Is This Really Worth It, What's Your Opinion?

[alexpilot2008]

I feel this is the best section to write this post, so apologies in advance if you feel this section is irrelevant.

At the moment with so many airlines going bust, pilot jobs are like gold dust, every newly trained pilot has worked their a*** off for so long and has undergone that steep learning curve to enable that dream career, so they too can get their wings, and one day bring the left seat just that little bit closer.

I too, is on my 'own' track to the ATPL route, difference is, is that i am doing this modular, module by module one at a time, and as and when i can afford another lesson, lets take it theres a lot of hours to be gained and its very expensive, there's not one day that goes by where i imagine myself in the cockpit of the 737-800 taking passengers to their destination, i know its a long way off but realistically, i could have an ATPL in 10 years (id be 34), but with all the havoc within the airlines at the moment, is there going to be any work if i qualify, it seems that everyone wants to be a pilot at the moment, and realistically half of them are actually doing something about it, but with so many pilots qualifying and looking for work, is there even going to be any work, enough work to count for £60,000 worth of training, will i get offered just the dribs and drabs of the sector, or is the Cessna and the Piper Arrow just going to be my fait? i am determined to reach the ATPL and fly the jets, but in 10 years time do you recon the industry might be a little more inviting to newly trained pilots, to me its like saying how longs a piece of string as you cant predict the future, shall i just aim for nothing more than a CPL and save myself the money, stress & worry, and if more pilots are needed at that time just apply for additional training to get me to the ATPL.

Is it really worth it at the moment aiming for the ATPL?

(An ATPL is the ultimate license to have but at £60,000 with potentially no return on work in the future seems a little expensive)

Need your advice please.

[aimskyhigh88]

if its your passion, it will be worth it.

[Nello]

At your age and with the same worries I decided to discontinue my Commercial training. 10 Years later I regretted.
Now I'm doing my ATPL.

At the end of the day it'll depend what are your goals and dreams in life.
Good luck :ok:

[Nozwaldo]

Having a long term ambition is better at the moment. Build your hours and get a night rating (presuming you already have PPL) and have a bit of fun. Just be aware of the time limits for ATPL exams, 36 months from completion to gain CPL/IR or you go around again and re-do the 14 exams, so don't do them too early if the industry still isn't looking so good by then. I think it's still a valid ambition and say go for it, just slowly and cautiously and get all the necessary information before committing to the next step.
Unfortunately, I have to get CPL/IR by Dec 2009 or the exams run out! Still going for it though.

Noz

[Atomic Rooster]

A question I've asked my self many a time ......... and as usual with every topic, there will be differnet camps and everyones circumstances will generally be different too !

http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/290736-worth-anymore.html

I decided NO. And given the state of things lately I'm glad I never caved a bought a TR and then worked like a bast@rd for peanuts. However, .........deep down I'd still love to do it and reckon that on the whole I'd enjoy it. I just feel I'm in a situation now where I have too much to give up ! The 65k is now more like £75k !!

Atomic R.

[G SXTY]

Aviation is entering one of it's periodic downturns, just as it does every 7-10 years or so. Jobs for newly qualified pilots will be very hard to find for the next 2 or 3 years, but the industry will eventually pick up again and come back stronger than before - it always does.

Now is the time to slow down your training, work full time to fund flying in your spare time. That's what I did, the CPL/IR (or frozen ATPL, which is what I think you're referring to) took me several years and cost around £45k, but I managed to pay for most of it as I went along, and my debts are very small compared to many people.

As to whether it's worth it, well no-one can tell you what to think, and you are wise not to underestimate how difficult it is to make it to the airlines. But - and it's a big but - now I'm there, I think it's the best job in the world. I'm being paid to do my hobby, I love going to work every day - hell, I even miss it when I go on holiday - how many people can say that about their job? No two days are the same, and the view from the office window is spectacular. Was it worth all the cost and heartache to get there? Absolutely. :ok:

My story, for what it's worth:

http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/333092-zero-hours-airline-pilot-my-story.html

Best of luck.

[alexpilot2008]

Thanks for all the responses!

I suppose you really have to think, why do you want to be an airline pilot?

If an airline only consisted of Cessna 182's where you could only transport 2 passengers at a time, you got paid 1/5th of the wage of an airline job as FO, would you still want to do the job?

If Ryanair thought that they could earn as much money flying cessna's as they did 737's and officially you would be called an 'airline pilot' because you fly an airline aircraft as a pilot, then would you do the job?

Or is there just something about the 737 that says fly me, you look good in me, im fast, im big and fun to fly, but to be honest most of your time in a 737 will be in auto pilot, where as in a cessna you are doing real hands on flying, flying it all the way!!!

Would you rather:

Have a PPL and own your own aircraft and have real fun flying in spare time without ever having to fear losing your job.

OR

Have an ATPL, be in loads of debt, may never get a job, lose family commitment, earn peanuts BUT GET TO FLY A 737 EVENTUALLY ONE DAY!

What would you do?

Im thinking the ATPL is the daddy of all licenses, but im thinking that i will be happy with a CPL and a share of an aircraft, plus get to say that i have my commercial pilots license, that on its own is an achievement in its own right! Id be happy with that, would you?

[Rj111]

It certainly is a daunting task and we are definately cursed that the thing we aspire to be is so difficult now to get into, and such expensive and risky challenege. I have questioned it myself but if you put the jet job on a pedestal then i think you can set yourself up to be disappointed.

If you focus on enjoying the learning process then i think it can be worthwile - don't think about the end goal so much. I also think you have to work hard at your job and get a good wage, so the costs don't seem so bad. And i also believe you should never get yourself in debt.

At the end of the day if it's the thing you really want i life then it probably will be worth it.

[skyflyer737]

Either stick with a PPL or go for your frozen ATPL (ie CPL/IR). Aiming for just a CPL is a waste of time and money as almost no one will give you a job with just a CPL.

The ATPL exams are not much harder than the CPL exams and while you're studying anyway, you should do the full ATPL exams.

[Vortex Thing]

Skyflyer cost is a relative thing. I had to secure loans on my house to pay almost £20k for my 737 type rating when I had already spent the £60k plus to get everything else. Without the type rating I would have been offered none of the jobs I have been to date.

However I did this with the backing of my wife and with both of us in the knowledge that if it didn't work out we could loose our family home. I would rather be homeless and still flying than have the house and not be BUT that is because my wife and I think it's worth it. Only you know what worth it means.

If you went to university rather than work aged 18 and decide to pursue becoming a lawyer or a doctor you will easily spend a similar amount of money before you have value to your profession so the decision should be about how you go about funding the route rather than asking if it is worth it. If you do not know right now that you would give everything you have gladly to do this job then give up now as there are far too many out there who are willing to sell granny to step on your shoulders to do it. I am sadly but unashamedly one of them. I will never anything other than kicking and screaming do anything other than this for a living but then again that's because I think that anything is worth it.

[Jumbo744]

if its your passion, it will be worth it.


:D my thoughts exactly :ok:

[alexpilot2008]

To be honest, i am planning to buy outright my 737 type rating training, 20k to get me in the seat of a 737 seems well worth it, if 20k gets me in a 737 after ATPL frozen, then i couldn't think of a better way to blow 20k, i think flying a 737 to pay 20k of debt is one really cool way to pay off debt if you look at it this way....

its like someone saying to you......'' oi you, you owe me 20 grand, you better get in that 737 now and start flying to pay off that debt ""

you wouldnt get me in that plane any quicker.

Worth it?

Definitely... !

[Celtic Pilot]

alexpilot, dont take anu offense to this but you sound like a bit of a mug if you are going to pay 20K for a type rating. Now that RYR has stop recruiting for this year (until nxt spring being reported) how do you plan getting a job!!!!!

Have you missed the print on the requirements stating ''''At least 500 hours on type''''

Prsides most airlines prefer if you go to their specific TRTO and not some random one!!!!

Just abit of advice if you really think that Willie Walsh or MOL will walk up to you and and ask you if you could fly their 737's to pay of your debt!!!!!

:ugh:

I take it back you dont sound like a mug, you ARE 1 if you do that!!!!

[Jumbo744]

alexpilot,

i think it's normal to be worried about future jobs, but I think you should do things one at a time. Don't worry, just work hard on your training for now, get your licences, then when you will be done, think about jobs.
Nobody is guaranteed a job anywhere in any field, wether it's aviation, health, marketing, but if you don't try you'll never know right? If it's your passion then don't think, just work hard during your training, and hopefully you will find a job when the time comes.

About the 737 type rating, I wouldn't pay for that if I was you. You will graduate with around 200 hours, airlines won't care about which type rating you have, they will just see that you only have 200h TT.

Good luck.

[BerksFlyer]

To be honest, i am planning to buy outright my 737 type rating training, 20k to get me in the seat of a 737 seems well worth it, if 20k gets me in a 737 after ATPL frozen, then i couldn't think of a better way to blow 20k, i think flying a 737 to pay 20k of debt is one really cool way to pay off debt if you look at it this way....

its like someone saying to you......'' oi you, you owe me 20 grand, you better get in that 737 now and start flying to pay off that debt ""

you wouldnt get me in that plane any quicker.

Worth it?

Definitely... !


All of this I find concerning.

[Husky One]

If you can get a 737 job at present by buying a 737 rating, I'll eat my hat..lightly toasted on rye bread. When I mean job, I mean proper job..not hero for 6 months followed by the ever growing scrapheap. If you are parting with cash because Mickey the Marketeer at some 'Training Establishment' has suggested you're a cert to get hired then think again. On the other hand if you have a legimate job offer in writing before you start then you have 2 choices:
1) take the job before they change their mind (and I'll bet they will)
2) frame the job offer and put it in a safety deposit..it's currently worth more than gold.
Whether or not you choose to pay for a rating is your call. Just don't be swayed by intense marketing. Many schools are just trying to get bums on seats and will tell you anything to make it happen (because they'll end up bust otherwise). Also consider that RYR have stopped hiring and Easyjet are laying cadets off this winter.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings but that's the reality at present. On a brighter note..it's not raining :uhoh:

[G-STAW]

im in the same position guys,

im currently working on the ramp at MAN, at the same time im studying for my maths and physics at A-LEVEL. Next year im planning to go over to america to obtain my PPL.

Ok, while the above seems a good plan at the moment, going any further after thats seems rather pointless keeping in mind the "current climate"....

My revised plan is to go ahead and obtain my PPL next year, then 2010 go back to america and obtain my a CPL.....

G-STAW

[flying macaco]

Reckon it's best to wait for a provisional job offer before forking out for the TR. Alot of airlines seem to offer this kind of deal so I reckon get through the interview first then focus on the TR with a course approved by the airline and the prospect of going straight into the job on completion of the course.

Thats my humble opinion anyway. Thats the way it worked for me and got a few hundred hours on the 737 NG.

Alot of hard work (hate to sound like a loreal advert) but it's worth it.

[spitfirebbmf]

Go for it, but like a few other posters take the training slowly and keep an eye on the job market and aviation news for the upturn which will come.

I am 40 years of age and will be doing the PPL in 2010 and some hour building and starting the ATPL grounds when I'm 45 so training finished when I'm 47!!!!

Should be plenty of time for a upturn in the market. I know the age thing is against me but not really looking to fly airliners more the freight side interests me, also I wont have any debts. Money or wages is not an issue (I'm single no kids no mortgage at the mo !!!)

So to get back on track go for your dream don't regret not trying, try to save then fly instead of borrowing (I'm working 90hour weeks in a taxi to pay for my training NEEDS MUST) take a lesson a week and enjoy the PPL hour building, when you have the funds and the market looks good go for the ATPL Grounds and CPL/IR.

Im looking forward to the day I wake up with a smile knowing I'm doing a job I love

GOOD LUCK:ok: