USA IFR flight planning

[VIKING9]

Taking a G4 soon to USA and have heard there are some issues when filing flight plans within the USA. I intend to file our first plan from Europe using Air Support PPS but when we did it before, the plan was not on file with the tower using the AFTN's that PPS generated. I don't want this problem again so can anyone shed some light on how I can file with no problems.

The last thing I want to do is walk up the tower and file it manually !!!

[malc4d]

in the USA 1 800 wx brief

[stansted_dan]

Last time we flew to the US we had the same problem with PPS. We put the acknowledged FPL on the handling request then faxed it to the handling agent in the US and asked them to file it locally for us, didn't seem to be much of an issue.

[supermoix]

Hello,

If you are planning domesti IFR within the continental US, It's easier to do it just making a profile in this website: FltPlan.com Flight Planning for General Aviation. (http://www.fltplan.com/) after you finish your profile, and put origin and destination it will show you preferred routes depending on your AC equipment, last flight plans filled on that route and, one hour before your ETD, it will show you your assigned route by ATC. it's so simple it scares me sometimes!

On the other hand, if you're flying int'l out of the US east coast, only Boston FS, New York FSS and Miami FSS handle with a guarantee that your ICAO Intenational Flight will be on the system, other FSS's will only relay the info for them but offer no guarantees it will be on the system, actually, they will gladly let you give the local phone numbers for calling them.

These are the local Phone numbers for the fligh service stations:

MIA FSS (305) 233-2600
NY FSS (866) 365-5019

You can also call 1-800-992-7433 (WX-BRIEF) from any phone number toll free and it will redirect you to the local FSS, but not necesarily to the FSS that you need to fill ICAO INT'L FPL's.

Just have your ICAO flight plan format filled up on hand and relay it verbally to the FSS specialist, simpler.

Handlers like Universal or Jeppesen can do it for you, but i'd rather have control of whom i talk to and listen to their briefing.

I hope this can be of any help. Happy landings.

P.S. I forgot, the FPL system in the USA won't kill your flight plan exactly one hour after your ETD if it is not activated, they just won't guarantee it will be available, but always is. If not, It will remain on the system 24 hours so you just tell them to reactivate it once again with a new ETD.

[VIKING9]

Thanks for the replies so far, very useful. I can't believe the US system is this primative. I've had more filing success in deepest darkest Africa than I have for US flights.

How can I check one hour before if my flight plan is on file if I'm in the air ?

Last time I asked a large US FBO to assist with the flight plan, they said they din't know how to. They also didn't know what AFTN is :ugh:

Keep the replies coming. I can't believe it is this difficult........

[CL300]

ts ts ts.....


You cannot compare US of A and Africa ( at least on the ATC system :hmm:)

Read the AIM, a little bit of the FAR's, know how it does work over there, THAN you can have an opinion.
If you are waiting for pprune to give you an education, you will have a hard time.
Your post is meaningfulless; you would like the world to look like UK ? Sorry it does not, USof A, CIS , these are the first airspace in the world; thisis not because they do not clear you FIRST for the llz THAN to the glide that they are primitive. They have their rules and YOU need to adapt, by increasing your knowledge.
What I am puzzled with, is that a G4 driver is seeking prime operating advice on a rumour network !!! He might as well get the knowledge from wikkipedia !!:rolleyes:
Which operator is :mad: enough to give the responsability of this aircraft to this person ??
In the darkest places of africa, you never went up and down "buildings" to file, pay, bribe and such ??? YOUR africa is much more white than mine then...
:E

IF you have not the faintest clue about filing a flight plan, I do suspect that you are going to miss a lot in between, so good luck to you, you really need some...:uhoh:

[VIKING9]

CL300 - I guess from that reply you are US.

It's irrelevant what aircraft type I'm driving. The problems still exist.

If you think I am going to head off to USA based on what I'm told on Pprune, you are sadly living in cuckoo land. I am merely asking for the thoughts and advice of others. Most on here seem happy to share their experiences whilst you appear to just shoot me down in flames. Americanism maybe !!

Anyway, thanks for posting what to me appears meaningless.

[His dudeness]

What I am puzzled with, is that a G4 driver is seeking prime operating advice on a rumour network !!! He might as well get the knowledge from wikkipedia !!

Jealous? :cool:


I filed only one flight plan yet in the states, that was via telephone and a FSS station. Very helpful guy on the other end. Different than the IFPS/CFMU crap, but a piece of cake in the end.

supermoix advise seems to be very good, sounds really easy to handle. Regarding the check an hour before, I´d figure you could either call the tower or the FSS again.

[merlinxx]

Tis simple, the guy was aking for advice/assist, why take the piss out of him for doing so? Any non familiar aviator working domestic in the US for the first time (who has always worked in an ICAO environ), needs advice and assist.

What the heck is wrong asking for some advice/assist? Advise the guy, don't give him ****e because he's got the bollocks to ask!

Be guiding folks, not obstructing SVP.

[CL300]

I'm far from LA, flew a fair bit in a lot of different types including G4.

The post #5 is reflecting this person behaviour.
HIS attitude is far from constructive, and if like he wrote, he has been there before; WTF about this question ?
So, if not this is equallly worrying.....

I love flying in america, have not been there for a while; but I know the business for nearly 20 years; and, to my knowledge; these answers should be part of the kit of the large bizjet driver. If he is FO or SIC (sic! or :ooh:) then he should share his concerns with the real captain.

It takes less than 5 minutes to have a FPL in the system in USof A, and there is no airway slots, but pleaaase guys.....I cannot believe that a G4 captain is not aware of anything like this.
(I just turned my chair around to query a couple of GLEX drivers about their feelings about it, and they agree with me....nonsense; back to school...(not my words))
Now you can be politically correct, up to a point, when people have to face their disabilities and limits and have a real day job...

[VIKING9]

I wish I had never asked in the first place. CL300 you have got a serious attitude problem and who said anything about me being a G4 Captain, F/O or SIC.

Guys, except CL300, thanks for the input.

As they say in the US "have a nice day"

[Flintstone]

Viking.

It's your own fault for not being that perfect being like wot CL300 is. ;)

On behalf of the rest of us here I apologise for his attitude. We're only keeping him until we can find a tame Welshman :E

[merlinxx]

I'm from The Valleys (though adopted & integrated Sussex Boy now).

Thanks, I've worked with very many non US operators on their first trip into the FAA arena, it can be a bit daunting for them, but after a good/thorough indoc everything has been fine. There are still snags going International from some locations, the Int'l FSS side is getting a whole let better now than it was 20+ years ago.

Thanks for giving the chap some kind words:ok:

[SNS3Guppy]

Last time I asked a large US FBO to assist with the flight plan, they said they din't know how to.


That's because the FBO doesn't file flight plans for you, nor do flight planning for you. Many FBO's will have facilities where you can do your flight planning, but it's up to you to do it all. The FBO sells fuel, provides parking areas and towing services, sometimes a hangar, detailing the airplane, etc. They'll often help you with catering, and even call a hotel for you. Outside of that, it's up to you.

If you've filed from outside the country, you should be good to your initial destination, where you'll clear customs. Depending on where it is you're coming from you could land short and call, or you could have another party do the calling for you prior to your entry. If you have a satphone (should, in a G4, then you can do it over the satphone.

If you're coming over the NATTracks, then you may be able to set it up with AIRINC or make arrangements to have the call placed...it's what they do. You'll usually need HF for that, or you can see about taking care of it with services over Canada, too.

In the US, computer based filing such as DUATS or commercial Flightplan.com makes filing the flight plan and obtaining all the necessary one-stop shopping information, dirt simple. Easy. Coordinating with a handler, like anywhere, also improves your ability to operate without worry or hinderance. Jeppesen offers such services, as do many others...they'll flight plan for you, do a full fuel, winds, and weather workup, and have everything you need...or you can do it yourself, at your pleasure.

No, the FBO doesn't do those things for you, but it's really no obstacle. They will bring you papers and ice, and provide a quiet place where you can hammer it all out and file it yourself...which is how I'd prefer to do it anyway.

[merlinxx]

The Chief Pilot/Director of Flt Dept at AIG (or was) a Welshman ex Aunty Betty's Flying Club. So we do get out there, even in the 'Queen's Western Colonies':E:ok:

[merlinxx]

Thanks, that's the way it is.

[VIKING9]

Thanks again, much appreciated.

CL300 has gone a bit quiet. Maybe he is peeling his french onions within the "Netjets room of perfection".......:E

As for the FBO comments I made, they advertise as being able to produce flight planning assistance. What that actually meant was "here's the pilot lounge, here's the computer - over to you". Helpful.....:D

Onwards and upwards.

Man that french onion smells strong......oh wait, it's not an onion :uhoh:

[SNS3Guppy]

You didn't say which FBO...it may be that the FBO to which you're referring does provide those services. I've never been to one in the US that provides such services, or seen anyone at the FBO qualified to perform them.

Generally if they're providing flight planning assistance, it's meant to say that computer terminals and other materials such as printers, sometimes charts, etc, are available for you use, in the FBO terminal building.

With services such as fltplan.com, you can do it all from your hotel room for that matter, or do it before you ever cross the ocean to start the trip. In fact, it will even look over the routing chosen by others in your type of aircraft or performance category, and allow you to use that routing if you wish to simplify your flight planning. It will provide customized wind analysis, NoTAMs, etc. Easy.

The toll free number of flight service, which has become privatized and has gone downhill in recent years, is 1-800-992-7433. I used to be able to get an emergency medical call and have the full brieing and flight plan done by phone, calling flight service, on the way to the hangar to pull out the airplane. You won't find that in the deepest, darkest reaches of Africa.

Give it a chance. There are numerous options available in the US to help you out...sounds to me like the issue with the FBO was simply a misunderstanding in phraseology or terminology.

[CL300]

Since english is not my native langage; I may had interpreted ' taking a G4 soon to USA' as a pilot asking for advice; the VERY complete answer from supermoix should have been the end of it with a 'thanks mate'.
Post #5 (my understanding again); was again understood as a UK vs the world attitude (primitive, better in Africa and the like)...
therefore my answers;

Now, if this person is NOT a pilot, but a kind of ops guys querying data; well; this does not reassure me more, but I do apologize for the words written.

All in all , with the usual web tools / ops tools, it took me less than 5 minutes to download a perfect briefing on how it is made. ( so I can only suggest to spend less time on pprune, and get more education) :p

For the fact that this was not an immediate answer, sorry bob, but lunch time is lunch time :ok:

[dc9-32]

Moving on (yawn).....:zzz:

CL300, you are boring (no offence).

[CL300]

I know...:E

[dc9-32]

Out of interest, how is that systems such as Jeppesen, PPS & SITA etc, file in the USA using AFTN but the plan isn't on file at the airport of departure. Where does the plan go when you hit the "send" button :confused:

Got me thinking now......

[con-pilot]

Here, even people that can't tell the difference between "deepest darkest Africa" and the US ATC systems should be able to figure out how to use this link to file IFR flight plans.

https://www.duat.com/

If this link is too complicated, just call me and I'll file your flight plans.

[Miles Magister]

Con-Pilot

I can not seem to get that system to come up but will keep trying.

However in the mean time, if it helps the Viking you can do it from PPS by typing in the correct AFTN addresses for the FPLs. I do not have my notes on me as it is a little while since I last did it but I think I got the addresses from CAP 555. I check they are in the system by logging into Eurocontrol CFMU.

Quite often the ATC unit at airfields will not have them when you check as they do not normally show up on the airfield computers until 1hr before departure unless they received them on paper.

You can also call the EuroControl CFMU help line who I have found helpful.

Have a nice trip and do not forget to check the differences on approach charts between PANSOPS and TERPS.

MM

[con-pilot]

Con-Pilot

I can not seem to get that system to come up but will keep trying.

Hmm, sorry about that, try this one.

CSC DUATS on the Web (http://www.duats.com/)

[SNS3Guppy]

Out of interest, how is that systems such as Jeppesen, PPS & SITA etc, file in the USA using AFTN but the plan isn't on file at the airport of departure. Where does the plan go when you hit the "send" button


In the US, flight plans aren't filed at the airport. They're filed nationally. The flight plan goes in a national system. If clearance delivery at the departure airport gets your flight plan, it's because it's in the system, and has just become part of the national airspace system. That's part of the reason that, unlike deepest, darkest Africa, every controller along the way knows who you are and what you are doing...instead of having to explain it over and over as you cross FIR to FIR.

[Buzzz]

Hello,

Once you have hit the 'file flight plan' button on whichever system you are using you can contact the appropriate Flight Data Center and get your CID strip number, and use this if the tower has any issues locating your flight plan. The guys at the Flight Data Center can also see any flight plans coming into the system that have any typographical errors, and if you are nice to them they may correct it for you, rather than rejecting it. Contact details if you need them:

ZAB KZABZQZX ABQ (505) 856-4561(62)
ZBW KZBWZQZX BOS (603) 879-6859
ZOB KZOBZQZX CLE (440) 774-0490
ZDV KZDVZQZX DEN (303) 651-4255
ZFW KZFWZQZX DFW (817) 858-7585
ZAU KZAUZQZX ORD (630) 906-8306
ZHU KZHUZQZX HOU (281) 230-5629
ZID KZIDZQZX IND (317) 247-2411
ZJX KZJXZQZX JAX (904) 549-1592
ZKC KZKCZQZX MCI (913) 254-8508
ZLA KZLAZQZX LAX (661) 575-2079(77)
ZME KZMEZQZX MEM (901) 368-8453
ZNY KZNYZQZX JFK (631) 468-1425
ZOA KZOAZQZX OAK (510) 745-3380
ZMP KZMPZQZX MSP (651) 463-5634
ZMA KZMAZQZX MIA (305) 716-1648
ZSE KZSEZQZX SEA (253) 351-3698
ZTL KZTLZQZX ATL (770) 210-7696
ZLC KZLCZQZX SLC (801) 320-2568
ZHZ PHZHZQZX HNL (808) 840-6262
ZDC KZDCZQZX DCA (703) 478-1476
ZAZ PAZAZQZX ANC (907) 269-1125
ZSU KZSUZQZX SJU (787) 253-8664

Cheers,

Buzzz

[gulfstreameric]

Tx Buzz

excellent information

[refplus20]

I have used 'NATS AFPEX' to file plans internally and into and out of the USA with no problem. Go to http://www.flightplanningonline.co.uk to sign up for a free account.

[galaxy flyer]

VIKING9

Must admit, even with 20 years of international experience, I could not, on my own, file a flight plan in the UK. We use Jepp and it is automatic, did file a manual flight plan with the tower in Pointe Noire, Congo once. It worked, much to my amazement.

GF

[His dudeness]

Galaxy, I do flightplans here in Europe nearly daily and I admit that it is total crap. The whole system is a joke, regulations change on a 14 day basis, what was correct one day is different the other etcetc.
Why we have a computersystem that tells you what you CANT do instead of one that tells you what you CAN do is beyond me, all that friggin eurocontrol money goes into that (yeah we pay infrastructure and controllers as well, but the overhead is growing and growing whilst the number of controllers is declining)
So, using an agent or agency such as Jepessen is good advise in Europe.

How anyone can thing our system is 'superior' to yours is just....well, beyond me.

[avfuelman]

Speaking of agents, Jeppesen - others are available.......;)

[Phil77]

out of pure personal interest (avfuelman: my company uses "the other" flightplanning companies such as Colt for international flights :)) - being a german abroad, but never flown in europe... how is flight planning done in europe?
- Is there a quick and easy how-to available online?
- is it true that you need pay for everything, incl. weather?

I'm planning to convert my us licenses for a bit of private flying back home but I certainly have a lot to learn about procedures! :confused:

Maybe I'm brainwashed already, but from what I've heard, it sounds (as indicated above) that the european system is much more complicated, complex and sometimes antiquated than the US? :ouch:

(edited to deleted unnecessary comments that would lead into a p***ing match across the pond ;) )

[merlinxx]

Please don't compare the US with the Eurocontrol zone. In the US you've one system, in the Eurocontrol zone we have very, very many different national authorities and systems which have to be integrated. Just check EUROCONTROL - European Organisation for the Safety of Air Navigation (http://www.eurocontrol.int).

[Phil77]

I'm well aware of the regulatory nightmare in the EU (not only in aviation) - after all I lived there for most of my life...

I guess my question was more tongue in cheek, since some people on this forum claim the US system is primative, compared to the EU.

In europe flying is still an old boys club and the "who are you to question our superiority" mentality and regulation gridlock is one of the reasons I work here.

The JAA is a perfect example:
38 years ago the Joint Aviation Authorities (JAA) was founded - with one of the goals, quote: "Much emphasis is also placed on harmonizing the JAA regulations with those of the USA" - did work well hu? :E

There is a lot both sides could learn from each other.