Help to identify these aircraft photos

[Eviand]

:confused:Hi, I'm a newbie hoping that someone would be able to identify the aircraft in the attached photos. I'm not entirely sure of the exact date these photos were taken, but could be anywhere in the timeframe of late 40's to the early 60's. Any additional information would be much appreciated.

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp230/Eviand/kees2.jpg
http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp230/Eviand/kees1.jpg

[Malcolm G O Payne]

I.n the foreground is a Bristol Freighter and behind is an Avro York. The location is perhaps Lydd and the Freighter would be used on a car ferry to Deauville

[Seloco]

I think it's not so much Lydd as Tempelhof....

[G-ARZG]

Looks like Berlin Tempelhof ??
(not least because of the inscription on the freight door?)

[renfrew]

In 1948/9 there were around 20 British airlines involved in the Berlin airlift.
Air Charter was Freddie Laker's company.
The photo was probably taken at Gatow or one of the West German airfields supporting the airlift.

[Background Noise]

Does look very much like Templehof.

[norwich]

Hi Eviand, And welcome to the forum ! I am going to suggest that your photos are not from 'The Berlin Airlift' but from the immediate period following, when national airlines were not allowed to fly into Berlin ? During that period Air Charter (who were not involved in the airlift) was heavily involved flying charters for British airlines !
A quote from 'The Berlin Boys'

Air Charter Ltd. London operated from 1951 until the end of 1959 scheduled cargo flights to Hamburg and Hanover, at which up to 70 flights a week were realize. Lots of cargo and passenger charters were operated too. From 1957 to 1959 they operated scheduled passenger flights on behalf of BEA - British European Airways (http://www.planeboys.de/thf/airlines/Airlines%20B/british%20european%20airways/british%20european%20airways.htm) on the internal german route network. At the end of June 1960 Air Charter merged with several other airlines into British United Airways (http://www.planeboys.de/thf/airlines/Airlines%20B/british%20united%20airways/british%20united%20airways.htm).

And a photo below from the same source, on approach to Templehof, note the colour scheme, and the fact that this aircraft did not take part in the airlift, it's registration makes it slightly too new !

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/g-amlp.jpg

[arem]

The front aircraft is an Air Charter Frightener, the one behind I think is a Skyways Avro York - I would think the picture was taken in the mid 50's at one of the German airfields - could be Templehof but possibly Hannover or Hamburg. Air Charter flew Tudors on the Berlin operation and possibly DC-4's

My father flew the Yorks - and Hermes - with Skyways from 1955 including the Berlin run. I have a few pictures he took, I think, in Hannover at that time but the tower in the pictures is not that in your picture - I really must figure out how to get pictures onto this site!!

[norwich]

arem, I would like to see your fathers photo's, being a Skyways / York fanatic ! Have you tried photobucket ? I find it very easy now, having overcome the first few 'not knowing what to do' things !
Back to the photo's above, I first thought the York was from Skyways, but looking at the logo / badge behind the cockpit, compare with the Bristol 170's logo, the majority of the larger 'arrow' is pointing aft as the Air Charter logo, whilst on Skyways aircraft the larger 'arrow' in their logo pointed forward ? see my photo below of Skyways York (via photobucket). Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/old%20props/hey2.jpg

[Eviand]

Thanks for the much appreciated information with regard to AIR CHARTER Ltd, LONDON. My second attached photo shows my Grandfather standing outside one of their planes. I am endeavouring to research his post war flying history. Who or where would you suggest I contact inorder to obtain dates of his employment with Air Charter Ltd?

My Grandfather, Cornelis A Ligtenstein was a Dutchmen who served in the RAF during World War II. He was a pupil pilot when war broke out in Holland in May 1940. At the end of the same month he reached England through Belgium and France. In August 1941 he seems to have joined the Royal Netherlands Naval Air Service as a mechanic. This was short lived and in 1942 he was attached to the RAF Volunteer Reserve (RAF VR) as a pupil pilot. He was transferred to Canada to train and he received his RAF wings in April 1943. He returned to England to complete further training and in January 1945 he joined No.33 Squadron as a Warrant Officer. This unit was then equipped with Hawker Tempest and later Spitfire fighter aircraft. In March 1945 he was shot down over Germany, wounded and taken to the prison camp Stalag XIb.
He flew with KLM from March 1947 to September 1947. He devorced my Grandmother in 1954. I understand he had started his own airline business, flying between The Netherlands, Berlin and the Channel islands (charter flights) but ceased by the end of the fifties. In this period he met and married for the second time in Jersey, a woman from Canada. In the early sixties they later emigrated to South Africa and later moved to Zimbabwe (Rhodesie).

[oldshuck]

Hello norwich, I was just wondering if you have any idea where the York photo was taken ?

[merlinxx]

Could be Northolt with the BOAC Bedford outside the hangar, the hangars also look like Northolt. Otherwise could be 'Lashup' again hangars look familiar.

[arem]

Could be what were known as the Eagle hangars at LHR or could be Stansted which was where Skyways were based. One of my early abiding memories was walking through the hangars at STN as a lad of about 8 or 9 was the smell of dope and oil - aah magic.

Another memory was at LHR after a days spotting with a mate and his uncle, filling up with petrol at the old filling station at Hatton cross and after a day of Darts and early jets was to hear the unmistakable sound of Merlins as a Skyways York came thundering past on finals for 27L - magic - pure magic

Norwich - I shall have a look at photobucket!

[Panop]

Could be Northolt with the BOAC Bedford outside the hangar, the hangars also look like Northolt.Did BOAC use Northolt? I always thought they were Heathrow based from 1946 and BEA were at Northolt until 1952. Those hangars do look suspiciously like the old LHR BOAC hangars (later British Eagle's) but then WW2 ex RAF hangars often tend to look similar so I am by no means certain. BOAC Bedford vans would not have been frequent at Lasham I wouldn't have thought. The van in the picture is a Bedford CA model which was not produced until 1952 so we are probably looking at mid to late 1950s.

[MerlinV8]

Easy, the first one is a Bristol freighter, NZAF had a whole fleet and two sat outside my flying school, NZ troops were even flown to Vietnam in them!

Not sure about the second (Top) one? although the wings, wheels and engines look very similiar to the famous Lancastor bombers so there might be a connection there?

[oldshuck]

I worked for ATL at Stansted in the sixties that was the reason I asked,
it looked a bit familiar if it was Stansted it was just up from ATL Hanger 1,
but at around this time many airfields looked very much alike hangar wise

[cdeavionics]

I think they were Hangars 5 and 6 at LHR. I did a 3-month stint c.1957 at the Test Equipment design/construction workshop at the rear of,and between, these hangars during my BOAC apprenticeship.

[norwich]

Well we are straying from the point of this thread ! No change there !
The Skyways York photo ? could well be as cdeavionics said, hangar 5 & 6 at LHR, LAP in those glorious days ! as I have a photo of Yorks outside a hangar with a large 6 on the door, and a constallation inside what looks like the same hangar ?
Old Shuck, I think we had a very similar discussion about another York subject a few days ago, or am I dreaming ? Keith.

[gas path]

I'd agree with cdeavionics. They look like the hangars 5 and 6 (later renamed TBF) at LHR they would have been opposite what is now TBK.
There were Skyways aircraft used by BOAC as I can vaguely remember some of the engineers who were subcontracted to look after them.
They had 'railway lines' laid into the hangar and the a/c were pulled in sideways. (parts of the tracks can still be seen!).
In fact upto the late 70's there were still a couple of Merlins stored in one of extensions on the side of the hangar on the left.:8

[norwich]

gas path, you have answered a question I have had for a long time, how do they do that ? I have looked at the tracks and always thought 'no' !!!!
We live and learn ! Keith.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/keithnewsome/old%20props/nup.jpg

[Yamagata ken]

No apologies for drifting.

Cornelis A Ligtenstein

That's a name to die for. With that name, I'd have been Ruler of the Universe

[oldshuck]

No you are not dreaming Keith, I must have a thing about the York and Stansted

[MerlinV8]

Everyone will get this one, its a Constalation.....

[bintherdunthat]

Concerning the Connie in the hangar, one can only hope there wasn't three more aircraft in the registration series.;)

[AvroLincoln]

G-ANUS was never allocated!

[jabberwok]

G-ANUS was never allocated!

But G-ARSE was.. :}

[gibbs]

How do you get a Connie, that way into the hangar ? I appreciate there might be some room towards the right hand side, but it does seem a tad tight :ooh:

[PaperTiger]

But G-ARSE wasNo. Any photographic evidence you may have seen was the result of pranks inflicted on G-ARSF, G-ARSI or G-ARSL. The owners of Dove 'RSI got fed up with this and re-registered it G-ARFZ.

[PaperTiger]

How do you get a Connie, that way into the hangar ?Take a good long run at it ?

[henry crun]

gibbs: gas path told you how it was done in his #19 post.

[norwich]

Once again straying from the origin of this thread, regarding my pic in post 20, yes there are railway type tracks for the main undercarriage, but none for the nose wheel ? So how did they do that ? Trolley jack ? always remember we are talking 1960's technology here !
Any more pics of Skyways Yorks, Constallations, Hermes etc out there you would like to post ?????

Keith Newsome (Yorkist, should that be Yorkie ? )

[henry crun]

Perhaps the nosewheel turned through 90 degrees, or as you suggest, a small low trolley like those ones car mechanics lay on.

[arem]

Here is one of a Skyways York - I think at Hannover

http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo87/arem747/G-AGNDAvroYork.jpg

[arem]

and another - same aircraft

http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo87/arem747/G-AGNDAvroYorkSkyways.jpg

[norwich]

arem, Quality photos, Thank you for sharing those with us, first of many ???? Good to see you have mastered photobucket ! Keith.

[avionic type]

2 trolleys with small railway type wheels [built for the job ]on the rail track spaced outside of the hanger at the correct width of the main oleos and joined together with an ajustable rod and a smaller trolly with hand steering for the nose leg a/c towed by tractor onto trollies , tractor would connect to inner main trolly and the whole thing pulled sideways into hanger .In hangers 2,3,and 4 at LHR there was room for 2 a/c with their noses in opposite directions pulled in the opposite doors , a tight fit but it worked. I can't remember if we changed engines in the hangers like that most were done with the only the a/c with only the wing and engine 1//2 in the hanger not on the trolleys .this was back in around 1948[Elf and Safety would have had a field day]

[norwich]

Avionic type, Thank you for that information, so pleased your memory is that good !
Another piece of the jigsaw solved !

Keith.

[avionic type]

Though I was only a 17 year old electrical improver with B.O.A.C at the time I remember it well. Don't ask me what I was doing last Thursday:confused::confused:
glad to be of help.

[avionic type]

A little more info only Connies were put in that way the other a/c of the day ie Yorks, Lancastrians, Haltons, and Dakotas could be pulled in the Hangers tail first and worked on normally and jogging the old brain box only the engines on the Connies near opendoor had any chance of being changed due to the lack of overhead cranes [the roof couldn't support it]and the the old Cyclone was a heavy lump of metal ] and Coles cranes were used .as I said I don't remember any engines changes when they were fully in the hanger.