LHR Eagle DC-6

[robmack]

Do any of you gentlemen know anything about proposed visit of G-APSA on Nov 7th to LHR, particulary as to what time?

[xraydice]

Wow ! Thanks for the heads up on that , a little research is in order for the timing. I think 7/11 is HB's birthday IIRC, half minded to fly down to see the Ex boss if he is attending.

[captain_flynn]

Interesting! I dont know anything about that so will keep my eye on this topic.

[bean]

British Eagle ceased operations at midnight on 6th November 1968. This will almost certainly be a commemorative flight.

[T-21]

The DC-6 did a late morning approach to Cranfield today, crew training ? I hung out of the upstairs window listening to that engine sound ! a low rumble.

[captain_flynn]

Oh really? I fly with bonus aviation at cranfield. If I had known the DC6 would be flying an approach I would of gone over there today!

[scudpilot]

I spent a day and half guarding a A310 tanker which was parked next to this gorgeous aircraft at Farnborough this year.. stunning...:ok:

[Pressure Carb]

The last British Eagle commercial flight was on 7 November 1968 (after the administrators had moved in). The flight was from Rotterdam to Heathrow. I think there is a clue on the Schedule page of the following website:

The Six (http://www.thedc6.com)

[Seloco]

AND she's scheduled into LCY later in the year; that should be worth watching!

[Groundloop]

She was at LCY earlier this year in July at their weekend Fun Day or whatever they called it.

Photos: Douglas DC-6A Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/British-Eagle-International/Douglas-DC-6A/1371689/L/&tbl=photo_info&photo_nr=1&sok=WHERE__%28aircraft_generic_%3D_%27Douglas_DC-6_%28C-118ESCSLASHR6DESCSLASHLiftmaster%29%27%29_AND_%28place_%3D_% 27London_-_City_%28LCY_ESCSLASH_EGLC%29%27%29_&sort=_order_by_photo_id_DESC_&prev_id=&next_id=NEXTID)

[GBALU53]

She will rattle a few tower block windows when on the approach if Heathrow is landing on the westerly runways?
Will the modern types give way to an old lady on approach?
Good to read she is wanted at a number of venues still.
She looked FAB at London City after the boy scouts had cleaned her up.:ok:
She might bring a tear or two to the ex British Eagle staff that must be invited to see her on the 7th.
When was the last DC6 flight into Heathrow?:ok:

[bigal1941]

How about KAR AIR Swingtale Helsinki bound late 70's Regards Alan

[Pressure Carb]

Sometime in the 1990s, G-SIXC or even G-APSA herself. From Coventry, to somewhere else.

[DILLIGAFF]

I have some pics somewhere of PSA taken in the 90s starting up on old stand 319 in cargo, taxiing out and departing on 09L. At the time my office overlooked the stand and we used to get some interesting aircraft park there, AN12s and IL76s Heavylift Belslows etc.
D

[WHBM]

The last scheduled DC6 at Heathrow was indeed the Kar-Air cargo flight which operated Helsinki-Heathrow-Manchester-Helsinki a few times a week up to 1981, coming through early in the morning. However the Air Atlantique pair appeared spasmodically from when they were acquired in the mid-1980s up until quite recent times.

Last DC6 passenger flight is more of a challenge.

[pax britanica]

Although I moved away in 1977 the Kar-Air swing tail used to depart most weekday mornings at around 0700 and by that time was about the last you could here of the heavy pistons at LHR . As I grew up close to the airport in late 50s and 60s it was a very very distinctive and emotive noise, ona quiet mrning, and 070 was a quieter time then than now , it took some time for the noise to fade away too. Being a nostalgic sort I was thrilled to get to Blackbushe earleir ths year to see and hear the Eagle 6 arrive and depart.

As to the last passenger DC6 at LHR there were Martinair and SAM ( an Alitalia offshoot ) still running in the 60s and I think one of the two Icelandic airlines used pax 6s pretty late.
These must have also been close to the last pax heavy pistons at Heathrow s well since they were reliable and relatively economic aircraft they probably outlasted all the different Constellation variants and the DC7s. Possibly a DC3 from Cambrian or someone might be a contender but it must have been a very long time ago now that anyone walked up the steps (not sure props and airbridges mix) of big radial engined airliner at Heathrow
PB

[robmack]

According to their website, arr is 1405 pm Friday the 7th -hopefully on 27L

[Hartington]

I have to be in the London area on Saturday anyway so I'm going to travel up from Somerset on Thursday so I can see the old girl. I'll keep watching their website to check for changes but if anyone hears anything that might change the 1405 scheduled arrival time can they please post it? It's a long way to travel only to miss her if she changes her mind!

[trident3A]

Forecasts suggest Westerlies so fingers crossed!

[411A]

Good quality airbourne photos would certainly be appreciated by old time DC-6 pilots....especially yours truly.:ok:

[Pressure Carb]

Bad news guys: apparently BAA have withdrawn the slots, citing that BAA management are concerned the DC-6 would disrupt operations. Expect a statement on the DC-6 website soon.

:sad:

[Avman]

:hmm: Quite OK to disrupt operations for several days with their disastrous opening of T5 though. What a bunch of :mad::mad::mad::mad:ers!

[x933]

I'm sure George Dubya's recent visit caused more disruption...

[trident3A]

From the website...such a shame :{

With great regret we must announce that we are no longer able to visit Heathrow this Friday, 7 November. We realise that this will be a bitter disappointment to many people.

Operation into London Heathrow, in common with many large airports, requires the allocation of a slot for each movement. Slots for our intended operation were allocated to us last week, at which point we confirmed with our supporters that we would be making the journey. Yesterday, however, we were advised by a representative of BAA, the airport operator, that these slots were to be withdrawn because they were concerned that the operation of the DC6 at Heathrow was potentially disruptive to normal operations. In the course of several commercial charters into Heathrow in recent years, and two previous commemorative flights (including one for BAA), our experience has been that the DC6 does not cause any inconvenience. Moreover, we were able to demonstrate to the relevant ATC unit that the normal approach speeds and operating procedures of this Public Transport certified airliner were in line with current standards and would require no special treatment. We have had the great pleasure over recent years to visit each of the other capital airports in Europe. Regrettably, this busy international airport felt unable, at the eleventh hour, to agree to our visit.

Our flight this Friday was intended to commemorate the last commercial flight, exactly forty years ago, of a British Eagle aircraft on exactly the same route from Rotterdam to Heathrow. The captain of that original flight was to join us. We had hoped that this would be an uplifting event in these turbulent times, to remind people that flying can still be a fun and romantic endeavour. Unfortunately it appears that commercial priorities, or perhaps a misunderstanding of the nature of the DC6, has caused BAA to decide otherwise. We are tremendously grateful to our handling agent at Heathrow, Signature Flight Support, who generously agreed to sponsor our ground arrangements, and to members of the BAA team who arranged that our landing fees would be waived.

The aircraft will return directly from Rotterdam to Coventry within the next few days. We will publish the times accordingly. This will conclude public flying for this season as the aircraft enters scheduled maintenance on 23 November.

We look forward to an exciting new season in 2009 and to meeting more of you throughout next year.

[Skipness One Echo]

What do you expect from a bunch of retail managers with no avaition know how. The DC6 is just as capable as the KLM F50 on finals. Morons.

[foxile]

It seems commercial priorities are the most important thing in life, to those at BAA towers at least.

Maybe it was because some decent person decided to waive the landing fees. Someone higher up was clearly worried about the effect of this on the bottom line and the adverse reaction to the share price :}. Sad lot really.

Shame, would have been something to see after all these years.

[Stand 22]

The DC6 is just as capable as the KLM F50 on finals

And more so. The DC-6 will match the A321 with ease.

Shame on BAA. National embarrassment just about sums it up perfectly!

[Avman]

I hope that media members of PPRuNe will come down hard on the BAA person(s) responsible for this totally senseless decision. Just unbelievable. :ugh:

[xraydice]

In a round about way ,its history repeating its self for Eagle. last time it was BOAC and HMG wielding the "shaft".

[biddedout]

It must be time for the BAA to be introduced to another delightful old lady of the skies, this time from the Bruntingthorpe historical flight. Vulcan to the Sky Trust - Avro Vulcan Bomber XH558 - Vulcan Operating Company (http://www.tvoc.co.uk/)

If the BAA shopkeepers were told that she would be dropping off a payload of 20 or so thousand pounders :ok:, they would probably hear tills ringing and get very excited about retail margins.

[OPS1329]

I'm sure George Dubya's recent visit caused more disruption...


LOTS MORE .. It was farcical & he should have been told to go to BZZ

The person(s) for the decision not to allow this flight should wholely ASHAMED - I hope the BAA get a slating in the press!

[tarrant]

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for your comments re the above disappointment. As the Eagle group of Companies archivist you will understand how I feel at the moment. Yesterday I spent time on the phone with the person who cancelled the slots that had been granted. I am simply amazed at reasons given for such action. This event would have helped to improve the image of the BAA in the public arena, which has waned over the past years.

This well maintained and yes loved aircraft would have been on an historical flight. Many ex Eagle staff planned to be at the airport to witness the event. Eagle as you will recall was a large operator at Heathrow in the sixties and it deserved this salute on the 40th anniversary since closure.

Question, if the slots were give and landing fees waivered by the BAA, how come someone else can come along and reverse the decision? Is this good management? Obviously the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing.

Nevertheless all ex Eagle staff would like to express our thanks to Air Atlantique for painting the aircraft back into British Eagle colours particularly for this 40th anniversary year. The reception throughout the year at various venues has been amazing. Innsbruck airport was particularly fantastic, re-enacting one of Eagle's old routes, with the airport General Manager welcoming us in person and inviting us back next year.

[PaperTiger]

Yesterday I spent time on the phone with the person who cancelled the slots that had been granted. I am simply amazed at reasons given for such action.So who was it (title, not name), and what were the reasons given ?

On second thoughts, name too please. :E

[xraydice]

"Many ex Eagle staff planned to be at the airport to witness the event. Eagle as you will recall was a large operator at Heathrow in the sixties and it deserved this salute on the 40th anniversary since closure"Grrrrrrrrr .looks like a "pleasure trip" to LHR and back today ,shame to waste the ticket now , cant even take a thermos of tea these days.

[Wycombe]

What a complete bunch of t**ssers at BAA Shopping Centres.

What possible harm could it have done??

[Norman.D.Landing]

Well it's possible that a technical failure would have left the aircraft disabled on the runway. I'm sure the resulting delays to hundreds of aircraft and thousands of passengers would have made a few more headlines, and damaged the airports reputation far more than commemorative flight.

Didn't this aircraft display at Farnborough? An air show is the place to see this operate, NOT a busy, full to capacity airport. :=

[Avman]

Norman D Landing, I'm not being patronising, but if you were a little older you might think differently. By the way, quite a number of modern airliners become disabled on the runway every day around the world.

[1970s Spotter]

Norm'
Regarding the possibility of the '6 going u/s on one of the 27s is a possibility of course. But statisticly any aircraft could end up in that situation, it should not be a reason for stopping an aircraft from arriving.

As to confining aircraft of a certain age (who defines that?) to air-shows only, I don't buy this. Obviously the BAA didn't either as they did originally give the DC6 permission to use LHR. I suppose we could segregate aircraft by type and age... while we are at it we could stop pensioners being out in daylight hours as they tend to slow down movement in the high-streets/supermarkets/Post Office. And let's stop vintage cars from using main roads, makes sence.
This flight was going to be a one-off so the disruption, such as it might have been, would have been minimal - about the same as the occasional slow moving vehicle on the M1. They can be a bit of a pain in the b*m but life goes on!

My thought as to why the flight was canx. is that someone at the BAA suddenly reaslised that the DC6 is an old aircraft with those spinney things on the wings, and panicked.

Anyway it's happened now.

PS Wonder what would have happened if there had been an airworthy Viscount, and BA wanted to have a party and bring it into LHR? (Scrap the party, no free cash available)

[Norman.D.Landing]

Avman, fair comment but my age has nothing to do with it. I spent 3 days at Farnborough, and thought the DC-6 was wonderful. But LHR isn't the right place for it.

Can someone answer this for me? Chapter2 aircraft are banned from commercially flying in Europe yes? So how is this a/c operating? Is it Chapter 3 compliant? I've looked on the net but can't find the answer.

[trident3A]

I saw it Farnborough on the Sunday, an absoloute peach it was. Was so looking forward to seeing it over London, nice clear day and westerly ops. Dammit.

[Tonka Toy]

Would tarrant, feel able to Pm the name of the individual concerned who cancelled the slot, as my MP would like it and I would like it so I can systematically continue to eliminate this type of imbecile that infects aviation in this country by the mere fact that they exist at all. BAA are and continue to be an absolute disgrace and national embarassment.

It amazes me that they don't 'get it'. I had to converse with a senior manager some time ago when lobbing in to heathrow. Some pompous prat didn't understand my careful explanation as to various problems, but he did understand 'you and your outfit are a shower of ****' and a pone call at S of S level, and that was before T5

Take it off them, nationalise it or make the terminals compete. But please don't let the Spannish run it anymore.

I'm very sorry for Mike, Julian and the team. I think its time to get some political clout behind them and a good PR worth their salt should be able to do that.

[Skipness One Echo]

Norma Landings it's very simple let me explain. It's an old British trait, it's what we do. We find things we love and occasionally we appreciate and remember them. Some of us like shiny old aircraft, it defies logic but there we are. We make exceptions where no harm will be done. Heathrow is a little quieter than you'd think at certain times at the moment.

The new British trait is to have a shiny yellow jacket on and look for reasons why things must be stopped. There is a corrosive and endemic decision making paralysis in this country that kills originality, throttles incentive and has no understanding of that British tradition, discretion.

As to consistency, tell that to the 100s who ended up in Ireland when "W" came on Air Farce One.


"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, de-briefed or numbered. My life is my own."

[Norman.D.Landing]

Skippy!

Norma? That's not very nice is it? You've hurt my feelings now. :ouch:

I don't have a shiny yellow jacket, it doesn't go with my skin tone.

Toodle pip.

[Davidsoffice]

I wouldn't be surprised if airfield ops and atc said yes but then non-passengers would want access and that's a no! BAA has always had a non-enthusiast policy.

Re the noise restrictions, isn't it only jets that are restricted? Having said that I'm sure BAA would have allowed Concorde to continue operating!

[Wycombe]

...a Vickers Funbus was in only a few weeks ago, but then again that wasn't a "historic" flight (although it could be!) and BAA were probably not in a position to tell the operator to go somewhere else!

[Whalerider]

Not for nothing does BAA stand for BUREAU AGAINST AVIATION.

The f....wit who made this decision should be sacked immediately.

The sooner BAA are kicked out the better - PLEASE

[Airbanda]

As to the last pax 6, possibly Balair's HB-IBS. Regular at Gatwick up to 1979 at least.