GF Pilots' Meeting 22 Oct (threads merged)

[Mow]

What is it expected from this meeting? Are we going to see magics? :confused:

However, to know that, we have to define what is it magic for GF?

Magic for GF is, if Mr. COO comes tomorrow with the following – God forbidden –:

• A plan of how getting out of this chaotic situation; which we are in now.
• A plan for getting the right number of workforce for the coming 3 years. I must be dreaming!! Ok, just a plan for the 3 coming months.
• A plan for giving the pilots their quality life back; which was promised by Mr. Nafs’ Quality Package last year!!
• A communication plan, communication with their pilots; which apparently they are not aware of. As occasionally, they ruin our lives without us being informed even.

I expect nothing of that, as I don’t expect that they see if we have any problems anyway. For them living in their golden offices, seeing us just another staff number, they are not recognizing human side of us.

Mother of problems: is that they don’t see that there is any problem. :ugh:

Anyone can update me on the meeting?

Have a safe flight management.

[parabellum]

"GF Pilots' Meeting... Expectation" If it is anything like pilot's meetings elsewhere you can expect to hear a lot of people talking and no one listening!

[obsidian]

lets see what i want:
1,58 days leave! (42+16days public holidays)
2,better rosters and block distribution...
3,leave tickets on which i dont get bumped off on..
4,firm upgrades f or j on those tickets..
5,monthly requests!
6,proper housing allowance according to todays market not 10years ago!
7,schooling fees to be looked at again!
8,a proper uniform section that actually provides well tailored uniforms and i dont have to go there six times to collect my pants which were ordered 6 months ago!
9,again a better hr division,which looks at everyones needs..
10,less turnarounds like ccu and hyd and nightstops in proper hotels! not mosquito and roach ridden ****holes...

please feel free to add!:E

[Che Guevara]

It seems to me that if can't cover the predicted flights with the present number of crew, then we have too many flights...is this really so difficult or am I being too simplistic. Maybe, just maybe we need to cut back on frequencies etc. until we have enough pilots...what is so difficult with that. This is not rocket science is it? ....maybe it is.

Expectations, not much....lots of 'we are working on that' and thanks for helping out in these difficult times....well whose fault is this, the pilots....
Cut the frequencies and take the opportunity to regain the pilots confidence and last but not least...do something with the state of the aircraft furnishings while you have the time.....

[obsidian]

how was the road show?

[Che Guevara]

Thought we would have heard something by now....almost 4 hours and nothing.:sad:

Not good

[obsidian]

was there,a lot of points mentioned but the usual response from management..its in the pipeline or on the way or in the near future..
no positve or shall i say immediate actions which are gonna be taken...
just wondered what every one else thought of the whole thing...
a letter will be forwarded to management but in the meantime after a serious discussion with the boys the ban still applies!

[brassplate]

the food was good.

[brick in the wall]

For gods sake obsIDIOT what do you want out of this.We thought it was quite positive and heading in the right direction.You were not even there,so......!!.and yes Brassplate the food was good.I have a feeling that maybe you are not even a pilot but just another t*****r with a chip.

[brick in the wall]

Just a thought obsIDIOT....MAYBE you could get your mummy to buy you a pilots outfit for christmas.

[migrane]

why are so upset brick.....there is no need for such words,it seems that you the one who could be management otherwise why would you be so pissed off...obsidian didn't really say anything wrong :=

[brick in the wall]

Nope not management,just someone who is worried about their future and not a little worried that people like obsidiot etc.could be doing a lot to de-stabilise gulfair and therefore my future.I like the feeling of knowing that there will be money in the bank at the end of the month and that my bills will be paid.Also,why dont you read other posts from other airlines and then you will see that life is not any better any where else,especially not in Europe right now.So as far as this work to rule is concerned,I AM OUT.

[ironbutt57]

As I thought DEC's are not in the current plan...the unfortunate side effect of this "campaign" has been the cancelling of sim training for folks joining the 320 fleet, therefore delaying further fleet transfers and command upgrades..a mistake was made at some point when recruitment was "frozen" and now it's time to pay the piper...and we all know who pays in the end don't we..it's always the crews..

[Mow]

If one guy can do so much damage to an organization then this guy has to be our CEO. But attacking obsidian because he just expressed himself in an open free forum, and making out of it a big issue, that is ridiculous. Why are we here anyway? To hear what we want!! Or to read other peoples mind and ideas.

I was not there in the meeting. And appreciate if anybody tells us more, about things been discussed, or argued. That will be more interesting. ;)

[brassplate]

the food was really good....puts aeroplane food to shame. well done bas catering.:ok:

[brassplate]

i do, however, agree with the ib57.
with all these daysoff bans, they're having to pull pilots from training and the fleet office.
this will slow things down with progressions, upgrades etc. way too early to tell but i dare say it may be the prelude to looking at decs!!
don't get me wrong, i am all for making a statement and the flying on daysoff bans is our most effective one.
as to whether it's putting pressure on the real culprits of this fiasco, ie banana face, aa and bn, i'm afraid it's hardly made a dent.
no one at the meeting directed blame in these trios' direction at all.
i guess we continue with the status quo until they feel it.

[Panama Jack]

and we all know who pays in the end don't we..it's always the crews..

Of course, it is normally this way in corporations. Somebody must pay for Management's mistakes! :ouch:

[Chuck Y]

brick in the wall, a little tense there boy! Whats getting you all riled up? The guys are just trying to give their point of view. If they thought it was a waste of time, full of hot air BS meeting then thats their business & if you are brown-nosing for a quick upgrade thats also totally up to you.
Myself, I am the eternal GF optimist(dont ask why?) & I think that things will really get better(one day). Lets just hope we are all around to enjoy the hard work that we have put into this airline until then I will just immerse myself in my hobbies & forget about all the idiots that are f***ing this company from a million different angles.

[buba]

could'nt make the interveiw but a mate of mine who went was'nt impressed

[brassplate]

most from airlines in western countries are ever impressed. it wears on to you. better than flying props back home, buddy.

[MaffiFaloos]

It would seem the other thread on this topic has been taken over by the "Throw my dolly out of the pram brigade"

For the benefit of those who were working could somebody give us a synopsis of proceedings.

Many thanks

[vomit comet]

hmmm brickhead! smells like management! enjoy flyin your day off thats if the captains let u touch the joystick...:}

[buba]

well did'nt get much feedback, a freind of mine who attended told me there were about 25 pilot all in all. it was breif and he could'nt get much of the issues through.
ps. noticed alot of gf threads scattered around, would be nice if they all merge under a common interest to ease trackin. thanks

[Mephistopheles]

No substance at the meeting just promises of things being "in the pipeline" but when asked about a time frame for any of the projects "in the pipline" to come to completion the answer was just a baffled look. So I guess all the solutions we were hoping to hear about have not even entered the "pipeline". So guys don't hold your breathe since nothing much will happen for the foreseeable future. Back to square one.

[keep_dreaming]

Dear all;

Be advised that the yesterday (22/11/2008 ) meeting unfortunately DID NOT adress most of pilots debated topics.............Therefore if you like , please continue your usual cooperation........

myself and alot of my dear friends.....still NO DAYS OFF FLYING...........:=:=:=

[Cam32]

The guy that initially upset all the pilots by trying to whisk away the 2 days travel unnoticed should pay. The cost of the cancelled flights in dollars (BHD) and customer dissatisfaction are on his head. :=

I would like to see the training staff back to their primary jobs, training some new pilots. This will give us all relief.

Maybe it does mean reducing the flights for a month or so.

My phone is still in the silent mode on my days off (for this year anyway)

It is up to the individual, but selling your leave if you work on an 'off day' does not help a bit. At least claim it back. Don't let the company get used to using your cheap labour again.:ouch:

[Chuck Y]

To fly or not to fly that is the question!
Me, I think I will continue enjoying my days off, since my flying on my days off will continue to be "in the pipeline" until I see something positive & tangible from the management.

[Mow]

Gentlemen, the pilots meeting didn’t meet the minimum requirement of individual requests, neither the campaign participant’s requests. :ouch:

The current management lost their forecasting tools totally, without us approaching them once more; they couldn’t address any of pilot’s concerns. Frankly, I think their only tool might be this forum; which doesn’t meet the standard of any serious organization.

It was as expected. No serious plan was setup, neither planned for solving out the current situation. The meeting was floating around non sense demands because of two basic reasons:
• The absence of any management plans, and
• The absence of the campaign demands.

Obviously, our campaign has to go on for some more time, to have its effect on the new roster line; which I doubt, as the planning people are going around the shortage, by many other means. In my opinion, is that our campaign might lose its impact and other important elements.

It is this time that we have to stick to each other more, and persist any temptation or weakness. :cool:

Therefore, I urge you all to stick to the No Day Off flying campaign, until having the corrective move from our team. :ok:

[brassplate]

there was a lot of bandaid solutions given by cc. but none that address the core issues of pilots lives getting screwed. even with these bandaid solutions, the catch phrase of the day was....


IT'S IN THE PIPELINE

the two w@nkers banana and antoine and those pulling their strings are still out there, smugly and unapologetically enjoying their lives while ours are screwed up by lack of sleep, lack of quality aircraft, lack of quality family time, lack of morale, lack of professional support, lack lack lack lack.

my next step will be to ensure that at least half my sick days are used.

[ironbutt57]

Ops is in "upset recovery" mode...no time to think about why the upset happened..perform the recovery and sort out the reasons later...think we all know why already..and yes we are paying for it as crews..like somebody mentioned, I also have a permanent "roster changes" caption on my aims..

One solution to the problem is debatable, and unpalatable to many here on the forum.."fly the mission and sort out the b.s. later"..the other solution is to make it worthwhile for the crews to rise to the occasion (= MO' MONEY for days off)

But the problem will not go away until the folks in the training pipeline can get trained up... simple as that..

The errors of others must be mitigated...

[vomit comet]

the training department is important,but the most important problem is overlooked,how to retain your pilots! not work for a few years and leave for another airline...
we had good pilots,trainers,crew..etc they left and more will leave in the future..why cant the management adapt to todays continously changing aviation market?!?
if they had been doing that since day one we wouldnt be in this state..

[ironbutt57]

The two primary factors stated by all who left that I spoke to:

1) Housing..
2) Schooling..

further down the list was:

3) Career progression

not mentioned...

4) Shiny airplanes

solution #1...hire "family men" looking to settle into the relatively relaxed Bahrain lifestyle...oops! housing expensive and no seats for the kiddies in school..

solution #2 hire young folks single, no expenses housing readily available..no school headaches..oops..shiny airplanes and flash destinations down the road once the GF hours are in the logbook..

So..it's time for GF to be creative and have some reasons for people to NOT want to go down the gulf..
preferential bidding system..think AA wanted that as of last March...someone didn't want to pay for it..

why is the regulatory minimum of 8 days off percieved to be the max?

the current callout pay/sell leave be with leave retained..
not demands mind you, but ideas..anybody got some more??

[brassplate]

well they either take one or the other.
or....ask us all to work for love.

hey that's what i'll say to someone who works on their day off.
Working for love again?

[ironbutt57]

Maybe they could generate a little cupid symbol on our aims when they arbitrarily take a day off,

[buba]

ya a little cupid with a knocked arrow against the bowstring..haaa haa, hey the song of marley..'one love' springs to mind..haa haa

[downNOgreens]

I'm a lover, not a fighter. But in this case, I will not be going against the grain.

[Mephistopheles]

Holy cow they really opened the infamous "pipeline" full bore & they don't hold back with the BIG news. Wowwaaaaweeeewah!!! Plastic folders the keep all the paperwork in!!! Gonna have a hard time keeping my mind on my job tonight with all dreams of improvements & stuff. Whats next? Good to see that they take us so seriously.

[Che Guevara]

Holy cow they really opened the infamous "pipeline"
Is the cow 'holy' here too?;)

[Pixie Queen]

Although OFF topic, where might I receive/find some information on the Gulf Air interview process? I would like to join and help allieviate some of the stress that you guys are exhibiting here on this thread. Some, if not all could use a few days off. Afterall, thats what flying is all about for me, having time away from it all to relax and enjoy the income. You can NOT take it with you 6 feet under!


Cheers :ok:

[Che Guevara]

USAPAScabs
You are so right, we are a all bit stressed and could do with a break...

Got a 320 rating? Go to the head of the class. At the moment they are getting type rated F/Os from what I hear, if this dries up, then they will look at non-typed.

Re. the interview do a quick search, there was a lot of info floating around the forum a month or so ago.

Chao

[Pixie Queen]

Thanks for the response. I guess they're not looking for anyone with: 10,000+ hours, A320 PIC type (plus2others), Military time, Engineer time and Corporate Jet time. Wazza guy gotta do around here ???? :ugh: