Icao Frozen Atpl

[Sandra9]

hello fox!

I have very ergent question here!!

i am trying to apply for the airline.
and they ar asking ICAO FROZEN ATPL.

I have all my CPL, ME, IR in FAA.
The company I am trying to apply, does accept all this license.
however they are askin additional ICAO FROZEN ATPL.

I was searching and I found that Jordan has this exam but it was canceled since may 2008....:{

I really wanna know where I can take this written exam!!!
I was trying to call ICAO itself but they were just transfering me here to there but nobody was attending...:\

this is really ergent matter for me!!!
Please anyone tell me where I can take this ICAO ATPL written test?

[Tinstaafl]

There is no such thing as a 'frozen ATPL' exam (or even a 'frozen ATPL'). The term 'Frozen ATPL' originated in UK/Europe and is nothing more than a convenient way to describe a person who holds a CPL, IR & all ATPL exams passed but has not yet had an ATPL issued. Usually that's because he or she does not yet meet one or more of the ATPL minimum experience requirements and/or has not met an ATPL issue flight test prerequisite but occassionally the person just may not have bothered even after meeting all the prerequisites.

If you have not yet passed the ATPL theory exam(s) then passing that exam would be what was meant. In your case, holding an FAA licence, you would need to sit the FAA ATPL exam (single multi-choice exam for each licence/rating/certificate in the FAA system, unlike many other jurisdictions). You would be able to take the written exam pretty much anywhere that is authorised to conduct FAA exams.

I think does a disservice to neophytes to use the term and is a bit shady on the part of flying schools. I've lost track of the number of people who think they will hold some sort of ATPL after they finish training at their flying school(s). That's just not the case. After ~150-300 hours flight time to get their CPL + IR the individual still has some 1200-1300 hrs or more to gain - including various mandatory sub-totals as well as passing some form of flight test/skill check - before he or she can even apply for the ATPL to be issued.

It's more correct to describe their qualification as a 'frozen CPL' because unless those additional requirements are met then the potential ATPL holder will *never* get an ATPL.

[Sandra9]

First of all thank you for your kind answer!!

this is the sentence they mentioned in recruting
-Valid ICAO ATPL or frozen ICAO ATPL.(FAA ATP written is not acceptable)
I just copied it and pasted it.:sad:

so I called them and askd them.
they said there is atpl written test that has ICAO stamps on, not FAA one.

I know Jordan used to have tha exam but not anymore...
so I am ergently looking for the place I can take ICAO ATPL written test!:ugh:

[Tinstaafl]

The FAA ATPL *is* an ICAO ATPL and so the exams to get there are too. If Jordan's Aviation Authority or a Jordanian airline chooses not to recognise the FAA exam then that's their choice for whatever reason they like.

Normally one needs to have the source of exams match the licence you wish to get eg do the JAR exams & flight tests to get a JAR licence (at whatever level) or do the Australian exams & flight tests to get an Australian licence etc. However, if Jordan is happy to accept different sources ie you have FAA licences but pass some other jurisdiction's ATPL exam(s) then that might be how to meet their requirements. If that's not acceptable to them then I suspect your only option will be to obtain a CPL + IR + ATPL theory exams from an Authority that is acceptable. I'd bet that any JAA country would be fine, as would Australia & New Zealand and probably Canada.

[Bealzebub]

The ICAO does not issue pilots licences. Most countries including the USA are members of the ICAO.

From the ICAO website

ICAO does not issue any licences. Licences issued by ICAO Contracting States on the basis of Standards and Recommended Practices of Annex 1 – Personnel Licensing, are habitually called ICAO licences. This has led many to believe that there is a specific ICAO or international licence. The fact is that there is not one single international licence issued by ICAO or any other organization. States issue their own licences based on national regulations in conformity with Annex 1 specifications and validate licences issued by other Contracting States on the basis of bilateral or multilateral agreements or the fulfilment of nationally legislated requirements.

[Sandra9]

hum.......

so....what should I do...
first of all I dont have time to do JAA ATPL ground school which takes around 6months....

then I need to take ATPL written test in somwhere where recognised by ICAO...(except USA)

Does anybody know how I can fulfill this requirement in shortest self studying time?

[Tinstaafl]

Before trying to find a place to study you really need to talk to the Jordanian mob and find out just what jurisdictions' and/or country's exam system *is* acceptable. You already know that the FAA exam system - at least at ATPL level - is not. No good shopping around for somewhere until you know the 'somewheres' that are acceptable *and* those places that are not acceptable. You should also confirm whether or not the FAA CPL & IR are acceptable. If not then you will have to convert to some other country's CPL & IR.

I can speak from experience with regard to UK, Australian & FAA ATPL exams and the FAA's exam is very, very simple so that's probably why they don't like it. I imagine that anywhere that bases their system on the FAA one will also not be acceptable.

You might find the Australian exams a better option than the JAA ones. Fewer exams, no required 6 months of school and I think a bit cheaper. Even if you do a full time course for the exams it's measured in a couple of months or so, not six! You could do either system's exams through self study and then do a short exam prep. course (required under JAA anyway). Depends on how much you're able to learn on your own.

I can say that if you've only done the FAA CPL & IR exams then you will be in for a rude shock when you see what's involved in the Oz or JAA syllabus.

Some points of difference between Oz & JAA with, I think, converting to Oz a much cheaper & simpler process eg exams are ~A$60 or A$70.

Oz has a single conversion exam to convert a foreign licence to the local equivalent.

I can't remember but you might have to do the Oz IR exam to convert to the Oz IR.

Seven Oz ATPL exams vs fourteen under JAA. To be fair, the JAA ATPL exams will cover you for IR & CPL theory. I'd still rather do a single Oz conversion exam & an IR exam + the Oz ATPL exams though.

No minimum flight training time to convert the IR vs. 15 hrs in JAA land.

No requirement to pass an expensive JAR initial Class 1 medical. The Oz Class 1 is cheaper although just to do the test you only need to pass a Class 2 medical so cheaper again!


Go to the CASA website for lots of useful information about converting to the Oz licence. Flight crew licensing FAQs (http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/faq_fcl.htm)

[Capt Narcissus]

With due respect to the FAA, most countries either prefer the JAA or ICAO. While the FAA licenses do come under ICAO, they are not fully complient. A lotta people are confused with the term Frozen ATPL. It only means a Commercial Pilot with the ratings and one who has appeared and cleared the ATPL theory subjects. A Frozen ATPL holder is anyone who has ATPL theory credits. These credits will only be unfrozen after the license holder satisfies the requirements for the issue of a Valid ATPL license, which are 1500 hrs TT of which required Night flyin, IF ..... etc..
The FAA calls it ATP and their system does not permit to write these subjects unless one has actually clocked 1500TT. And thts why, Sandra, ur unable to get ur so called FROZEN ATP in the US. Besides, if any school does advertise it, its misleading as there is no such existing concept of FROZEN ATP in the US.
Best is to.. if you are so desperate, convert your existing FAA license to one that still have this concept, and then write your ATPL theory subjects.
Mind you, and once again with due respect to the FAA system and Pilots under this system, the ATPLS are no walk in the park compared to the theory that you might have been taught to achieve your CPL. This is what seperates most of the Wannabes from the actual pilots!
Best of luck!!

[AiRBuS_380]

tumbs up!

With all due respect to FAA, the FAA ATP are a walk in the park as i have done the FAA ADX many years back prior to goin to flying. The ICAO ATPL theory is not as simple then just 80 multiple questions... better enrol in a ground course to revise and to prepare for it ....

Cheers

[Tinstaafl]

That's not correct w.r.t. not being able to sit the FAA ATP exam until the candidate has 1500 hrs. Lots of pilots sit the exam long before they meet the min. experience requirements. As I recall the catch is that unless you work for an air carrier the exam credit will eventually lapse so sitting the exam too early can be a waste of time.

[Capt Narcissus]

The concept of writing ATP theory exams before meeting the hourly requirements was changed along time ago. Previously one could write in to the Part 61, but now with part 141, you are only eligible to appear for these exams after meeting the required hour requirements. There was quite a debate a long time ago, and I did a lotta research on this subject as no one could provide me with a convincing answer. Infact, most people did mention that one could write these just as you mentioned Tinstaafl
, but after actually gettin on touch with the guys in charge of Licensing in the FAA, I came to a conclusion that prior to these exams, one must need to satisfy the above mentioned requirements.
There was only one school in my knowledge that was making these false claims of providing an FAA Frozen ATP, called American School Of Aviation, but after a major scam, they went down big time crashing dreams of over a 100 students as their money was also lost in the bargain.
That was also one of the reasons I decided to skip the US for my training altough I still have high regards for their practical standards in training cos my requirements also demanded an opportunity to write my ATPL exams before clocking 1500TT. And here I am, PPL-Nite rating-ATPL Ground School-ATPL exams-IFR-TWIN-MCC in 247 hrs.
Tinstaafl, please do lemme know of any schools that allow their students to appear for the ATP exams before meeting these requirements. If this is true, then gettin a Frozen ATP is a lot more easier then having to clear 14 subjects.

[Tinstaafl]

Capt N, what's the source of your information? I can find no reference in the FARs or on the FAA website that specifies a min. experience requirement prior to sitting the FAA ATP theory exam. I found one reference to an age limit of 21 at an ATP ground school but still no min. hours (nor can I find any FAR reference to that age limit, just FAA advice that permits parents to accompany a candidate aged less than 21 so they may provide proof of identity documents).

[mmorel]

I'm also in same situation , I have FAA CPL and the airline require frozen ATPL. Do you know any schools or country that I can get frozen ATPL without converting my license to EASA?

[pfvspnf]

Have you considered Canada? You can write the written exams at 750 hours. Only two exams to write,
its not a frozen ATPL , but the written exams are done...

Which airline is it?

[PFDriver]

I'm also in same situation , I have FAA CPL and the airline require frozen ATPL. Do you know any schools or country that I can get frozen ATPL without converting my license to EASA?
Simple answer: NO

Complex answer: NO

If you have an FAA CPL/IR and want to get an EASA CPL/IR with ATPL Theory Credit (Frozen ATPL) you have to take an EASA checkride and all the 14 written ATPL exams. As of right now, there is no way out for conversions but this one.

[zulu_01]

Hi. I hold an ICAO ATPL and want to do FAA ATPL or Canadian ATPL.

Can somebody guide me to some flight school near Montreal where I can do Ground classes. I can do my Check ride on the CAE SIM at Montreal.

thanks