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jet_air
13th Oct 2008, 19:12
Guys the unthinkable has just happened !

Kingfisher and Jet Airways have just announced an Alliance:eek: !

The details from Times of India 13th Oct 2008.


NEW DELHI/MUMBAI/BANGALORE: The fight for survival has brought two of India's biggest business rivals — Jet Airways owner Naresh Goyal and Kingfisher Chief Vijay Malaya together.

After several rounds of "summit" talks between the two aviation czars, they announced on Monday night that they are forming an operational alliance that will command nearly 50% market share of the domestic skies — and could spell bad news for the low-fare model.

Each Jet and Kingfisher are losing up to Rs 10 crore daily. Now this deal, which may ultimately lead to a consolidation once one of the players has access to funds to buy out the other, could allow them to cut some losses by having features like code-share agreements, especially on foreign routes because Kingfisher will now go slow on expanding its international operations.

The two airlines may also not compete on domestic sectors by having flights on a sector at close to each other's timings; have better coordination in reducing capacity and hiking fares and possibly do common ground handling at airports to cut costs.

Mallya went to meet Goyal at Jet's head office at Mumbai's Andheri and then on Monday evening Goyal went to Kingfisher House at Vile Parle. Even the buzz about these talks helped pull the airline scrips up. On a day the Sensex closed 7.4% higher, the Kingfisher stock closed a whopping 32.35% higher at Rs 51.35. Jet, which touched its 52-week low of Rs 255 during intra-day on Monday, finally closed 11.12% higher at Rs 291.80. Currently, the scrips are trading at less than half their 52-week highs.

Market buzz credited aviation minister Praful Patel with bringing the two together to form brand GM (Goyal-Mallya) of Indian aviation. However, Patel laughed this off. "I didn't get into this. I just cautioned the entire industry and did not ask any one in particular to shake hands. This (Jet-Kingfisher alliance) is born out of necessity and adversity. Airlines have to first be able to survive for a later-day fight (for market leadership)," Patel told TOI.

The two tied up for what Patel called the "writing on wall" — huge losses and no early sign of recovery from the current turmoil. And just when high oil prices — that triggered their troubles — started to cool off, the global meltdown has led to twin troubles for cash-strapped airlines: further drop in traffic and banks not willing to lend money to the "risky" aviation business.

Attempts like cutting flights and laying off staffers haven't helped pull the airlines out of the woods so far. Now they are again willing to take unthinkable steps like Jet and Kingfisher's coming together.

Said an airline owner, "Talks between Goyal and Mallya started basically to evolve a consensus on two things — route rationalization (read cutting flights) and hiking fares in the hope that others will also be forced to do so. The subtext of the merger was always there. Both the airlines are financially stretched, and it's a matter of time before they face heat from creditors (if they aren't already). Airlines want to survive somehow till the next government is in place and then try for a change of policy to allow foreign airlines to buy stake in domestic carriers."

Kingfisher — which lost Rs 1,000 crore last fiscal — has been forced to drastically cut down on Mallya's ambitious international plans. The airline, which launched a Bangalore-London flight recently, had ordered 10 A-340s for being flown on nonstop-US route. But now it has sold three A-340s to a Nigerian carrier and converted order of five to the medium range A-330. Airbus was to deliver Kingfisher's first A-340 during the Hyderabad air show but the European major's statement of activities during the expo had no mention of bringing this plane.

In addition, Airports Authority of India (AAI) is also breathing down Kingkisher's neck for payment of dues. "At dues of over Rs 200 crore, Kingfisher is among the biggest private airline defaulters," said a senior AAI official. On October 7, oil PSUs also wrote to all airlines asking them to clear fuel bill dues or face stoppage of supply or switch over to cash and carry.

What does this mean for passengers?

The era of low cost flying could well and truly be over after this operational alliance. Both Mallya and Goyal have in the past scoffed at the concept of low cost carrier (LCC) in India as all carriers have to pay same charges. Calling LCCs low fare airlines, Jet and Kingfisher have raised fares of the LCCs they took over — Sahara (now JetLite) and Air Deccan (now Kingfisher Red).

"Together they will command half of domestic market shares. Any move by them to further raise fares will force other independent LCCs to either follow or become unviable and perish," said an airline official. Thanks to a sharp hike in operating cost in past few months, Deccan today carries about 3 lakh passengers a month as compared to seven lakh a year ago and loses twice the money now.


:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Kingfisher, Jet Airways announce alliance-India Business-Business-The Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Kingfisher-Jet_Airways_announce_alliance/articleshow/3591641.cms)

getsetgo
13th Oct 2008, 19:29
this means:ok:

passengers pay more....
route capacity according to the demand.
rationalisation of routes( trim)

extra staff go home to retire cell.

and pay/salary control in India:ugh:
salary down/cut......
its better than industry collapse, now it will survive.

netfreak
13th Oct 2008, 22:53
That's true ... I got the boot ... I had an LOI ... so I did my A320 rating. Now it's bye bye time.

jet_air
14th Oct 2008, 04:23
I heard pilots with less than 300 on type are at a risk !:sad:

Capt Apache
14th Oct 2008, 10:17
I think Jet and Kingfisher will try to optimise crew utilisation especially as Jet is short of ATR pilots.I dont think you will lose your job just yet Jet air but I am sure that at some stage we will see pay cuts

acy RJ driver
14th Oct 2008, 16:13
I wonder what this will mean for expats awaiting employment?

I have just interviewd with jet for an ATR capt position, was told I am waiting now for DGCA clearance. wonder how this affect my employment offer, any suggestions ?



Acy:bored:

Capt Apache
14th Oct 2008, 16:19
Jet is desperate for ATR P1.They wont let you go.So go out and party man

Airbubba
14th Oct 2008, 20:30
From an article in the Times of India:

Jet Air lays off 850 flight attendants
15 Oct 2008, 0042 hrs IST, Manju V,TNN

MUMBAI: The largest lay-off in the history of Indian aviation is expected to take place on Wednesday when as many as 850 Jet Airways cabin crew members, mostly on probation, will receive termination letters. The airline couriered these letters late on Tuesday night.

The tremors brought about by the worst downturn yet in the airline industry were felt on Tuesday itself, hours before the first Jet Airways flight of the day took off. Said a crew member, "About three and a half hours before a flight, the office transport reaches your home to pick you up. In the wee hours of Tuesday morning, hundreds of cabin crew members in Mumbai who were rostered for early morning flights waited in their uniforms to be picked up." When the worried flight attendants called up the airline dispatch office, they were told they had been de-rostered till further notice.

Though the Jet Airways spokesperson declined to comment on the extent of the lay-off, she did confirm that terminations were in the offing. "Because of the slowdown in traffic, both on international and domestic routes, we have announced discontinuation of a number of flights. As a professional organization we had to do a comprehensive rationalization of our network by taking into account the current traffic demand, our capacity utilization, etc. Consequent to this, we will have to release the unconfirmed staff to match up with the changes," the spokesperson said.

Jet Airways has a total of 1,903 cabin crew (as of last week) at its Mumbai base and 850 of them, who will now be "released", were those who were on probation or had put in less than a year and a half in the company. "The rumour doing the rounds here is that more cabin crew lay-offs are on their way. Even the people who de-rostered the crew today fear that they may soon be at the receiving end themselves," said an Jet official, on condition of anonymity.

The retrenched crew are said to have taken it very hard, particularly since they were given a verbal job assurance as recently as two months ago by the top management. Chief commercial officer Sudhir Raghavan in one of his weekly Friday interactions with the cabin crew had said that their jobs were insulated. "Irrespective of whatever cost cuts we make, Mr Goyal has told me not to touch the cabin crew, he had said," a crew member recalled Raghavan saying. "So no one pressed the panic button when Goyal and Mallya made the tie-up announcement," he adds...



Jet Air lays off 850 flight attendants-India Business-Business-The Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Jet_Air_lays_off_850_flight_attendants/articleshow/3596360.cms)

shuchim
15th Oct 2008, 12:52
it is worst condition of indian aviation till ever in history more than 900 job cuts in jet and soon in kingfisher too and as i belong to engineering department in other airline the same situation going to strike here too so when boom will come again wait for that .....and the more worst condition for those who r married and have wife and children dependent on them what they gonna do????///

HAWK21M
15th Oct 2008, 13:56
Sad times for Employees.heard 40 IT pilots are next on line....
regds
MEL

sunny441
15th Oct 2008, 15:51
Sheesh!

another 1100 are to be without jobs over the next few days.

1,900 employees to lose jobs: Jet Airways (http://www.ibnlive.com/news/1900-employees-to-lose-jobs-jet-airways/75883-7.html?from=rssfeed)

Bloody shameful the way they did this...

jet_air
15th Oct 2008, 23:50
What 40 IT pilots? Source ? ATR/BUS ?

Holycow
16th Oct 2008, 01:40
KF expats from wide bodies have been already terminated, ATR no idea what is going to happen

shuchim
16th Oct 2008, 13:16
all pilots less than 300 hrs on type and engineers less than 2ys going to terminate..............well what to say bye bye aviation dream to most

getsetgo
18th Oct 2008, 07:53
:eek::eek::eek:

its not only k+j........include airindia as well.
appears staged show
to cut....1,2,3...and cut

script seems for horror movie :ugh:

KRUGERFLAP
18th Oct 2008, 08:19
Dear Friends,

Qatar Airways will take you all!Apply and Fly to Doha and you will feel at home.At least 90% of staff came from India.

getsetgo
18th Oct 2008, 10:32
Qatar Airways will take you all!Apply and Fly to Doha and you will feel at home.At least 90% of staff came from India.
............................................................ ..........

yea
90% indian staff
100% indian curry
0% indian freedom:{

alouette3
18th Oct 2008, 23:01
Read on a different forum that the terminated employess have been reinstated Friday.Apparently, according to a press conference statement late thursday night Mr. Goyal " could not sleep for two nights "over the decision and decided to reverse it .
Maybe it was politically driven but, good for him and I am glad for the folks who got their job back----for now.
Alt3

Pushpak
19th Oct 2008, 02:02
I might upset a few here. The fact is to survive, all will have to take a pay cut. starting right from the top.Communication between the company and employees is very important and the staff should know the financial status of the airline.
Good luck to all.

Nevrekar
19th Oct 2008, 03:11
Historically you might find that employee paycuts seldom are the determining factor in the survivability of an airline. Ofcourse the airline will tell you that.
When a company is not profitable due to mismanagement, stragetic or otherwise, or due to factors such as high operational costs (ATF etc), currency devaluation, poor load factors, no amount of paycuts will
guarantee that the airline won't fade away. In fact one could argue that if all the employees worked for free, the company might still lose money and not survive. Will the company save lots of money by reducing salaries? Yes--Will it affect the bottom line--Maybe/maybe not. Just a thought.

NGFellow
19th Oct 2008, 04:59
Can anyone tell me where(other than India) someone with 500 hrs of total flight time between the age of 19-25, no previous experience can make $54,000/yr (2 lakhs/month) as a pilot? I can't think of too many places.

getsetgo
19th Oct 2008, 05:55
Can anyone tell me where(other than India) someone with 500 hrs of total flight time between the age of 19-25, no previous experience can make $54,000/yr (2 lakhs/month) as a pilot?
............................................................ ..

was in kingfisher
everybody made money

getsetgo
19th Oct 2008, 06:02
as pushpak said in the other thread pilots after all
they fight during good times and also fight when bad times ...here it is in this news

Kingfisher Airlines cuts 90% salaries of trainee pilots- Airlines / Aviation-Transportation-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News_By_Industry/Transportation/Kingfisher_Airlines_cuts_90_salaries_of_trainee_pilots/articleshow/3614538.cms)

junior pilots want the salaries of seniors also cut , and go by loyalty (years of service)
these negative vibrations and ripples will spread among the alliance at top,that is what they are looking for.

condorbaaz
19th Oct 2008, 12:53
All b@lls

Initially all jobs came with a probation period, quite like this site. Then due to increased demand, that was shelved. Me thinks that it just started again.

The gripe about senior salaries etc is always present everytime. The guy getting the boot thinls percentage.. i.e if 10% pilots are being sacked, could we not have an arrangement wherein the total salary burden on the company be the same?
Thats is where the unions should come in...If they exist.

Pushpak
19th Oct 2008, 13:34
Nevrekar
Quote
"In fact one could argue that if all the employees worked for free, the company might still lose money and not survive."

yes true, that's when the whole bussiness model is not right. There is a chinese saying, "its better to cut the arm than to suffer the pain for ever"
Thats what Subroto Roy and Gopinath did...sure they must laughing to the bank..thats if they can find a bank in these difficult times...
take care, fly safe.

Rotorhead1026
19th Oct 2008, 14:47
Thats what Subroto Roy and Gopinath did...sure they must laughing to the bank

I couldn't agree more!

The two best businessmen, it seems, knew when to get OUT of the business. They may well but back in when the price gets low enough, and the diletanttes get tired of red ink. I'm truly sorry for those who've had their career dented, but the overall machinations are fun to watch :E like Goyal saying there was no political pressure on him to rescind the layoffs. Yeah, right ...

Holycow
20th Oct 2008, 03:26
Such a big country and you don't find more than 2-3 local guys who really understand what is going on ;)
And this is just the beginning, more fun to come soon - it is so obvious !
Aviation as the most dynamic business, in ancient India, creating a challenging combination :ok:

jet_air
20th Oct 2008, 04:32
:* 1.95 laks to 20 thousand !
A NASTY BLOW !:ouch:

Kingfisher is the only airline where u get to see the pilots who are less important than the Cabin Crew to the management !

Guys any 320 jobs out there ?:sad:

NGFellow
20th Oct 2008, 04:36
India now being a player in the global market is going to have to grow up.
These seems to be this very socialist attitude with regard to jobs and other entitlements. I am not trying to minimize the agony of a job loss (been there) but people have to understand that a company cannot continue to employ people if it feels it is affecting its ability to survive and maintain profitability. To say, I just took out a loan to buy a house, sisters marriage, sole breadwinnner etc etc and so the company should not lay me off is quite an approach. Then if they won't take me back let me visit the local mentally disturbed Hindu radical leader for help. If that does not work then the Govt has to step it and take care of everything. Especially since I don't want to be laid off because of the holidays.

What Jet did from a PR standpoint was piss poor. They should have stopped hiring months ago. Or else they could have easily laid off 100 folks every month, and it would not have caused such a stir. Guess what, they probably will get rid of most of these folks who think they have their jobs back. How? any minor problem (tie crooked, hair out of place) and out they go.

Lets see a Goyal, Gupta or Agarwal who isn't about economics? That's a new one.

Pushpak
20th Oct 2008, 05:49
well said NGFELLOW.... I wonder how much this radical poltical leader has invested in the airline business.Will he come to the rescue if the airlines goes under.
What a twit...
History repeating, remember East West, Modiluft, Damania,Vayudoot and NEPC...
fly safe.

Sky Dancer
21st Oct 2008, 05:39
In between all this I heard that F...Head Gopinath wanted to buy back Deccan again.He must be living in LaLa Land.It's time the govt. tell him to sit at home and enjoy the millions he made rather come back and spoil the party again.

getsetgo
22nd Oct 2008, 08:08
merger of king+jet
route rationalisation
cutting flights.
return/lease out extra a/cs.

route rationalisation on domestic sectors means
narrow body pilots are more affected than widebody pilots flying 777/330s
widebody jobs are safer.

getsetgo
22nd Oct 2008, 08:12
pushpak
............................................................ ........................
I wonder how much this radical poltical leader has invested in the airline business.Will he come to the rescue if the airlines goes under.
............................................................ .........................

what it appears is dirty politics. money game.
politicians/money/power...........................
and money has no religion.

flyingmate
26th Oct 2008, 18:07
IndiGo is still open to A320 PIC recruitment. They are inducting aircrafts as well as Captains.:D

Schumi - Red Baron
1st Mar 2009, 06:46
Five months after Jet Airways and Kingfisher Airlines came together to save operational costs, CNBC-TV18 learns that the alliance has not progressed much. Both carriers continue to fly separately on same domestic routes, with different set of crew — on-board and on-ground — and most importantly, at the same time.



Taken from:
JET-KF code-sharing pact still grounded (http://www.moneycontrol.com/india/news/business/jet-kf-code-sharing-pact-still-grounded/387217)