RAN historic flight dumped?

[Trojan1981]

I have heard a rumour that the RAN histroric flight, based in Nowra is to be dispanded by the Navy and the aircraft 'disposed of'.
Does anyone know anymore about this? Apparently the FAA Museum can't have the aircraft as they are funded by the RAN and have been told they have sufficient examples of each type.
The Tracker is in the middle of, or has completed a major overhaul and is apparently airworthy again. There are also two DC3s, a UH-1 Iroquois and other aircraft that were being restored to fly.
Does anyone know what is planned for these a/c?

I hope not more of this:

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh68/trojan1981/track4.jpg

[ampclamp]

thanks for the heads up.would be a shame if this occured.

[Flyingblind]

Could we not ask that nice Mr Rudd to put a few coins towards the Navy to preserve these 'Pensioner' Aircraft?

He seems to be in an expansive mood to spend our cash of late so it might be a good time tohit him for it.

[Brian Abraham]

Trojan, that's a photo when they were pristine, with all due respect I think you mean "I hope not more of this". :{
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/babraham227/S-2002.jpg

[Trojan1981]

Ouch! Is that one of the aircraft that was flown out of NW in the mid nineties? Are they just stored? Indoors? Its a shame to see.

[VH-XXX]

From memory there are 12? Trackers across 2 hangars at West Sale which is where this photo was taken by Brian A.

Is there any truth to the supposed fact that there were only a couple of working engines and they were all flown out with the same engine?

Is it also true that they were purchased privately to be sold to the Singapore Navy or Airforce or something similar but the deal fell through?

There's probably 4 or more hidden away somewhere in this pic.

http://users.netconnect.com.au/~njah1/hangar.jpg

[wessex19]

here is a tracker post hangar fire, ones above are still in better nick!!

http://www.adf-serials.com/gallery/albums/Tracker-N12-153599/AMOF_N12_153599.jpg


RAN trackers in better times landing on HMAS Melbourne

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/S2G-lands-on-melbourne.jpg/800px-S2G-

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Final_approach_to_HMAS_Melbourne.jpg/

[C-change]

Trojan 1981,

Not sure what is happening funding wise but theTracker was on the flight line this week conducting engine runs. Sounded great.
Rumours suggested that it was going to be flying at the up coming air show 26th Oct but its been 12 yrs since the engines were last run up.

The UH1H was also flying yesterday and also in the program for 26th.

[Agony]

UH1B :ok:

[komac2]

The UH1H was also flying yesterday and also in the program for 26th.


Airday Flying Program according airday website Located on link:

Air Day Spectacular : (http://www.airdayspectacular.com.au/flying_program.html)

[VH-XXX]

What dopey website, took me 5 mins and only after I went to the location it and found the google maps area that I could work out where the airshow actually was!

[komac2]

Nowra - HMAS ALBATROSS

[C-change]

The above link worked fine. The site has heaps of info about the airshow.

If it still doesnt work try the 'Fleet Air Arm Museum' in google.

[oldpinger]

UH1B up in Oakey this weekend, making it's way south back to Nowra on Monday. Gather it's coming through Tamworth for fuel, should be able to hear it...
Be a shame to lose that wonderful 'Thump' as the Huey 'stealthily' creeps up on you.:ok:

[Trojan1981]

I have heard that there have been lots of cancellations for the airshow. No more Sea Fury by the look of things:confused:
I have also been told the historic flight is gone, by a person quite close to the operation. :(

[spanner90]

Since the Iroquois is the only aircraft from the Historic Flight to have flown in recent times (to my knowledge), what is the value of the Flight? Probably better to either sell/get rid of the few aircraft left and save some dollars. The money would be better used to increase retention/recruiting.

Apologies to the FAAA, but your efforts would be better directed to the Museum. Better still get a Cafe operator back!!!

[Trojan1981]

They are now officially gone:(. The RAN will not allow warbirds to operate from Nowra. I have heard that this might soon be Defence establishment wide policy.
I don't know what is happening with the aircraft but have heard they may go to HARS.
Does anyone know anymore?

[dat581]

What is the RAN thinking? Is this just a money problem or is some idiot bureaucrat in Canberra adding another layer of rules to jusitify their job?

[Fratemate]

I reckon Wessex has been mucking around with Photoshop. The glaring error in the photo is the wake coming from behind the carrier. Everybody knows they had to go astern so the Trackers could catch up :)

[Brian Abraham]

Fratemate, there was so much concrete in the bilges holding it together and keeping the water out there was no chance it could get up a big enough head of steam to outrun a Tracker. ;)

[frigatebird]

Show us some photos of the old Melbourne launching and retrieving Skyhawks just for balance. Watched her steaming backwards and forwards from a distant coast once, on the way back from an exercise, putting on a show for the locals (and me). Saw the Trackers last in the hanger early in '06.

[Jamair]

Is that Chuckles Bonanza in amongst those bits??

[Pontius]

YouTube - A4G & HMAS Melbourne Flight Ops Pilot Comments (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dD2rQRE0a4)

Here you go Frigatebird (he says, hoping the link works).

When they turned the Melbourne into Fosters cans we had a bunch of Antipodeans join us for some UK fun in the RN. I remember these guys talking about how short the cat shot was and comparing it to the old Ark Royal (not that I was ever on it but recall it had a short bit of runway for take-off). I was convinced it was the normal Australian trait for exageration but those boys weren't kidding :eek: Having just watched this clip, that cat shot WAS bloody short.

Far better to have a ski-jump for take-off and, for getting back to 'Mother'; stop, then land :)


(Now searching FAQs etc to see how those clever lot do the fancy embedding of UTube things in their posts)

[frigatebird]

Thanks Pontius, for the links. Makes me jealous all over again just watching what others were doing in their aeroplanes at the time.. I was only driving a QueenAir on that Easter Tuesday 8th.April '80 for the flypast (the Metro S.P. came later), and thinking I was doing pretty well.

[Three Wire]

It was 105 feet long, had a 93 foot power stroke and a hydraulic brake. It could throw an A4 off the end, at 6G acceleration at a warload. Normal was 5.4G. The desired acceleration at the end was around 5kts/sec. The endspeed was planned to be at Vs, with wind over the deck making up the rest.
The aircraft was configured with full flap, and 8 units nose up.
The ride was magnificent!!

[DBTW]

:ok:

Most of the time...:eek:

[VH-XXX]

How many of the Trackers are actually still there at Nowra and how many are at West Sale? I'm led to believe that there are 10+ examples at West Sale in the hangars in decent condition.

[Trojan1981]

I understand there is One airworthy (or close to) aircraft at NW: S-2G VH-NVX 844.
10 aircraft with Hookway in Sale
1 with HARS
3 with the FAA museum.

Several have been scrapped and there are also two in very bad condition on a property off Braidwood Rd at NW.

[SpazSinbad]

DBTW has tongue firmly in cheeky. Here is the news:

Recent 2009 AGM for FAAAA (yep 4 Ayes) had the President saying this in his address:

2009 AGM - President's Report (http://www.faaaa.asn.au/news/agm_2009_president.htm)

"My major concern during the year has been the future of the Historic Flight. At one point it looked as though the aircraft would depart Albatross. Fortunately, an impassioned letter to CN pointing out that "once the aircraft were gone they were gone forever" had the desired effect and produced a rethink. During these discussions, I was grateful for the constructive contributions of Professor Michael Hough, Chairman of the Australian Historical Flying Museum Board, who strongly believes that the aircraft should remain at Nowra; albeit under HARS direction. The present, still evolving, plan is that the Flight will remain at Albatross in a dedicated hangar adjacent to the Museum. This is not a perfect solution, but, better than the alternatives and will keep the aircraft in naval colours and flying from a naval airfield. I will keep members informed."

[SpazSinbad]

Recent 2009 AGM for FAAAA (yep 4 Ayes) had the President saying this in his address:

"My major concern during the year has been the future of the Historic Flight. At one point it looked as though the aircraft would depart Albatross. Fortunately, an impassioned letter to CN pointing out that "once the aircraft were gone they were gone forever" had the desired effect and produced a rethink. During these discussions, I was grateful for the constructive contributions of Professor Michael Hough, Chairman of the Australian Historical Flying Museum Board, who strongly believes that the aircraft should remain at Nowra; albeit under HARS direction. The present, still evolving, plan is that the Flight will remain at Albatross in a dedicated hangar adjacent to the Museum. This is not a perfect solution, but, better than the alternatives and will keep the aircraft in naval colours and flying from a naval airfield. I will keep members informed."

Previous post with URL for this has been in limbo for a day so I'll repost without the reference URL.

[A37575]

Watched her steaming backwards and forwards from a distant coast once, on the way back from an exercise, putting on a show for the locals (and me).

Was that just off the reef surrounding Nauru, by any chance? I had a wonderful view from topside.

[frigatebird]

No, I was in Honiara at the time, and the Melbourne was on her way back from an exercise near Hawaii. She had already received a 3 Solair aircraft 500' welcome flypast 35 mile out on her way in from the north-east. They were expected, and had been calling on H.F., and sending choppers on ahead.
Try it today on a carrier, any carrier, - and you'd be shot down.. looong before you got close.

[Trojan1981]

Thanks for the clarification and the link Sinbad:ok:.
Cheers for the DVDs too.

Trojan

[SpazSinbad]

frigatebird, plenty of sending and receiving of A4G photos here:

The A-4 Alley - RAN A-4 Skyhawk Operations 1968-1984 (http://a4alley.t35.com/A4-Alley/RAN-Skyhawks.html)

trojan1981, no worries.

[SpazSinbad]

This is for sure a B/S forum if one cannot post URLs.... (last post with URL now in receivership)

frigatebird, Google "A4-Alley/RAN-Skyhawks" to see plenty of 'sending and receiving' A4G pics.

trojan1981, no worries.

OK now I see that any URL will appear from within the censor bureau eventually. SIGH.

</title><font size="+1"><b><font color="#008080">RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk <font color="#FF0000">*ONLY*</font> <font color="#FF0000">1.86GB PDF</font>* download:</font></b></font> <p></p> <b><font color="#00FF00">*(Right click on the link below & 'Save Tar (http://www.a4ghistory.com/)

has a bunch of A4G relevant stuff. Click that still ratty URL above to go to: www-a4ghistory.com.

[Trojan1981]

Sinbad,

It might be because your first few posts on the forum have to be screened by the mods.
I think that stops when you are no longer classed as 'probationary ppruner'
:)

[SpazSinbad]

Trojan, Thanks. I eat prunes for breakfast and look where that got me? In the ....

[frigatebird]

spaz,
Thanks for the photos. Really nice photos of the 'Hawks and the Melbourne. Always thought it was a shame we didn't end up with the Invincible to keep a capability, but after the Falklands we weren't in the running.
What do others think?
Better go back to find some Trackers now and get back on thread.

[SpazSinbad]

FrigateBird, a Tracker specific PDF can be found here: (370Mb PDF which includes some supporting material about HMAS Melbourne)

http://www.a4ghistory.com/S2E-DAK-HS748-MELBOURNE-Nowra-ONLY-03nov09.pdf

right click on URL to download 'save as' otherwise it will download itself which may end in tears....

PDF best viewed in Windows with Adobe Reader 9.2

[aseanaero]

Is it true that the USN pilots thought the RAN A4 drivers were nuts flying the A4s off the Melbourne ?

This was a bar story I heard many years ago

[tiger19]

spaz, nice pic above of your old bird 885 there with no wheels.:ok:

[SpazSinbad]

Tiger19, Several years ago now an e-mail correspondent asked me about 'how did 885 get like that'? :rolleyes: That person was not an aviator so I got a bit caught up in trying to explain too much in one e-mail (whilst reliving it all in technicolour :) ). Anyway it was thought a 'good idea' to expand on that initial explanation - this small PDF can be found at FileFront: Download RampStrike01Sept71storyA4G.pdf (http://www.filefront.com/12844254/RampStrike01Sept71storyA4G.pdf/) (7.5Mb)

Happily (?) this started a process (with the help of said e-mail correspondent) to make the 4.4GB PDF now online at: 'a4ghistory.com' (put "www." in front). Otherwise a recent 1GB version (A4G only) can also be found at FileFront: Download 1GB_A4G_ONLY_15apr09.pdf (http://www.filefront.com/13602748/1GB-A4G-ONLY-15apr09.pdf/) (1GB)

I think this one has some "how to deck land" stuff on it which includes the rude radio remark made by the first USN Skyhawk pilot (1965) wot was boosted from the aforesaid shortish catapult. This A-4B was demoing how easy it was to operate from HMAS Melbourne. Or something. :ugh:

BTW the latest version of the 4.4GB PDF has a lot of guff about deck landing and it not only has a heap of stuff about the A4G but also the other fixed wing aircraft with even the helos included! Necessarily these latter are a minor feature because I know nowt about 'em. Otherwise the Skyhawk features, with some junk about JSF and our crab hornets even.

[SpazSinbad]

aseanaero, specifically there are some recent blog entries at NepLex that may indicate what at least recent USNers think about A4G ops:

Scooters Down Under « Neptunus Lex (http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/09/10/scooters-down-under/)
&
Hearts of Oak « Neptunus Lex (http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/10/13/hearts-of-oak-3/)
&
Chariot of the Gods « Neptunus Lex (http://www.neptunuslex.com/2008/10/18/chariot-of-the-gods/#comments)
________________

Also this RAN Jet Squadron website will have a lot of info (check the forum): Aussie Skyhawk Tales Homepage (http://www.aussieskyhawktales.org/)

Also look at 'links' and 'downloads'.

[SpazSinbad]

Today a 4GB zipped A4G Ops on HMAS Melbourne DVD Video free file download was made available at top of page: www.a4ghistory.com (http://www.a4ghistory.com) (http://www.a4ghistory.com/A4GvideoDVD.zip) 4GBs

[Trojan1981]

For those of you who knew him; LCDR Bob "Windy" Geale MBE RAN rtd, former CO of 851 Sqn RAN (Trackers) and Curator of the Fleet Air Arm museum at Nowra, Died on Sunday afternoon.

Bob Started his career flying as a Telegraphist air gunner on RN Swordfish torpedo biplanes in WWII. He went on to fly in RN Barracudas and Fireflies, as well as Avengers, Trackers and Sea Kings of the Royal Canadian Navy. He emigrated to Australia in 1970 and finished his Flying career on RAN Trackers, retiring in 1980.
In recent years Bob worked hard to preserve the history of the fleet air arm at the FAA museum and recieved a commendation for his efforts at a 'Divisions' parade at HMAS Albatross only a few weeks ago.

The funeral service will be held tommorrow at the FAA Museum, commencing at 9am.
He was a great Man and a great Naval Aviator. He will be sorely missed.


http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh68/trojan1981/Co851.jpg

[SpazSinbad]

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l261/SpazSinbad/BobGealeWindyCommendation10nov09edP.jpg

[Captain Dart]

Gents, many thanks for these posts. A thorough gentleman and personally, many fond memories of him as CO of VC-851.

[TBM-Legend]

RIP Windy...

We know where you are...

[aspinwing]

RIP.
I am proud to have been among your friends.

[Three Wire]

RIP Windy.

A thorough gentleman, and a wise counselor to junior aviators, whatever they flew.
May all your landings be an OK 3 wire!

[Critical Reynolds No]

What's the latest in relation to the aircraft?

[SpazSinbad]

This is a rumour on a rumour network(s) but YMMV:

Wings Over New Zealand - Latest on Skyhawk Sale (http://rnzaf.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Postwar&action=display&thread=1605&page=20)

"...winding up the [RAN FAA] historic flight this year as part of the save money drive..."
&
"From what I understand the aircraft are going to HARS. They will still be owned by the Navy but operated by HARS.
&
"I don't know the Firefly story except to say they had one, about 10 yrs ago. It was sent for a servicng and will likely never fly again."
&
"The UH-1B, the 2 dak's and the Tracker (which is suposed to be close to being flyable, mind you it's been like that for at least 3 yrs) [got to HARS]."

[Trojan1981]

It was announced in an Unclass section of the DRN (Aerial Activities public folder) that the final RANHF UH-1 display will be ANZAC Day next year. Then all goes to HARS. Hopefully HARS will actually fly them.

[SpazSinbad]

Fleet Air Arm Association of Australia, Annual General Meeting 2010 (http://www.faaaa.asn.au/news/agm_2010.htm)

"The meeting [AGM 2010] heard reports on the expected future developments within the Fleet Air Arm by Commodore Peter Laver, the Commander Fleet Air Arm, and on a possible tie-up between the RAN Historic Flight and HARS (the Historical Aircraft Restoration Society based at Illawarra Regional Airport at Albion Park Rail in the Illawarra).

The meeting voted to provide $2000 toward the purchase of a replica machine gun which will form part of the display of the FAA Museum's UH-1H helicopter which represents the Fleet Air Arm's involvement in the Helicopter Flight Vietnam."

[SpazSinbad]

Fleet Air Arm Association, 2010 Federal Council Annual Meeting Minutes (http://www.faaaa.asn.au/news/agm_2010_minutes.htm)

"...Members were then given a Presentation by Professor Michael Hough who is the Chairman of the HARS Museum (Historic Aircraft Restoration Society) in relation to the function of HARS and the progression on the subject of the RAN'S Historic Flight Aircraft. The presentation was wide ranging and covered all aspects of HARS operations and procedures.

Professor Hough stated it was vital for organizations such as ours to ensure that the history of Naval Aviation and its Aircraft was preserved for future generations to see and enjoy.

The President then thanked Professor Hough for his time and informative presentation and he was given an acclamation by members present...."
&

Fleet Air Arm Association, 2010 FAA Museum Report (http://www.faaaa.asn.au/news/agm_2010_museum.htm)

[SpazSinbad]

Oops - already posted here: http://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/525451-grumman-trackers.html

Ex RAN FAA West Sale Trackers FOR SALE

They are up for auction on Grays on-line auction

11 x Ex-Military Grumman Trackers (http://www.graysonline.com/sale/3003984/boats-marine-aircraft/11-x-ex-military-grumman-trackers?spr=true)

We are calling for immediate offers on 11x Ex ADF Grumman Tracker aircrafts and associated spare parts. The crafts are located in Sale, Victoria and inspection can be arranged by appointment.

The aircrafts are being offered as complete parcel only.

Included within the parcel are:
S-2G – Serial 152800
S-2G – Serial 152805
S-2G – Serial 152809
S-2G – Serial 152811
S-2G – Serial 152837
S-2G – Serial 153566
S-2G – Serial 153576
S-2G – Serial 153578
S-2E – Serial 153598
S-2E – Serial 153604
For more information please feel free to contact Scott Matthews on 0400 827 333.

http://res2.graysonline.com/handlers/imagehandler.ashx?t=sh&id=3939501&s=o&index=0&ts=635164598166000000

http://res2.graysonline.com/handlers/imagehandler.ashx?t=sh&id=3939501&s=o&index=0&ts=635164598166000000