QR :days off out base " O "rials

[Ronaldo 330]

Is it true that from now we will not get any day OFF alowance on salary from now ?

[Qatari515]

Nothing heard so far...

Says who?

[Mike Tuck]

Latest reward from British management? 3 star HOTAC and even less pay. Bravo!

[Capt Krunch]

Yeah the latest news is that the new British managment peice of s#^! Capt.Ward-en says that our hotels are too good for us and we must settle for much less...

were do they get these guys.. this is what we get when they start hiring ex charter airline guys with no REAL national airline experience.. does BA, KLM, SIA stay in 3 star hotels.. but that what this rocket scientist is trying to pass.. I guess he's got to account for his big pay package and 7 series company ride

he will get his in the end just like all the rest before him. he's only fooling himself if he thinks otherwise.


poisoned by compromise
Krunch

[loc22550]

One think that is too good for sure is the salary of this guy, and should be settle down immediatly... not the hotel we stay!
Does this guy wants more pilots to resign and put the company down and ground the aircraft...?

[knotaloud]

The CEO will see through Ward and he will eventually rid himself of this piece of rubbish. Unfortunately by that time Ward's damage will be done!

[loc22550]

Indeed....
History keeps repeating and repeating again in Qr.....unfortunatly!
Same for our roster mafia gang....They are ruining the airline slowly but surely like a cancer;excpecially on 320:tiring&unsafe&unfair roster, continious change,days off cancelled without asking or advising crew,crew disturbed during rest time, crew called oustide stby time..ENOUGH is ENOUGH !!
Please MR AAB give all those guys ASAP a CONFIRMED ONE WAY ticket back to home for the benefit of the company!We don't need that Sh.:mad: anymore here.
Thanks!:hmm:

[Ronaldo 330]

I asked Mr P.M and answer is yes "O" rials for off day down route he told me sir "its for legality only "
and 1 more bad news a lot of DH flights which also are not included in pay slip.
C.T issued memo stating that QA take full responibility for any diversion to alternate airport but forgot to mention that pilots dont get pay for flying to alternate so why to divert ? better take extra fuel .
News is also that you can be alocated for flight on youre OFF days and its up to you to talk to rostering and tell if you want to do it or not . Before use to be that they aske you for it .
B.W dont need hotel he has 5 star service with BMW and villa and 140 k provided by airline so we can move into 3 star hotels .
R.P might be given CRM position after P. M will be escorted by security from Tech building like his prvious boss Mr C.C

[loc22550]

-I don't really care who is taking or not the responsability for diversion..
I always take extra fuel simply because when we are death tired, and you have two somnolent pilots in the cockpit when approaching our destination, (due to Sh.. roster)the last think i want to do in such a circumstance is to divert,and put extra work load on ourself,simply because i didn't take a couple of hundred kg of extra fuel.
Safety first,Economy after.

-So now i presume all the long layover we have are gone be Days off downroute(as it appears already on my roster) as they don't have to pay us anymore, and they can use it for legality,to make us flying more!
Well ,That's probably part of what they dare to call here: the improvment of the roster system!!Another insult in the face of the crew!

[P.Clostermann]

Just remember Boys, no matter what they tell you:

You NEED 7 days off in your homebase per month...Being DAWHAAH

You need two consecutive days off every two weeks, in DAWHAAH

All the rest they can give you days off in outstation.


But please, we should all insist on point 1 and 2, it makes it much more difficult for them to shedule days off elsewhere!


3 ASRs and 1 PVR so far have been filed regarding the dangerous sheduling practices on A320. WE NEED MORE!

Whats the use of all this whining on this forum, when so few of us have the actual guts to do something about it?:mad:

[scorpio]

sorry guys but i dont know what u are talking about there was never a pay for days off outstation ,what i know i have been in qr six years is that u get a min of 7 days in doha ( legally) and sometimes they give u days off outstation to legalize u for another flight .the only time u get paid is that when u they take ur off day in doha its 1.5 times ur basic salary per day(around 1000 for captain and 700 for fo ).and the other case is when ur rostered for an off day outstation and the company makes u work or roster changes then u get 50% of the off day in doha :ok:

[loc22550]

Wrong Scorpio...

-Day off down the route paid(well now i should say"used to be paid" :ouch:) :0.5/30 of your basic.(nothing to do with being called or not for duty).

-Day off "cancelled" or postponed in Doha: 1.5/30 of your basic.

[Capt Krunch]

well, well

Clostermann,
I'd like to know were ( other than your own contract, which by the way is not worth the paper it is written on ) does it say you MUST have 7 days off at your home base. I can assure you it is not there.

Scorpio,
I've been here longer than you ( not that it matter at all in this company ) but you are completely incorrect. Loc22550 discription is much closer to the actual truth.

although the company is advancing and growing in size and reputaion, the fact remains that our treatment and lifestyle are quickly going in the opposite direction. funny thing is that QA always lands on it's feet, everytime we are short on pilots there is some outfit going out of business. this latest Air XL, Zoom and the rest have helped once again as Varig did a few years ago, and this Boeing strike was a god send for the training departments as it gives them sometime to catch up. Houston being delayed is just another example of luck on their side.

as K. Loud said, Ward-en will get his shortly as they all have before him, but the damage will be done as he moves on to greener pastures to crap in.

Poisoned by Compromise
Krunch

[P.Clostermann]

Capt Krunch,


I have been here longer than you have, I am sure( not that it matters much overhere as you said, but hey, just like you I like to say it anyway).

I can not tell you where exactly it is written (Its late, I did have one GT too many and I can not be bothered to look it up), besides on a rather old ACN that I have from 2003.

In any case, in all those years I never had a roster without 7 days at my homebase. Once or twice they tried to deviate from this rule but a single phonecall quickly settled that problem!

[A330 man]

By the time the CEO will see through B.W. and I.M. it will be too late, the damage will be done to our life style, pay and stability of the flight ops.

Lesson learnt from the history of QA: like all the previously fired managers, B.W. and I.M. will leave too –sooner or latter- but the damage will not be reversed, crew will still stay in 3 stars hotels, no pay for the days off, unfair & unsafe roster…etc.

Remember the ex-manager from Singapore? He cancelled the 320 pilots allowance of QR1500, he cancelled the Duty Time pay, (yes we were paid for STBY duty like any respectable airline), he extended the STBY from 6 hrs to 12 hrs (since it is free of charge).

When this Singaporean guy was fired….all that damage remaines in effect till today!!

[notanotherhilton]

I was in QR when the MdeV went through the place like a dose of salts. Not only did he implement what A330 man mentioned in his previous post, he also brought FO upgrades to almost a standstill as hiring DEC's was cheaper.

The fool Al Baker is repeating his mistakes not learning from them. What a very stupid man!

[loc22550]

They NEVER realised here that the pail has a big hole in the bottom and is leaking dangerously,instead they just try continuously to fill it up without solving the real problem!What a waste of time and energy..and money!
Loc.

[Low IN Fuel]

Finally,iam out QA for good .I wish all of you safe flight and god help you in QA.Good luck:O

[Tintin]

Soon also soon

[vivace]

Guys, where are you all leaving to? The demand for pilot is drying up and very soon MidEast may be the only option left. Hate to say it but management(EK/EY/QR)have us all by le ballon,they are experts and looking months in advance and im sure know pilots will be queuing for jobs. No point complaining any more,next six months will be interesting.

posted in EY post,

'Has anyone considered that expansion and orders may slow down with the reduced passenger loads that must be on the horizon? Even mideast airlines will not fly half empty planes no? Economic down turn in the high traffic areas(India, Europe etc) mean less load, surely this means a freeze in expansion for now at least. This will directly affect your upgrade predictions, no expansion= aircraft crew numbers correct which in turn = no more upgrade. If this is the case, watch out for a 2-3 year freeze. The economic mess just hit us within the last month,it will take a few months for the airline anaysts to see pax loads down,for example early 09. At that point I wouldnt be surprised to see a slow down or pause in expansion for EK/EY/QR,in which case upgrades and movement will cease. If the FOs upset,so what...no ones hiring.Dream situation for management of these airlines,finally they have a low worldwide demand for pilots. Soon to be in the era of being grateful for a job rather than worrying which seat youre in. Just a thought,surprised it not been brought up yet.'

[loc22550]

Vivace, assuming the mideast remains the only option...(i don't think so but),
This will still mean a lot of option for QR pilots willing to leave for a better "treatment"or a better place to stay..(EK,EY,Air arabia, Gulf air, Bahrain Air,Fly Dubai,Jazeera..).Isn't it?

[A320 Man]

Vivace,
I wonder why you are the only one talking about the "expected " reduction in job offers in many forums.....I hope you are not one of the management pilots trying to keep us grateful for working in a company with the least privileges and benefits in the Mid East.

Allow me to disagree completely with you, like loc22550 said: Air Arabia, Bahrain Air, Etihad, Emirates, NAS and others will always hire, each one of them offers a more benefits for crew, varies between one month on/one month off roster, to great provident fund, to 13 months salary, to profit sharing program...etc.

Meanwhile QA is continuously paying the high cost of training new joiners to replace the resigning pilots, but hey...they are saving on crew hotels, free days off, free STBY duty...etc.

[tuan74]

I'm really not sure whether the statement "0 riyal for out of base off days" is true.... coz from the last pay, I still got my out of base days off payment...

Anyhow...there's a message in the AIMS saying that there's some miscalculation regarding allowances for the previous month. Hope that's the real culprit....

It'll be a smack in the face if they really stopped it....:{

[scorpio]

thanx capt krunch for the correction ,regarding days off i think in part A it says 7 days off per month but doesnt specify in doha or outstation,i will try to find exactly where its mentioned .:ok:

[P.Clostermann]

It is in my contract, for what ist worth!

In all honesty, what vivace is saying might be not so far of the truth after all I am afraid.

Loadfactors are reducing all over the place, and I am sure pretty soon we well get a memo from the chief pointing this all out!

I dont think its a good time to move either. Must be a realtime constant wet dream for these managers....

[Lulu qatar]

We all know about world economy going down and Qatar should be a safe place ( except if you are drunk ) reqarding economy .But still we have a lot of resignation this month 3 Capt A330 4 F/O A320 and 2 F/O330. Place must be raall bad if people still leaving .

[blackorchid]

For your ill informed info. capt ward is not from a chartered outfit! but from a very well run scheduled carrier!
Its a tough biz in the real airline world!you are all so spoilt and out of touch with the economics of running an airline out there in the desert outback! For so long the Indian mafia have run QR with all the spies and under dealings which AAB always encouraged!

[A330 man]

B.W. is not from a charter airline? So why he is changing our flt ops to a low cost charter operations style?:confused:
Are we really so spoilt and out of touch with the economics? Or is BW?

Let him take a good look at the operator next door and see how they tie pilots to the airline with benefits (provient fund, paid STBY time and repected seniority list...etc) not with denying privileges.

I am sorry I forgot that some of us got great privileges: e.g. BMW, 140K salary (almost double the current EVAPO) a luxurious accommodation, confirmed tickets, tailored roster to match family needs.

You know what? If I get the same benefits, I will even reduce all your salaries, to please my CEO, and gat more benefits. Sorry, that is how it works because I am not out of touch with the economics!

Let me quote these pilots comments about the Indian management mafia you mentioned, just to have a feel of the public opinion in QA.



shneidertrophy (http://www.pprune.org/members/192884-shneidertrophy) wrote:



One sad record they have broken already: That one of plumetting flight ops morale to unknown depths on the shortest period of time possible!

At least the Indian Birdy Namnam management gave us all something to look foreward to (upgrades/transfers/payrise), the Nigels do not even bother doing that! On the contrary: Hotac quality goes down, pay goes down, no more transfers, upgrades big question mark!!!


A320 Man (http://www.pprune.org/members/120319-a320-man) Wrote:




But to be fair, I prefer the Indian management, at least we were not blocked on the 320 while the 330 and 777 are receiving DECs, they were clever enough to promote the 320 pilots and hire their men on the 320 assuring them to transfer on time.

P.S. I am not Indian national at all. I was type rated, no special privileges.

[instruc231]

:dmin 7 Days According To Chapt 7 Part A Ops .......but They Can Change That With One Phone Calllllllll.:d:d:d

[Capt Krunch]

And I Quote:

Crew members will:
a) not be on duty more than 7 consecutive days between days off, but may be positioned to
the usual operating base on the next day after which they will have 2 consecutive days
off, and
b) have 2 consecutive days off in any consecutive 14 days following the previous 2
consecutive days off, and
c) have a minimum of 7 days off in any consecutive 4 weeks, and
d) have an average of at least 8 days off in each consecutive 4 week period, averaged over
3 such periods.

End Quote:

please tell me where is says your days OFF must be in Doha.. it doesn't. that was once in revision 1 maybe, but in Rev 5 it's no longer. I have had many a schedule with only 5 days in home base while all the rest were out-station. not to mention, they are now deduction my salary on a monthly basis because some idiot payed us 1.5% instead of 0.5% .. so now i'm paying for something i didn't want either way.

Poisoned by Compromise
Krunch

[NoJoke]

Go sick stupid

[Capt Krunch]

No Joke:
Nice selfish way of thinking, everytime you and your buddies do that, one of us gets called out on our standby. Do you really think thats a solution. do you like being pulled off a standby with just a few hours to report for a 5 to 7 day trip?

Thanx allot for that one..

[Mike Tuck]

:cool: Capt Chomp. I see your point, but what if a great deal of people went sick? As for being selfish do you not think 'fixing' rosters with bribes is not equally selfish. Do you not think reducing our pay by giving ridiculous block times, no pay for days off down route, reduced HOTAC standards etc, etc is not selfish? At the end of the day 'selfish' actions by a number of persons might get the message across. ie. the planes don't fly on thier own. Enlighten us with your selfless wisdom and give a solution. Please don't say turn the other cheek.

Refuse the poison and don't compromise! :}

[P.Clostermann]

As I said before, I have never had a month in this airline without my 7 days off in Doha!

Tha ACN used to be there but is gone, you are right about that. And OM does not mention it anymore. The last contract I signed (Loooong time back) still states this requirement, so I go by that one!

So I guess its down to personalities than, isnt it? Or demanding what is rightfully yours!

I agree with you on the going sick part, everytime you call in sick another colleague will be pulled out!

I used to believe in this in my previous airline. However, facing the fact that I am pulled out on every standby anyway here, it must be that nobody else gives a damn about this, so why should I ?

Unfortunately you are on your own overhere.....


Mike Tuck is right....the only way to change things are by making them feel the pain! ASRs and grounding airplanes by not agreeing to the pleeds of rostering "Iam sorry captain but we really have no one else to operate the flight, PPLLleeaaassee" will help us!

MAybe than the management will finally see that we DO NOT have the crews to fullfill their commercial demands and that they have been lied to by both crewing and their chief pilots!

A320 is -22 captains at the moment! HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? Shouldnt there be a manager resposible for this? What about the chief pilot? Why for gods sake is he in that office when he can not even manage to handle a simple thing like adjusting crew needs to commercial demand!

A330 captains are flying barely 55hrs/month! So there we have the opposite phenomenon! Under utilisation!

A340 all of a sudden is all hands on deck, after two years of paid holliday! They released too many pilots!

B777 has 40 crews doing nothing! OK, Boeing strike has something to do with this but at the end, the 777 trng dept was lucky the strike was there otherwise they would have been to be blamed as they would never have been able to handle the training demand!

In any normal company, the managers responsible for such a waste of money and bad planning, would be fired on the spot! But not in QR!

In QR they will try to recover the money from us, the crews!:mad:

[Tintin]

Yes from us the SCREWED

[Haywood]

Dear Closterman,

I like your posts but in one way You should correct your nomenclature. We do not have real managers they should be called:

CHAIRHOLDERS

You may now the 3 monkeys: don't hear, don't see and don't speak.

[330 dream liner]

Managers ? What are you talking about .
A 330 we should say ok S.S.S ,H.A,M.H with roster R.P are doing good job but we have sham fleet A320 with a joke people CP he couldnt even become Inst before but since he flown with deggers to SAA he become CP and instant INST, CT litle Italian with gel in hair what a joke , roster Mhd is joke above all he dont know how to roster him self should he first wash hands or first use toilet what was first in part A or he can aske his boss P.M who is incharge of pilots who jumpship due to bad rosters on A320.
777 CP and DCP one joke after other joke no copmment .
A340 Tech pilot from Siria taking minimum fuel till he crash ( if you dont fly you cant crash right ) so he is safe .
B.W and I.M they are here to take a lot of money and type rating and run away like all others did and it will cost airline a lot .
Any of managers in Q.A has uneversety degree ? upps dont think so !

[NoJoke]

While it is important that the Managers are educated, I think it is more important that they have interpersonal skills, and a REAL desire to help improve the T&Cs for the troops. This desire will directly affect the Company in a positive way, encouraging the right people to stay and the right people to join.

Why do we have to have a third rate Airline because of shoddy Management? I agree with the Dream liner man, we do have some good managers. Give decent incentives and perhaps we can attract Managers of the right caliber, not ex-RAF officers that don't have a clue!

We also need continuity, not the biennial changes that come with the existing system.

[Tintin]

330 dream liner ....

Lulu the halloween was yesterday, no disguise now.

[shampoo_9]

yah why not , business going down , no jobs

[Phantom Driver]

Give decent incentives and perhaps we can attract Managers of the right caliber, not ex-RAF officers that don't have a clue!Errrr... excuse me??!! You might care to rephrase that. One thing the RAF did teach it's "Managers" (amongst many others) was a good sense of discipline and corporate culture, qualities that often seem wanting in the civilian environment. I don't want to start an anti-Air Force diatribe (as I am obviously speaking to the unconverted), but please don't generalise! Yes, an airline cannot be run as a military establishment, but the basic principals still remain if the objective is to be achieved -(job satisfaction for all in difficult times for everyone, employer and employee alike).

p.s No,I'm not in Management!

[NoJoke]

Yep it maybe, but sadly true in this case. :rolleyes:

[P.Clostermann]

Generalisation, unfortunately, is at its place here!

Give me one good example of an Ex-RAF pilot who realy has been succesfull in aviation as a manager outside the UK!

Many have tried, most have failed!

What is it with the Brits that they have to think they invented aviation ????

I will generalise even more: The backstabbing/lying/cheating/reporting we have become so used to from our Indian brethren we deal with here on a daily bases ( and what we condemn so heavily) MUST be a direct result of the years of colonisation they suffered from under the Brits! We have the result here!

I am very sorry, but for me a British run airline is the worst place to be in as a pilot!

[loc22550]

Yes it's true.!
Strange none of us has been advised officialy about this change(ACN..)!?!

[Capt Krunch]

well now.. I have heard the same rumors, but, when I checked my last pay slip. I did get pay for it.

so maybe it's a evil rumor, or I just got lucky ( unlucky ) and will have to pay it back in the future as QA is already famous for, or hopefully I was just over looked.. better yet, it has not been taken away at all.. I won't know until my next pay slip, as I have 2 more days off out of base again this month.:mad:

poisoned by compromise
Krunch

[Midland Alpha9]

A British run airline that has seniority, pass over pay, paid duty hours,stable rostering etc which has given me 30 years of employment compared to what you are spouting on about Colsterbag I know where I would rather be.
Your Brit bashing is offensive what British airline did you work for? and perhaps you could confirm your nationality.

[P.Clostermann]

I dont think many people care about what you have to say MATE!

So go to the EK or CX treads, the ideal refugee camps for Brits wanting to colonise the rest of the poor poor world! Or stay in your so called ideal airline back home. ( I always wondered, if the UK is such an ideal place to work and fly, how come so many brits are flying in the middle and far east? Or are you one of those ex-BA guys, touching a huge pension after which you decided to come overhere and make a quick sterling fast, in the meanwhile showing us poor bastard pilots how to run/fly a jet?)

I am getting so sick of Brits ruining everything in aviation, all over the world! Honestly....do us ALL a favor and stay away...:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Enough damage was done here allready by two of your countrymen!



By the way....I am glad you think my post was offensive! The truth hurts, doesnt it?

[vickers23]

If one takes any thing money or material, without the knowledge
of the opposite party can be considered stealing.

The same token if you dont pay the agreed salary... outstation off ...
or anything related.

Good luck to u all.....:suspect:

[notanotherhilton]

A British run airline that has seniority, pass over pay, paid duty hours,stable rostering etc which has given me 30 years of employment compared to what you are spouting on about Colsterbag I know where I would rather be.
Your Brit bashing is offensive what British airline did you work for? and perhaps you could confirm your nationality.


Like most Pilots at QR, Closterman has never or will never work for a real airline. He's not good enough. A mentality as poor as the third world sh*thole he crawled out of.:yuk:

[Midland Alpha9]

Closterbag old boy you need to take a chill pill.

Your rantings are pathetic I suspect you have not worked for a British airline, perhaps you were declined by them due to your suitability hence your views on us Brits.:ok:

[Midland Alpha9]

Good morning Mr Clostermann,
I appreciate your last posting and I agree enough said. I have friends flying in QR (non british) who have voiced the same concerns you raise. It was the ''PAINTING US ALL WITH THE SAME BRUSH" that pi#$ed me off.
Good luck

[P.Clostermann]

Point taken and glad its settled:ok:

Sometimes even the more balanced under us get carried away by emotions and a good glass of Macallan I guess.

Good luck

[loc22550]

-22 captains for the 320 fleet as you mentioned P.closterm in a previous post... this a more realistic explanation to understand why CPT320 have such a sh.. roster now, instead of blaming the new system.
But still how do we end up in such a situation..?..Day by day planning without any long term vision as usual here..?I guess ,,nothing new!
Is our CP 320 doing something..?:}
And the solution is....?More ASR...?Waiting for more pilots to resign?:ugh:waiting for an accident to do something...?:ugh:

I agree that there is a HUGE difference in Workload depending on the fleet you are: 320 is the worst for sure.Totally unfair!
And the solution is...?Dual rating 320-330..?

[tcas II]

The solution should be pay by duty hours

[airbanana]

:DYou are absolutelly right with your previous post.
We all know what type of people those Brits are. This is a real sample of what pirates means.
Let them back to LOND-ISTAN, ASAP. To the one who refers as pilots from the third world.
Oh I am sorry I belong to a third world country,that what you might say, but my cuestion is, what are you doing here, go back to your foggy and humid hole:mad:.
With all respect.
Mr Banana

[AirbusMaster]

Paying the days off during the layovers is back in the system, QA pilots…please check and confirm.

Thanks