Go North or get a real job?

[crank1000]

A question to all the economic/aviation expertsout there. As I have now got my licence/life etc sorted out and am ready to head North, I have been offered a very good paying job with a half decent aviation player down south.(Not flying)

My question is, do I take the job and see what happens to the aviation sector in the next few months or go up now while there is still some work to be had and make myself more employable for the future?

I'm leaning towards staying put for a while and getting some money back in the bank as well as seeing where the economy goes. I know the first few things that suffers in a downturn is tourism and aviation.

Any wisdom on this matter is much appreciated.

[neville_nobody]

If you want to be a pilot then go North and go flying. Sitting around doing desk jobs won't get you any closer to an airline job. People leave high paying professional desk jobs to go bush and be pilots so the sooner you bight the bullet the better. If the music stops too, you will be better off in the industry than on the outside.

[PlankBlender]

nuff said, nn nailed it, mod, pls close this thread :E

[crank1000]

Many people have left good paying desk jobs to go and fly but did they do it in the face of the biggest stock market dive since the Great Depression? I think not. I cant see how being in an industry when it tanks is better than not being there when it tanks?

Telling me to man up and get out there is an answer I have already heard. I would like to know if anyone has a differing opinion? I was wondering if anyone who was starting out when the '87 crash happened would like to comment?

Nev and Plankbender, if you fall into the catergory I just mentioned, then I will take your advice graciously and leave this thread alone.

Plankbender, who gave you the power to tell the moderator which threads should stay open and which one's shouldn't?


Cheers

[Green gorilla]

I started out in 89 and I can tell you young guys starting now are in the best position to be in.

[Mr. Hat]

At the end of the day if you really want to fly you got to head off. I know people that got the licence ect then got into office jobs and are still there years later. So the question is why did they fork out 60k for a licence? Had they gone up north they'd be more than likely in or close to a jet job that pays more than their current office job. I suppose what you are concerned about is recruiting coming to an end and getting stuck in ga forever. Understandable concern but you have to decide to either take the risk or spend the rest of your life telling people that you are "actually a pilot" whilst standing at the photocopier.

Personally had you not already forked out the cash for the training I'd say take the office job and forget the pilot thing. You've made the sacrifice and now you have to go and find out what this flying thing is all about.

Good luck.

One more point is relevant i suppose. How much money is the office job offering? Some flying jobs in ga pay pretty well today.

[PlankBlender]

Uh, crank, just trying to be funny :}

Honestly, if you can get a job up north, take it, a lot of the companies there are integral parts of the transport infrastructure in remote Australia, and won't be affected much by less Japs trampeling the reef..

I would argue the chances of you losing your desk job would be about as high as losing your flying job up north in a full blown recession (which isn't too likely here either btw). Maybe even bigger as you're more at the money making end of the business as a pilot than as a paper pusher..

I'll be doing the same, plan is to finish the CPL's this year and then get a flying job somewhere. I won't put my career plans on hold just because the economy isn't going full steam ahead. As a case in point, I made most of my money as an IT consultant in the years immediately following the dot com collapse.. individual fortune often has very little to do with the state of the economy..

Go get 'em, tiger :ok:

[waeco]

just wondering if anyone knows of any sea plane companys that will take someone on with a bare cpl and float endorsement in australia /new zealand

[tinpis]

You would stay in Melbourne rather than move to DARWHINE? :hmm:

[Howard Hughes]

You will never have a more 'real' job than the one you will have up North!:ok:

I too started out in 89, no economic downturn will ever make it harder to get a job than it was in 89/90! Guys with 6000 hours and jet time working as ab-initio instructors and doing single engine charter!:eek:

Whether there is an economic downturn or not, during the wet there will still be communities whose only way of getting food/supplies will be by air, they will always need pilot's! The $8 Billion being spent to 'kick start' the economy, is nothing compared to what the Government spends up North on an ongoing basis to provide communities with what can only be described as 'basic' services!:ooh:

Go now, get the experience and when the economy turns upward again you will be in a prime position to prosper when times are good! It all comes down to what YOU want...:ok:

[neville_nobody]

Many people have left good paying desk jobs to go and fly but did they do it in the face of the biggest stock market dive since the Great Depression? I think not. I cant see how being in an industry when it tanks is better than not being there when it tanks?

Telling me to man up and get out there is an answer I have already heard. I would like to know if anyone has a differing opinion? I was wondering if anyone who was starting out when the '87 crash happened would like to comment?

Mate times for jobs have NEVER BEEN SO GOOD FOR GA!!

I see jobs ADVERTISED IN A NATIONAL PAPER that when I went North you were literally queuing up for. You would go to drop off a resume and there were already other guys around handing them out. The fact is up north they need aviation to get around so even if the worlds ends tomorrow jobs will always be there. Now is the time, get in while it is easy to get in.

Times for getting a GA job have NEVER been better

You should also watch this, sounds like you need it.:}

YouTube - Chopper harden the fuk up (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=RVXGoQSzmms)

[Unusual-Attitude]

Economic down turn or no...the whole business of spending between $60 to $80 k on a licence, when all you can realistically expect to make (to start with at least) is at best $33 ish flying singles...makes the whole process a little ludicrous when compared to other 'professions'...why get 'sensible' now!? :hmm:

[Hasselhof]

I'm working out bush in the NT, building my hours and I can tell you simply that there are jobs up here right now. I was GA roadkill for a while and have made the leap back into the industry and when you compare GA now to say five years ago these are days of plenty. First jobs are much easier to come by and upgrades to twins / city bases are fast. If you want to be a pilot and go the GA route in Australia right now is as good as it gets.

[MACH082]

25k to drive a single?? maybe two years ago if you read pprune to much and still thought that pilots were falling out of trees up north!

33k is the minimum you can be paid f/t and most of them pay it!

[Shark Slayer]

Well.........do you want to be a pilot?

Then take the flying option!

[Dupre]

The industry IS facing difficult times ahead, and those difficulties are not likely to go away. But you are vulnerable to this in any aviation company - whether you're pushing a pen or a throttle.

I don't know what your aviation goal is - but consider this: You may well be too late for the industry - and never make it to your goal. But when you're 80 years old, sitting in your rocking chair, looking back on your life, will you regret not giving it a crack and finding out?

I actually gave up on my dream of being a pilot back in 2002 for various reasons (including that aviation was doomed). BUT I changed my mind a few years later, and now regret wasting that time! If I had not dilly dallied, I would be much closer to a big shiny jet and a huge pay packet :sad:

Having said all that, my dad would tell you not to be so stupid and go with a nice proper job in a stable industry!

Just my 2c.

[hoss]

crank1000 get a job as a hairdresser mate. A real Pilot wouldn't ask such a question, its so obvious.

all the best mate:).

[Unusual-Attitude]

Hoss...harsh but fair...like ya work!!!!:E

Crank....grow some, and listen to yer Uncle Chop Chop!

UA

[compressor stall]

As long as there is a welfare system in Northern Australia, there will be plenty of flying to go around....

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

rest of your life telling people that you are "actually a pilot" whilst standing at the photocopier.

Damn, that is so me at the moment... well, I don't tell everyone I'm a pilot, I have me pride.

Take is from someone who is currently between aviation jobs (I'm just taking a breather for the family) FLY FLY FLY. GA up North is recession proof. communities have to eat, the government has to get nurses and doctors to the community, lawyers and judges have to make the rounds, Child Protection needs to shuffle people every day, community members have to get into town or go stir-crazy, funerals have to go ahead (body flights, mourners and hangers-on), babies have to get to hospital to get born and get back to the bush (before we taint them with our city-slicker Gardiya ways no doubt), the post (and banking) won't fly itself, etc etc etc.

FLY NOW or I'll take your job... or I'll just keep hanging around the photocopier/water-cooler/cubicle 31C ("hey, it's a lady") in my silk scarf, leather helmet and Ray Ban Aviators http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/252_ship_captain.gif regaling everybody with tales of how cool I really am.

FRQ CB

[Transition Layer]

Is he trying to say that flying isn't a "real job"? He might have a different idea after hand pumping a couple of hundred litres of gas into a 210 in 40+ degree heat before loading it up to MTOW with smelly brothers and heading off into some unbearable turbulence you can't climb out of for a few hours. That's a "real job" as far as I'm concerned!!!

[RENURPP]

Bean counters and investors sit behind desks, they are not real jobs!!!! :yuk:

Mate you need to get out of your cosy office and see the real world, your view of what goes on sounds very distorted. :eek:

Tourism is but a small part of the GA industry. Aviation up here revolves around our indigenous brothers and support for them. (contractors, electricians, builders, and government workers and the like) :uhoh:

If you are expecting to turn up in a suit and have mum dad and the kids boarding your aircraft wanting you to fly them to a five star resort you are way off the mark, more likely to be loading your aircraft full of frieght at 0600 in 100% humidty and heading off into the wet season to a aboriginal community in a rather smelly OLD aircraft, and learning a bit in the process.

Its government money that keeps aviation going and that is unlikely to change. The airline industry is different story, but sounds like that’s a few years off for you.

[tinpis]

Tourism is but a small part of the GA industry. Aviation up here revolves around our indigenous brothers and support for them. (contractors, electricians, builders, and government workers and the like)

Just announced $700 million for indige housing
Thats 700 houses at a million a piece.

[300Series]

"Just announced $700 million for indige housing"

Does that include the free maintenance they get when they destroy and trash their houses?
What about building them a new house after one of their brothers died in the current one? (I have seen a new paint job fix this)

300

[Tempo]

By posting on this site do you really expect to get the answer you are looking for?? If you are absolutely passionate about flying and have a goal to achieve, then you already know the answer (it's pretty obvious that to get an airline job you need hours in the logbook). However, if you are too comfortable to leave the big smoke of Melbourne then trying to justify it with talk of downturns etc is just smoke and mirrors. I was in the same position 10 years ago so I am speaking from experience. Get out there, take a risk and see what happens. It's really as simple as that.

[gadude]

If you have to ask yourself that question, i suggest take that reall job mate.
There will be plenty off others who dont mind to go up to the NT and do a not so real job.
at least you can carry on dreaming off an airline job one day.
While the other guys and girls will get there.

stay in melbourne mate, that way you will never have to worry about CB's, dirt strip's. interesting and smelly pax. high humitity. hot wx. working out diversions in flight etc.


I did my bit in the NT and loved almost every minute off it.
but then i never would want a reall job lol.

and if i was inbetween jobs and my old boss would ask me to fill in, i would be back in a flash.

anyway, have fun in the real world with a real job. earning real money.
(they pay in monopoly money in the NT)

If you do like to become a pilot than pull your finger, get up north and see what it's like, you can always go back to the real world and get a real job.

cheers:ok:

[Mr. Hat]

I have a mate that whilst everyone packed up and went north kept putting it off and off and off. 10 years later he is living in the same squallor with out of date Jepp packets on the floor and Qantas faded posters on the wall whilst every single person that packed the car and stuck at it is now flying a jet making semi reasonable money. No they are not top earners as jet jobs aren't top paying jobs anymore but they are starting to reap rewards. He on the other hand is still doing in between jobs in unrelated industries.

A million come backs later he's living like a ga bush pilot in a capital city without the flying.

I think you should have a go having invested the money. The music is playing you'd better get up and dance.

[hoss]

crank1000, she's over there in the corner and looking hot, she has her eye on you, go and ask her for a dance.

in years from now you'll be thanking us.

[Towering Q]

Just don't tell her you're a pilot!!:yuk::yuk:

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

she's over there in the corner and looking hot, she has her eye on you, go and ask her for a dance

Enjoy the moment - but remember, she may not look so good next morning when you're sober!

Dr :8

[Rob D]

I know that feeling!

[no oil pressure]

I dare say its been done to death before but I'll ask the question anyway. I've got the map of the top end out and am looking on where to head for that first illusive job. My plan is to jump in the car at the start of next year with a fresh CPL and MECIR and cut for it.

First stop is Emerald, Longreach, Mt Isa, Tennant, Katherine, Kunnas, Halls Creek, Fitzroy River, Derby and the last stop being Broome if nothing has come up. Can anyone think of anything else that I haven't thought of apart from Horn (I think prospects up there aren't good for a freshy) to head to?

Any advice would be great! :ok:

Cheers

no oil

[Green gorilla]

Port Hedland

Newman

Karratha

Exmouth

[crank1000]

Just to make one thing clear. It put the real job headline to get people to read it. If it was looking like another up north thread I thought no one would bother.

The aim of what I did was to gauge if anyone suggested I hang around and see what happens. As I'm completely new to aviation, I have little idea about how economic events effect the industry up north as a whole. It's not about me not being passionate enough or wanting it enough, It's just sometimes your head has to rule your heart. As EVERYONE has said I should still get up there and go for it then that is what I will do. I was very interested in the comment about up north aviation is that it's alomost recession proof. This was the sort of information I need to make a balanced judgement on going or staying.

I thank everyone for the input they provided and hope that thier career in aviation is as happy and succesful as I hope mine will be.

Cheers

Crank

[gadude]

few operators in darwin as wel.

Crank, if you are worried about the economics in flying, than i think you are heading for the wrong industrie.

not kicking you down or trying to blow your bubble, but the days you would make a sh#t load off money in aviation are gone, at least for most off us.

but than most off us have lived on 2 minute noodles for a while, i do think that up north with the payrates these days you will be able to change that diet to rice and chikken a few times a week.:D

I think by the time you make a decent living you will be flying something big and shiny with maybe 4 big engines on it? or maybe 2 very big onces?

I am not really up to speed with airlines however.
If you have a pasion for flying, go north. give it your best shot. look at all the interesting things you will be doing and will be seeing. (crocs buffeloo's big CB's etc)

don't worry bout the locals, they dont eat you. they might smell a bit and if your luckey they won't pee in your plane much lol.
(only once in my case)
Your worst case scenario, you go up north, you do it for like 2 years, you hate it. and than you go back to down south,
what have you lost??
2 years off a decent sallary. and the knowledge that aviation is just not for you.
still you will have a bag full off stories to tell. and you have given it your best shot.:D
And you never have to think, what if...
because you have done it.

all the best and good luck:ok:

[Towering Q]

Can anyone think of anything else that I haven't thought of

Don't forget Jabiru, haven't been there myself but have worked with plenty of guys/gals who got their first gig flying around Kakadu.

[gadude]

i see someone mentioned karatha, They got karatha flying service over there, i droped in there last week for some wx and notams, seems like a profesional and friendly bunch. and operate from piston singles to twin otter. (and maybe more that i didnt see)

[RENURPP]

Did I miss something or was Darwin missing from your list??

More GA here than just about anywhere in Australia I would have thought.

[Mr. Hat]

Jabiru/Oenpelli

Canarvon

Newman

Kalgoorlie

Bussleton

Albany

Might be worth looking into a few cattle stations if you can't find anything in the above.

[Towering Q]

That should be...Karratha, Carnarvon and Busselton.

Not sure that there would be much on offer for a newby at Busselton or Albany....nice wine and waves though.:ok:

[wishiwasupthere]

Do the operators in Geraldton hire new CPLs?

[gadude]

Ring them up and ask mate, or better still if you happen to be in the area, drop in and have a chat:ok:

[scavalenger]

apart from our smelly brothers, humidity and the rest, don't forget sometimes to/from the community if you get lucky, you might get the body bag or coffin runs...atleast some of us experience this as part of the flying up in NT..Gosh the smell wouldn't go off for weeks inside the plane!

[maxgrad]

Took a coffin on a scenic around the rock and olgas on the way home to a community once, the passenger was speechless......

Just read the thread, think Nike!

[Unusual-Attitude]

Good on ya crank...go for it! If you're willin to travel...speak to Eric 'Rollo' Rouleston of Norwest Airwork in Exmouth...he takes fresh CPL's...you'll fly yer butt off during whale shark season, and manta spotting and scenics the rest of the time, just in C172/152's but it's a quic 500 hrs (ask for the Coral Bay gig, be your own boss/fly more)...he's given alot of guys their start...rough diamond and good bloke if you're prepared to work.

UA