Warning: Hainan Airlines & NetCompass

[GoForIt]

I just want to give you guys a warning about Hainan Airlines (China) and Net Compass crew leasing firm.* Three of us from the USA interviewed at Hainan over 3 months ago for the B767 Captain position. None of us got the job. They promised to reimburse the cost of the airline tickets, but so far it has not happened. Vivian Chen of Net Compass ([email protected]) told us we would get reimbursed by Hainan Air when we got to Beijing. That didn't happen. Every time we have talked to them since that time the Hainan HR representative Adam Liu ([email protected]) has come up with a new excuse or a new requirement for getting reimbursed. We have meticulously complied with every requirement, but they just keep making excuses and telling us it will be two more weeks, maybe another month.** I have a couple friends who started the interview process for the B737 a month prior to us and were hired.* They have been working for the company for 6 weeks (or in training or waiting for their work visa) and they also have still not been reimbursed for their flight tickets, and they tell me they are sure they will not be reimbursed until they are all checked out and flying the line.* The implication is clear that no one gets reimbursed until actually flying the line (And I am wondering if then?).* However, the promise to pay for flight tickets to the interview was definitely NOT contingent up taking the job at Hainan Airlines.* It was clearly stated in both the initial information sheet sent to us by NetCompass and also in personal emails. We were clearly lied to.* The three of us each spent from $1700 to $3,000 that has not been reimbursed as promised.

If you go to the interview, you should not be expecting reimbursement for flight tickets, no matter what they tell you.* And if they will tell you a bold face lie about that, I can't help but wonder what else they will lie about.* Is the contract worth the paper it is written on?* Time will tell, but I doubt it.*
*
If you go to the interview, you can expect to do the physical, take the Chinese ATP written (they will give you study materials), and a check ride in the simulator with a company check airman and a CAAC inspector from the Chinese government.* It is a busy check ride as any type rating check ride would be,* just short of about 2 hours in length and multiple failures.* It seems each check ride is different and there is no set profile, but they are big on crosswinds (90 degrees at 35 knots) and multiple system failures.* The CAAC inspector and the Company Check Airman will speak almost no English, and everything will be done through your interpreter Adam Liu.*
*
They will put you in a company owned "crew hotel" near the Beijing airport (not open to the public).* It is about a one star hotel.* We spent about 11 days in this place due to the inefficient scheduling of everything.* It is not filthy, but not sparkling clean either, extremely simple with no amenities.* It is well worn, and some rooms have holes in the plaster and water damage.* I found it kind of depressing.* The only towel provided is a small faded hand towel.* Bring your own bath towel.* There is a slow internet connection via Ethernet cord, fast enough for email and painfully slow web browsing but too slow for Skype phone calls.* The ONLY person there whom you will be able to communicate with in English will be the HR representative Adam Liu who also stays in the hotel during flight crew screenings.* No one else speaks English.* We never saw the company headquarters or met any other management people from the company (Headquarters is on Hainan island).* Hainan Air will provide your meals in the employee cafeteria, which is very simple Chinese food.* The hotel is located in a very poor area where the local restaurants are extremely basic Chinese food and there are a few local shops but not much is available.* It is not convenient to public transportation, but you can get a taxi into central Beijing from there for about 10 USD as I recall.* Once in the central part of Beijing, it is an attractive and modern city.* The only thing I really didn't like about Beijing was the obnoxious air pollution.* And be careful; Beijing is known as a city of scams, and you will encounter at least one in your time there.* You can read up on the common ones on one of the travel bulletin boards.

If you are going to pursue the job with Hainan, I would not recommend NetCompass Crew Leasing company. We found them to be less than ideal about responding to emails and giving us helpful information. I have been told that Hainan is working with 4 crew leasing companies, and the only other one that I know of for sure is GPS, or Global Pilot Service (GPSCrew Global Pilot Service Official Site (http://www.GPScrew.com)). I am not recommending them, but I do know that the other two guys I mentioned earlier (B737) used this company and seemed to get more personal attention than we did. For instance, we needed to get some documents translated into Chinese. NetCompass just told us to go hire a translator, but GPS went ahead and translated the documents for their guys.
*
I'm now working for another overseas airline (that reimbursed my ticket in cash the day after I arrived) and I'm not unhappy I didn't get the job with Hainan.* I just think you guys have a right to know in advance what to expect.*

GoForIt

[Alfredo tp]

Thanks for sharing that experience!
Have the 737 TR, and 2000+ total, so I think I wll apply withthem, but I won't use NetC., haha! Thanks a lot for the advice!
GPS, will try those...
Any recommendation on applying for 737 there? How are your buddies doing there, are they doing ok?

THX

[GoForIt]

I really don't have any special insights into the 737 program.

My friends there aren't on line yet, waiting for work visa I think. They seem to be doing OK.

GoForIt

[B737NG]

Sorry to hear what happened there to you. I am working since 12 years on contract and outside EU / US it is a common practice from small Agent´s to tie you up and lie to you just to snipe a dime out. In combination with some Oriental´s especially.

I would not recommend Central and northern China as not only the Air is dirty there and the understanding of hygene is diffrent what "round eyes and long nosed" people are used to. Are you still looking for a Job??

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[GoForIt]

"Are you still looking for a job?"

No, I ended up with my choice of two contracts, both quite good. I'm happy where I am now.

I should also clarify that it was Hainan Airlines that was responsible for the reimbursement of air fare. I do suspect Net Compass was well aware that Hainan would not follow through with payment, but I can't confirm that.

GoForIt

[Alfredo tp]

Well, good to know not to go to northern China then :-)
I am still looking for a 737 job, or whatever comes nowadays, so, I don't no if I would take something there in northern China or not...

[laic]

Is going through an agency a must or can I apply directly ?
If so, how should I go about it ? Checked on their site and could access to nothing.
That would be for A330/A340 types. Any hiring at the moment ?
One more thing, what is the age limit for joining?
tks !

[GoForIt]

laic

The only way to do it is to go through an agency. That arrangement allows them to avoid some Chinese taxes.

I don't know what the age limit is.

GoForIt

[LETSGOEFLY]

I have also had problems with this group. STAY AWAY. :ouch:

[HandoverRichard]

LETSGOEFLY: Can you give a few more details for your grievance, please. People read threads like this and a string of facts like 'goforit' gives are worth listening to. I, for one, have a LOT to win or lose, if you can back your claims up please.

[Geebz]

Don't take this the wrong way but you sort of asked for it. When pilot's are gullible enough to pay for an airline's recruitment expenses they not only expose themselves to financial loss, but they make it harder for the rest of the professional pilots out there applying for jobs. When a company tells me to pay my way to the interview or training I tell them to pound sand. They usually drop my file and move on to a more malliable candidate. If they aren't funded enough, or organized enough, to handle something basic like a pilot's air travel then they're usually not worth pursuing. It starts with problems at the recruitment level and progresses well into training and then line flying. No thanks.

Think about it for a second. These airlines have the means to finance hundreds of millions of dollars in new aircraft, but can cough up a few thousand to pay for a ticket? All they have to do is call a travel agent, drop a credit card for the ticket, and tell you it will be waiting for you at the tkt counter. If they can't be bothered with such a menial task, don't bother packing your bags for the interview. If you do, you really have nobody to blame but yourself for being so naive.

Sorry to put it that way but it's the reality of contract flying.

[GoForIt]

Hi Geebz,

No offense taken.

You sound like someone who is currently employed, not someone who is unemployed and has spent months looking for a job in this very challenging environment. In my 20+ years in this industry, this is the most difficult employment environment I've ever seen. As we watch the jobs dry up and the furlough lists get longer, we all start to lower our standards a bit.

I was certainly wary of paying for my own ticket over there, and questioned the reimbursement process repeatedly before my departure. I scoured this and other forums for any information I could find on Hainan Air and Netcompass, and could find zero info. That is why I posted my experience.

I did discover that Jade Cargo has the same process of requiring applicants to buy their own ticket over and reimbursing them, and members of this forum reported that their reimbursement arrived on time. So it was clear to me that this was not an isolated situation.

In America and Western Europe we are privileged to have access to Visa and American Express cards that are accepted almost all over the world. Some of these other countries have their own credit card systems, but they are not accepted outside of their own country, so buying a ticket on a US based airline is not so simple for them. In fact, I'm wondering about how much experience you have traveling in China? I had previously made several trips through China as an independent traveler, exploring the back roads from Shenzhen to Tibet. I was aware of these limitations on financial transactions in China.

As I mentioned at the end of my post, I went to work for another carrier in another country with the same reimbursement arrangement, and was paid in cash for the ticket a day after submitting the paperwork. So I don't think it is fair to paint all these companies with the same brush.

Many Tailwinds,
GoForIt

[HandoverRichard]

Has anybody tried to book a flight on the HNA network to get to the interview, say by making your own way to Seattle, or Brussels, then getting a HNA flight from there? If so, did they allow it without you having to fork out for the flight on their own route?

[Geebz]

Hi GoForIt,

Thanks for not getting offended.

I didn't mean to sound so harsh but sometimes we hurt ourselves more by setting up in the way you did. That said, it does appear you did your homework. And being out of work for so many months in this environment, I can only imagine your stress. Sorry, I did not know you've been out of work that long.

Hopefully thinkgs will turn for you soon.

And thanks for posting the warning on here about them. That is the first step in stopping this practice.

Believe it or not, EVEYRONE in aviation, outside the US, knows sooner or later whether the boys on prune are dragging their name through the mud.

[uhtsky]

I paid for my ticket and got the reimbursement immediately after landing in China.
I asked them why didn't they arrange it for me, the answer is because some pilots didn't come after getting their tickets.

PS It's not this agency.

[laic]

So we know of 2 agencies, who are the other ones ?
tks.

[GoForIt]

Brookfield Aviation is #3 that I know of.

[rgray]

Dec 17, '08 - I just returned from interview with Hainan Airlines, B737.
Experience about the same, paid for flight to SEA, taxes for HNA flight to Beijing. Was met at airport by HNA representative, taken to the HNA airline owned hotel, which is about a 1 star maybe, have not stayed in a 1 star before so not sure, it was clean and being repaired daily to get it or keep it in shape. It was adequate, not bad, do have a dining hall or this is normal american fast food close. I don't think GoForIt got out much, because there are great itialian, mexican and other restaurants in the area close, real close in the euro village just a 3-4 minute ($2) cab ride up the road, could even walk it but the weather was cold so i didnt. Yes towel in room is very small, no need to bring your own just ask for large towel and they will provide. Did medical, written ATP and sim check. There is no interview as such, if you can pass all the test(s) your hired. I passed the medical, passed the ATP written (high failure rate there so study) and did fine in the sim.. I agree sim is up to whoever gives it, not a really set profile, did get multiply failures but i think that is just to save time, not a big deal. Only thing stressful about sim is not knowing what they want you to do because of language problem, my chinese is a little rusty, about like me english (i'm a texan). also, on the sim ride, use the autopliot like a real flight, they didnt like the fact i didnt use it and questioned me about that in the debrief, my answer - most screening rides i had done in the past was to see if i could fly not turn on the autopliot, i assured them i love the autopilot, guess they liked that answer. Does seem to be a high failure rate, about 50% by my guess and experience with others there. Not sure that is any worse than an american company. Planes are nice, english is not widespread and the air is better than before the olympic games (so i am told, if that is true glad i was there prior). but on the bright side will stay cat ii current........
also told would be reimburshed in beijing and now told (since i was hired) that i will get paid once back in beijing for training and have a training date. i blasted my contractor about this and and got a quick answer back to send in my reciepts and i would be paid right away, easier to put pressure on them after your hired.
so????? pay, sked and other seems good, i found china better than sand box (middle east), india or africa.....at least it is clean. scams........sure there are just like in america and everywhere else....be sure to use marked cabs, lots of impromptu cabs (people with cars) trying to get you to take them, but they are not worth the headache, they quote you a price then when you get there they claim they quoted you double and want you to pay double, i didnt....but it was a headache.

bottom line, i am going... i need a job and this seems like a good time to get out of america for at least 4 years, (you can figure it out). anyone wanting more information please contact me [email protected]



robert

[clrblu22]

Any hiring into the A330 ?

[GoForIt]

I was the first poster in this thread, and a follow up is appropriate.

To be fair to HNA, I must tell you that a year after the interview I was fully reimbursed for all flights. Partial reimbursement came through almost 6 months after the interview, and the remainder came just a couple weeks ago. The HR rep apologized for the delay, and blamed it on the accounting office, as their outdated rules for reimbursement wouldn't accommodate online ticket purchases. I had long ago given up on ever seeing the money, so it was a pleasant surprise. It appears to me that Mr. Adam Liu went to some trouble to get the issue resolved, and for that I am thankful.

[JotaJota]

"as their outdated rules for reimbursement wouldn't accommodate online ticket purchases..."

100% accurate w/ HNA! :ugh:

[captain_reboot]

A happy ending !!! :D

Anyone have any pros and cons with other China recruiters such as VOR Holdings or Pegasus?? Any other agencies to recommend??

Currently looking for a new contract on the 777 left-seat. Any information will be much appreciated.

Thanks and hang in there guys!!!! :ok:

[JotaJota]

From VOR I have heard OK things. TR and DM seem to be OK... About Pegasus, stay away!

GL

[joethechinesepilot]

Jota,
do you work for YNR? can you interview with multiple airlines before you accept a position? I saw on other thread for SHA and WAS that once you're there you're there til you leave or pay huge fine..true?

[AlvinZane]

Doug Mowdry with VOR is current 777 Capt and operates VOR / China recruitment with a long time friend Ted Revis, he has doing business in China for 16 years and knows the ins and outs, plus can speak and write the language.

I used them a couple of years ago and though the were the most professional group I have dealt with in the recruiting game.

[AlvinZane]

From past experience, I would use VOR Holdings, GPS, WASINC. Good honest people.

I have not have good luck with Dave Mathews, Pegasus, Net Compass, PrimAir.

Just my opinion.

[PILOT159]

I went for the first interview with Air China Cargo and dealt with a Ms. Vivian Chen from Net Compass. I was not even given proper preperation
material including the hotel and medical information. I realized how poor Netcompass is when I saw how well briefed the other candidates were.

I passed both simulator and medical but needed to return to accomplish the ATPL written exam which could not be scheduled due to NetCompass failure. Based upon my dealings with Net Compass I am terminating my relationship with Air China and believe myself fortunate that all I had to spend was the cost of a Visa.

They are incompetent and completely unreliable and I suspect corrupt theives who will steal you blind.


AVOID NETCOMPASS AT ALL COSTS.

[169west]

Hi all

anyone ever consider Paramount Aviation for HNA? And how's the overall adventure?