard...or i heard won"t sell.

what matters is whether a Company has its priorities right so that its employees are not ditched because of their own excesses and corruption! KF is NOT going anywhere except in their dreams.

you heard and i heard from story tellers.

my post was just that rescue these guys...airline must run...so we all get jobs.

abacus already got a job so he care a f++k for others.

where we stand as pilots...tell me...
has anybody gave his experience while dealing kingfisher management?
i wrote kingfisher
not the management.

every fruit basket which comes to you cost 100$
and 200$ goes on company bill....

why you take this fruit and donot say any thing......

same is with hotel n other free frisbies

i think we need to save the airline save the jobs.

i have already said in my post ....pilots have no say...operations have no say 2 kingfisher.

ABACUS was the perfect pilot who is got the job n can save airline+ jobs.
he is missing.

no working pilot will say any thing.
he/she may loose job.

[moderate]

Dear Saperaa, you got sillier by the day. May be you have been working for this outfit for too long? ABACUS and the rest have given up on you.....don't you get it?
As for the prices of fruits and vegetables and the reason why we didn't decline them when offered - or was that your question? Well, we are talking here of professional Pilots and not street vendors whose job it would be to check on those prices or the Police who would have to check on who is robbing whom.

That's why we are discussing here about the fate of those who believed in the Indian miracle - THAT NEVER CAME!!! Sorry to have disturbed your slumber, please go back to sleep and let the professionals discuss things which are at a higher level.

[heavenbound]

the only ones with the say are the stewardesses

[bepositive1]

I totally Agree! New News is that KFA has paid all their ATR Dues all over the world and this is confirmed news!
ALl command upgrades in the airline is Via the ATR now
And 25 pilots in whole have put in their resignation to join indigo!
Happy flying all!

[ZFT]

There does appear to be some foundation for the above statement although with National holidays in France and Thailand last Friday and tomorrow again being a holiday in Thailand, not possible to confirm.

However, what guarantees are there that the training providers will welcome KFA back?

Once bitten, twice shy!

[condorbaaz]

maybe now all training will be with upfront payment only:ugh:

[rdr]

I too saaps have had just about enough of your posts and may start using stronger language than i would like to do.

Dagar, at least Saaps wears his heart on his sleeves unlike others who snipe from behind covers and egg on the frontliners who take the first bullets. So go take a Flying f..k at the moon or come up with something original.

[ALBION123]

abascus

Personally I left an extremely well paid position, - Yes even better than KF! - to experience flying in a different part of the world, and give my experience to KFA when they needed it. I did not do it just for the money, and like everyone else took the risk. I am a big boy, I can handle

due respect to your experience please PM me about kingfisher since you have worked at kingfisher.
i understand you donot wish to share or save anybody.
it may help me in my future.

i visited India on tourist visa n found perfect for me.
i think if you had taken tourist visa you might have saved burning your fingers.

[bepositive1]

You guys seem to be discussing something totally not related to the thread!
Btw KFA is slowly coming back on track... news is that 320 training bills also will be paid slowly over 2 months.
All this stacked up because deccan had a huge debt KFA dint knw about!

[Schumi - Red Baron]

KFA is paying all the debts and money by the loan they secured from different banks (national and intl')... So, if you see it in a different way they still have to pay the money (now to a different party though)... :hmm:

[Abacus]

Another good post 'Moderate'.


Saperaa!
There is absolutely no point in continuing a pointless discussion!

Those that manipulate the levers in KFA - I hesitate, with one or two notable exceptions, to call them management - are not interested in the slightest about what the rest of us think!

The airline may survive, it might not. Whether it does or not will not be up to likes of your or I!

Perhaps the apparently 'huge' turnover of the UB Group may see them through, perhaps not!
Only time will tell.

And by the way, even though I do have a job, does NOT mean I don't give a F:mad:K for my ex-colleagues!
That particular sentiment could well be directed much closer to home!

[condorbaaz]

rumor mills say possible wet lease for widebody on the cards..

but that has been said for a long time now...

[heavenbound]

Lets wait and see
KFA has debts and liabilities of over INR8500 crores.
Don't for one minute believe the oil bills are paid!!:sad:

Has anybody heard why the ATR training bills are being paid??? Are they planning any more international flts with ATRs?

[heavenbound]

:=Lets wait and see
KFA has debts and liabilities of over INR8500 crores.
Don't for one minute believe the oil bills are paid!!:sad:

Has anybody heard why the ATR training bills are being paid??? Are they planning any more international flts with ATRs?

[ZFT]

Has anybody heard why the ATR training bills are being paid??? Are they planning any more international flts with ATRs?

How about no ticket, no ride? KFA have really underestimated the 'pi$$ed off' factor with their training providers.

[707Lover]

Screrballburlig:What's your problem with YOUR BOSS being in Cannes,try to become at least even a "small" boss and then we will see how you behave.He is rich,he does what he wants with his money,if you're not happy go back home...
ZFT:At your age you should not be complaining,what's your problem about the "suppliers",was is better in your former company?If yes,what are you still doing here??

[Capt Turbo]

707...the short answer to why people are staying with an airline is: It is the perceived best job available for you at a given time, considering private life, salary, career outlook, challenges etc.
That goes for you, me and the rest of the guys, but we are all having different priorities, hence the different choices. You can have a secure job in a national or major flag carrier with a slow, steady carrier or you can apply for glitz and glamour in an upstart airline who has ordered 1000 A380s. Again, if it is within range of airlines available to you (and that may not include the really nice ones for various reasons).
Interestingly, nowhere else in the world have you ever seen pilots "shopping around" so intensely as in the last 10 years in India (hence the law) the reason being the tremendous devellopment in the Indian civil aviation. And never - not even in the haydays of jet aviation in the 60´s US - did you see pilots trying to shortcut the carreer ladder so fast on such limited experience as in India today. The IATA historical average for F/O time before command is 10years+ and some western countries have had a "waste" ratio (i.e. CPL holders who never got a permanent job) of 80%+.
So, compared to the rest of the world, you are SPOILED :{, and the widespread dream of getting rid of the experienced (expat) pilots just illustrates exactly HOW spoiled you are. You may not have figured out yet that the reason KFA is upgrading the F/Os via the ATR is not to treat them unjust, but that it is the only way the company is able to man the left ATR seats once the expat captains are forced out. Why? Because it is considered undesirable for the local holder of a still wet ALTP to touch anything smaller than an A320 := (just read a few posts up)!

All this has also to do with the hopefully soon upcoming wetlease of a presently redundant A330. This lease is probably the single most important operational improvement of the current KFA situation and will require 16+pilots.
Do you for 1 second believe that the owners (not KFA) will allow their asset to be operated only by low-hours-on-type pilots who have never been outside India + Hounslow? And what can KFA do about it?? You try to figure that out. And the bunch of hustlers kindly known as "expat contract pilots" ?? Will they smell a suddenly improved negotiating environment?? U bet!! So you put yourself in the shoes of KFA management and give us the safe, cheap and lasting solution to this little problem and post it here, please..:E. (Nooo, just kidding...Of course all the KFA WB TREs or whatever will love to fly to the worst asshole place in the world 24/7 and KFA can always hire a few more highly experienced captains on a local, Indian contract, no sweat..).

And btw, pls answer this: Now that you are a 707Lover, do you know where to find Lower 41, or are you just another Wannabe???

Brgds Capt. Turbo, Lower 41 with lovely Sasha ;)

[ZFT]

707lover,

ZFT:At your age you should not be complaining

don't be so condescending.

what's your problem about the "suppliers"

I don't have a problem, the providers do. They appreciate being paid for their services.

was is better in your former company?If yes,what are you still doing here??

What former company are you talking about and where is here?

[Schumi - Red Baron]

707, you are another wannabie... Aren't you??? Because a "professional pilot" would never say that...

I think, that at your age, it would be really nice if you think before you post here...:hmm:

[heavenbound]

Lets face it 707lover- you gotta have your eyes closed- cant you see what is happening at KFA? They owe EVERYBODY!!

[Abacus]

Saw VJ's 319 in Nice today!

I swear I saw the cabin chock full of drums of Jet A1! Or was it Formula 1 motor spirit! Or..........!

I wonder how he's going to get out of Nice when they present his bill for payment!

[heavenbound]

probably offer his yatcht or safari park in south africa!:suspect:

[heavenbound]

and now the two a330s are heading for arik air- what happens to long-haul plans?
and isn't one a330 a christmas tree???

[DesiPilot]

there is a A320 and A321 parked in DEL that are Xmas trees for sure. Never seen brand new aircrafts abused/vandalised like this in my life.

[condorbaaz]

heavenbound :

Kingfisher firms five-A350 order in otherwise bleak April (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/05/07/326155/kingfisher-firms-five-a350-order-in-otherwise-bleak.html)

this happens to long haul plans

[Sky Dancer]

Well I must say that Dr.VJM never ceases to amaze me.Can anyone fill me in on the latest goings on in KFA ????From the last I heard they face an exodus of crew and are returning quite a few aircraft....but was watching the IPL recently and saw the marketing blitz of KFA over there...watching that you get the impression that he's on some major expansion spree...:bored::confused::ok:

[rdr]

the advertisments were paid for last year in a one time deal

[heavenbound]

:uhoh:Cannot believe KFA has paid for anything.:D

Just think malya does not care enough- he does not even have a CEO for KFA.

[Left Wing]

isnt he the CEO of the airline and the IPL team and the F1 team ??? :eek::ugh::=

[Sky Dancer]

I guess that explains why all those ventures are performing the way they are at the moment...:ok:

[Left Wing]

Brazilian authorities to lift foreign ownership cap on airlines
Rainer Uphoff (28May09, 14:01 GMT, 188 words)
Brazil is preparing to raise its current 20% cap on foreign airline ownership to 49% in a process which could become law before the end of this year.

A source from the defence ministry, which is politically responsible for civil aviation in Brazil, says a legislative proposal will be presented to the federal parliament "within a couple of months".

Initial drafts of the proposal have been tentatively accepted by the civil aviation administration, ANAC, and the defence ministry's consultative civil aviation secretary, SAC.

While no final date for the parliamentary hearings has yet been set, the ministry source expects no political resistance to the law.

" allows Brazilian airlines to get better access to international capital while not giving up local control over a strategic sector," he says.

Brazil's airline industry has recently attracted a number of foreign, mainly US-based investors, some of which - such as US investment fund MatlinPatterson's acquisition of VarigLog and Varig - have faced legal problems.

Other recent investments in the sector include US carrier SkyWest's stake in TRIP Linhas Aereas and JetBlue Airways founder David Neeleman's involvement in start-up regional operator Azul.


[I]This is the only way to salvage the Indian aviation industry...the Brazilians have made leaps and bounds in aviation..while the Indian aviation industry sits and collects dust...it needs to be opened up just like IT industry...

[Sky Dancer]

That's a good post Left Wing and I fully agree.But if you recall , in the early 90s when the aviation sector was opening up in India, there was no clear policy on foreign airline ownership for Indian carriers and Jet Airways was 20% owned by Gulf Air and 20% owned by Kuwait Airways.It had a technical support agreement with Malaysia Airlines at that time.When TATA was planning to come in with a partnership with SIA , Jet lobbied for the rule to be implemented and it has remained that way since.Today both Jet Airways and KF desperately want the rule to be rewritten but if they it now , it would be disastrous for Air India....I doubt if the government will let that happen...we'll have to just wait and watch.. :ok:

[vivekh]

there is already a cap of 49% FDI in the civil aviation sector in india... i believe since a while now. hasnt wilbur ross invested some $80 million in spicejet??

The difference here is that, foreign airlines are not allowed to invest in the domestic carriers. although, our airlines are lobbying the ministry to allow this, and looks like the new government has some plans to either increase fdi to the 70% range or even allow foreign airlines to invest in our debt ridden domestic low cost airlines...

[heavenbound]

wonder how he plans to pay for the A350s-with his blood I guess?? thats the only thing left.........:*

[air_cowboy]

as per my understanding goes the government previously did allow fdi upto 49% but international airlines were restricted to this. the new government has hinted to allowing foreign airlines now to get in on the 49% fdi . to be declared during budget....

[Sky Dancer]

Yes the present regulations permit equity participation in Indian carriers to varying degrees based on wether it's a pax , cargo or chopper operation.But the part ownership of foreign carriers is still not permitted.The last attempt of a foreign airline investment in India was with the Indian governement blessings when SIA tried for 26% stake in Air India.That didn't happen for various reasons.However this time around if they do permit foreign airline ownership , that would almost certainly be the end of Air India as a government airline at least...:ok:

[Sky Dancer]

The latest news is Dr.VJM is lobbying hard to allow foreign airlines to invest in Indian carriers.The commerce ministry has put forward the proposal , wonder if it'll go through....that's his only chance of bailing out his airlineand at the same time make money out of it....but I would assume that foreign airlines would have more sense than that..to put money in a sinking ship...:ok:

[moderate]

VJM and his business plans........or dreams but no plans? What a mess he had made of the lives of many Pilots who were already well employed before moving to KFA and making the worst decision in their professional careers? He may have wanted to be the Richard Branson of India but what a hash he made of it all! He may be having a ball in S.Africa, womanizing elsewhere or even burning tyres on race tracks but he would never get the blessings or good wishes of the many families that he had ditched through his sheer social irresponsibility. No point in getting the fleet of aircraft blessed if the man is cursed.http://static.pprune.org/images/icons/46.gif

[wetdrops]

VJM and his 'Fly the good times!' airline ... what a mismanaged and misguided lot they are. Many Pilots, previously with secure and stable jobs, up to date are looking for employment. Drivers who came in with dual ratings, are now down to a single type rating coz they have lost recency on type. Cabin Crew are miserable with the new salary structure and get paid next to nothing. Indian Pilots uncertain of their future ... the list goes on. All this while the Liquor Baron continues his lavish lifestyle, from Film Festivals to Formula 1 venues. I pause to wonder whether he really knows whats going on at Kingfisher Airlines.
Latest news is that VP Operations (D.D. Gandhi) has resigned from his post. Has he sniffed a rat in the whole scam and bailing out in good time or is he too disgusted at the treatment of Employees and does not want any curses directed towards him?

[vivekh]

Check it out... looks like kingfisher is planning on selling stake to stay afloat!
Kingfisher, Singapore Airlines in stake sale talks: Sources

In what could be yet another big event in the aviation sector, sources said that Kingfisher Airlines and Singapore Airlines are in possible stake sale talks.
NDTV has learnt that Kingfisher Airlines might look at off loading 25-26 per cent stake.

Kingfisher, according to sources, has a debt burden of over Rs 9000 crore and had also been in talks with foreign airlines in the past for picking equity in the airline.

Meanwhile, according to sources, Singapore Airlines, which is keen to invest in Indian market as a strategic investor, had earlier also initiated talks for investments in Indian aviation space.

Both the airlines did not want to comment on the matter.
Well, with the government already exploring the option of allowing FDI in aviation, Kingfisher it seems, is all set to make the most of the opportunity.
(Copied from here (http://flyingindians.*************/2009/06/kingfisher-singapore-airlines-in-stake.html))


Will be interesting to see if this is just another rumour or whether it will actually happen! But i guess they could repay quite some debt from this sale....

[Sky Dancer]

Well the reality is that Dr. VJM knows exactly what is happening and he knows that he doesn't really have a chance of survival.He's been busy lobbying in Delhi for allowing foreign airlines FDI in Indian carriers.He's managed the first step which is the commerce ministry has "recommended" the FDI of foreign airlines.But he's now got the tough task of getting it through the cabinet....if the cabinet permits it , it's more or less the end of Air India , it will be privatised as their IPO will be out sometime soon.But then I assume that the guys in SIA are smart enough to make a wise decision on KF....it will be the biggest mistake in their history if they invest....:}:ok:

[vivekh]

dont think airindia will be privatised so soon... the govt will be giving ai a bailout package... but me thinks an ipo wont happen soon in these market conditions...

as for sia... if IT does recover and survive.. SIA would profit quite a bit, since at current conditions, they would get their stake relatively cheaper than otherwise!!

[condorbaaz]

you think it will be bad for sia? pls explain how

[Sky Dancer]

Basic principles of finance and accounting , would you like to buy into a company which is laden with debt and still not have outright ownership or management control.At the same time invest in an environment that might change in future ?Remember some foreign carriers have to divest when the government had changed in the 90s....I certainly would not want to gamble with that:ok:

[neemath]

sia has clearly said they are not interested-i read in an american daily website.
looks like ba might be a contender....but who wants to buy into a loser, one should ask.:ugh:

[condorbaaz]

BPCL sues Kingfisher Airlines- Airlines / Aviation-Transportation-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News-by-Industry/BPCL-sues-Kingfisher-Airlines/articleshow/4700352.cms)

It will really fold quickly now? or it wont...?

[leftseatview]

The fact is that these very oil companies and Airport services are owed much larger amounts by Air India.
AAI has even paid tax on income from Air India.
Income,which by their own assesment they will never receive.
However due to their common govt patronage,their hands(and mouths!) are tied as far as efforts to recover these dues are concerned.
Jet and Kingfisher(arguably managed much more professionally than Air India) have so far managed to stay one step ahead in paying their bills.
While the govt is officially considering a "realistic" bail out package for Air India.
It is unlikely to remain a mute spectator to the fortunes of others in the industry,also employing many thousands.And providing a much more palatable alternative to the travelling public.

[Cubs2jets]

LOL !! :}

This thread was started on 28 Oct, 2008. If the Titanic sank as slowly as this they would have sailed into New York harbour and set a new trans-Atlantic record ! :eek:

C2j

[condorbaaz]

good one c2j:)

[bepositive1]

As they say Unhappy pilots ruin the airline!

On the weekend KFA had an incident in BBD .. heard 10Million $ Loss for the company in repairs for the aircraft!:\

Guess the Management has to really think of Making the employee happy and then running an airline. Seems to be a psychological Block for the employee to help the airline recover

Their accumulated losses are heard to be 8000CR

Where does the company go from 8000? maybe to 9000??

Heard over 62 Capts and F/o Have resigned for Indigo and talks of VP Ops leaving have strung Another 10 to leave to GOair as they need the Pilots for their 10'th aircraft.

Paramount ordering 10 A321 Would attract some more Capts and F/o

Things In KFA not looking good as their Sankhya rostering System Out of which the salary structure has been tailor made is Complete trash! Think someone seems to be making money out of this too!!

When would the management realise the system they are running doesnt work?
Or is it too late?

Wonder who the new CEO would be? Because if the rumours are true about SIA buying a stake into this airline the current EVP and Management would ruin SIA too !


Waiting for your feeback! Happy Flying And BePostive for a change !

[Left Wing]

talks of VP Ops ..you mean capt RN is leaving ??? :eek::eek:..say good buy to KFA..

[scorpilot]

c2j:ok:!

this thread has run out of steam and all the self proclaimed doomsdayers need to call it a day:{...the global airline industry is going through one of the worst times and we are part of it...

yes the VP Ops ( Capt.Gandhi ) has resigned...thats his personal choice..I dont think a single line pilot makes his decision to stay/go based on the above. each individual has his own professional/financial situation unique to him/her....

i think sankhya has done a good job so far...no major issues...pls stop this thread into degenerating into free for all " lets bash KFA"...we just started DXB and hope to fly into more int'l destinations soon!:D

i hope paramount and go do get more a/c's so that more and more ppl get employment..as for the incident at IXB...10 million for a wing tip damage sounds preposterous ( a new 320 costs 50 -60 million i thought!)...

[bepositive1]

Ok From What I hear Scor.. VP- was Forced to resign because of his spat with SVP. (No names)
Sankhya has failed Miserably To regularize training flights in roster. why does YOUR AIRLINE have 36 people in the rostering department and 19 in the training!!!

A330 Ops is on the verge on closing down.
And to top it all JET Konnect with seems to be the model Jet has opened to match KF Red's model just opened 125 Flights and seems to be going full. So what KFA Boasts of having 25.7% Passenger load in the month of may is going to go down the drain if they dont think and act up! which never seems to be the case with KFA Management.
My question is why KFA cant think faster, their networking department cant start the Middle east flight and sell like hot cakes like JET seems to be doing.. and rostering cannot match INDIGO's Roster. why??
Your loyalty in the airline maybe because you joined it from the begining but from what the market Hears and just what the market says (i say again) none of your employees including the transport driver is happy..

10mil For structural damage to the fuselage and to the wing i think is quite reasonable. The cracks seem to have traveled all the way to the rudder and tail!!
To Top it all Pilots are joining GOair seems to be more embarrassing for an airline.. when you think logically why would a pilot leave from a 77 Aircraft carrier who seems to have a passenger load of 25.7 of that of the market to an airline which has 7 functional aircraft's and a market share of 3%.

Numbers don't lie! If you are defending an airline which owes 8000crs in 4 years to everyone and cant seem to functional in a way to keep employees happy.. there just seems to be something wrong!

About 2 Months back there was a article in Banglore (My beautiful city) which was in detail talking about these same simple facts. If anyone is able to get hold of it.. It would be gr8

BePostive and Fly safe!

[scorpilot]

you seem to be part of KF yourself as you seem to know a lot...I will not dwell on that.

which airline is running smoothly?
who doesnt have debts?
why jet airways pilots wanted to leave for Qatar in droves? ( how jet managed to arm twist them back )
who says we employ 36 in Roster...
but the best is about the " cracks travelling all the way to the rudder:D....from the wing tip to the rudder...:D...some imagination you have!

i rest my case...

[leftseatview]

i think its time to let the titanic rest in peace.
am moving to the "Phoenix" one for all matters KFR.
IMHO a bird name(mythical or otherwise) suits an airline better than a old ships.

[moderate]

Thanks 'Bepositive 1' for that excellent sum up of the latest at KFA. It sure is a lost cause but some believe in miracles and phoenixes and while others prefer to live in denial. For the sake of its many staff, we could only hope that a miracle would happen fast but there's too much that's rotten at the top and the mid range management.....pretty obvious to anyone with a brain.

[bepositive1]

1'st - Just because I have my eyes open and ears to the ground doesn't make me a part of an Airline like that. If I was in India and flying I would never join that airline.
2'nd- I Agree RIP Post.. Thank You Mod.

Cheers Sure hope someday KFA rises like a phoenix Thousands of jobs rest In one spend thrift bosses hands

Be Positive and Fly safe!!