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BlueRay
4th Oct 2008, 13:55
Dispatches: The Trouble with British Airways


Monday 13 October
8:00pm - 9:00pm
Channel 4
Current affairs series. An investigation into British Airways, assessing the airline's reputation following a series of blunders involving price-fixing, mislaid baggage and the troubled opening of Heathrow's Terminal 5.

VIDEO Plus+: 6313


Should be interesting.............. Set the skybox!

mr ripley
4th Oct 2008, 14:16
Blue Ray,
I guess you are not a fan of BA:
Also why has ba lied in the report?
Now remind me what airline do you fly, let me guess, ba. (bloody awful)
I can think of a few more crooks at BA who could do with a little helping of porridge too.

Do you have an axe to grind?

Carnage Matey!
4th Oct 2008, 14:23
I wonder if it'll follow the pattern of the last Dispatches investigation into BA which featured clocks going backwards as the the film moved forwards, voices being dubbed to misrepresent comments, baseless allegations, shameless fabrications and deliberate entrapment? Dispatches has no credibility as an investigative show and I won't by wasting my time watching it.

AltFlaps
4th Oct 2008, 14:54
I wonder if they'll cover 'why all BA piots are called Nigel' ?

llondel
4th Oct 2008, 15:13
If we're going to JB then I'd just like to point out to AltFlaps that it could be worse: if all the pilots were called Bob, you'd have a fleet flown by Roberts.:}

(with apologies to Not The Nine O'Clock News)

merlinxx
4th Oct 2008, 19:12
Why were all the old BOAC (Better On A Camel, Boys Overseas After Crumpet) Capts called 'Camberly Golf Course'?

Captain Stable
4th Oct 2008, 19:45
Ahem... :=

That's Camberley, old chap. Thanks awfully. :)

BlueRay
4th Oct 2008, 19:45
Having joined BA last year:

Roster stability is good.

Bidline, although complicated allows me to bid quite successfully for a months work. I have been able to get to to most of the places I want...


No axe Mr Ripley, but I think your own comments tell their own story and show the bias of your suppor.

Lets wait to see what the programme delivers.

Lon More
4th Oct 2008, 20:46
blunders involving .... mislaid baggage and the troubled opening of Heathrow's Terminal 5

Shirley the responsibility of the airport operators?

Shamrogue
4th Oct 2008, 21:26
I know I'll need a flack jacket after this but anyways.

I know an aweful lot of people slagg BA. it is amazing how many people do pipe up as to how good British Airways really are. How they are professional etc etc. Streets ahead of American, united, Continental, and should I even say Aer Lingus!!! ? this is a commoner gardener feel!!!
With some 40 odd trips across the Atlantic in recent years, I go out of my way to fly BA. Simply because i know the crew (not personally), and most of the people who make up BA are a decent group of people. Yes most airlines are the same and are made up of great people. But the people of BA do a damn good job, in a task where the rules appear to change like quicksand, customer service becomes more and more daunting everyday, and aviation continues to be a business which is least like anyother no matter what MOL thinks.

As one little voice in the back of beyond with as many axes to grind as the next, thank you to the people of BA for carrying my clients, and myself in the professional manner you do everyday.

Cheerio

Shamrogue

BlueRay
4th Oct 2008, 21:56
Hey Shamrogue, great to hear you enjoy travelling with BA, with this months figures it seems your in a shrinking minority.

But theres always a plus side to low load factor, you'll get more legroom.

Shamrogue
4th Oct 2008, 22:24
Shrinking :Majority: I beleive.

And BA is far from alone in this. Ask anyone who owns a business right now.

Shamrogue

merlinxx
5th Oct 2008, 00:09
Thank you:{ As only a BEA (436 70) member @ LGW, we couldn't afford to spell it, let alone go there. Good fun though, I do wish we could bring back the style, delt with Speedbird (in & out of the Air Corporations) many time overseas, only had one snag with one situ in the Mid East.:ok:

Midland Alpha9
5th Oct 2008, 08:11
Shambles old boy who knows next time they may also carry your baggage with you on the flight and you will not have to wait in excess of 60 minutes for them to be delivered up the belts!

Flap62
5th Oct 2008, 09:46
I'm sure that the programme will fail to mention that in general T5 is now working marvellously. It is spacious, efficient and by far the best terminal in the uk.

BA's problems are well known and still extant but are often no worse than some other operators. The fact that BA still, in the main, deliver a good product is a tribute to the front end operational staff.

Howard Hughes
5th Oct 2008, 10:35
if all the pilots were called Bob
You'd be on United and not BA!;)

frostbite
5th Oct 2008, 13:03
I thought all pilots were called Roger.

Capot
5th Oct 2008, 16:07
I've never been slow to lambast BA, but......

Urgent round trip to IST last week. Easyjet £200 or so from LTN, BA £400+ from LHR T5.

Pondered about 4.5 hours X 2 in a 36 hour period on Easyjet vs on BA, and bought the BA Y ticket after 30 seconds ponderation.

Excellent flight in every way (I should hope so that that price, of course, but it was) and T5 very nice to use; bus from Reading stops at the front door, straight through to the gate. Reverse direction just the same. I didn't check any baggage, though.

Now I've got to do it again next week....BA again, I think.

mdt001
6th Oct 2008, 06:11
I thought they were all called "Captain Speaking"

Katamarino
8th Oct 2008, 09:19
In the air, BA have always treated me very well and I cannot complain at all. On the ground, I have on occasion found their service execrable; literally so incompetent as to be almost beyond belief, and orders of magnitude worse than I have experienced with any other airline.

When everything's going well, they're good, but the second a mistake occurs they seem incapable of helping, or even giving a damn. It's a shame.

Scumbag O'Riley
8th Oct 2008, 09:30
Best thing BA have done in recent years is lower passenger expectations to something approaching what they will get. Now they are 'just another airline', albeit with a devious fuel surcharge and a poor european route structure, and they don't as a company pretend otherwise anymore.

BlueRay
8th Oct 2008, 10:43
Scumbag O'Riley, 1st post, joined May 2005....... amazing the number of alias' that British Airways 'public relations' have created! I hope you know down at British Airways it is now an offence for companies to 'seed' public forums.

Now, Mr Michael O'Reily, if you or your team are reading, I think that's quite an affront to your dynamic and progressive business model to intimate you are a scumbag.....

But then its noticable that the usual BA suspects are all over this post, they would love it to go away. Whatever is in this programme it seems BA is very worried. I think the programme might help with these 'expectations' that the previous BA alias has raised.

BlueRay
10th Oct 2008, 22:44
just saw tonight british airways running a Club world advert for business travellers on channel 4. The 30 sec ad was during ugly betty.

Now i'm a real channel 4 viewer, i like the independent view point. I have never seen an advert run on channel 4 before.

Looks like despite the massive financial crisis ba is in, its still worth getting the cheque book out to possibly pursuade a cut or two in Mondays despatches programme, titled "the trouble with british airways".

There must be some serious stuff in that programme.

Lost man standing
11th Oct 2008, 05:43
Blue Ray

For those that have raised concerns about the quality of the reporting on despatches, I think that maybe to do with the previous Despatches investigation into British Airways. On this occasion in 2000 the programme investigated the drinking culture of pilots at the organisation

Personally, I find the despatches programmes to be very professional and informative.You mean the dispatches programme into drinking culture written by someone who thought there was rum as well as vodka in a Sea Breeze, suddenly doubling the alcohol content? That assumed all beer in Europe is strong beer and drunk by the pint, unlike the most popular beer in the bar in question, again doubling the likely actual alcohol content? That managed to sequence the filming so the clock went backwards as often as it went forwards? That claimed the pilots had left the bar to go to bed several hours after that bar always closes? That suggested getting people drunk and having them fly a flight simulator was relevant to the programme? I seem to remember they lied about the report time for the crew as well, although I am less sure of that. I do remember that it was fronted by a disgruntled ex-employee of BA, for that extra little bit of journalistic credibility.

That Dispatches programme. Yes, we know there are credulous people who believe what journalists with an axe to grind tell them, but it isn't going to increase your credibility.

Personally I will fly BA where possible simply because I have always had a great service from pleasant, professional people. They are far nicer to fly with, and generally around the same price as the supposed "low-cost" airlines. The only reason Ryanair are on time more often than BA is because they lie about flight times in the timetables, adding thirty minutes slack to each flight (any airline can do that, but it doesn't actually help the passenger!) and they fly from inconvenient airfields that are not working to capacity.

BlueRay
11th Oct 2008, 12:16
last man standing, aged 97 from the socialist republic of europe. Your post doth protest too much.

Lets say you know a little too much detail (spun for effect) about the last despatches programme. Me thinks the only reason you'll be flying ba everytime is that you'll be using your staff travel.

I think the most important angle of that programme was the subsequent implementation of a policy on drinking on duty and a colleague reporting avenue. Pretty much stopped dead a drinking culture within imperial airways. You can't hit the g&t's if your fo will turn you in at the first opportunity. A positive outcome from that programme.

Now, getting back on thread, i see the despatches programme is being presented by Andrew Guilligan, investigative journalist of the year. This is the first programme since winning the award. I think that the programme will make excellent viewing, even if ba have thrown shareholder money at advertisements on channel 4 to influence the final cut.

I've set up my sling box to pipe in this uk channel 4 programme.

SMT Member
11th Oct 2008, 15:07
As a 25-year "veteran" in the aviation industry, experience has tought me to follow a small set of rules, never to be broken:

1: Never fly with a 3rd world airline
2: Never fly via LHR or CDG
3: Avoid US airlines if at all possible
4: Never take a morning flight from an outstation with BA

Rule (1) is pretty self-explanatory
Rule (2) ditto
Rule (3) ditto
Rule (4) comes from having witnessed too many BA crews having a few too many landing beers in far too many hotel bars around the globe.

BlueRay
11th Oct 2008, 16:08
having witnessed the same excesses from ba crew around the world i'd agree with the landing beer statement.

So programmes exposing this culture do a public service. Just saw the 'trouble with british airways' programme airing on monday night at 8pm on channel 4 has recieved 'pick of the day' in many of the tv guides. Sounds promising.

Life's a Beech
11th Oct 2008, 19:49
Blue Ray

I'm Ga, not BA. No staff discount there. Unless you think I have faked all my previous posts about my job in order to hide my BA role and make that post there. Why does anyone have to have some hidden motive? It really is unpleasant to accuse people about whom you know nothing of being dishonest without any evidence at all.

I know about the programme because a friend knew someone involved, and a friend of his looked into the programme in depth, posting the analysis on PPRuNe. Knowing my low opinion of journalists he sent me the link.

SMT

So when did BA last have a fatal accident, or even one causing serious injury, caused by the pilot having drunk too much the night before? Or is their absolutely no basis for your advice? Where did you find out that the crews you saw drinking were even flying next day, and find their report time?

BlueRay
11th Oct 2008, 22:30
Found the link to the trailer for the despatches programme on Channel 4 this coming Monday (13/10/08)

YouTube - Dispatches British Airways advert (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ixqhlmHeVmE)

Neat little trailer, worth a peak.:eek:

Lost man standing
11th Oct 2008, 22:46
Neat little trailer, worth a peakBright and shining things impress a magpie. Doesn't mean it has any relevance.having witnessed the same excesses from ba crewSo how did you know that the crew you saw drinking were flying early next day? How did you even know they wer BA? I usually take a few drinks myself when I am away, but ensure that I am in a fit state when I am required to report for duty.

merlinxx
11th Oct 2008, 23:32
I worked for the Air Corporations for 7 years back in the 70s, many Independents afore and after. I still have a high regard for the operational standards that both ED & OD (now BA) had. Yup cabin services provided is lower, but the punters expectations
are higher. You get what you pay for! air travel now is no6t a luxury as it once was.

PAX should moderate their expectations to a rather higher fare bus ticket! Because that's all it is, a movement of bodies from A to B.

Sorry no glamour, just bloody hard work.:{:ok::ok:

1800ed
12th Oct 2008, 12:23
A Channel 4 documentary. That's going to be nice and neutral isn't, no opinionated journalism from them :ugh:

Snifferdog
13th Oct 2008, 20:35
Dispatches: The Trouble with BA..13 Oct 2008

Great entertainment!! Best thing on TV all week. My how I larfed!! :} Poor old Willie must be hiding under his desk!...Maybe this will shake up the bozo's on the top floor and help them realise that they are transporting people and not cattle!!

Llademos
13th Oct 2008, 20:39
I turned off after 30mins ... a clear set up, with no attempt at giving BA's point of view beyond a few printed words.

It's easy to find dissatisfied passengers when you carry 35m a year; from the stories they told you could easily find a similar for any other airline.

Utter trash

Dunhovrin
13th Oct 2008, 21:03
I agree. Much as I love to watch BA get dissed, anything by Andrew Gilligan was always going to be suspect. And this was just four old, un-related stories cobbled together by the world's worst "invesigative journalist".

Michael SWS
13th Oct 2008, 21:11
The entire programme was undermined by the dreadful last segment; Gilligan clearly had no evidence whatsoever that BA's safety and maintenance procedures are lax.

Other than that... as a one time frequent flyer who has had flights cancelled, bags delayed and compensation refused I'm happy to see BA made an example of in this way whether or not they are worse than other airlines. The airline industry is down there with travel agents and no-win, no-fee lawyers.

Drunken
13th Oct 2008, 21:48
Saw the Despatches program tonight. I don't know if I am unique in finding Andrew Gilligan (the Channel 4 reporter) smug and highly irritating, but I didn't find the program especially balanced - it seemed pitched to create a good journalistic story, with only superficial reference to issues that need to be explored in depth to create a balanced perspective.

For example, there is no doubt in my mind that Heathrow is a millstone round BA's neck - but I don't recall any reference being made in the program to the fact that BAA (not BA) are responsible for the baggage system at Heathrow. Nor are they responsible directly for the congestion at Heathrow that causes havoc at times with schedules.

I am a member of the public, not BA flight or cabin crew - and I find T5 to be a very pleasant experience. Yes, I think BA have got things wrong in recent years in implementing cost cutting programmes, leading to front line staff being placed under undue pressure - but at least that cost cutting is likely to mean the survival of the airline.

I was also intrigued by the reference to the 777 Heathrow crash - there seemed to be a very tenuous link between this and the changes to engineering supervision procedures going back 5 years - and from which so far as I can see no evidence was presented that made a case that this had demonstrably caused a diminution of standards.

I was also unimpressed by the parading of pissed off customers whose baggage had been lost - ALL airlines lose baggage, and parading a sequence of disaffected customers to demonstrate the depth of their angst is not a particularly insightful way to progress the debate - to illustrate this point, I am sure that similar journalistic rubbishing technique could have been employed in respect of any of the airlines.

Come on, Channel 4, I think you've over egged the pudding here in the interests of a good story line, and the program loses credibility in my view as a result, which is a shame as it had some fair points to make.

Lord Bracken
13th Oct 2008, 22:08
Well, I watched the programme and thought it was an extremely sloppy piece of television journalism. There was very little link between any of the main points it was trying to get across and the attempt to link the BA 038 accident to a 757 fumes incident (and we know how common they can be on that particular aircraft) was shameful. What do you expect from Gilligan though....

Personally (even though I speak for many in my company when I say this) I have been very content with BA's recent performance (which this programme is trying to denigrate), especially since Terminal 5 is now operating smoothly.

And, the customer service quality presented in the programme is totally removed from my own experience e.g. after a recent fight in Club Europe I sent a quick one liner to BA's cabin crew commendation website saying how good the crew were but how limp the "main course beef salad" was for a 3 hour flight...24 hours later I had a very pleasant phone call from a chap in Customer Relations thanking me for my comments on said salad, assuring me they weren't unique and promising they were being looked into.

I think in balance there are many more people with good stories to tell about BA than bad, despite some of their recent issues, and that's demonstrated in the company's bottom line: something even the programme itself mentioned.

419
13th Oct 2008, 22:13
A bit off topic, but still slightly relevant.

I was also intrigued by the reference to the 777 Heathrow crash -

It was mentioned on the program, that the AAIB interim report into the above crash had hinted at ice forming in the fuel system. (if I heard it correctly).

Is there any common point on a 777 fuel system, where one problem could lead to the loss of fuel to both engines?
I would have thought that both systems would have been entirely separate to avoid the possibility of something such as this happening, and even if ice had formed in 2 systems, what would be the likelhood of it affecting both engines at exactly the same time.

GROUNDHOG
13th Oct 2008, 22:22
Flying with BA to Vancouver on Thursday ( upgrade pleeeease anyone reading this) and really looking forward to it. Whilst I am sure there is some basis of fact about the programme it was to me an attempt at sensational journalism and not a very good one.

Whenever I go to catch a BA flight overseas I always get the feeling of being home as soon as I see and board the aircraft. Somehow they make me feel safe and whilst some flights have not been as good as others BA have always provided me with a very good standard of service and I have been flying with them since BEA and BOAC days.

I have no connection to BA but feel sorry for them ( and others) that some people out there will probably be influenced not to book by these programmes.

BA you are my favourite airline.......Now about that upgrade.....

LD12986
13th Oct 2008, 22:45
BA deserves criticism for its handling of past operational problems but this was a very weak effort that was 6 months too late.

To ignore the significant improvement in punctuality and baggage handling since T5 has settled down was unfair. The use of BA38 crash footage was also very harsh and unwarranted.

As for the first passenger flying his family from Manchester to Canada via Gatwick, as BA only flies to Canada from Heathrow, I assume he had booked two separate flights. He should have known he was taking a big risk doing this.

And FFS, what was that clip from the Eurovision act all about????

CATIII-NDB
13th Oct 2008, 23:04
I watched all but the last 15% of the program. It seemed desparately short of real material. All those jump cut images of landing/taling off aeroplanes interposed between snippets of woe from a small group of rightly dissatisfied passengers. No real analysis of the information was presented. A slighty sad fixation with the wording of standard letters of reply issued by the BA company complaints dept. Its the sort of programming that makes you look forward to the commercial break. Why no televised response from BA management or any explanation of its omission by the program makers. A cheaply produced, over hyped sad little interlude.

No wonder C4 Claim to need more money.

Yes BA have lost my luggage once in the past but Poo happens. If this is a C4 documentary - save the tens of pence spent on this and re run epsodes of the flintstones, I love Lucy, Bewitched etc. They are just as relevent to informing public opinion.

CAT III

merlinxx
14th Oct 2008, 00:17
Imperial Airways has customer service/service delivery problems, this is historic. I spent time with one of the Air Corporations, the appreciation towards the punters was awful. Went pallets & nets then BIZAV. If at all poss will never ride BA.

Nov71
14th Oct 2008, 02:35
No comment on the final maintenance section but useful to know about that EU claims (airline monitoring) company.
BA may have a great ad agency but a p*** poor PR / customer relations dept., dating back to King. Willie was poorly advised on Day 1 T5 fiasco. Baggage tracking is feasible and Virgin should have been penalised in the fuel surcharge fixing debacle.
As a shareholder I am pleased BA are one of the more profitable surviving airlines but as a pax I would accept a lower dividend knowing my safety, rights and luggage were protected. If you disagree, checkout who is your bank CEO tomorrow!

Beaver man
14th Oct 2008, 05:44
I'm certainly no BA fan, but this report smacked of being too much in genre of the "Sun" or even "Daily Mail" type of story.

Hobo
14th Oct 2008, 06:40
Totally agree Llademos. A clear set up with repetetive aircraft scenes, somtimes with the wrong engine noise dubbed.

Shifferdog has a really weird sense of humour if he found this funny and entertaining. Clearly didn't watch it all as his post is timed in the middle of the programme.

Lancastrian
14th Oct 2008, 06:49
Watched the prog all the way through and yes it was a C4 delivery of sorts which left a lot to be desired. However,...it highlighted what many of us passengers feel about BA..."The wrapping paper looks good but content and quality poor and a pronounced bias towards the class traveller." My personal opinion only but if I have to fly it certainly wont be with BA......

HZ123
14th Oct 2008, 08:22
Here at BA hardly anyone has mentioned it. I wish I had watched Eastenders and Corrie. The contents of the programme were very flat and it was much ado about nothing. Surely for non aviation people it would have been boring. Snifferdog hate to dissapoint you but Willie has far more to concern himself with.

BlueRay
14th Oct 2008, 09:23
usual ba suspects trying desperately to downplay the impact the programme will have.

Viewing figures for last night dispatches was very high, an indication of the strength of ill feeling toward ba. An ill feeling brought about by ba's treatment of their passengers. No doubt the ba brand is damaged beyond repair.

The documentary also clearly illustrated the potential liabilities that they face over cargo price fixing, some $2 billion.

I wholly disagree with there being no substance to the safety concerns being raised. The professional body that represents licenced aircraft engineers clearly stated his members were concern about safety at ba. If balpa raised safety concerns this would be equally concerning. Certainly with the 3 emergency landings due to fire in the cabins this is a developing story. I have also heard that the head of engineering quality has been asked to leave last week.

All in all i very damaging recount of ba's continued dirty tricks, under hand tactics and shockingly poor customer service. Willie would be right to say this will be the year from hell.

To make matters worse, today see's the appeal from Eweida who BA wouldn't let were a simple sign of her Christian belief. The ban the cross brigade, they certainly know how to make enemies and turn customers off at Brutish airways

brabazon
14th Oct 2008, 09:33
Saw the last half hour. Did my eyes deceive or were the shots of engineers working in a hangar Monarch Aircraft Engineering guys? I thought I spotted MAEL on one of the items and Monarch Airlines and the crown on their overalls? Did MAEL give permission for use of footage?

Shaka Zulu
14th Oct 2008, 09:35
Blue Ray, now you really are starting to take the piss.
I've got to get going, BAs planes need to be flown but seriously get a life.

The usual Suspects downplaying? I think the ONLY person on this thread that is actually working for BA is HZ123 (and myself now). So where are your usual suspects afore mentioned?

Where were the statistics before and after the opening of T5?
How many flights are being cancelled now?
Where are the COMPARISONS?
No data whatsoever besides last years info and 3months of 2008.

About our safety culture, in the same paragraph it was mentioned that BA has got standards amongst the highest in the world. All CAA inspectors and are fully satisfied with how the work is being implemented, so surely they must be blind then?

The only points well made in BA are the completely outrageous price fixing ideas some ''Managers'' decided to employ. They are now being appropriately prosecuted and will have to stand trial for their actions.

Come on mate, you are really polishing your own turd with no REAL evidence to backup BA's current status.
Our On Time Performance has improved dramatically over the last couple of months and I hear even the baggage system is performing!

BlueRay
14th Oct 2008, 09:51
you may stick your head in the sand if you wish, i mean your the one flying these aircraft. If your happy to fly them i will never pursuade you different, nor am i trying.

As i said there is plenty of evidence if you seek it, the truth is out there! I've just told you the info is that the head of quality was asked to resign last week, does that mean nothing to you?

As for further evidence of safety problems, 3 emergency landings due to cabin fire/smoke in this last week, and you nearly dropped a 777 on London. What more evidence do you need?

Go and speak to your engineering colleagues, they will confirm they are doing less maintenance than ever before. The ba schedules for maintenance have been stretched in a cost saving drive, clearly its paying dividend now!

As for being rude, swearing etc and using other profane language, please refrain as it clearly shows you've lost the discussion.

greatorex
14th Oct 2008, 10:05
Ray,

As I told you before, they are Precautionary landings not Emergency landings. I know the difference is subtle but if you want the grown ups to take you seriously it may help. Also, it's 'you're' not 'your'.

Cheers.

M.Mouse
14th Oct 2008, 10:26
BlueRay's appalling grammar, poor spelling and incessant campaign of half-truths, innuendo and downright lies reminds me of that other idiot who was recently banned who was posting under several names and was also a bitter and twisted individual with a hidden agenda.

I wonder if it is the same person?

BlueRay writes such utter drivel he is destroying his own case without the need for any of us to try and counter his obsessive campaign.

max_cont
14th Oct 2008, 10:46
Ray, how is a cabin fire BA’s fault? The QRH is quite explicit about the required crew actions for fire/smoke. That includes a precautionary landing and the crew going onto O2. How is a 777 fuel icing BA’s Fault?

My better half works for BA as a supervisor on the ground in T5/4. I listen to her tales about some of the antics BA’s customers can get up to. I don’t know how the BA staff remains polite and professional. I would take a 4x2 and smack some manners into them. The last episode was a crappy precious girl pop group, who thought the lounge was exclusively for them and their flunkies.

Most (but not all) of the T5 start up problems can be laid at the BAA’s door. I.E. the baggage fiasco was nothing to do with BA.

Sorry Ray, but you demonstrate very nicely why a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

Roger Sofarover
14th Oct 2008, 11:09
Ray
I have seen some organisations where safety standards have been a real issue, but they were many miles away from these shores. The documentary was so loaded and one sided. I cannot see any justification for you stating that an organisation as big and as experienced as BA has unsafe engineering practices.

As for further evidence of safety problems, 3 emergency landings due to cabin fire/smoke in this last week, and you nearly dropped a 777 on London. What more evidence do you need?

Well as the cases you have quoted are not related to your claim of 'evidence of safety problems', there is a lot more evidence needed.

Big Bad D
14th Oct 2008, 11:20
I normally try to avoid feeding the trolls... I am in support of healthy debate and education, but it frustrates me that PPRUNE is increasingly being hijacked and filled with complete drivel.

BlueRay, once again you unsubstantiated ramblings and ignorant claims don't support any arguments you think you might have; but simply show you to be a idiot. And, before you ask, I am not in any way associated with or have any specific loyalty to BA. I have no idea what is the background for your grievances with BA and, of course, you have every right to choose not to fly with them. But do go and get a life.

BlueRay
14th Oct 2008, 11:35
from the latest posts i gather you believe, 1.terminal 5 -not your fault, baa's 2. 777 crash not your fault - simple fuel problem and unrelated to your maintenance practices 3. Passenger problems not your fault - put that down to precocious pax who have the temerity to even try to fly with you, so much so that you'd consider violence as a means to subdue them!

I refer you back to the one of the findings of the dispatches programme, extraordinary circumstances, simply not your fault!

And if you can say a 777 crash and 3 emergency landings due to cabin fire/smoke isn't a safety matter there really is no hope. But with your current performance passengers are deserting in droves, so safety becomes a moot point!

Isn't it interesting in this current economic downturn all the other airline numbers are up, no doubt bolstered by passengers leaving for a safer more reliable alternative that they know will get them and their bags safely from point a to b.

If that wasn't bad enough i see the conservatives have warned business not to get involved with any 3rd runway scheme at lhr, as they will scrap it. That'll leave ba stuck in their fortress heathrow with their giant empty greenhouse! Maybe you could use it to grow tomatoes and support your ailing profits

merlinxx
14th Oct 2008, 11:36
Can you learn how to capitalise your content, the lower case of I is not acceptable

merlinxx
14th Oct 2008, 11:42
It was a total load of old bollocks, this bloke (can't really call him a axsehole, they'tre useful without you'd be dead) total crap content, though I'm an ex employee and not a BA lover, I say the prog was so anti BA biased, that BA should have been given the right to make a statement withing the prog. This guy is a turd waiting for flies that won't visit him, total ****:mad:

PS Should've been a rant really:E

Roger Sofarover
14th Oct 2008, 12:00
Blueray

I have no loyalty to BA.

from the latest posts i gather you believe, 1.terminal 5 -not your fault

BAA should shoulder 70% of the responsibility for the turmoil at T5, they in no way carried out their side of the deal, they were however shown to be capable of the most outstanding case of 'sidestepping' and 'ducking and weaving'.

3 emergency landings due to cabin fire/smoke isn't a safety matter there really is no hope.

They were not emergency landings, they were precautionary.

Everyday at Heathrow, you will observe passengers from a lot of airlines that lose their temper, sometimes on a frightening scale, simply because they cannot have a window seat, or as they check-in so late, they cannot sit together. With such a large volume of people moving though an airport/airline you will always get people who are p****d off.

Sallyann1234
14th Oct 2008, 12:01
As for further evidence of safety problems, 3 emergency landings due to cabin fire/smoke in this last week, and you nearly dropped a 777 on London.

Allowing free debate is one thing, but when a poster consistently abuses that freedom by repeating LIES, it's time for them to be removed.

Parapunter
14th Oct 2008, 12:03
The guy has started five threads, all critical of BA. He clearly has an issue with them for some reason & people keep biting. The oxygen of publicity and all that.:=

Megaton
14th Oct 2008, 12:08
Blueray,

You suddenly joined pprune in Aug this year and all you have ever done is rant against BA. You try to suggest that you have some credibility but your completely biased and one-sided wittering proves otherwise. Now, you obviously have some sort of personal issue with the company for reasons known only to yourself. Despite what you may think, you do not know nearly as much about BA as you imagine. If you had made any sort of sensible contribution on any other aviation subjects you would have had more credibility but all you have done is drone on endlessly.

Snifferdog
14th Oct 2008, 12:14
Hi all,

Just to answer a few comments made about my post:: Yes I was a bit quick off the mark actually posting during the programme. I just wanted to get this potential can of worms opened for debate asap. As for my sense of humour it was a bad attempt at being ironic. I am actually a great fan of BA and I hate to see them sliding into what appears to be a shambolic situation. What I hope to gain from this programme is for senior management to receive the wakeup call they badly need and review their customer service approach instead of cultivating the arrogant/complacent attitude that seems to eminate from those who consider themselve more important than the role they are responsible for.

Snifferdog

max_cont
14th Oct 2008, 12:56
Blueray And if you can say a 777 crash and 3 emergency landings due to cabin fire/smoke isn't a safety matter there really is no hope.

It’s absolute tosh. Of course it is a safety matter…but BA maintenance was in no way to blame. I’ve had a cabin fire and diverted for a precautionary landing. The fire was caused by an oven overheating. Also plenty of other airlines have suffered engine failures in the last few years…not just BA.

Fuel icing is a very real threat to any aircraft operating in temps of -56c. If icing occurs we have procedures as dictated by the QRH written by Boeing/Airbus. (Delete as appropriate) They are the same for all operators for that particular aircraft. BA didn’t cause the icing by lax maintenance; there is no maintenance procedure that BA could have done that would have prevented the fuel freezing and blocking filters. That is a designer’s job.

As for precious passengers…yes some are. The less important they are, the worse some behave. They seem to forget that the person wearing the uniform is a person too. Minor celebrities seem to be the most precious.
To demand an upgrade having paid for economy always surprises me…I mean if you pay for a Ford Ka you don’t try to drive of in the Mercedes, or do you?

You need to stop grinding that axe mate…it’ll give you an ulcer.

simon brown
14th Oct 2008, 13:18
Poor journalism and a biased one sided view.The moment I saw Gilligans name on the credits Im not surprised.

I've had no probs with flying BA which I do fairly regularly. I feel im treated a lot less like cattle than with the budgets and a get a newspaper too!

I get pissed off with these consumer programs where the business pleases and provides a good service to 99% of the people 99% of the time, but far too much of a voice is given to people where things do go wrong.

Didnt they admit to paying out £50 million in compo last year , so they are obviuosly compensating people.

OK T5 was a bit of a fiasco, but thats poor management on a new system which should have had gremlins ironed out prior to opening. Name me any large new project that hasnt been hampered with teething troubles based on managements enthusiasm to get things done on time. From what I understand this sort of thing has happened at other Airports too.

Ive found Easy and Ryan far worse , but lets face it the average pikey on these two is usually too pissed to care about delays, thats assuming they can book themselves in on time or remember things such as passports and photo ID. Id venture the class and demographic of customer has a bearing on the type of complaints.

As for lost baggage, dont piss about just phone them up and tell them it contains a few pounds of semtex, that 'll get your baggage back ....but a prison sentence too I fancy

Megaton
14th Oct 2008, 13:23
Oh come on, Simon! Don't let balance and common-sense get in the way of the sensationalist gutter journalism :-)

Big Hilly
14th Oct 2008, 13:48
Blueray,

Can I just clarify, the problems that you are mentioning are issues that you need to bring up with the BA management.

On this board, we are pilots. Pilots sit in the pointy end and drive aircraft. Management sit in buildings and drive desks.

So what you need to do is go to a BA building and speak to a member of management (they're the ones with the desks - remember?) about your concerns.

OK so, just to recap - Pilots (that's us) we DRIVE the aircraft. Management (that's not us) they are the ones you need to speak to and they live here:

British Airways Plc
Waterside,
Harmondsworth UB7 0GB

They are nice and like talking to people. We pilots, (we're the ones doing the driving - you're getting the hang of this now) we're too busy pressing buttons and flicking switches and making vroom vroom whoop whoop whoop noises in the front of the aircraft to keep talking to you.

Hope that helps.

BH

Beer_n_Tabs
14th Oct 2008, 13:58
from the latest posts i gather you believe, 1.terminal 5 -not your fault, baa's 2. 777 crash not your fault - simple fuel problem and unrelated to your maintenance practices 3. Passenger problems not your fault - put that down to precocious pax who have the temerity to even try to fly with you, so much so that you'd consider violence as a means to subdue them!

I refer you back to the one of the findings of the dispatches programme, extraordinary circumstances, simply not your fault!

And if you can say a 777 crash and 3 emergency landings due to cabin fire/smoke isn't a safety matter there really is no hope. But with your current performance passengers are deserting in droves, so safety becomes a moot point!

Isn't it interesting in this current economic downturn all the other airline numbers are up, no doubt bolstered by passengers leaving for a safer more reliable alternative that they know will get them and their bags safely from point a to b.

If that wasn't bad enough i see the conservatives have warned business not to get involved with any 3rd runway scheme at lhr, as they will scrap it. That'll leave ba stuck in their fortress heathrow with their giant empty greenhouse! Maybe you could use it to grow tomatoes and support your ailing profits



You're a bit of a tit aren't you.


Ermmm.....I think that covers it for now

GrumpyOldFart
14th Oct 2008, 14:32
BlueRay - from your post #18 on the 'inflight smoke' thread in Spotters' Corner:


what becomes increasingly worrying is how all the BA bunch come out defending a safety record only a third world operator would be proud.

I just spoke to a friend who wORKS at ba, admittedly he's unhappy there, but he did say this. BA have about 2yrs ago increased the intervals in their maintenance schedules, particularily on the 777. This means things like ife go longer without being looked at. They think it was introduced as a cost cutting measure.




That really can't be true. No, no, not the part about BA. I mean the bit where you say you have a friend.

Llademos
14th Oct 2008, 14:43
Beer_n_Tabs - thanks; I now need a new keyboard due to the tea I've spat out onto it :ok:

I don't think we should be too hard on BlueRay; he appears well balanced - a chip on both shoulders.

Lord Bracken
14th Oct 2008, 15:09
I watched the programme and my comments are on the other thread (summary: this was not a BA I recognised as a frequent...silver...passenger) but I have one question about the chap who was going to Canada with his family and booked a "BA" flight from Manchester to Canada via Gatwick.

BA have no flights from LGW to anywhere in North America so one assumes the pax were flying down to LGW on a cheap BA fare and then were transiting ex LGW on someone else, probably Zoom (in their day) who would be understandably unflexible when the pax showed up late.

This is the risk with building your own itinerary on seperate airlines - no backup when it all falls apart. I am sure BA would have gladly sold the pax a MAN-LHR-Canada ticket on one PNR so they were protected from delays, cancellations etc.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

Evanelpus
14th Oct 2008, 15:12
BlueRay

Viewing figures for last night dispatches was very high, an indication of the strength of ill feeling toward ba.

What utter cobblers. I watched because I have an interest in this industry having worked in it for over 25 years not because I want to see BA (or any other airline for that matter) slated by a second rate journo.

It does appear that you have an axe to grind with BA, would you like to climb off the fence and tell us more, you know it will make you feel better?

BlueRay
14th Oct 2008, 15:15
you lot are too nice, but you see the same old crowd throwing insults about. How very mature of you all, if you were pilots, which i don't believe for a sec, it'd be just another reason not to fly ba.

Am thoroughly enjoying your comments, incredibly amusing. Oh simon brown, what an elitest moron to suggest all pax of low cost carriers are somehow lower class. Clearly your a ba management mole, if not you share the same characteristics, self important, omnipotent (not actual) and mightier than thou attitude.

The very same characteristics that led you to believe ryanair nor easyjet were credible threats. Now they fly more passengers make more money and actually deliver. Easyjet the largest carrier at gatwick, right at your back door.

I continue to state, clearly that british airways currently has a safety problem. But then like an addict your always the last to see what those on the outside know.

As for the childish nonsense about its not the pilots business, another amazing statement! Do you really think that ba management give two hoot's about anything other than the bottom line and protecting their own fat bonus? Now for those pilots reading, you are very respected professionals, i know you have enquiring minds. Now why don't you just ask an engineer next time you cross paths. Ask them about the state of engineering and ask them has the maintenance schedule been extended, that less preventative maintenance is being done.

As for your oven fire, 9 times outta 10 that's because it wasn't cleaned properly. Another area that has seen drastic cut backs at ba.

A full service airline with a low cost mentality, a recipe for disaster.

airborne_artist
14th Oct 2008, 15:16
Viewing figures for last night dispatches was very high, an indication of the strength of ill feeling toward ba.


Does that mean that if I watch Anne Robinson on telly it means I hate her? :ok:

max_cont
14th Oct 2008, 16:34
BlueRay, no mate, 9 times out of 10 it’s because a bit of food packaging from the meal foil has become lodged at the back and is unseen by the CC loading the oven. It then smolders when the oven it turned on and produces lots of smoke. Sometimes it’s a grease fire and other times it’s an electrical fault which usually pops the CB. All are dealt with in the same manner.

I watched the C4 program…it was tripe. I don’t work for BA, my Missus does. But I do work in the industry as a driver. (Airframes)

BA has lost bags because the BAA lost them…after the pax checked in. It was farcical and BA got blamed. The idiot reporters were too lazy to find out what really happened. BAA (the culprits) kept out of the way.

If my employer operated out of LHR when it gets fog bound etc, we would have had cancellations just like BA. FWIW I operated my first flight on a new AC type into BCN during that period. It was so foggy we checked in for the departure, had to get a cab to another base (The pax were coached) that had better facilities and depart. Don’t think the weather was nice…it wasn’t. I had to do a practice Cat III auto land in limiting X-wind into BCN so that I could do one for real into the UK. It was on the limits and I was half a heartbeat away from going around and pushing off somewhere else.

Now if your main base is LHR because you run a huge schedule airline and the airfield operator (BAA) cancel or restrict the movements due fog, you’re stuffed. You can’t get your fleet anywhere else (Like the charter outfits) to recover the program, because they’re all stuck on the ground at LHR…you then have no choice but to cancel.

Pilotinmydreams
14th Oct 2008, 17:05
I've not read the majority of this thread but get the general idea. I just wanted to post to say that my parents in law have just come across from Tampa and flew BA to Gatwick. They have done a fair bit of flying in their lives and this was their first experience of BA...... they were amazed at how good the service was both onboard and after the flight in getting their luggage - they said it was the best flight they've ever been on.

goaroundnow
14th Oct 2008, 17:11
I haven't seen the Dispatches programme nor do I intend to. I don't want to get so wound up that I smash a large hole in the television screen! It seems obvious that it was bias. I don't know why they're "picking" on BA - probably Giligan's inflated ego was crushed when BA once refused him a free upgrade. I bet the programme was factless and spiteful - that's why I am not watching.

As for BlueRay, people like him are dangerous. Rumours and "muck-spreading" really can have wide ranging influence and consequences. I suspect he is just being controversial to elicit a reaction. In fact I bet you can find him with many aliases on many different types of Forum causing an equal amount of anger. Surely it's best to kick him off this site?

The most interesting point about BlueRay is, however, that the very fact he only has one point of view or stand point means his argument is fatally flawed just like the Dispatches programme. Any credible activist, journalist or politician etc can at least see the other's view, has some room for understanding or concession.

As somone said, he really is a tit and needs kicking off. If for no other reason than his awful grammar, spelling etc!!

Sallyann1234
14th Oct 2008, 17:45
IANAL but some of his/her statements seem to come perilously close to libellous.

BlueRay
14th Oct 2008, 20:25
No not gone away. But fret not back to debate the issues related to BA, their customer experience and safety related events.Sally, IANAL but libel, please! Max cont - i am amazed if you think the aircraft ovens can burn aluminum foil wrappers. FYI aluminum has a melt point of 660 C, they must be incinerators you've got installed on your fleet. I maintain that 9 times out of 10 aircraft oven fires are a result of poor cleaning standards. As you stated electrical isolation is automatic.Goaroundnow -until you've watched the programme you are in no position to provide an authoritative response. Though that's never stopped BA Management shooting off on the subject.See British Airways are running Club world adverts on Channel 4! Great PR response.

Megaton
14th Oct 2008, 20:41
So much for C4's integrity then! Happy to slate BA on one hand but take the cash with the other.

Speaking of integrity: what exactly is your grip with BA, Blueray?

We've all stated our positions publicly and I, for one, drive L'Airbus for them but you have not had the decency to declare your interest in the company.

Llademos
14th Oct 2008, 22:18
BlueRay - you are not 'debate[ing] the issues related to BA', you are making unfounded, unjustifiable and frankly unreasonable allegations about BA based on anecdotes. The plural of anecdotes is not data, however much you would like it to be so. Contrary to what you say, BA does not have a safety problem. If they did, they would have the CAA, FAA and every other 'AA' in the 85 countries they fly to all over them.

I can only assume that either you are (a) a Troll - in which case, well done, I've bitten, but at least you don't mean what you say, or (b) you actually believe what you write, in which case please get some help and a few lessons in critical thinking and how to have an opinion that is taken credibly by anyone, because your attitude is only showing you for an (illiterate) laughing stock, much as the C4 programme was.

BlueRay
14th Oct 2008, 22:27
i used to have an interest in the company as a shareholder, luckily i sold them long before the plummet to junk bonds.

Other than that i like to take an interest topical matters. I have heard so much about ba over the last 12 mths i thought i'd have a look. Called up a few old friends who work for your outfit. I was shocked what they told me. To be honest i was un suprised when ba had a crash in early 08. The opinion i had formed led me to the conclusion it was only a matter of time before a major event occured.

Now as much as all the ba bunch (self confessed) jump to criticise and throw abuse, i have remained polite and responsive. All i've said is the facts i know, you can go check them for yourself, you'll find they're true.

The most important thing is i know some prune people reading my posts are doing just that.

Finally, thanks to all those supporters who have privately pm'd me with words of support. It is appreciated and yes i agree it does get rather tedious when the ba bunch hog the thread in an attempt to disrupt matters. All i can say is they haven't succeeded.

BlueRay
14th Oct 2008, 22:35
i used to have an interest in the company as a shareholder, luckily i sold them long before the plummet to junk bonds.

Other than that i like to take an interest topical matters. I have heard so much about ba over the last 12 mths i thought i'd have a look. Called up a few old friends who work for your outfit. I was shocked what they told me. To be honest i was un suprised when ba had a crash in early 08. The opinion i had formed led me to the conclusion it was only a matter of time before a major event occured.

Now as much as all the ba bunch (self confessed) jump to criticise and throw abuse, i have remained polite and responsive. All i've said is the facts i know, you can go check them for yourself, you'll find they're true.

The most important thing is i know some prune people reading my posts are doing just that.

Finally, thanks to all those supporters who have privately pm'd me with words of support. It is appreciated and yes i agree it does get rather tedious when the ba bunch hog the thread in an attempt to disrupt matters. All i can say is they haven't succeeded yet.

M.Mouse
14th Oct 2008, 23:10
Anybody remember the last rabid moron intent on ignoring facts and rubbishing BA with smears, innuendo and outright lies? You guessed -BAEngineering!

As Blueray he even misspellsthe same words but the real giveaway is the illiterate style.

BlueRay
15th Oct 2008, 00:17
M Mouse (is it Minny or mickey?) i find it flattering for you to have made a study of my postings? Great for you to take such an interest and just shows you for the stooge you are.

I can picture the scene now, you have all my posts laid out on your desk at Waterside, comparing them for content and style with other critics of BA!!!!! I am staggered at the pathetic exercise which you indulge! No wonder BA are losing money hand over fist if they employ people like you to scrutinise boards such as these.

Amazed, oh if they're giving English lessons down at BA, give me the address and I'll pop along to brush up!!!!

Railgun
15th Oct 2008, 00:22
From the Eurovsion on it all went downhill. The BA038 wwas dragged in for the headline grabbing, as was T5.

Yes i dont think anyone here who works for BA will say T5 during its first few days was anything other than a total failure. Hell half the work force believed when the other sections moved over it would turn into a shower of shit. Up to now other than the opening days its been fantastic. Its everything every other terminal at LHR is not.

Also BA's on time punctuality from LHR is now amazing, bettert than the self proclaimed "leader" in LHR ontime departures.

Lord Bracken
15th Oct 2008, 07:00
The programme recieved 0.97m viewers (4.1% share).

This is otherwise known as "two-fifths-of-fu-all" within the television industry. Probably why they ran it on a Monday.

M.Mouse
15th Oct 2008, 09:01
Blueray

Given that you are posting in BA's time that is a bit rich.

If you cared to spend just a minute or two you would find I am a current BA pilot and have never hidden the fact.

The reason I dislike scum like you is the fact you come here to denigrate BA, scare passengers and attempt to damage a company, like so many at the moment, working hard to survive. You present no facts just innuendo and libellous statements.

I am suprised you haven't been banned yet like your previous incarnations which also clearly showed what a flawed individual you are.

max_cont
15th Oct 2008, 09:56
BlueRay, again you demonstrate a total lack of understanding about the workings of the airline industry. You need to go back and read what I posted and not what you think I posted

FYI “A bit of food packaging from the meal foil” does not mean aluminum foil wrapper. The meal foil (The entire container containing the pax meal ready to be heated) is sometimes identified by the catering staff by sticky labels. Normally the heat produced around the meal foil as it sits in the oven racks is not too hot. Caterers understand that this can be a problem and now try to use indelible pens to write the package contents on one foil to identify the box content. Occasionally a label slips through. It is these labels that can drop off and smolder.

After twenty years in this game the only oven fires I read about in the company horror comic, are in the main caused by food packaging lodging at the back of the oven and overheating.

BlueRay IMO the reason you upset so many professionals in this industry, is because it is painfully obvious to anyone who actually works in aviation that you don’t. Not only that, but you have absolutely zero understanding of the technical aspects of aircraft and how they are operated by either the flight crew or the airlines. You however, seem to feel qualified to spout your drivel to all on a public forum. Your erroneous conclusions are based on your bias and misinformation gleaned from various lazy hacks who share your technical ignorance in matters aviation.

greatorex
15th Oct 2008, 10:19
This is genuinely one of the most extraordinary threads that I've seen on Proon in years! Blueray is clearly clinically insane. One can imagine him sitting in a dirty basement flat surrounded by broken computers, saucers of half-eaten catfood and photos of Willie Walsh with hand drawn devil horns (in red, of course) on them.

Blueray, I’m sorry to say that I do not believe for one minute that you have any links with the media. Your grammar and spelling (it’s altruistic not alteristic btw) is atrocious and you are, I suspect something that we have seen all too often on these boards over the years; a sad, failed pilot with an axe to grind.

In my experience these things usually follow a set pattern:

1. Nutter posts on proon
2. Nutter gets flamed
3. Nutter starts making even more nutty posts
4. Nutter thanks imaginary friends for all the imaginary PMs of support.
5. Nutter makes fun of peoples usernames.
6. Flappy thinks enough is enough
7. Nutter gets canned.
8. Nutter re-emerges after a few weeks and we all go “Oh hell, nutty’s back”. This time he’s posting how he has a mate who worked for BA in engineering and his mate has proved that there is a tracking device in Club Class amenity bags that is linked directly to a super computer in a bunker in Hounslow... :ugh:

yakker
15th Oct 2008, 10:39
First up, I do not work for BA, never have never will.

I watched the C4 program and thought it was rubbish.

No facts or the source of the facts were produced, all hearsay. I am sure it would not be hard to find passengers upset with any airline, but the chosen few do not represent all the passengers. The program about Easyjet at Luton used to show there was always a few passengers ranting and raving, normally because of their own short comings rather than Easyjets.

As for poor maintenance, they managed to find two people upset with the way things are run, in a company the size of BA not surprising. The incidents chosen to show poor maintenance were not of BAs doing. Ice in the fuel, how is this BAs fault?

Sorry Blueray, you have added nothing to change my mind that this was yet another poor example of todays journalism. If this program was the basis of a final year thesis at University, the author would have failed miserably.

Nigd3
15th Oct 2008, 12:12
Chaps

A C4 documentary is always going to be a one sided blast at whoever the title states.
Grumbling pax, over-emphasised "safety" problems, tyrannical money mad management etc is always going to be more entertaining than normal, run of the mill, large corporation problems here and there.

Blueray is a classic character and a superb troll, it will be a shame when he gets banned.

GROUNDHOG
15th Oct 2008, 13:35
The programme was really just another case of sensation seeking journalism gone mad. What about a documentary showing the positive steps companies are making to enhance their product, why the constant slating.

I can only speak from personal experience, I was Chairman of a company that BA maintained our leased Boeing 737 aircraft, I have chartered aircraft from and to BA, they have flown thousands of my Tour Operator client's passnegers. I have flown with them many times, my first flight was on a Vickers Vanguard so that shows for how long. My opinioin - absolutely no complaints, hugely professional and certainly my World favourite.

Tomorrow I am flying BA to YVR, the booking handling has been first class, well documented and so far I am a happy bunny.

BA is still the only airline when I am travelling home that I feel as soon as I see the aircraft I am already there.

Sorry BlueRay you are entitled to your view but mine based on the above is entirely different.

Beer_n_Tabs
15th Oct 2008, 15:41
Beer_n_Tabs - thanks; I now need a new keyboard due to the tea I've spat out onto it http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

I don't think we should be too hard on BlueRay; he appears well balanced - a chip on both shoulders

Well why use a paragraph when one sentence will do. :ok:

larssnowpharter
15th Oct 2008, 16:54
Used to fly BOAC, fly BA now when they go where I want.
Never lost me bags.
Don't recall any long delays.
Staff are professional.
One is a satisfied customer.

BladePilot
15th Oct 2008, 17:00
"To Fly To Serve"

Love them, always have always will.

Not sure about the wee short Irish guy though:hmm:

GROUNDHOG
15th Oct 2008, 18:30
Just done my on line check in for tomorrows flight, wt+, everything perfect and already allocated good seats with a choice available had I wished to change. Excellent and anticipating equally good flight as always!!

bear11
15th Oct 2008, 18:56
In a previous life, when people at a meeting started whinging a la "it's BAAs fault, not ours", "not our problem, we just drive them" etc, everyone else at the meeting used to put their arms up in the air to make the V for "victim" sign. They are fair points, but do you think the punters (or the people who watch the C4 programme) give a crap? And, equally, not much point in trying to deny that BA can and do lose assloads of bags, go on strike too much, allegedly do dodgy deals behind the scenes with competitors, and operate from a barn called LHR? Admittedly, I haven't said that to a chorus of music and jump-cuts on the TV to make it sound more sinister.

Not that I'm trying to take Moron's side. But, trying to be charitable, would he have been talking to old stagers who have been in engineering for eons and like to whinge about things not being like what they used to be in days of yore, putting 2 + 2 together and getting 15? Never mind that the CAA presumably agreed to the new maintenance schedule. It's the curse of the beancounters, Qantas engineering folk do bang on about the same thing for example.