Bomber Command Campaign Medal

[exscribbler]

Number10.gov.uk ForgottenRAF - epetition response (http://www.number10.gov.uk:80/Page17125)

It seems the Government Of All The Talents (GOATT) will not institute retrospective medals; while not wishing to take anything away from the ladies and their efforts one might ask how is the Land Army different?

[November4]

They didn't get a medal....the Land Army got a badge.

MOD (http://www.modoracle.com/news/Badge-for-Female-Land-Army-Veterans_15012.html)

http://www.defra.gov.uk/farm/graphics/wla-badge.jpg

[Biggles225]

Didn't the guys who served on the Arctic convoys get a retrospective medal recently?

[Pontius Navigator]

Biggles, no, the Arctic award was a rather fine brooch. In relation to the Veteran's badge it is a fine design and will have real value.

I have just read a chronical of the Arctic campaign which included every convoy, loss, naval action etc. I don't have the book with me but the number killed was, IIRC, somewhere in the order of 850.

Set against the bomber campaign in Europe there is a fair difference.

[Biggles225]

Yes, Pontius, I think I was getting my 'stars' confused. (I just know I'm going to wish I hadnt said that!) :uhoh:

[Pontius Navigator]

Biggles there is another interesting anomally too. Widows or NOK can claim the Arctic emblem too. The Veteran's lapel pin on the other hand can only be claimed by the veteran. So a widow will have no token symbol of her husband's military service. Where so many were cold war warriors with no medals this means they have no way of displaying their spouses support for Queen and country.

Same as with the Golden Jubillee medal where some sections of the forces were excluded whereas RAF VR(T) qualified.

The Silver Jubillee was another Labour stingy one too, one between 10 or so.

[RETDPI]

The Silver Jubilee Medal was a bit of a sick joke on my unit.
I had the problem of selecting which member of my staff ( of rather more than 10) was to get the singular example that had somehow been allowed to trickle down through the sieve.
Fortunately I had one Flight Sergeant who had a whole string of medals:

" ..and I got that thing for cowering in a trench, singing battle songs"


So the meaningless extra one with the gopping ribbon was hardly noticed.

[mr fish]

the simple answer is a medal would upset the germans, cnd, pacifists, the stop the war 'coalition' etc etc.
i suppose they would also be offended by a 'bomber harris' statue as well, oh hang on!!!

[November4]

Artic Convoy badge

http://www.veterans-uk.info/press/images/arcticemblem.jpg

UK Merchant Seafarers Veteran’s Badge

http://www.veterans-uk.info/new_badge/images/merchant_badge.jpg

Bevan Boys

http://www.seniorsnetwork.co.uk/bevinboys/bevinbadge.jpg

Veterans

http://www.veterans-uk.info/vets_badge/images/badge.jpg

According to the people at Police and Military Tic Tac Service (http://www.tietacs.org.uk/) order for 300 lapel badges cost just over £300 including set up costs...about £1 each. So no wonder the Govt won't issue a medal!

[cazatou]

The problem with a "Bomber Command" medal is that is would be, by definition, limited to those who operated as members of Bomber Command. It would not be available to those who participated in Bomber Command Operations whilst serving in other Commands.

For example, during the 1000 Bomber Raids in 1942 aircraft and crews from Flying Training Command, Coastal Command and Army Cooperation Command participated and suffered casualties. They would not be eligible; neither would the crews who flew from Italy to attack German targets as they were part of Mediterranean Air Command.

It would also create a precedent which could initiate a demand for more and more medals. For example an Airborne Forces Medal, Commando Medal, Coastal Command Medal, Submariners medal etc etc.

This was recognised at the time, hence the "Aircrew Europe Star".

[Pontius Navigator]

limited to those who operated as members of Bomber Command. It would not be available to those who participated in Bomber Command Operations whilst serving in other Commands.

I don't see that as a major issue as long as proof of participation was possible. Sqn histories F541s will have the names.

It would also create a precedent which could initiate a demand for more and more medals. For example an Airborne Forces Medal, Commando Medal, Coastal Command Medal, Submariners medal etc etc.

This is a more persuasive argument.

This was recognised at the time, hence the "Aircrew Europe Star".

As is that.

[Chugalug2]

I'm not sure what is being asked for here, is it a Bomber Command Medal or a Bomber Campaign Medal? As Cazatou rightly says the first is a non starter, despite being Harris's wish. Simply serving with a military formation in the UK Armed Forces has never been reason of itself for the award of a medal AFAIK. On the other hand being in a particular campaign, especially one that lasted as long as this one, from the beginning to the end of the war in Europe, and as hazardous as this one, with 50% losses, is more than a good enough reason for a Campaign Medal to be awarded to anyone who took part in the Bombing Offensive regardless of which Command, Service or Nationality they be. Again Cazatou is correct when he says:

This was recognised at the time, hence the "Aircrew Europe Star".

A much respected and prized award. What bothers me is that the AES ceased to be awarded wef D-Day, being replaced with the France and Germany Star. That went to all engaged in or over Europe, occupied or liberated, until Victory. Thus those in the rear echelons were awarded the same as the later Bomber Crews doing the same hazardous work that had previously earned the Aircrew Europe Star. That seems wrong to me and to others. Hence the call for a "Battle of Germany" Star to coin Harris's tag for the Bombing Campaign. It should have happened at the time, I suspect it will not happen now though. Better perhaps to show the debt we owe in Remembrance by at last having a truly National Bomber Command Memorial with all +55,500 names engraved upon it.

[cazatou]

Chugalug 2

The fact that the medal awarded changed wef D Day indicates that the "Powers that be" recognised that the circumstances had changed. If you think of Wg Cdr Gibson's book - there was no longer an "Enemy Coast Ahead".

Although the Continent was still occupied by Axis Forces a large proportion of AA 88mm Guns were redeployed as anti tank weapons and forward radar units had been overrun or destroyed. Furthermore, Allied interdiction and fighter aircraft controlled the skies in front of the Allied advance thus preventing a large proportion of Axis attempts at Recce and Interdiction.

[Chugalug2]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one Cazatou. It was still an extremely dangerous front to fight on, and an effective one according to Albert Speer. I'm sure that indeed:

the "Powers that be" recognised that the circumstances had changed.

but that was more in recognition in 1946 that those who were our allies were now to be our enemy, and those who had been our enemy and whose cities we had razed to the ground were now our friends. Political Correctness before it had even been invented!