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View Full Version : Theft from B&Q - Justified or Not?


mephisto
14th Oct 2008, 23:41
S-in-L has Daewoo Matiz. She called me out this evening coz battery was dead as a dodo. Upon inspection neg terminal was a mass of blue crystals and the rubbish connector was corroded beyond repair. I thought a small jubilee clip would get her back on the road so, at 8.30pm I headed for the nearest B&Q. 20p,50p or even a quid. I was prepared to fork out for two if they only came in twos. When I eventually found the right section I was horrified to find that they came in bags of TWENTY. Still reeling from the shock I can't remember what they cost but think it was 12 something. Anyway, at the foot of the display was a bag which had been ripped open and the contents were strewn around. After much deliberation and soul searching - honest! - I slipped my finger into a jubilee clip, and wearing it like a signet ring, walked away and when I reached the bottom of the aisle, let it slip off my finger into my pocket. Now I would never have ripped the bag open, but considering that the unit had already been rendered unsaleable and B&Q would not have had the setup to sell a single clip, was I justified in my action and what might other PPRuNers have done? I took the line that though I had technically stolen from B&Q their attempt at corporate theft from me left me with the alternative of paying for twenty yet feeling an utter prat into the bargain.

Roger Sofarover
14th Oct 2008, 23:51
Sorry. Dishonest! Not good. You sacrificed your integrity for 12, it's worth more than that. If you would have asked the shop assistant for that single jubilee clip, i bet they would have said yes!

con-pilot
14th Oct 2008, 23:55
I would have divided the cost of the entire bag by the price, walked up the cashier, put the amount down, plus tax and then just walked off.

In fact I did that very thing once, the price came out to be about 37 cents for what ever it was. I gave the cashier 50 cents and walked out.

Theft is when you take something and do not pay for the item, if you pay, there is no theft. Just because there sell something by the dozen or hundreds does not mean by law you have to buy the whole batch.

Now that does not mean you can remove a diamond from a set of jewelry and try the same thing. :p

If it is bothering you, just go back to the store, tell them you were going to ask if you could just purchase a single from the bag, but suddenly needed to go to the toilet badly and forgot.

Roger Sofarover
14th Oct 2008, 23:59
If it is bothering you, just go back to the store, tell them you were going to ask if you could just purchase a single from the bag, but suddenly needed to go to the toilet badly and forgot.

Now thats a good solution. You will feel better for it:ok:

Loose rivets
15th Oct 2008, 00:05
My mom puffed her way round the local supermarket. She'd always loved food, and ciggies and now had a though time breathing...especially at night when some apnea caused problems. She found that having a device to hold her nose open would help a lot. Macaroni! I can remember howling with laughter...but I nearly expired when she told me she wasn't willing to pay for a bag of it and had gone round the store looking for a split bag with one tube ready to be liberated.

seang
15th Oct 2008, 00:24
Mephisto
you do realise that if you get nabbed and convicted you will be forever known as the "Jubilee Clip Crook" - much like the Canoe Man? The most important thing here is, did it do the trick with your sis in law's battery?

ExSp33db1rd
15th Oct 2008, 00:33
Our Supermarket frequently makes mistakes at the till, either finger trouble, or bar-code error, or deliberate try-on I don't know, but if you don't watch every item you can almost always over pay.

Question - so what do you do on the odd occasion that the error is in your favour !!!! :ok:

Fareastdriver
15th Oct 2008, 01:00
The biggest scam from B&Q is the 5p they charge for a patheic little plastic bag. The old excuse that it is to protect the environment is daylight robbery. Lidl charge 3p for a full sized shopping bag that can survive two or three sorties, but B&Qs, which probably costs them less than a 1/thousand, barely make it back home.

mdt001
15th Oct 2008, 04:33
It was theft, pure and simple. You took the item without paying for it.

Packing numbers are irrelevant. It does not matter if they are sold singly or by the hundreds.

I think you already know this. Starting this thread to seek reassurance doesnt change anything.

It is up to the store managers to decide how to deal with damaged goods. Not you.

I suggest you go back and fess up. You'll feel much better.

denis555
15th Oct 2008, 06:45
I'm afraid it is theft however you dress it up - much better to have asked an assistant who would have given you a 50/50 chance of letting you have it anyway.

To get around it how about returning to B&Q, buying something for a 1 they nipping back to the shelf and returning it - leaving the store with just the receipt?

Clear your name for 1? Seems like a bargain to me.

Forkandles
15th Oct 2008, 07:16
I've been robbing from B&Q Stockport for years now mephisto, so don't come on here bragging until you've managed to evade the fat security guy with either a fence panel or at the very least a couple of tubes of bathroom sealant.

Amateur.



PS. Decathlon over the road is a piece of piss as well.

Blacksheep
15th Oct 2008, 07:33
You're a thief, but what's so very much worse - what the hell do you think you're playing at fixing a dud battery terminal with a jubilee clip? :ooh:





A tip: With a Hi-Viz vest, hard hat and a "borrowed" forklift you can get away with anything. Nobody ever notices a forklift driver.

Captain Speedbird
15th Oct 2008, 07:36
Ignore the holier than thou wowsers Mephisto, it's common practice. Sleep easy. Now, 4 cans of beer for the price of one, anyone?

Captain Stable
15th Oct 2008, 07:50
"Common practice"??? :rolleyes:

So is child abuse, murder, banking and politicians lying to the public. Doesn't make it excusable. Theft is theft, pure and simple.

M.Mouse
15th Oct 2008, 07:53
Theft. If you don't like the price do not buy.

What sort of a dangerous bodge was a jubilee clip on a battery terminal anyway?

1DC
15th Oct 2008, 09:21
Sorry mate but you stole the clip, if you had asked for a single clip you would have been able to buy it or if you told why you needed it you may have been given it. I assume you are telling us about it cos you are feeling a bit guilty.
Remember Mrs 1DC shopping with one of the kids in M & S and when she got outside 4 year old daughter was munching on a sweet from a packet she had picked of a shelf. She went back in feeling a bit embarrassed to be told not to worry because it happened every day.She was thanked for coming back and told on this occasion there wouldn't be a charge.

GobonaStick
15th Oct 2008, 09:38
Look at it this way - if 19 other people came in and did the same, that's a whole bag gone for nowt.

Fair exchange is no robbery. Cough up the price for a single clip and they can't complain.

corsair
15th Oct 2008, 10:02
I hope you can't sleep at night, CRIMINAL! := I have a magic box full of nuts, bolts, pins and jubilee clips just for such situations. No need to turn to a life of crime. :E

But failing that I would have tried to find a small local hardware store. A few still exist although increasingly rare. It is ridiculous to have buy dozens when all you need is one. Equally you could have tried a motorcycle shop or even a good car accessory place, even Halfords.

One of the local do it yourself stores here have an excellent way of buying nuts and screws. Just like the old sweet shops. Pop a few in a bag. Weigh them and off you you. It's seems mad to walk up to the cash desk and hand over 20 cents for a few bolts. But if that's all you need, why not. i don't know if they do jubilee clips though.

Mr Grimsdale
15th Oct 2008, 10:54
If this was Saudi Arabia...

Gainesy
15th Oct 2008, 11:09
Next time just flag down a passing Land Rover (a proper one not a car thing) drivers of same always have a box of bits and pieces aboard for running repairs. :)

Or get sis to join AA?

Ripline
15th Oct 2008, 11:14
Theft, sorry......:=

My B&Q moment was when we were buying loft insulation in Birmingham. On offer at 28:99 per roll, loaded 4 rolls onto cart and headed tillwards.

Blokey casually scanned one and pronounced the total as being 57:98.

Queried this with a polite "Are you sure that's right?" and got a fairly contemptuous "Of course I'm sure!" reply.

Paid and walked. "Offer to treat" rules applied, plus he was given ample opportunity to recheck. I never ask more than once (unless it's not in my favour).

Ever since then, I've regarded B&Q as a friendly place.....

Ripline

seang
15th Oct 2008, 11:55
Quote: If this was Saudi Arabia..

But it's not..

seang
15th Oct 2008, 12:06
Well, what do you reckon so far Mephisto? There seems to be a mixed opinion here. Some folk have you down as a no-good thief who ought to get yourself back down to B&Q to hand back the stolen item or face the beak, while others say good luck to ya, it's only a jubilee clip after all. Looking over the replies it has to be said the bulk of people here believe you are a common tea leaf. Time for your response. How do you plead, Mr Mephisto?

Standard Noise
15th Oct 2008, 14:03
Never been tempted to steal anything as I was brought up to know it wasn't right, but we seem to come off quite well when 'they' make a mistake.
A steam iron in Tesco for 1p - when we questioned it at the till, we got told that they couldn't change the till price. 40 iron for a penny, ho hum.
Two shelves in IKEA last week, on trolley, not hidden, guy used his scannery thing, we paid and hey presto, saved 20 sovs, hurrah!
And numerous other incidences which were the shops' fault.

Gainesy - those of us who drive 'car like' Land Rover products still carry lots of stuff around in the back 'just in case'. I've been flouting DfT rules for a couple of years now by taking a litre of ready mixed coolant airside, and theres a tool kit with two knives and all manner of other little bits rattling about in there.

Effluent Man
15th Oct 2008, 14:10
Double standards here.Those who are objecting answer this.You send the taxman a cheque for your income tax, a biggish sum- say 2000.A month later you see on your statement that the cheque hasn't been cashed.Either by Mr.Brown or Mr.Barclay.You don't know who but one of them has lost out.What do you do?

sitigeltfel
15th Oct 2008, 14:13
Taking a Jubilee clip is one thing. Admitting you are related to someone who owns a Daewoo Matiz...............the shame :(

Binoculars
15th Oct 2008, 14:27
You are a thief, pure and simple. I would have done exactly the same thing.

You send the taxman a cheque for your income tax, a biggish sum- say 2000.A month later you see on your statement that the cheque hasn't been cashed.Either by Mr.Brown or Mr.Barclay.You don't know who but one of them has lost out.What do you do?

In a month???? Shit, it probably hasn't left the post office yet!

BladePilot
15th Oct 2008, 15:01
So the Daewoo Matiz is now worth what .60p is it:)

419
15th Oct 2008, 15:12
If this was Saudi Arabia

In which case it wouldn't have been B&Q. It would have been

ﺏ & ﻕ

Flying_Frisbee
15th Oct 2008, 15:25
Next time just flag down a passing Land Rover (a proper one not a car thing) drivers of same always have a box of bits and pieces aboard for running repairs.
Running repairs? I thought the reliability of Indian cars was improving all the time, especially since the Germans sorted them out?

G-CPTN
15th Oct 2008, 16:09
I can remember when jubilee clips were red, white and blue . . .

Spodman
15th Oct 2008, 16:35
If you had bought the bag you would have saved another 19 walks to the shop next time you want to bodge a repair on your washing machine, splint the cat's hind leg, maintain an erection or however else you want to misuse them... You could have made a start on a box of bits to float around the back of your car.

And it is theft.

Was on the point of doing something similar myself. Lost one of the plastic contact pads off an Irwin clamp, but hardware shop didn't sell the pads separately. Pulled one off a new clamp and pondered putting it in my pocket when I hear on the pa, "Security to aisle 4!" That clinched it, I put the pad back on the clamp and fixed mine another way. Later I hear security paged again, to somewhere else, and realised it was a complete con, the page was on the taped muzac!!!

Parapunter
15th Oct 2008, 17:33
THIEF!! B&Q that is. It's not really on for the sheds to sell these multipack deals when overwhelmingly the average punter will need only one, so honesty costs 20 quid instead of 2. The cynicism leaves a bad taste.

Having said that, I would hate for my daughter to steal under any circumstances, so on mature reflection, orf with your thieving monkey hands!

Jimmy Macintosh
15th Oct 2008, 19:58
It is stealing, it's also about 50p worth of goods, if you feel bad enough do as has been suggested and go and pay for it.

There are a lot of people here (granted probably tongue in cheek) deriding you for doing it, but how many have a copy of some software on their PC that they don't actually own the licence for? a copy of winzip still on trial after 7 years? How many people have a VHS of a movie they taped off the TV that is more than 45 days old? Have a copy of a tune from a friends ipod? or a copy of a friends CD? Stole a pen from work? sat inactive for 15 minutes at their desk when they're supposed to be working? taking a longer lunch and still booking the time.

All of those offenses are stealing things that cost a lot more than 50p.

Stealing is still stealing though, none of the offenses are more wrong or more right. If your concious is bothering you then pay up.

I just realised your question was justified or not, nah it's not justified, if you want it, pay what they're asking for it otherwise find an alternative.

obgraham
15th Oct 2008, 20:01
Here's what you do:

Assume the correct position. Then,

"Bless me, Father, for I have sinned. It has been xxxxxx days since my last confession"

And on you go. Three Hail Marys later you're good to go.

BaconJuice
15th Oct 2008, 20:50
a few years ago "Do it all" had a deal on where you could take back a pot of paint even if you had opened and used it and swap it for another colour on the basis that you didnt like the colour when you put it up. I decorated my entire house for 8.99. I even swapped for the same colour twice (with a different colour swapped back in the middle) to paint the hall and stairs which needed two pots.

Next time seek out your local neighbourhood hardware stall where you'd still be able to buy a single item without resorting to nicking from one of the chains.

By the way, has anyone ever said yes to the old slags that sit on the stool by the exits with the double glazing leaflets

Davaar
15th Oct 2008, 21:23
Just because there sell something

Sale is a contract. Contract requires a meeting of the minds of buyer and seller. Where A takes B's property, and B is unaware of the taking, where is the meeting of the minds?

Let's leave the theft to one side and look at the economics: Did the poster go to all this rationalisation just to save one twentieth of twelve pounds? That is sixty pence or approximately $1.20. Again just to be practical, has the poster considered the scene when the store detective grabs him, and puts him under restraint as he calls the police?

The trifling value has long ceased to matter when you call me to get you out if I can (it is not easy, I can tell you), and anyway you have to explain to your wife and daughter why you are late home for supper.

By all means write me off as holier than thou if that gives you comfort. I'm east but whether I am or not matters little when you have been transferred to the little room with the big lock at the local pokey. Ever been in one of those? So far, anyway? They are unhappy little places.

gingernut
15th Oct 2008, 21:35
A BOY of 15 has been charged with murdering a toddler.
Paramedics were called to a house on Liverpool Road, in Patricroft, Eccles, on July 15 and found two-year-old Demi Leigh Mahon, two, with serious head injuries.....from tonights evening news

Yep, you've broke the law, but get it into perspective chaps.

And you sound repentent.

Move on, don't do it again.

stagger
15th Oct 2008, 21:41
There are a lot of people here (granted probably tongue in cheek) deriding you for doing it, but how many have a copy of some software on their PC that they don't actually own the licence for? a copy of winzip still on trial after 7 years? How many people have a VHS of a movie they taped off the TV that is more than 45 days old? Have a copy of a tune from a friends ipod? or a copy of a friends CD?

All of those offenses are stealing things that cost a lot more than 50p.

Stealing is still stealing

Sorry - but while the examples you give may be copyright offences, from a legal point of view they are not "stealing" or "theft".

Movie studios, record companies, software manufacturers etc are very keen to promote the idea that copyright infringement is a form of theft. And many people might believe this is the case - but they are distinct offences covered by different pieces of legislation.

frostbite
15th Oct 2008, 21:44
" Did the poster go to all this rationalisation just to save one twentieth of twelve pounds?"


Point of order (or mathematics), Mr Davaar. The way I read it, he wanted to save nineteen twentieths of twelve pounds.

Serves them right for bundling such ridiculous quantities.

overstress
15th Oct 2008, 21:55
Thief. Don't come near my family business.

BTW a kettle of boiling water poured over the terminal gets rid of the blue crystals.

And thieves.

Davaar
15th Oct 2008, 22:07
Point of order (or mathematics), Mr Davaar. The way I read it, he wanted to save nineteen twentieths of twelve pounds.

Serves them right for bundling such ridiculous quantities.




No doubt you are right. He can use that as a defence if the charge is wrongly framed. That will be in court, and it may succeed. It will succeed after he has told his wife, daughters, et al, just before the tale is in the Local Gazette, and the neighbours all know about The Thief. You may think (a) store detectives do not exist, or that (b) they laugh off petty theft with a light smile. I can assure you that (a) they do and (b) not often. In my experience they are without humour. The concept of "joke" is unknown to them. That apart, I have found them to be quite decent fellows and suprisingly accommodating if treated right (i.e., by learned counsel's grovelling in the dust). Maybe the poster will be lucky. There is one good way to put that to the test. Try it. I'll be in the office. He can call me or someone else, but for sure he'll call someone.

Jimmy Macintosh
15th Oct 2008, 22:38
Stagger,

I stand corrected you are right, it's not legally described as theft.

Tenuously hanging on to my claims...it's theft of intellectual property

G-CPTN
15th Oct 2008, 23:06
Can you split four candles?

(mephisto should have approached a garage - large or small - who, no doubt would have sold him one clip, or, alternatively tried a hardware store. Quite how much it would have cost in fuel running around, though . . . )

And what would mephisto have done if BnQ had run out of such clips?

Of course, somewhere like H*lf*rds would probably have had a complete battery clamp, especially as, I believe, they used to do Daewoo servicing :)

Halfbaked_Boy
16th Oct 2008, 01:25
Mephisto, I don't see anything wrong whatsoever. You played the system, you won :ok:

Davaar
16th Oct 2008, 01:32
How much one can reveal in a single line.

BlueDiamond
16th Oct 2008, 02:34
You played the system, you won ...
I am sure you will have the good grace to repeat those congratulations to any person stealing something from you.

Of itself, the theft was probably of little consequence to the hardware store but add together all the thefts every year and you get quite a different picture. Shoplifting costs businesses a lot of money and, guess what ... it is the customer who pays for that. The store owners do not simply shrug and say, "Oh well, we've only had thirty thousand dollars worth of kit stolen this year ..." they put up the prices of everything else to compensate for that, or they sell things in bags of twenty in order to "make" people spend more.

Either way, they win and we don't.

Halfbaked_Boy
16th Oct 2008, 03:07
I'm sorry, but asides from the fact that it contributes somewhat to the overall stability of this country's economy, I have little to no respect for the so called corporate monster. I look after myself, those close to me and other decent human beings wherever I can.
I like to follow realism to an extent, and in the cruel world we live in, if somebody should steal from me, then let that be a lesson to myself for the future to do things and protect myself/my possessions more carefully.
Do I have morals? Yes. So do bank managers...
On topic, BlueDiamond I agree with what you say, don't misunderstand, but whilst I don't condone what's happened in this particular scenario myself, I wouldn't personally lose any sleep if I found myself in a similar situation. It's very easy to begin down that road of speculative events of 'what ifs' and 'buts'...... ultimately the guy wanted opinions on a certain action of his. My personal view is that 80% of the reactions here are far exacerbated of what his 'crime' deserves.

But that's just my two pence :ok:

Davaar
16th Oct 2008, 05:45
Halfbaked_Boy

Not many noms de guerre are also such apt confessions.

Captain Speedbird
16th Oct 2008, 08:03
There are a whole lot of issues deserving approbation out there - and no doubt many of those who are applying their pursed lips and narrowed eyes to this insignificant little issue are party to them. You castigate a fellow for taking a jubilee clip from an opened pack that is unsaleable?
Like you have never taken a pea pod and snaffled the contents from the vegetable aisle of the local supermarket - 'just to check if they were fresh' Thats OK then, I can justify it in my own self-important mind - but you my friend, are a thief. :zzz:

Its a funny old analogue world. It seems too many think they live in a binary one.

dwshimoda
16th Oct 2008, 08:36
I see you are an aspiring professional pilot - good on you!

Worth noting though that if you were caught stealing the clip, regardless of value, that would preclude you from holidng an airside pass - bang - your dream has gone for the sake of 50 pence.

Mephisto - it's theft, doesn't matter how much it is worth or who it is from, or what the reasons.

Mr Grimsdale
16th Oct 2008, 08:55
seang (http://www.pprune.org/members/245656-seang)

Quote: If this was Saudi Arabia..

But it's not..


Humour old chap. Humour.

Like this...

419 (http://www.pprune.org/members/72955-419)
Quote:
If this was Saudi Arabia
In which case it wouldn't have been B&Q. It would have been

ﺏ & ﻕ

Davaar
16th Oct 2008, 10:00
Like you have never taken a pea pod and snaffled the contents from the vegetable aisle of the local supermarket - 'just to check if they were fresh'

No, actually, I never have; but also I never looked on that as anything exceptional or took any self-congratulatory satisfaction from the abstinence. I expect this makes me holier-than-thou, a hypocrite, or something else undesirable.

I did not know that the normal citizen went browsing round the vegetables aisles of the supermarket taking pea pods without paying. I always looked on stealing from shops as "shoplifting", and people who did it as shoplifters or thieves. I suppose I might well do it if I were hungry, but that would not change my recognition of what I was doing or what it made me.

Captain Speedbird
16th Oct 2008, 10:45
Don't you just hate it when you spend 30 minutes finely crafting a reply only to see that bloody log in box because you have timed out. :bored:
Damn I would have had you all on the ropes with that one. :(

Flap 5
16th Oct 2008, 13:48
So now when the shop staff clear up the remaining jubilee clips they only find 19. But there should be 20 in a bag - so a whole bag of clips can not be sold. That's 12. Mind you without the essential packaging the clips would be unsaleable anyway.

For those who don't get it that is a mocking look at present day sales methods of selling multiple items in plastic bags.

Some of you are a sanctimonious lot aren't you? The guy was stuck. The modern sales methods intentionally make it difficult and wasteful. You want one, you have to buy 20, 19 are wasted.

Hedge fund managers and bankers have robbed us of millions and you are worried about a jubilee clip. I say hang the bankers first.

G-CPTN
16th Oct 2008, 14:01
But there should be 20 in a bag - so a whole bag of clips can not be sold.An enterprising retailer will mark the package 'incomplete' and offer it for a reduced price. No doubt some customer will be glad to pay less than 12 for a reduced number (as they didn't want 20 pieces anyway) . . .

dazdaz
16th Oct 2008, 14:57
My dear old aunt (89) cuts the broccoli stalks off before putting in her shopping basket to reduce the weighed price at the checkout. Can't see a supermarket 'doing an old dear' for this. Would her act amount to criminal damage?

GrumpyOldFart
16th Oct 2008, 15:09
... was I justified in my action and what might other PPRuNers have done? I took the line that though I had technically stolen from B&Q their attempt at corporate theft from me left me with the alternative of paying for twenty yet feeling an utter prat into the bargain.



1) 'I had technically stolen from B&Q' - Technically? I think you mean 'actually.'

2) 'corporate theft' - Your disagreement with B&Q's marketing policy does not warrant a charge of theft against them, as Davaar will likely confirm.

3) 'left me with the alternative of paying for twenty' - or the alternative of walking away and trying somewhere else.

4) 'feeling an utter prat' - Perhaps you avoided that then. How about now?

After 50+ replies, I wonder whether mephisto wishes he had never asked the question at all. I wonder also how many hours have been spent reading and posting on this thread - and how many of those hours were at work, using employers' computers?

Davaar
16th Oct 2008, 15:13
My dear old aunt (89) cuts the broccoli stalks off

If she buys the broccoli from the fishmonger would it be a red herring? And would it have a different tale? Or tail?

Fg Off Max Stout
16th Oct 2008, 15:37
Call me a sanctimonious, old fashioned [email protected] but theft is theft, and the original poster acknowledges this in his choice of thread title 'Theft from B&Q'. He knows he did wrong and if he wrote on here in the hope of some sort of vindication, support or acceptance, by a ratio of about 10:1, he ain't got it.

Someone else, needing 20 clips for a specific job, may later have bought the bag not noticing that it had been tampered with, thereby becoming a direct victim of your theft and sufferring a financial loss. I, some time ago, bought a multipack of food from Costco and only on unpacking at home found that the pack had been discretely opened and several of the contents bags had been removed, no doubt by one of the no-self-control waddling oafs that you see in supermarkets scoffing food directly from the shelves; sometimes paying for the empty packets, sometimes not. It wasn't worth the cost of returning to the store and they probably wouldn't have believed me anyway. It's not the end of the world, not a big loss, but it is theft, it costs me money, it's dishonest and above all it p1sses me off.

As for the dear old aunt (89), certainly no master criminal, but I doubt that the bloke who ends up having a dinner of broccolli stalks will be sending her a Christmas card.

Ma'am
16th Oct 2008, 16:06
Your dear old aunt (89) may cut the stalks off the broccoli - but the store counts this loss as theft.At the end of the day all the stalks are weighed, priced, and logged.I was once told by a manager in a large supermarket that his store 'lost' 13,000-worth of grapes each year by people eating them before paying.

G-CPTN
16th Oct 2008, 16:36
My dear old aunt (89) cuts the broccoli stalks off before putting in her shopping basketI do hope that she doesn't carry a knife for this purpose, as 'carrying' is now a serious offence in the UK.
A mature retired consultant anaesthetist (now living outside the UK) had passed through Switzerland on his way to this year's Farnborough Airshow. He bought a small Swiss Army knife 'for sentimental reasons' as he had had one when he had been a young boy.
At the entrance to the show 'security' discovered the knife and called over the Police who cautioned him for possession of this 'weapon', confiscated the item and asked for his details (name, address etc proof of identity etc).
Despite correspondence between himself and the Police (which happened to mention that his father had been a very senior policeman) the Police steadfastly refuse to return the item, even though he is not resident in the UK (and was no longer in the UK at the time of writing), pointing out that he is fortunate to escape prosecution . . .

dazdaz
16th Oct 2008, 16:37
Ma'am
How could it be classed as theft when the stalks were left in the broccoli display?

Jimmy Macintosh
16th Oct 2008, 16:42
The supermarkets here have two bins of brocolli, one regular and the other Florettes, basically the stalks cut off or reduced in length.

Even if you do snap off the extra stalk you get charged as a florette. No gain anymore.

dazdaz
16th Oct 2008, 16:55
G-CPTN
Actually it's a 'cut throat razor' of her late husband who served in WWII Legally classed as a memento and not a 'knife' as the law stands. Not allot of people know that.

Having said that, if some 17 year old hoodie was found in possession of said blade, that's another story as to 'memento' The law does have leeways as to circumstances.

Further..She still has his service revolver.

Fg Off Max Stout
16th Oct 2008, 16:59
Legally, I doubt you could secure a conviction but morally it is certainly disingenuous if not downright dishonest. Would it be acceptable to fiddle around with packs of Smarties to get a pack of all orange ones? What about the poor sod who ends up with a pack of all greens!

It seems to me exceedingly selfish, morally wrong and probably legally wrong. Screwing over other people for your own personal benefit is pretty inconsiderate and incompatible with that rapidly diminishing, outdated concept: civilized society.

If you want broccolli or jubilee clips, buy the damn things. If they're not worth it to you at the sale price, don't buy them. Simple. Don't just nick stuff and then blame capitalism, industry, pixies etc etc.

As for young Halfbaked's valuable contribution:You played the system, you won It's not a casino, it's a shop. If I broke into your house, pinched you TV, Playstation etc, I guess that would be fine - I just played the system.

G-CPTN
16th Oct 2008, 17:01
Interestingly, the current regulations prohibit the carrying in public any knife with a fixed blade, so Auntie might just get away with it. Possession of any sort of kitchen knife (or, indeed, a table knife) is, however a no-no.
So how do you get them home from the store?

Fg Off Max Stout
16th Oct 2008, 17:05
Probably by not getting them out, threatening people and drawing the attention of the constabulary, would be a good start.

dazdaz
16th Oct 2008, 17:09
G-CPTN
"so Auntie might just get away with it" Not sure she knows the for or against of this, she just has in her possession, a 'toiletries' item.

SLFguy
16th Oct 2008, 17:14
She must be local to me - see that all the time - it's not a problem tho, I just reattach the stalk with a jubilee clip.

ShyTorque
16th Oct 2008, 17:34
An enterprising retailer will mark the package 'incomplete' and offer it for a reduced price. No doubt some customer will be glad to pay less than 12 for a reduced number (as they didn't want 20 pieces anyway) . . .

Put 'em on Fleabay as a bargain and get 13 - the power of the auction appealing to the ego of a potential buyer. I've recently seen secondhand books and used car parts go for more than the price of new ones!

I doubt the charge would stick to the little old lady and her broccoli. As I understand it, the intention has to be to "permanently deprive the owner" for it to be theft. If she leaves the stalks behind, she isn't depriving the owner of them. If she concealed them and took them out past the checkout, however, she surely would be.

Here's another situation:

A shopper self fills a bag of various sweets from the "pick and mix" stand. The sweets are placed on the scales, the ticket issued showing the weight and price being correctly affixed. During time spent in the shop making further purchases, the shopper eats some sweets from the bag. A security guard sees this and apprehends the shopper for theft. Is a charge justified?

dazdaz
16th Oct 2008, 17:45
What one eats in the store should be paid for, what one leaves behind (broccoli stalks) in store is not theft! Nothing has been removed from the store that has not been paid for.

Where's Mike Mansfield QC when we need him

G-CPTN
16th Oct 2008, 18:14
A shopper self fills a bag of various sweets from the "pick and mix" stand. The sweets are placed on the scales, the ticket issued showing the weight and price being correctly affixed. During time spent in the shop making further purchases, the shopper eats some sweets from the bag. A security guard sees this and apprehends the shopper for theft. Is a charge justified?Jobsworth . . . (IMO)
(Unless, of course, the shopper consumes the entire contents then discards the package without paying for it.)
I have, myself, consumed the contents of a packet of crisps or a bottle of drink but always proffered the 'empty' for payment to be made. On (rare) occasions the assistant has said "Do you want to change this for one that hasn't been opened?"

Fareastdriver
16th Oct 2008, 21:29
The old auntie would have a ball in the Far East. There the vegetable sections of supermarkets are littered with discarded leaves, stalks and skins. They seem to do the initial preparation for cooking before they buy it and only pay for what is going in the pot.

Captain Speedbird.

Type your post in Word, highlight it, copy (Control C), go to your reply and paste it (Control V).

419
16th Oct 2008, 21:49
My dear old aunt (89) cuts the broccoli stalks off before putting in her shopping basket

I do hope that she doesn't carry a knife for this purpose, as 'carrying' is now a serious offence in the UK.

Not quite. What the law actually states is that it is illegal to cary a knife in public "without good reason or lawful authority,"
This is how when you buy them, you can get knives from the shop to your house, as you have a good reason for having them.

Auntie could argue that she had a good reason to carry the knife, but I'd like to hear what the judge would say when they heard the reason!

dazdaz
16th Oct 2008, 22:04
419
As I have posted before, cut throat razor (used for shaving) is not a knife! It's a toiletry item!

GrumpyOldFart
16th Oct 2008, 23:13
Interestingly, the current regulations prohibit the carrying in public any knife with a fixed blade, so Auntie might just get away with it. Possession of any sort of kitchen knife (or, indeed, a table knife) is, however a no-no.
So how do you get them home from the store?



Stick it down yer sock and tell the Old Bill it's a kirpan.


:uhoh:

seang
17th Oct 2008, 00:06
Quote: "Humour old boy, humour."
Mr Grimsdale
sorry, missed that one, my fault. Must have been having yet another thick moment. Best wishes, Seang.

PS, has Mephisto been nicked over the jubilee clip incident and is banged up? We don't seem to have heard from him since his initial confession that he is a master criminal intent on bringing down multi-national corporations. Well, B&Q anyway.

GrumpyOldFart
17th Oct 2008, 00:58
has Mephisto been nicked



Nah. He's done a runner. Brazil, I heard.

Davaar
17th Oct 2008, 01:21
No. He nicked a bag of veggies for rations and bought a season on the London Underground. He is London Underground Bound. Safest place from the Metropolitan Police these days for Brazilians on the run.

Straight Up Again
17th Oct 2008, 02:31
I had to get a new rubber washer thingy for the loo from B&Q many years ago, but they only sold them in packs of two, which I thought was a bit silly, given I obly have one toilet and the damn washers only seem to wear out every 3 years (by which time the 2nd wuold have perished or been lost).

Luckily someobody else had the same problem, and had taken one out of the blister pack and left the pack behind. I took the pack the service type counter, and offered to pay half the listed price. They ended up charging me about 40% of the price. Suited me perfectly.

On the other hand I lost a rubber washer out of the washing amchine hose when I moved house, which you can't buy, you have to purchase a whole hose. Which I did, got home, connected it, and got more water over the floor. Some theiving little git had obvioulsy lost there washer and just taken one out of the hose and put the hose back. When I took it back an assistant and myself looked at the pile of hoses, and over a quarter had a washer missing.

ExSp33db1rd
17th Oct 2008, 04:42
Once parked the car outside the airport terminal for a few days - long story, acceptable action at the time. Parked at - say 11.05 am - and collected car at - say 11.55 am - four days later. Presented entry ticket to nice lady in kiosk, who said - ' that will be 1 hour charge, $1.oo please '

Question - Guess what I did ? would you have done the same ?

Mr Grimsdale
17th Oct 2008, 10:39
seang
Quote: "Humour old boy, humour."
Mr Grimsdale
sorry, missed that one, my fault. Must have been having yet another thick moment. Best wishes, Seang.
:} Join the club!

Parapunter
17th Oct 2008, 11:15
I can top that Exspeed. I have a mate who is not short of a bob or two who once parked at GVA carpark for two weeks whilst away in England. On return, he drove up to the barrier, got his tools out, unscrewed the barrier, drove out, put the barrier back & pissed off.

Pre cctv days one would imagine, but definitely worth a mention in dispatches.

mephisto
17th Oct 2008, 11:29
To those concerned about my whereabouts, I have not been arrested. I will post a statement tonight.

Wader2
17th Oct 2008, 11:40
she had a good reason to carry the knife, but I'd like to hear what the judge would say when they heard the reason!

Only last week or so CPS offered no evidence in court against a gardener charged with possession of a scythe in a public place, to wit, his van.

Oh bring back sword sticks.

"Sword Constable? Gosh, I had no idea, how clever and preceptive of you."

simon brown
17th Oct 2008, 12:41
Mephisto

Slippery slope im afraid mate:eek:You'll be mugging onld Grannies in the street for their pension book next:ouch:...still look on the bright side, the new jubilee clip increased the value of the Matiz by 50%

Ever been tempted to grab one sweet from the "Pick andf Mix" section of any sweetshop?

Effluent Man
17th Oct 2008, 12:44
I never realised how common supermarket grape theft was.Personally I can never pass a pile of Muscats without helping myself to a few.It's the ideal crime being virtually victimless and destroying the evidence at the point of commission.

Wader2
17th Oct 2008, 12:50
It was reported this summer that a PYO Strwaberry picker, red juice running down her chin, offered half a dozen strawberries at the weigh point.

"Are you taking the p1ss?" would have been a polite response.

Mrs PN, years ago, with dog in the field was doing PYO. She duly returned with a full punnet.

"I've been watching you through binoculars. I should weigh your dog as she never stopped eating the strawberries."

The dog, a terrier, was a right little fruit bat. Same dog, in days when dogs were allowed in shops, nicked a rubber toy mouse. We only noticed when we saw the tail out of her mouth after we had left the shop.

Wader2
17th Oct 2008, 12:53
To those concerned about my whereabouts, I have not been arrested. I will post a statement tonight.

Only with your lawyer present.

Halfbaked_Boy
17th Oct 2008, 14:39
It's not a casino, it's a shop. If I broke into your house, pinched you TV, Playstation etc, I guess that would be fine - I just played the system.

Isn't that what house robbers are doing? 'Playing the system' - in our world we have certain rules and stipulations in place, therefore if said person, i.e. you, entered my house and nicked my TV and for the sake of argument Playstation, following which you are not tracked down and apprehended, you have indeed successfully played the system for your own benefit. I in no way condone it, but isn't that what such people are doing?

Cheers, Jack.

p.s. I would never dream of owning something as self meticulous as a Playstation - the only gaming console I've ever used was one of those old Einstein computers! Likes of Chuckie Egg etc, fantastic! :8

frostbite
17th Oct 2008, 14:46
Are you old enough to remember the Einstein, HbB? Also loved Chuckie Egg and wasted many hours playing it.

(I used to write most of EU magazine in the last couple of years, with the proviso that my name did not appear in the credits)

sitigeltfel
17th Oct 2008, 15:22
My dear old aunt (89) cuts the broccoli stalks off before putting in her shopping basket to reduce the weighed price at the checkout. Can't see a supermarket 'doing an old dear' for this. Would her act amount to criminal damage?


Talk about co-incidences! I was in the veg section of our local Marks & Sparks foodstore today and heard a sharp noise next to me. An old biddy was snapping off the stems of the florettes before sticking them in the polly bag. She chucked the broken stems down behind the plastic crates to hide her "crime". Maybe they teach subversive shopping tactics down at the Darby and Joan club.

Halfbaked_Boy
17th Oct 2008, 15:23
Oh just about! It was my first and last memory of gaming - the more modern systems have never interested me one bit... I like aeroplanes :ok:

Octopussy2
17th Oct 2008, 15:39
Actually dazdaz got the broccoli thing right in his first post - it's not theft, but it IS criminal damage.

I don't see anything wrong at all with getting a bag of grapes, weighing them and sticking the label with the correct weight and price on, then eating some before checkout - you still pay for the total amount, not the reduced amount. For a while, it was the only way to keep my 2 year old quiet for long enough to get round the supermarket...

Nopax,thanx
17th Oct 2008, 19:19
No way out of it, you did steal the item.

However, unless anyone at that B&Q branch is a watcher of this esteemed forum, they'll never know.

But...you want to clear your conscience; so, next time you are in there, stick a quid in the charity box by the till. It would save you a lot of explaining and whichever staff member to whom you make your confession from having to deal with a tricky situation.

It's not the ideal solution, but it is a solution.

mephisto
18th Oct 2008, 01:04
I will now certainly think twice before making a non-aeronautically related post on this site. Of course, technically and legally speaking I 'stole' the 'tuppenny' item but I did not expect to receive such pontifical condemnation from the Holy Joe element.

I explained the circumstances and in mitigation can add more. My mission initially was just to use jump leads to start a car with a flat battery so the lady health worker could do her hospital night shift. The existing negative terminal connection was found to be unserviceable. The idea of using a jubilee clip was to provide a viable and , I thought, safe short term solution for an immediate problem. Almost certainly I could have found a jubilee clip had I returned home and rummaged through the many tins of such stuff I keep in the shed and never throw away. However, it was past eight at night and B&Q was the only place open. A friendly local hardware shop was not an option. It took me many exasperating minutes to locate the items. Not one single B&Q employee was on hand to assist me. Half my time was spent looking for someone. Had I collared someone I would have asked the question about buying a single unit. I was not prepared to queue at one of the two checkouts, both with a sizeable queue, and five minutes before closing time, only to be knocked back with "Sorry Sir, its against regulations....Etc. etc." All this time I did not know for sure that a jubilee clip would do the trick so it was a speculative purchase anyway and I did not feel inclined to make another nineteen such purchases. Thats when, after a brief wrestle with my conscience, I did the deed. Furthermore, there were a lot less than nineteen loose clips scattered around after I had taken just one.

I considered, under the circumstances, this emergency acquisition to be on a par with a white lie told out of tactfulness rather than it carrying the igominy of 'theft' and all the criminal and moral implications it carries.

My biggest mistake was to post on Jet Blast. I invited replies so really I got what I deserved for posting. Some of the replies mortified me and have served to reinforce what I already feel about my over-sensitive nature. I'm too old now to grow a thick skin. In common with other posters I had a proper upbringing and know the difference between right and wrong and, unless you include this damnable episode, have never before stolen anything from a shop. In fact, people who know me reckon I am too honest for my own good. The matter of reparation and easing my conscience is not a problem. I perform charitable acts on almost a daily basis when the situations arise. A needier cause than B&Q will get a small monetary donation by proxy and, I do not need condescending suggestions to do what comes as second nature.

Anyway, I've had my say and must point out that if, in high dudgeon, I've misinterpreted internet forum protocol and some of the extreme moralistic comments were just playful internet banter and I've risen to the bait, then I apologise.

By the way, the jubilee trick did the job. I cut part of the flimsy battery connection off using tin shears, This left a substantial tongue of solid metal which was attached to the cable core. This fitted between the thin terminal post and the jubilee clip which I screwed in very tightly. However, the matter has been raised in this thread that what I've done is dangerous. Obviously, I would be grateful if someone could put me straight on this as soon as possible. I will be fitting a new battery cable at the earliest opportunity.

To finish off, Sunday lunch will be roast lamb, Dauphinoise potatoes and, in place of the usual green beans, I might visit Tesco, mutilate some brocolli, leave the florets for some old dear, and have the stalks with the meal. On second thoughts, I'd better not.

BlueDiamond
18th Oct 2008, 02:05
... such pontifical condemnation from the Holy Joe element.Hang on there, mate. You acknowledged from the start that it was theft and even used that word in the title of this thread. All people here have done is agree with you that, yes, it was theft and expressed their opinions that you should not have done it. Disapproving of people who steal is not "pontificating", it's perfectly ordinary behaviour. Approving of theft on the other hand ... well, let's just say I find it a bit sad that you should view the normal attitude towards theft as "moralistic."

My mission initially was just to use jump leads to start a car with a flat battery so the lady health worker could do her hospital night shift.It's kind of you to want to help her out but I think what happened here is that you failed to recognise the point at which you should have stopped trying to help. When you realised that you could not get the car going without having to go to the shop, buy equipment, and make repairs would have been a good time. You probably should have referred the woman (your sister-in-law, I think you said??) to one of the roadside assistance companies rather than put yourself in the awkward position you've told us about.

You could have been done for shoplifting and ended up with a record. The owners of the shop would have been within their rights and my guess is that telling them they were "pontificating" would have got you exactly nowhere, same with the police when they arrived. When you see this woman again, may I suggest you tell her to get her car seen to on a regular basis and get herself membership in one of the roadside assistance services. If she needs to be in work on a regular basis (and apparently she does) then she needs to take charge and have a more reliable back-up system in place than relying on the kindness of relatives. You put yourself at one heck of a risk for her and could have paid a heavy price for that. She, on the other hand, took no responsibility for any of it and neither did she take any risks. There you go ... more pontificating. I'll go away and slap my own wrist for advocating self-responsibility.

GrumpyOldFart
18th Oct 2008, 02:09
My last word on this thread, regarding the broccoli. I don't think either theft or criminal damage apply. I'd go with 'obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception' if it's still on the books. Sort of half-way between theft and fraud.