Unit to Squadron?

[Lord Harry Flashman]

Hello All,

I've been asked (By my Boss) to find out how an RAF Unit becomes an RAF Squadron. I've heard quite a lot of rumours about being established for over 25 years but nothing concrete. I would like to know the criteria that need to be satisfied to upgrade to squadron status. Does anyone know where to look or who to ask about this?

Many thanks for your help.

LHF

[Roadster280]

Facetious answer one with a grain of truth - Be an Army or Naval Sqn first - like all the original RFC and RNAS ones were. No 25 year history.

Facetious answer two with a grain of truth - Be formed in wartime. No 25 year history necessary.

Easy answer - disband and reform as a previously disbanded squadron. Have CO staff the justification up the CoC.

Danger - you may end up like the USAF - "465 Supply Chain Management Squadron".

Possible Waltism if an SU - "244 Signal Squadron". The Army has lots of these, and some of the numberplates are in both services.

[Archimedes]

Air Historical Branch (now at Northolt) is probably as good a place as any to start. The award of a squadron numberplate has to be made in accordance with the policy on numberplates - the AHB is the 'guardian' of this.

It will depend, to an extent, on what your unit is, I would have thought - although bits of the policy have been relaxed (hence the award of numberplates to FTS, something which was a big no-no previously), if your unit isn't flying something, then the award of a numberplate held by a flying squadron could be problematic.

IIRC, some time in the 1990s, the numberplate of one reserve squadron was withdrawn when its function did not involve it having a flying role - no aircraft assigned, or borrowed from other units (was it the 55 Sqn 'plate? I forget).

[The Helpful Stacker]

It may be easier to take-up a squadron number plate from a squadron that previous did a similar role than get a shiny new one. 5001 (Airfield Support) Squadron did this.

Previously they were known MESF (I think) and because their main role is airfield support (setting up Rubb hangers and PAAG) they took up one of the old 5xxx series squadron numbers that were assigned to RAF airfield construction squadrons.

You'll probably find no matter how unusual your units activities there is a historic equivalent with their own numberplate laid up somewhere.

[Pontius Navigator]

It will depend, to an extent, on what your unit is, I would have thought - although bits of the policy have been relaxed (hence the award of numberplates to FTS, something which was a big no-no previously), if your unit isn't flying something, then the award of a numberplate held by a flying squadron could be problematic.

Even if it had no wheels and would never land in one piece.

Bloodhound and Thor missiles were brigaded in squadrons. As THS said, a loose role association would help.

[Archimedes]

Even if it had no wheels and would never land in one piece.

For a fleeting moment, I thought you were describing the Swift F1 there, PN...

[Mr C Hinecap]

Try and find some historical unit that you can link to with something credible - whether this is taking an old crest, similar role during wartime etc. Speaking to the AHB is essential. Then comes the extensive staff work to push it up through the high-paid help at HQ Air who would them push it up to the AFB. It is no small undertaking - I've recently seen my management do this for a couple of sub-units and I'd not want to do that myself!

[Lord Harry Flashman]

Thanks All for the advice I will have a chat with AHB.

LHF

[Occasional Aviator]

The award of a squadron number is an Air Force Board decision. I would start at HQ Air, but I would expect that it will be on the desk of someone in the Directorate of Air Staff (DAS) in MoD.

Also, to be picky, a 'Unit' in the RAF is a station - as compared to a ship in the RN or a Regt/Bn in the Army - Units have Commanding Officers (not OCs) and therefore a particular legal status. That's why Lt Cols in command in the Army get a driver and a Vectra, whereas Wg Cdr Sqn Cdrs get a self-drive Corsa (driver and Vectra being for COs).

[Magic Mushroom]

Also, to be picky, a 'Unit' in the RAF is a station - as compared to a ship in the RN or a Regt/Bn in the Army - Units have Commanding Officers (not OCs) and therefore a particular legal status.

I'm not sure that you're correct with that OA. Modern Operational Evaluation Units (OEU) and in the past larger numbers of Operational Training and Conversion Units (OTU/OCU) (not to mention numerous less well known organisations such as OACTU) are not stations. Indeed, many OEUs also hold reserve sqn status.;)

Regards,
MM

[MAINJAFAD]

90 Signals Unit has a CO (Group Captain rank) and it is not a station.

[flyboy007]

Suggest telling your boss it's now irrelevant and no-one cares. Put it in an email perhaps.
One would almost think there aren't better things to be doing!

[thunderbird7]

I remember a certain 'OC' up north who had a self drive metro as well as a cavalier and a driver. Unfortunately he took the self drive option at a dining in night once. Shame he didnt go for the driver option that night really as the back end of the metro might still be in one piece and the rose beds not flattened after some post supper reversing went a bit crook. :8

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

;)

Lord Harry Flashman

Could we have the name of the unit in question please ?

[Lord Harry Flashman]

I'm afraid that i cannot answer that question. This is just a low profile trawl for info at the moment and my powers that be don't want anyone getting the wrong idea or jumping to conclusions etc. Sorry.

LHF

[Occasional Aviator]

MM,

I take your point, and I was generalising. What I should have said was that a unit (in terms of the legal status of 'Unit Command', ie having a CO) in the RAF is NORMALLY a station. Thus OC of an OCU isn't technically a unit commander (and therefore the OCU isn't a 'unit' in the strict legal sense - despite being called one), whereas CO 90SU is - and it doesn't matter what the rank of the commander is, it's about being a CO rather than an OC. Admin types will be able to provide more detail.

Pedantic, I know, but I've worked with the Army enouogh to know how much it matters to them.

[Mr. Rotorvator]

MM,

Please check your PMs.

Thanks, Mr. R