Security Theatre

[Sunfish]

This has to be the authoritative article on the stupidity of security checks at airports, at least in America.

Airport security in America is a sham—“security theater(sic)” designed to make travelers feel better and catch stupid terrorists. Smart ones can get through security with fake boarding passes and all manner of prohibited items—as our correspondent did with ease.

I’ve amassed an inspiring collection of al-Qaeda T-shirts, Islamic Jihad flags, Hezbollah videotapes, and inflatable Yasir Arafat dolls (really). All these things I’ve carried with me through airports across the country. I’ve also carried, at various times: pocketknives, matches from hotels in Beirut and Peshawar, dust masks, lengths of rope, cigarette lighters, nail clippers, eight-ounce tubes of toothpaste (in my front pocket), bottles of Fiji Water (which is foreign), and, of course, box cutters. I was selected for secondary screening four times—out of dozens of passages through security checkpoints—during this extended experiment. At one screening, I was relieved of a pair of nail clippers; during another, a can of shaving cream.



“Counterterrorism in the airport is a show designed to make people feel better,” he said. “Only two things have made flying safer: the reinforcement of cockpit doors, and the fact that passengers know now to resist hijackers.” This assumes, of course, that al-Qaeda will target airplanes for hijacking, or target aviation at all. “We defend against what the terrorists did last week,” Schneier said. He believes that the country would be just as safe as it is today if airport security were rolled back to pre-9/11 levels. “Spend the rest of your money on intelligence, investigations, and emergency response.”

Pilots—or people dressed as pilots—are screened, as the public knows, but that’s because they enter the airport through the front door. The employees who drive fuel trucks, and make french fries at McDonald’s, and clean airplane bathrooms (to the extent that they’re cleaned anymore) do not pass through magnetometers when they enter the airport, and their possessions are not searched. To me this always seemed to be, well, another “vulnerability.”

“Do you know what you have on the inside of an airport?” Hawley asked me. “You have all the military traveling, you have guns, chemicals, jet fuel. So the idea that we would spend a whole lot of resources putting a perimeter around that, running every worker, 50,000 people, every day, through security—why in the heck would you do that? Because all they have to do is walk through clean and then have someone throw something over a fence.”



The Things He Carried - The Atlantic (November 2008) (http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200811/airport-security)

[ExSp33db1rd]

Brilliant.

Says it all - if anyone cares to listen, that's the problem.

[riverfish]

At GVA 2 wks ago.Pulled and hand luggage rifled through as suspicious.
Gate change.
Another xray machine. Straight through...but passenger behind got pulled(went through original check!!)
Also, please note Raclette cheese is no problem, but Camembert is subject to 100ml/100g limit.
When is this surreal ****e going to stop????!!!!
You folks who are regularly tormented by having airports as your place of work have my sympathy.The article above hits the nail on the head.
A.Passenger.

[AMEandPPL]

Says it all - if anyone cares to listen, that's the problem

Exactly ! But just WHO does listen, among those who would be in a position to effect changes ?

I have described on here previously how I have watched as the contents of my hand baggage goes through the X-ray machine at my local airport (Manchester) TOTALLY UNSEEN because the operative is too busy gossiping with her mate. I made a fuss and spoke my mind on one occasion - - - and ended up being taken to the security supervisor and being threatened with prosecution as a "trouble-maker".

[AMEandPPL]

This assumes, of course, that al-Qaeda will target aeroplanes for hijacking, or target aviation at all. “We defend against what the terrorists did last week,” Schneier said

SO very true yet again. Just look at the Virgin Pendolino trains which leave Euston regularly for all places, including my area of Manchester. Friday afternoon, many hundreds wanting to get home for the weekend, all seats full, all corridors and carriage ends full of standing passengers. Probably up to a thousand folk on every train.

And how many of the suitcases (or other luggage) is "security-checked" ?

Answer = NONE

[transilvana]

Let´s hope that Mr Obama ends all this sh.t and have someone really look at the real problems. A fuel truck driver told me that he is not allowed to enter a bottle of water trough security, what the hell !!!!! I drive a truck with 35 tons of fuel!!!! that´s fireworks!!!!

[lomapaseo]

A fuel truck driver told me that he is not allowed to enter a bottle of water trough security, what the hell !!!!! I drive a truck with 35 tons of fuel!!!! that´s fireworks!!!!

I doubt that passenger security screening would let him through with his fuel truck either.

[BusBoy]

the whole thing is purile
Day 1 told bag had liquids in was not suitable, fair enough. given new bag, liquids tested, passed through
Day 2 told new bag had liquids in not suitable. given new bag (was original bag), liquids tested, passed through
Day 4 told bag had liquids in was not suitable. given new bag (same as 2nd bag), liquids tested and passed through.

I totally understand that security officers have their (difficult) task to do. However, this is bloody stupid!

[Admiral346]

It has been said a million times!
Here and on any occasion there is.
Noone will listen.

They keep playing this bad joke on us, and on our passengers.

What a farce!

Nic

[744rules]

Things I've seen passing thru x-ray

- a ladder
- engineer's toolbox
- a guy with a cart filled with soft drink cans had to offload everything, put it on the belt, and reload his cart.

Sometimes I'm afraid they will put on plastic gloves and ask to bent over ....

[merlinxx]

Now we all know who are they Numpty Feckwits who know absolutely nothing about Airport/Airfield/Terminal/Airplane/Peripheral/Cordon Sanitaire security applications.

Crews & Airport Staffers are your 1st and #1 line of defence, and not the Prime Suspects:ugh:

This is one of the reasons I've said at my advanced years, "Shag Off" and enjoy the watching with interest/concern the way this ****e is going. Yup I pax only now, but have developed a 'thumb up bum & shut the **** up' mode! I'm not known for that, so I must be growing up @ 60+?

This could be a real rant, but that waits till after a few ales to celebrate LH's win:ok:

[B737NG]

Yes it is so true! Last week in IND, I came to deadhead and was the selected one..... got stripped to the bones in front of all the PAX, some of them asked me if I am not upset? No was my answer, they just show off that is all. Two day´s earlier in ORD it was diffrent, same two pieces of luggage, same appearence, easy handling.

In every Theatre is a saying that the show must go on, I hope in this one it will end, the sooner the better. For me it is over in 8 years and 362 days, then I retire from a position what I used to love. I still like to go go to work but the way thru security is the big hassle in most of UK and many of US places. There is a diffrent proceedure at every Airport and the amount of liquids are diffrent everywhere. Who in regulation is powerfull enough to end that farce and come back to reality? WHO is the enemy and the threat? Focus on them and not the ones who do the job 24/7.

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[Huck]

It was, admittedly, pre-9/11, but my uncle swears he saw a Korean soldier in Kimpo screening once, getting wanded.

As the proper Korean guard ran the wand over his body the soldier was spread-eagled with his hands in the air - and an Uzi in one hand.....

[kenhughes]

Newark Airport screener accused of stealing electronics from luggage
by Jeff Whelan/The Star-Ledger
Tuesday October 07, 2008, 6:17 PM

As a screener at Newark Liberty International Airport, Pythias Brown was supposed to keep deadly objects off airplanes. But for the past year, authorities allege, Brown has been swiping electronic equipment from luggage of the passengers he was supposed to protect.

A laptop here, a cell phone there. Within months, he had snatched more than 100 items, authorities say.

But this summer, Brown got too ambitious for his own good, allegedly stealing a $47,900 camera from an HBO crew and a camcorder from a CNN employee, authorities said.

Brown attracted the attention of one of his victims -- and eventually investigators -- when he tried to sell the equipment on eBay, the online auction site, authorities said.

Federal investigators charged the 48-year-old Maplewood resident this week with theft. He is scheduled to appear Wednesday in federal court in Newark. If convicted, he faces up to 10 years in prison, Assistant U.S. Attorney Jenny Kramer said.

Officials at the Transportation Security Administration, which employees the airport screeners, said Brown has been placed on administrative leave and, based on their own findings, will soon be fired. Brown has worked as a screener at Newark Liberty since 2002.

"The TSA takes these matters of theft and any wrongdoing very seriously, and takes a hard line against those offenders," spokeswoman Lara Uselding said.

When investigators raided Brown's home last week, they seized a trove of contraband, according to an affidavit signed by Thomas Adams, an agent with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security's Office of Inspector General and the lead investigator on the case.

Among the items seized were 66 cameras, 31 laptop computers, 20 cell phones, 17 sets of electronic games, 13 pieces of jewelry, 12 GPS devices, 11 MP3 players, eight camera lenses, six video cameras and two DVD players, the affidavit said.

According to the affidavit, Brown confessed that he began stealing two to three items per week from the airport beginning in September 2007. He told authorities he put most of the stolen items up for sale on eBay, it said.

One of the items was a Sony camcorder that was swiped from the bag of a CNN employee who was a passenger on flight from Newark to Houston in July 2008, authorities said.

In August, the CNN employee contacted police to report that the stolen camera was listed for sale on eBay. Authorities said the camera was posted by a person with the user ID "alirla."

Investigators then used their own eBay account to place the winning bid on the camera, and arranged to pay Brown through a PayPal account, the affidavit said.

Authorities said they gave Brown an address in Marlton where he sent the camera. On the package, Brown listed his Maplewood home as the return address, authorities said. The serial numbers on the camera matched those of the stolen CNN equipment, authorities said.

Video images from security cameras at the Newark post office from where the shipment was mailed linked Brown to the package, authorities said. Brown's credit card was used to pay for the postage, they said.

As investigators built their case against Brown, an HBO employee reported the theft of a $47,900 camera from a bag he had checked at Newark Liberty for a flight to London in September.

Again, authorities found the camera posted for sale on eBay by "alirla," according to the affidavit. They traced the eBay account to a Verizon Internet address listed to Brown's fiancee, authorities said. The couple, who had their wedding scheduled for Oct. 12, lived together at the Maplewood residence where the Verizon account was registered, authorities said.

Authorities raided the home on Oct. 1.

Uselding said the TSA worked closely with homeland security investigators to bring the charges against Brown. She also said that his crimes were rare and that less than 300 TSA employees have been terminated for theft.

"The actions of a few individuals in no way reflect on the outstanding job our more than 43,000 security officers do every day to ensure the security of the traveling public," she said.

"Less than 300 TSA employees have been terminated for theft". They think that's a good thing?

[Bravohotel]

One of the best security acts I have to deal with is the "Airside Security" at Brisbane Airport Australia,having just come from another country and passed through all that Airports security....now you need to board another international flight so off you go as a transit passanger...but wait there is another screening point before you proceed to the boarding lounge....hope you don't have any Duty free grog.....the Contracting Secuirty guards will reduce the weight of your carryon.....each day they collect a large haul of booze...the best haul was a flight out of Sydney for Port Moresby.....for some technical requirement Aircraft diverts to Brisbane....pax told to leave Aircraft and take all carryon off the Aircraft...As most pax had some form of liquid duty free....they were about to have it taken from them...what a haul I tell you there was some very unhappy pax.....but the christmas party this year will be a good one for those uniformed robbers.....or the Collector of Customs auction just got better...why would you need another security check Airside...and its staffed upwards of at least 4 people sometimes more.

[el #]

I think it should be collective wisdom that alcohol and food should be disposed in the toilet rather than left at security.
Likely, a reasonable effort should be made so that any item left behind is made unusable.

[SuanLum]

We had the joy of flying UK>>BKK>>OZ return just after 9/11 and grew weary(but not upset) at the never ending checks,after all we felt safer as a result? BUT when flying Sydney to Brisbane my wife forgot to stow tweezers(lethal weapon) in her hold baggage and had them confiscated.........fine we're safer? but on the flight we were given METAL knives and forks to eat a cold snack and GLASS glasses to quoff the local red!

[ExSp33db1rd]

From our local newspaper again, today.

A reader shares another "security" experience: "At Sydney Airport while my 11-year-old son was waiting for me outside the toilets he was given a bag to take on our flight. He said a man gave it to him because he didn't want to waste it by throwing it away. The man said he was a salesman from Pakistan and was carrying clothing samples. I told security, they x-rayed it, removed the shampoo and returned the bag, with clothing in it, to my son. They were barely interested."

[ExSp33db1rd]

As the proper Korean guard ran the wand over his body the soldier was spread-eagled with his hands in the air - and an Uzi in one hand.....


At Hong Kong a colleague saw a whole troop of soldiers given the Magic Wand treatment -individually stood on a little stool - the 'wand'went ballastic, AK-47's, bullets, grenades, bayonets - no questions asked, so he asked what the operator was looking for ? No answer.

Total Madness, it's beyond theatre.

[Pax Vobiscum]

Here's Bruce Schneier's (http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2008/09/securitymatters_0918)* take on the subject of confiscation of liquids.

* "The closest thing the security industry has to a rock star" - The Register

[oceancrosser]

One of the best security acts I have to deal with is the "Airside Security" at Brisbane Airport Australia,having just come from another country and passed through all that Airports security....now you need to board another international flight so off you go as a transit passanger...but wait there is another screening point before you proceed to the boarding lounge....hope you don't have any Duty free grog.....the Contracting Secuirty guards will reduce the weight of your carryon.....each day they collect a large haul of booze...the best haul was a flight out of Sydney for Port Moresby.....for some technical requirement Aircraft diverts to Brisbane....pax told to leave Aircraft and take all carryon off the Aircraft...As most pax had some form of liquid duty free....they were about to have it taken from them...what a haul I tell you there was some very unhappy pax.....but the christmas party this year will be a good one for those uniformed robbers.....or the Collector of Customs auction just got better...why would you need another security check Airside...and its staffed upwards of at least 4 people sometimes more.

BNE security are nuts, simply nuts. On the other hand SYD is what you can expect, but BNE... :ugh:

[Doodlebug2]

Watched a guy in Bombay pass through the screen while talking on his mobile, then get wanded doing the same..:ugh: Noooo question!

[notmyC150v2]

The increased security at airports has nothing to do with making us safer and everything to do about making Governments look like they are taking action. I was really hoping that after our recent federal election the new Government would take the reins and say it's all nonsense and we can stop it now.

Unfortunately the nonsense continues.

My favourite example is the Amberley Air Show. There were thousands of people and billions of dollars of military hardware AND NO SECURITY CHECKS AT ALL.

If a Terrorist really wanted to pick a target that had all the elements this was it. Thousands of people, military hardware and TV Cameras galore. We walked through the gate with an esky full of liquids, metal chairs and shock, horror, UMBRELLAS. No one looked at us twice.

It is clear that the secret services are aware of the potential terrorists and their aims. It is also clear that as soon as something even smells like a risk, several people "disappear" to regions unknown for considerate treatment and gentle information seeking purposes.

All I ask is that I get through the screening process without having to take my bloody shoes off...

[A and C]

I am now working out of another European state and at last we have security that has a bit of common sence to it, crews are checked in a plesant and proffesional way, NOT BY THE AGGRESSIVE OVER IMPORTANT HALF WITTED UNACCOUNTABLE SCUM THAT THE UK EMPLOYS FOR SECURITY SCREENING. It is so nice to be treated with respect, unlke the attitude of the numptys in the UK.

We also don't have the restrictions on who rides on the flight deck that the UK goverment mandates, this is at the discresion of the Captain.

[elgnin]

A and C. Can you clarify what you mean by the staff that the UK employs for security screening? Security staff are employed by the airport operator, for example at Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted etc. BAA are the employer - not the UK. If the staff at some central search areas are rude, aggressive, offensive then do something about it and stop filling these pages with rubbish.Ask to see the supervisor and explain what happened, write to BAA and complain, take the individuals name and a description, the time the problem occurred, the exact location, names of any witnesses who will confirm what happened and the names of other staff members working in the same team.It is a shame that one or two bad staff members can taint everyone doing the same job and nothing will happen to rectify the situation if all the complaints are on here and not on a managers desk to deal with.Oh, and if you or others (as yopu state - at captains discretion) are happy to have others on the flight deck with you and cannot see why the UK, amongst others, does not permit it, best stay off the island!

[ExSp33db1rd]

All I ask is that I get through the screening process without having to take my bloody shoes off...


Wear Crocs - they kick off before the Duty Goon can even blink.

I have a pair of bright greeen ones, with brown trim - very fetching, I'm told I look like Mickey Mouse. Should I care ?

[luvly jubbly]

Oh elgnin... If only life was so easy!
Jesus... We would be all day, complaining. And we have complaints most days!

Try going through UK security as air crew........... It's enlightening.

Positioning in uniform through LGW the other day, I had not 1, but 2 of those yellow jerseyed "Here to help" school dropouts ordering me (not asking!!) to remove my airside pass........

Who the hell are they and where can they learn some manners? :rolleyes:

[elgnin]

Luvly...I must admit I agree, I too have been through Gatwick several times in recent weeks and I remain a little unclear who the yellow jerseys are or why they are there! I assumed, perhaps in haste, that they were there to assist the bucket and spade travellers who only visit now and then and frequently get lost. You said that they 'ordered you' to remove your airside pass. Lots of Questions about that such as, where were you when they made the order - I am assuming landside as the yellows are (I thought) meeters and greeters (M&G's) so should not have been in the RZ. Were they together or was this on 2 separate occasions as you travelled through the airport - if separate that would imply they are not just M&G's and some form of instruction or training has been given to 'order' such requests? Were they displaying any ID's or passes? Did you get their names, locations, witnesses, times etc??

[Romeo India Xray]

A and C. Can you clarify what you mean by the staff that the UK employs for security screening? Security staff are employed by the airport operator, for example at Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted etc. BAA are the employer - not the UK. If the staff at some central search areas are rude, aggressive, offensive then do something about it and stop filling these pages with rubbish.Ask to see the supervisor and explain what happened, write to BAA and complain, take the individuals name and a description, the time the problem occurred, the exact location, names of any witnesses who will confirm what happened and the names of other staff members working in the same team.It is a shame that one or two bad staff members can taint everyone doing the same job and nothing will happen to rectify the situation if all the complaints are on here and not on a managers desk to deal with.Oh, and if you or others (as yopu state - at captains discretion) are happy to have others on the flight deck with you and cannot see why the UK, amongst others, does not permit it, best stay off the island!

Sounds like Paarmo is back :ugh:


Off the Island ....... thank god!


Same here - also "thank god"!

I remain of the opinion that this is a simple mechanism by which those unsuitable for employment at McDonalds are able to secure a job. Their managers being those who were fired from McDonalds for misconduct and those making the bl:mad:y rules, dont even get me started!

Scenario - I go to work here, operate a sector to LGW (for instance) and then pass the 2L bottle of water I took to work to someone airside at LGW - Can you imagine the terror threat of it? Perhaps LGW would like to screen all inbound crew and PAX on leaving the AC also? :ugh:

RIX

[pax britanica]

Solution to security woes for airline pax

Ground all Biz jets for six months. That way the people who really run the country get screwed over big time and they won't put up with that so will lean on their tame politicians to sort thngs out.
Never happen of course but it would get the job done
PB

[Re-Heat]

Also, please note Raclette cheese is no problem, but Camembert is subject to 100ml/100g limit.

I don't know - ripe Camembert might easily be considered a WMD in some countries...!

[Mshamba]

But folks, remember. We do not have any security controls to improve any security. We have security controls for our politicians, saying "yes, we have done something".

Even they know that it will not be of any help in case of... But who is the one telling all those people at home, eating their burgers in front of the television between two "reality" series: "ok, we're getting rid of the airport security, passengers will no longer be controlled, 10.000's of people working for security companies will lose their jobs" - he will not get voted again, and worse, all those vegetarians out there will complain that "now all those terrorists will kill instantly all americans all over the world".

Uhm, nothing will cange so.

[Skipness One Echo]

I had security staff being rude to me when they forgot to take my pic at passenger search and so denied me access to the domestic pier at Heathrow, Terminal One. The smug little man folded his arms and said he would not give me his name quoting "data protection act". His supervisor would only give me his first name and his position. Is this BAA policy? I am chasing BAA but this will take time. Anyone know if all staff are allowed to refuse to identify themselve?

Thanks

[S78]

The Data Protection Act only applies to personal information stored on a computer - it is not an excuse for somebody to refuse to give you their name......



S78

[marchino61]

And it is not just security people who do this.

I had a disagreement with the LH ground staff (who were at their usual rude best) at FRA.

This guy refused to identify himself after calling me "illegitimate", then when I tried to turn over his badge to get his name, he accused me of assaulting him. His boss also refused to identify him, and of course all concerned claimed not to hear what he said (despite the fact he shouted it at the top of his lungs).

I wonder how LH can have such good crew in the air yet such bad tempered, unhelpful , "jobsworth" people on the ground?

[Re-Heat]

Anyone know if all staff are allowed to refuse to identify themselve?
There is no reason under the data protection act for refusing to give a name, behind which they would be able to hide.

[Stone_cold]

The UK policy on Jumpseat is unique .Most airlines do allow non-operating f/deck in their employ to use the j/seat .
One can operate a flight a flight into UK airspace one day and the next you are not allowed to be in the cockpit if you are not operating .
Contrary to what you may believe , it is the norm in most , if not all other CAA jurisdictions to allow (or not regulate j/seat use).
What most agree on is that "other airline staff/crew " should not be allowed access to the c/pit j/seat , but the CAA should not dictate that "only operating crew can occupy the j/seat " How is it any safer if I can only, say d/head into LHR as a pax in the back , BUT it would be perfectly acceptable to operate out immediately ( at the control ).

[18-Wheeler]

Good timing with this thread.
I forgot my ASIC (Aussie security card thingy) the other day and had to exit through an international airport, on the way to an overseas port then back into Aus.
I was with another pass holder, which is technically legal as he an escort me, but I thought I'd try just walking through.

And I did - no-one asked to see my ID and I went straight out onto the apron no problems at all. If they give me any greif at all next week, I'll remind them of their little mistake this week.

[ExSp33db1rd]

How is it any safer if I can only, say d/head into LHR as a pax in the back , BUT it would be perfectly acceptable to operate out immediately ( at the control ).


A very logical argument. How do you spell logical ?

[Ex Cargo Clown]

I had security staff being rude to me when they forgot to take my pic at passenger search and so denied me access to the domestic pier at Heathrow, Terminal One. The smug little man folded his arms and said he would not give me his name quoting "data protection act". His supervisor would only give me his first name and his position. Is this BAA policy? I am chasing BAA but this will take time. Anyone know if all staff are allowed to refuse to identify themselve?

If any of these retarded, failed traffic wardens try this airside, challenge them as they must have their ID visible.

Some spotty little, failed burger flipper tried the same in EGCC on me, caused all manner of a kerfuffle over a trivial matter that anyone with an IQ greater than their shoe size would have resolved in milliseconds.

The more complaints that both PAX and Crew can file against these morons, the more chance of something been done about it. Write to your MP, Newspapers whoever you can, and claim back our airports from these imbeciles.

[Rockhound]

On Tuesday I flew from Gatwick as a pax on a USAir flight to Philadelphia. I passed through the first security check, without removing my shoes, and was patted down; the security guard also ran his hands over my shoes, which were soft. Good, I thought, removal of shoes was being dispensed with. But no, there was a second X-ray check further on, for shoes only. Arriving at the gate, I was politely asked by a security guard if he could inspect my hand baggage. He gave it a very perfunctory once-over. Then he asked me to remove my shoes! When I told him they had already been removed and X-rayed, he said that this second check was "for the airline". I asked him what had the earlier check been for, if not for the airline. He had no answer.:ugh:
Rockhound

[Nipper2]

I could not help but notice a huge pile of crew bags stacked up in the foyer of an hotel adjacent to LHR yesterday evening. All totally unattended. The associated crew were in the bar (though not drinking), presumably waiting for their transport.

I assume this baggage would have been rigorously searched at LHR before the crew were allowed to board on the basis that it 'could have been interfered with'.

No?

[Out Of Trim]

On Tuesday I flew from Gatwick as a pax on a USAir flight to Philadelphia. I passed through the first security check, without removing my shoes, and was patted down; the security guard also ran his hands over my shoes, which were soft. Good, I thought, removal of shoes was being dispensed with. But no, there was a second X-ray check further on, for shoes only. Arriving at the gate, I was politely asked by a security guard if he could inspect my hand baggage. He gave it a very perfunctory once-over. Then he asked me to remove my shoes! When I told him they had already been removed and X-rayed, he said that this second check was "for the airline". I asked him what had the earlier check been for, if not for the airline. He had no answer.:ugh:
Rockhound


I know something of the US Airways operation at LGW, and unfortunately for you Rockhound - The 1st lot of security - BAA are employed by the Airport Authority - BAA to follow UK Government Security Policy and Regulations.

On reaching the Gate - You were subject to Security employed by US Airways to FAA - US Government Regulations. A Separate company called ICTS. So therefore a double whammy. :ugh:

[Skipness One Echo]

The implication being that they don't trust BAA to do this properly? I flew NWA via Amsterdam recently and whilst being questioned by G4S and unable to produce a ticket as I had used the code to check in online, I was NOT asked to remove my shoes. Left hand right hand let's see if we can work together and spell consistency.........

Have also seen Virgin pax at Heathrow having secondary questioning before boarding whereas BA have none and I don't believe for a minute BA have lax security....

[Two's in]

You really shouldn't try to analyze what these people are doing any more than you can wish for the moon. As a couple of others have alluded to, airport security staff have one purpose ony - that is to provide the Government of (*insert your country here) with tangible evidence to the voting public that they are doing "something" about terrorism.

The Government doesn't care that it isn't effective or remotely useful, they only have to show that they are doing "something". Look at it from the Government's viewpoint;

1. Secures votes for demonstrating they are fighting terrorism.
2. Gives thousands of jobs to unskilled workers.
3. Keeps the educationally subnormal off the streets.
4. Brings the aircrew down to earth by treating them just like Joe Public.
5. Allows them to introduce random and arbitrary changes to the screening system to maintain the illusion of responding to terrorism based intelligence.
6. Generates additional revenue from usury based pricing in airport shops for all those things you can no longer bring with you.
7. Provides a perfect scapegoat if something does go wrong and something gets on board a plane.
8. Has single handedly revitalized the sock industry.
9. Provides a pre-screeing selection program for fascist bully boys for when the Government decides to use them to maintain civil order when democracy breaks down.

Who knew?

[lasernigel]

Here's one on security/safety for you all. How is it in Europe we have to cope with plastic knives,forks and spoons but as soon as we get South of the Med and change planes, we can then be trusted to use metal once again????
Isn't this the area of the world where the terrorists come from???:confused::confused::*

[L337]

LHR - BKK: Metal knife and fork.

BKK - SYD: Plastic knife and fork.

SYD - BKK: Plastic.

BKK - SYD: Metal.

Too stupid for words.

[Max Angle]

he said that this second check was "for the airline".

Whilst I get as frustrated as the next person by the constant trips though "security" lets not forget that it was a second check "for the airline" that prevented Nizar Hindawi from blowing up an El Al flight from LHR to TLV in 1986. The explosives were found in a bag, that he had given to his pregnant fiancé to carry, by security people at the El Al lounge.

[mona lot]

Makes me laugh when the SS ask everytime "got any liquids":confused:. Why not also ask "got any semtex or box cutters":ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Ibis]

If Joe public would stay out of an airports for a while, using other means of transport, this nonsense would be stopped soon!
The commercial pressure would change there minds!
Just imagine the picture when from tomorrow the airports are empty and all the so called "security staff" hanging around and twisting there thumbs?
No car drives into the NCP, no business is done in the shopping mall "Airport".
What you think, how long would that be accepted before things will change?
BAA needs your money too, and as we know, money rules the world! :{

[Two's in]

that prevented Nizar Hindawi from blowing up an El Al flight from LHR to TLV in 1986

There is simply no comparison between El Al security measures and the daily Circus that takes place at airports today.

[geo7E7]

Here's one on security/safety for you all. How is it in Europe we have to cope with plastic knives,forks and spoons but as soon as we get South of the Med and change planes, we can then be trusted to use metal once again????
Isn't this the area of the world where the terrorists come from???


Oooooh buddy, terrorists come from ALL corners of the earth...please do not generalize.:= Thank you.

I do understand what you're trying to say and most of us here ( south of the med...) are on the lookout at ALL the times....what can we do, some airlines here put inflight services ahead of safety and they conveniently "overlooked" on this matter!:\

[llondel]

On the subject of metal cutlery, Virgin Premium Economy has metal. Mind you, the knives seem to be blunt...

It's a while since I've been there, but I do remember seeing razor blades for sale in the Gatwick departure lounge.

[cwatters]

Take an oil stone with you :-)

[Lancastrian]

Certainly took your advice Ibis......packed in being a "sardine special" at long last. Went to my destinations by ship. No more two hour journeys to the airport,three hour check-ins......then the security and flight.....and sat in seats that are......need I say more. Holiday was bliss this year.

[Ron & Edna Johns]

Anybody tried snapping the plastic knives Qantas gives you? The result is a darn sight more dangerous than a blunt, metal butter-knife!

Everybody knows it, nobody wants to admit it or do anything about it.

And please - no crap about how we shouldn't be telling the big, bad "terrorists" how to do things..... they've figured it all out by now.... if they really exist, that is!

Seven years on - can you really believe this circus is still playing and hasn't been run out of town yet??

[Miserlou]

The Security Circus sends a clear message to terrorists the world over. "You've got nothing to worry about as the authorities have no imagination!"

They may be keeping an eye on the ball but it is the wrong ball.

[jethrobee]

I find it all a farce, recently flew back from Phoenix to LHR, the TSA asked me to make sure my bag was unlocked and put it in the pile of bags waiting for screening.

The operator didn't seem too pleased when I waited around, and tried to move me on. I asked her who was guarding the large pile of unlocked luggage while she was screening to which she pointed out that she was, and that it was more secure!

Ahem, more secure how? Its an open area that anyone can walk in off the street and put anything into any bag!

Another classic for me was in JFK when I had locked my bag, and was told to wait while it was screened. I stood there like a lemon while they used bolt cutters on my lock because I "wasn't allowed to interfere with the screening process". Why make me wait to watch my lock getting destroyed, what an absolute idiot!

Its the same with UK arrivals now, the government deem that it needs to be more visible that it is protecting our borders, great, so now they just slow it all down and create massive queues!!! I normally use the IRIS at least when they are working!!

Rant over!

[lasernigel]

On the subject of TSA locks. I work for an American company as an engineer,area as far as India.
TSA locks are there for security to gain access to my toolcase for inspection and then place the lock back. Now on my 15th lock in 18months. Are they making a collection of them???

Oooooh buddy, terrorists come from ALL corners of the earth...please do not generalize. Thank you.

Sorry but didn't mean that kind of generalisation.:ok:

[Max Angle]

There is simply no comparison between El Al security measures and the daily Circus that takes place at airports today.

I quite agree with you, it is a circus and it's not hard to see why some other authorities and airlines want to carry out their own screening.

[Eboy]

Bruce Schneier is great. He has a free monthly newsletter that I get and you might like also:

Crypto-Gram Newsletter (http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram.html)

At Dulles I go through security and walk past 50-gallon Rubbermaid garbage cans filled with surrendered liquids. If these substances are potentially hazardous, why don't they call the bomb squad?

[FairWeatherFlyer]

The Data Protection Act only applies to personal information stored on a computer

Pedant mode on! If you are referring to the UK's 1988 legislation, it was extended beyond computers (1984 vesion allowed paper/microfiche filing to be used to bypass the legislation). A random summary found on t'Internet:

Data Protection Act 1998 - update (http://www.tssa.org.uk/article-46.php3?id_article=965)

The big picture here:

The Data Protection Act (DPA) 1998, data protection policy - ICO (http://www.ico.gov.uk/Home/what_we_cover/data_protection.aspx)

I only highlight this in case there's a lingering false belief that paper still guarantees exemption.

[Sepp]

On the subject of TSA locks - what is the purpose of a lock that anyone can open with a stern look?

My lad defeated mine using the key from a toy money-box. It makes you weep, really it does.

[ExSp33db1rd]

Checking in at Tom Bradley Terminal, LAX. was TOLD by TSA that all baggage must be locked before X-Ray, then to stand by in case one of mine needed to be unlocked for extra search.

Didn't get on the aircraft ( Standby pax. ) so went to another airline - in Terminal 1. Was berated by TSA because baggage was locked ! Was told that each Terminal had its' own procedures - how the f**k was I supposed to know ? :ugh:

Lunatics running the Asylum.