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it.pilot737
22nd Oct 2008, 17:48
What do you think about eng stall on take off on airbus?
It is not a memoty item...it is not on ECAM and it takes time to get the paper cklist and read......How can you deal with it just after the lift off?

see you!!

lomapaseo
22nd Oct 2008, 18:40
I'm surprised that it's not covered in your training materials:confused:

generally you treat it as second order concerns to flying the aircraft first. Then pull back one engine at a time (never grab all throttles) while observing the engine parameters. Depending on the manufacturers experience and recommendations, if the parameters are stable you may advance the throttles and observe. On some engine models the surge may be temporary in nature associated with the specific short time aero conditions, while in other models it may signify a more permament damage to the engine.

it.pilot737
22nd Oct 2008, 18:45
ok but.....if the stall is not stopping, do you put the thr lever back by recall or you call the ck list?

rider of the storm
22nd Oct 2008, 19:13
737 pilot,

If you experience an engine stall after take-off:

A. your immediate action will be to monitor the engines and obviously controlling your aircraft.

B. Once above 400 ft. with flight path fully under control and on PF command (Airbus states that the PIC may start managing the failure below 400 ft. in certain cases if the aircraft and its flight path is under control and he/she deems it necessary to do so). you will identify the correct engine and slowly reduce(or ask the PF to do so) the relevant throttle to idle and select the ignition to cont. relight to protect the good engine (Both actions are memory items). If the stall continues you will now call for/do the engine stall checklist by following the QRH.

C. If the stall has stopped at this stage you will then do your normal after take-off checklist followed by the engine stall checklist.

Hope this helps,

ROTS

OPEN DES
22nd Oct 2008, 20:02
Both actions are memory items

Not according to Airbus Industrie. What is your reference?

Would make a good memory item IMHO though.

Dani
22nd Oct 2008, 20:28
Well, it's not a memory item, but you treat it like an engine failure. So before V1 you stop - above... you know what I mean.

I'm not sure if you mean a complete stall or a stally stall when you start setting TO thrust. To avoid the latter you add a little thrust until N1 stabilizes on both engine, then set TO thrust/FLEX and let the Fadec do their work.

Or do you mean popping, i.e. a series of stalls? Happens but is also clear, you reduce the power.

hth,
Dani

rider of the storm
22nd Oct 2008, 20:35
Open Descend,

Well... I am inexperienced in newer generation Airbusses, but flying the A300-600/A310 series with GE fitted engines, I have used the FCOM and FCTP as references.

I would have guessed that Airbus would have a similar procedure on other series as well, but I guess that is not the case:confused:

ROTS

Mäx Reverse
23rd Oct 2008, 06:20
@ it.pilot737: It would be helpful to specify the airframe in question (i.e. A330) instead of just asking for 'airbus'!

We fly A319/320/321 and don't use the AI FCOMs so I can only refer to our Company OMs. There we have a procedure for Engin Stall. Here it goes:

ENG STALL

* On Ground:
ENG MASTER _ .............. OFF

* In Flight:
THR LEVER _ ...............IDLE
ENG_ Paramters..........CHECKED

If not normal:
ENG MASTER _ ...............OFF

Thats the beginning of the procedure and all the above are memory actions. The remainder according to the QRH.

I'm a bit surprides though tha AI doesn't offer this procedure.

RGDS MAX

FROMAIBTOBOEING
23rd Oct 2008, 10:48
As I see it, an Engine Stall is a ECAM procedure!:sad:

FlightDetent
23rd Oct 2008, 15:22
As I see it, an Engine Stall is a ECAM procedure!:sad:Cheer up! FCOM 3.02.70 p5 (A320 CFM):
"This warining is triggered between for an N2 between 50% and IDLE" My bolding.

FD (the un-real)

SIDSTAR
5th Nov 2008, 04:45
Regardless of a/c type - FLY THE AIRCRAFT first. Get it to a safe altitude (400 common these days) and UNDER CONTROL, then deal with the problem. In most cases reduce thrust and if necessary, shut down the engine, or as stated in NN procedures for your company.

The most common problem seen in simulator training is the crew not following the basics of good airmanship. PF must fly the aircraft and PNF's primary responsibility is to monitor the flying. Carrying out drills/checklists/ECAM/EICAS procedures/ATC comms is all secondary to the monitoring duty. That's why many progressive-thinking companies/manufacturers have changed the PNF title to PM - pilot monitoring. Unfortunately, this thinking hasn't reached Toulouse yet!

She'll fly on one, so get her up to a safe altitude, deal with the essential emergency drills only, at low level, clean up, climb to MSA and then do the rest. It works every time. Oh, and don't forget you have an autopilot.

FlightDirector7
5th Nov 2008, 09:21
hello everyone,

The eng stall ECAM procedure comes about dependant on the FWC (flight warning computer) standard. The ECAM is not generated for H2Ex FWC standards but is generated for H2F1 and H2F3 standards. You guys will have to check with the AME's as to the standard of the FWC on your particular aircrafts. We had a circular regarding engine stalls in our airline which is where i got these FWC standards from.

Your first action in flight for a non-generated ECAM for Eng Stall is thrust lever idle and to monitor the parameters, treat it as an engine fail until recovery. As for the memory items i would imagine including this as a memory item would be appropriate however having said that with airbus, it could be a never ending list for memory items. In our company we've got crew incapacitation as the 8th memory item and find it appropriate to have ENG TAILPIPE FIRE as one as well, i dont know about you guys.

Cheers

JABBARA
5th Nov 2008, 10:05
Hi pilot 737,

I asked the same question to my self about one year before when I started to fly with Airbus. I also replied myself. Here is the below how I set my mind:

-Not enough technology yet to tell apart an "engine stall" with either normally running engine or fully failed engine. That`s why no ECAM action designed.

- I will not be surprized or shocked with engine noise, bang, vibration or other extreemly distracting factors of which never can be imitated in any simulator. In another word, these distracting factors will be much worse than what we felt or heard in the simulator. But I will be sure the airplane is still flyable.

-In my 25 years flying carrier, all engine stall procedures are same: "retard the engine till it recover." Does not matter which engine you are flying, thermodynamic laws work same.

- Once I retarded the TLA below 5 degrees, THRUST MCT will flash on FMA

-After these initial action as time permits I will refer to QRH.


We all know in some cases, like immmediately after takeoff, it is impossible or not practical or takes too long time to refer the paper procedures. I am the one who will save my soul. It does not matter whether I tried to apply QRH procedure correctly after crashing the plane.

Henry VIII
5th Nov 2008, 10:35
all engine stall procedures are same: "retard the engine till it recover." Does not matter which engine you are flying, thermodynamic laws work same.

- Once I retarded the TLA below 5 degrees, THRUST MCT will flash on FMA

-After these initial action as time permits I will refer to QRH.Quote 100% JABBARA.