PDA

View Full Version : Why do people marry?


Gnirren
9th Oct 2008, 22:45
Fair enough if you're religious but many people aren't and still marry. I personally don't see a reason to get married. There's not much married people can do that unmarried couples can't. I do however understand the part where she can keep half in case of a divorce. I don't buy the argument that it's for love, if you love one another then I think you'll be together anyway for as long as it lasts and frankly if the love dies then you should probably break up. Stability? Sure ok, but what kind of stability, if you're in a marriage you no longer enjoy then it's bad stability not a good one. I don't know the legal matters when kids are involved, could be you have more rights in case of a separation which I think makes sense but marriage still seems iffy to me. I believe in love sure, but marriage? I am at a loss here, maybe some wed locked prooners can help me see the joys of it all. Or to put it differently, if you are married right now, do you think you would be worse off at the moment if you had not married?

G-CPTN
9th Oct 2008, 22:57
A guy at work had a partner and at least two children, but he had never married.
He was involved in a serious accident (whilst at work). Fortunately he survived (and recovered fully), but it was a close call.
He realised that, in the event that he had been killed, there would have been problems for his family (his partner wouldn't have inherited his state free of inheritance tax).
As soon as he recovered, they married.

Capot
9th Oct 2008, 22:58
I personally don't see a reason to get married.

It's so that you can relax at parties and weddings because you know in advance who you are leaving with to take to bed. No more worry, tension and need to try and act like a lovable, nice, trustworthy guy. Just drink up and, when you want to go, whistle. It's magic.

Downside is you can't fart in bed anymore.

Bealzebub
9th Oct 2008, 23:02
Because, you can't be happy forever!

Crosshair
9th Oct 2008, 23:24
Because it's the right thing to do.

De facto marriage is largely the same thing in practical terms, you are right, but if you love someone and are going to make a commitment to them then it's a good idea to stand up in front of your families and friends (representing the society in which you live generally) and say so.

Plus, it's a tradition. Marriage is what monogamous couples (usually with, or on the path to having, children) in most societies do. I don't understand the idea of shunning what is customary just because it's customary.

Gnirren
9th Oct 2008, 23:34
Just as I don't understand why you would do something customary because it's customary.

Marriage may be the right thing to do for You, but I wouldn't say it's the right thing to do for everyone.

I agree that it's a good thing to make a commitment and if you want to throw a big party when you do so, go ahead but you can do both without signing legal papers right? I don't think I would ever say to my partner "Unless we get married I won't believe that you're actually committed to me". To me I'd be the one with trust issues more like?

Crosshair
9th Oct 2008, 23:44
Do what you like, of course. And thanks for the capitalised "You." No need to deify me yet.

Why to do something because it is customary: Because it reinforces that we're part of a society, together. If you and I have things in common, whether it's a marriage ceremony, an education in the Western tradition, or an instrument rating, then we are that much more likely to care about and assist one another. Which makes for...a civilization. Something we could do with more of.

CrimsonEclipse
10th Oct 2008, 00:41
Find a woman you hate.
Buy her a house.
Save 10 years of your life.

CE

BlueWolf
10th Oct 2008, 00:46
Well said both times Crosshair.

Did the de facto thing for eight years, it was a marriage in all but name, fell apart, did it again for another five years, three of them married; and it is different, I don't care who says it's not, maybe it's more of a commitment at a subconscious level, and maybe that's because of the tradition and connotations thereof.

sisemen
10th Oct 2008, 00:59
It's a good way of getting your washing done without the trip down to the laundromat.

Oh.... and you get assured supplies of rooting (well, mostly)

CityofFlight
10th Oct 2008, 01:53
Having just wrapped up and finalized my divorce this past June--after 10 yrs, I regretfully acknowledge that I am a carrier of the much flawed gene called romanticism. Add that to the traditional upbringing and I was doomed to believe in the sanctity of marriage. Unfortuntately, my ex did not think his dual life would be discovered and worked hard to convince me he was committed. Yeah...right....! :suspect:

I do possess a healthy dose of pragmatism and suffer fools with little patience now. But, should the right person come along, I will "shack up with him" first :eek:, with the goal of a marriage again. :ok: I believe in all that it stands for.

Loose rivets
10th Oct 2008, 03:17
Gosh C of F, if you waz only a teeeeeeenzy bit older!!

pigboat
10th Oct 2008, 03:24
Works for me. We're celebrating our 40th wedding anniversary on Tuesday.

CityofFlight
10th Oct 2008, 03:32
Oh, LR... Dang! Since my emotional age is regressing, we'll never have a chance!:{ Somewhere in my mid 30's, I found my inner child and plan on keeping her around. By the time I'm 90, the diaper and mushy food should just about match my emotional state. :)

But we can worship from a far, no? ;)

Krystal n chips
10th Oct 2008, 04:10
Only a cynic would suggest it's a career option for some members of the fairer sex....see the personals in the Sunday Times and the immortal phrase "accustomed to the finer things in life".....whilst ommitting the minor detail of actually working for them....

YouTube - the eagles--lyin eyes (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UvU6X7S41F4)

thankfully, one is (a) destitute...ie has less than £10m in the bank and (b) one's offer of dining alfresco at a greasy spoon truck stop usually negates any attentions from said ladies. :):E

In the UK it will soon become compulsory under David Cameron....lot's of talk about the family unit as I recall....so that's solved all society's little problems at the stroke of a pen then.......:hmm:

And of course, there's always this:

YouTube - ROY C - SHOTGUN WEDDING (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hU4BR7aP_Y8)

CF,
Would be delighted to show you old fashioned romance.....erm, do you have a tug pilot's licence and can you drive a car with a glider trailer attached for my field landings per chance?......just to avoid any misunderstanding's in the pre.nup you understand......;):E

CityofFlight
10th Oct 2008, 04:33
Krystal... I'm afraid the tug pilots license is not in my future, but you'd be impressed with my driving capabilities!! :ok: ;)

Krystal n chips
10th Oct 2008, 04:57
CF,
No tug pilots licence ? ........I'm distraught !.....:)

CityofFlight
10th Oct 2008, 05:05
Krystal... :{ Distraught? I think naught! :p ;)

Crosshair
10th Oct 2008, 05:08
Love is in the air...

cirrus17
10th Oct 2008, 05:27
Or, for some people such as myself (in the future when I DO get married), the reason is because you have found your soul mate, your one true love, the person who you want to wake up to every morning, to share your hopes and dreams and fears with, the only person in the world who you want to kiss you goodnight :)
(and yes, I'm a hopeless romantic who still believes that there is a disney style happily ever after love out there for everyone. If your relationship hasn't worked out, it simply means they weren't The One)

Krystal n chips
10th Oct 2008, 05:52
CF.

Well OK then, I'll concede on the tugging bit......given your driving expertise, I'll take an auto tow instead.....or a winch launch......and, being the incurable romantic I am, will happily keep you supplied with coffee, soup and bacon sandwiches during your efforts to get me airborne.....now what more could a lady ask for ?.......:p:E

Arm out the window
10th Oct 2008, 06:04
Moving in together, having kids and all the rest is fine if you want to do it that way.

Legally speaking, in this country at least, if you've lived together in a marriage-like relationship for a year or so, the rights of partners to property if there's a split are much the same as if you were married, so that's a non-issue in deciding whether or not to tie the knot.

I've been married twice, second one going strong, and I like the ceremonial and traditional aspect of it - not the peripheral trappings, although the party at my second wedding was the best I've ever been to, but the standing up in front of your social group and saying "This is who I've picked to be with through thick and thin, and I'm proud to say it in front of everyone."
Church or celebrant, doesn't matter, but there's a powerful significance to the ceremony.

CityofFlight
10th Oct 2008, 06:07
Krystal...dear... Coffee, soup and bacon sandwiches....you are a romantic, aren't you? But you need to add dark chocolate and a good Zinfindel or Cab to seal the love connection. ;)

Are you handy with power tools and able to fulfill my HoneyDo list???

And...why should you be the only one who gets to be airborne? This girl loves a good thrill too, you know. :ok:

Miserlou
10th Oct 2008, 06:53
I got married for the legal security of children in the event of either partner's death.

There is also a tax advantage where I live. The amount of upper tax I pay is reduced by the amount my wife's salary is below that limit.

BombayDuck
10th Oct 2008, 07:38
Gosh C of F, if you waz only a teeeeeeenzy bit older!!

Hey LR - you have not heard of the rule, do you? Anyone who is less than (your age/2+7) years is fine! :p

Beatriz Fontana
10th Oct 2008, 07:39
It's merely a legal thing. Helps with sorting out who gets your stuff if you die (or get killed in my case!). And trying to sort out pensions, finances and the rest when the marriage goes to rats is not a short process.

It was once a tax break, wasn't it?

Ah, marriage, yes, but only if the right lad came along. Been there, done that, got my life back.

Storminnorm
10th Oct 2008, 10:08
Bin married 41 yrs, still not figured out WHY??? :rolleyes:

I don't think there is the same attitude to just "living together"
nowadays. The youngsters now just seem to be quite happy
having a "Partner."
It's odd that the local "gay?" community seem to enjoy going
through a civil ceremony, yet the rest don't seem to bother.

It's a funny old world. ;)

Say again s l o w l y
10th Oct 2008, 11:03
You don't understand it because you are a bloke!

Seriously I never saw the point either, but I was totally committed to my partner and I could see how much it hurt her that I wouldn't take that step and confirm it.

So we got married and you know what, it's been the best thing I've ever done. End of story.
We've just celebrated our first anniversary and to say that a "piece of paper" doesn't make a difference is so wrong it's untrue.

If you've found the right person, then there isn't a lot of point mucking about really. Onus is on the right person and not rushing into something you'll later regret.

It is a risk, but so is anything worth doing.

I had a very similar conversation with a mate a couple of years ago. Now looking at it from another angle. I realise how stupid and naieve I was then when it came to relationships.

Flame Lily FX
10th Oct 2008, 11:03
Oh.... and you get assured supplies of rooting (well, mostly)


Rooting? :confused:

How long does it take you to sprout, hmm?

:p

panda-k-bear
10th Oct 2008, 11:47
I don't actually believe that you have made a commitment unless there's some sort of registration of that commitment... you're still just free to go off and do as you please, really, aren't you.

Maybe it's an old fashioned notion but I actually love my wife and believe that marrying her demonstrates that in a tangible way - and declares it to everyone who knows us. Whether you do or not is, of course, entirely up to you... Just one of those things, I guess.

It demonstrates, in our society, that she's much more than just a casual fling... and there's a really nice feeling, in my opinion, associated to actually "belonging" to someone. That's not the same as "owning" before anyone jumps in!

airborne_artist
10th Oct 2008, 11:56
My father re-married three years before his death. His widow was able to receive his entire estate free of tax, and was able to give my sister and I the share in his estate that my father intended, also free of tax, provided she survived seven years (which we covered with insurance).

My father's re-marriage prevented about £250k going to Gordon :ok:

chuks
10th Oct 2008, 12:02
It seemed like a good idea at the time!

Too Short
10th Oct 2008, 12:04
I'm an ex-lawyer who specialised in probate law and family law. My comments here are based on the law of England and Wales (Scotland and Ireland have different jurisdictions and as such differing laws, although there are some similarities).

There are some very common misconceptions regarding death and separation of married and unmarried partners. I've seen one or two on this thread, hence this slight thread-drift post. Unfortunately, too often, I have dealt with cases where these misconceptions have been relied upon with the result of ultimately causing a lot of distress to clients (especially in death cases). I have lost count of the number of times a client has sat in front of me and said "oh I'm glad you told me that, my mate (in similar situation) told me XYZ". Sadly, many people don't realise that a sometimes the smallest detail which differs between someone you know's situation and your own can make a big difference in law!

This is not scaremongering, it's the truth. I have nothing to gain by saying what I'm about to say as I am no longer in the profession so don't shoot me down (I know that "99% of lawyers give the rest of us a bad name", especially on these threads!). I'm simply posting this to prevent even just one messy situation for somebody.

I would advise you to seek legal advice if any of these apply:-

You are unmarried but living together, do not have wills and believe that you have the same rights as married couples on death because you are 'common law spouses'.

You are married, you do not have wills and you believe that your spouse will automatically inherit everything.

If you are married or unmarried, have wills, or not, but one or both of you have children from previous relationships.

You made a will and have subsequently got married, even if that will left everything to your partner, now spouse.

You have a home made will. This is the biggest source of distress I have ever seen please, please, please have your will professionally drawn up and properly signed and witnessed. There are so many pitfalls to render a will invalid for a variety of reasons. A few extra quid spent having one drawn up professionally can save a hell of a lot of quid, and distress to loved ones after you're gone. A lot of home made wills are fine, but the consequences of one not being fine are awful. Trust me.

You are in any way concerned about who gets what when you die.

Finally, if you are unmarried but living together and think there may be inheritance tax to pay on one of your deaths - if you want to save tax, don't see a lawyer, get married (but bear in mind inheritance tax rules do change!). Absurd isn't it!

Just another misconception - on divorce or separation assets are not always split 50/50 and neither does the wife automatically get more. The divison of assets is influenced by many factors and is pretty complex. In short though, things such as length of marriage/relationship, who had what at the start of the marriage, who has what now, who will have the children living with them, contributions both parties have made to the finances and the marriage etc. are some of them.

Obtaining advice on your situation doesn't have to cost the earth. Large scale legal fees are usually in connection with court proceedings and lengthy or complex cases, not a half hour, or hour chat in the office, or to have a will drawn up. You can discuss fees on the phone before you make an appointment, don't be put off raising the issue, lawyers are subject to strict practice rules which insist that they are open and honest about fees. At the very least ask what your lawyer's hourly rate is (remember to ask if that is inc or ex VAT). Look out for firms who offer a free half hour, or hour's advice this should be plenty for you to get the information you need. Be wary of will writing companies who offer very cheap wills, they may have substantial admin fees for storage, or the release from storage of your will. Most solicitors store your will, and release it to you free of charge. The CAB don't write wills but can give you free advice.

Hope that's of assistance to someone.

TS

ruddman
10th Oct 2008, 12:07
A lifetime of hot steamy guilt free sex.



I love it.

Too Short
10th Oct 2008, 12:13
Nice one Ruddman! ;)

airborne_artist
10th Oct 2008, 12:22
Large scale legal fees are usually in connection with court proceedings and lengthy or complex cases, not a half hour, or hour chat in the office, or to have a will drawn up.

It cost us £10,000 to sort out the mess/potential IHT bill created by a will drawn up by a solicitor :ugh:

Captain Stable
10th Oct 2008, 12:24
The way I see it, if you don't get married, you're in effect saying to your "partner" that you're not 100% committed to the relationship and that you reserve the right to head out any time the going gets too tough.

Let me point out that "society" in effect dictates the view that peole have of marriage, like it or not.

If you get married and, religious service or civil ceremony, you are standing up in front of your friends and family and saying to your parnter "It's you, and only you, until I die, and I will do my damnedest to support you and whatever children we may have, and when the going gets tough, we will tough it out, and if it stops being fun we will find a way to make it fun again".

I made those promises to my wife, and I intend to keep them. She knows that, and she has made the same promises to me.

I'm fully aware that, for some people, getting married and having (or adopting) children is a matter more of lust mingled with making a lifestyle choice. Their loss.

My wife and I talk at least once per day, even when (on occasion) separated by thousands of miles for months at a time. We have our fair share of rows, disagreements, times when we don't see each other for a while, when one of comes home knackered hoping for a meal to be ready and waiting only to find the other half is flaked out having also had a bad day, and we work together to support each other instead of expecting everything from the other person.

No, it's not a 50:50 marriage. It's a 100:0 marriage. In other words, 50:50 is a bargain - "I'll give 50% if you give 50%". No. We each give 100%, expecting nothing back. But what we each get back is far, far more than 100%.

Would it have been any different, I hear you ask, if we were just the same people in the same relationship without the bit of paper? Yes, I contend it would. There would not have been that element of promising in front of the 50 or so people we most cared about in the world. We had a civil marriage, since we were brought up in different (but similar) religions, and the religious bit is still in the background of how we try to think and act, but it wasn't a "sacred promise to God". It was simply a sacred promise to each other. And we'll both keep it.

Too Short
10th Oct 2008, 12:35
Well AA, I obviously can't comment on the case without knowing all the facts and neither am I in the game of defending somebody I don't know anything about just because they share my ex-profession.

However, with anything in life, not everybody is perfect. We are all only human and mistakes happen. Sometimes expensive ones. Sometimes a doctor makes a misdiagnosis, sometimes a manufacturing fault causes an accident. Again, I'm not being defensive of this particular solicitor, just stating a fact.

My comment about advice not costing the earth was directed at people who would like advice on any of the misconceptions I raised, i.e. a half hour or hour talking things through. This will not cost the thousands that people associate with legal fees as these are the domain, as your case proves, of court proceedings or complex matters.

I should add to my post that when choosing a lawyer definitely go with one who specialises in wills, probate and if a concern, inheritance tax. I'm not saying in your case AA that the solicitor concerned was not an 'expert', as they too are human, it just occurred to me that quite a few non-specialist solicitors dabble in this complex area and occasionally get it wrong. On the whole though, the vast majority of specialists get it very right.

As I say, I have nothing to gain from my post, and I stand by my advice.

Wader2
10th Oct 2008, 12:50
As Beatriz says, its a legal thing. It is also for some people a religious thing. Other than that - no point at all and a £10k to £20k bill on top.

Odd also how many long term relationships proceed 'smoothly' through:

living together, child 1, child 2, marriage, divorce with the period between marriage and divorce being less than living to marriage. Of course if you didn't get married then divorce would not be an option :}

airborne_artist
10th Oct 2008, 13:03
Too Short. I agree with your sentiments entirely. It would be good, however if the Law Society could regulate its solicitor members properly, and licence them for specific areas of legal practice, rather than just have them roam at will across the legal plain.

Look at aviation - no pilot can jump from an Islander to an A380 without a type-rating - yet a solicitor has no such restriction.

Storminnorm
10th Oct 2008, 13:09
I always tell everyone that we had to get married.
I"d been wqrking in HOLLAND before we were in the
common Market as it was then.
Met the future Memsahib over there and just KNEW
it was the real thing.
I came back to the UK and she followed a few weeks
later.
She arrived at Manchester Airport and the Immigration
guy there wasn't going to let her into the country.
He made a PA call for me to go to the Immigration
office to confirm the Memsahib's,(to be), story, which
of course I did.
But he only gave her a VISA,(Would you believe!!) for
3 months.
Hence, We had to get married!!! no regrets!!:ok:

Too Short
10th Oct 2008, 13:45
It would be good, however if the Law Society could regulate its solicitor members properly, and licence them for specific areas of legal practice, rather than just have them roam at will across the legal plain.



Absolutely couldn't agree more! :D

One firm I worked at had a 'risk assessment procedure' (I think as a condition of their insurance policy). This involved a lengthy form to fill in before the client came into the office for the first meeting, which then had to be approved by the head of department, and then a subsequent risk assessment form following the first meeting, again, to receive the nod from the head of department before work could commence. The paperwork was a huge pain in an already time pressured job but I could entirely see the point, which was to assess whether the lawyer doing the job was qualfied, knowlegeable and experienced enough to undertake that particular matter. I think the procedure could have been simplified somewhat but I certainly approved of the aim of it.

dazdaz
10th Oct 2008, 14:20
Why buy a book, when one could join a library:ok:

Too Short
10th Oct 2008, 14:48
Or, on the other side of the coin, as a friend of mine used to say:

"why have burgers when I've got fillet steak at home"

To this day I'm not sure if he was referring to femmes or if he really did have fillet steak in the fridge all the time... he liked his grub...

CUNIM
10th Oct 2008, 14:50
One primary reason to get married is to bring up children in a stable family environment. There are statistics out there that stress the advantages that children coming from a stable married relationship fare better than children who grow up in a "Partnership". And yes I know that there are many success stories, but overall the married status is a proven sound environment for healthy children. At long last the penny has seemed to have dropped with our political classes and the reappearance of the marriage allowance would not seem to be unlikely now. I could go on about the current decline in behavioural standards, but this has now been a recognised result of the laissez faire attitude to relationships.
Head down for incoming flak.

Barnaby the Bear
10th Oct 2008, 15:00
Downside is you can't fart in bed anymore.

Why not?

http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/WipeButt.gif

Beatriz Fontana
10th Oct 2008, 15:24
Cunim,

That's fine, but when you're stuck in a relationship where one party has no interest in working on resolution of problems, then I'm glad the law is there.

No problem, really, with my shark / solicitor. I was up against a dedicated "family" lawyer who seemed to know less about the family laws than I did (and I only do media law!). It's all about the solicitor's experience, not whether they specialise.

Skypilot
10th Oct 2008, 15:33
There are statistics out there that stress the advantages that children coming from a stable married relationship fare better than children who grow up in a "Partnership".

There may be statistics, but in this case I would argue that they are of the sort that don't prove anything! The only figures that I have ever seen quoted are far too simplistic to draw any accurate conclusions from.

If you only look at national statistics the problem is that the two groups being compared are not random but self-selecting. The real reason for any apparent skew could then easily be due to some unrelated factor - perhaps the average income of the married group was higher, for instance.

Unless the two groups you are comparing are statistically equivalent in every respect apart from whether or not they chose to get married you can't draw the conclusion that marriage alone was the reason why the children appeared to benefit!

Storminnorm
10th Oct 2008, 15:43
dazdaz.
Alternatively, Why buy a brewery just because one
enjoys an occasional pint? :ok:

VH-MLE
10th Oct 2008, 15:46
My wife (Maria) and I got married because: (a) we loved each other; and (b) we wanted to. Additionally, we always felt that we would be together permanently. However, due to my work and a few other factors, we put off having kids until a bit later in life - 37 in my case.

Now we have 3 children (aged 6-12), but unfortunately Maria is no longer with us, having passed away at the very young age of 43 due to cancer. Whether we were married or not is largely irrelevant I guess, however personally I do believe that marriage provides a level of stability that otherwise may not be there - especially for our kids who are now down to a single parent.

In summary (and from my own personal perspective only), if you love one another and are committed, then marriage is a great way to go.

Just my thoughts ....

Cheers.

VH-MLE

dazdaz
10th Oct 2008, 15:51
"Alternatively, Why buy a brewery just because one
enjoys an occasional pint? :ok:"

Stormin..It's free to join a library:ok:

Having said that, who's noticed the 'Penis' pill banners on here? I'm quite happy with 4.5" why would I want a bigger one?:eek:

Too Short
10th Oct 2008, 16:32
It's all about the solicitor's experience, not whether they specialise.


Although, experience within a specialism is surely better than just experience per se. If it's a choice between the two, I'd rather have someone specialised in their field over general experience. A specialist has to undertake CPD courses and training in practice and law updates relevant to their field.

I also had colleagues who were newly qualified but very switched on with their subject and put the well respected head of department with 30 years' experience right on one or two points of law!

Beatriz Fontana
10th Oct 2008, 16:46
dazdaz,

I'm quite happy with 4.5" why would I want a bigger one?http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/eek.gifAsk the girls.... :O

OK, that's unfair. It's not the size, but what you do with it.....


Too short, then maybe my ex's solicitor just wasn't as good as mine!

AndoniP
10th Oct 2008, 16:52
good question.

i'm getting married in july next year but have often wondered why we get married in churches instead of just living with each other and being loyal to them. surely if the love is true then there is no need to show it to anyone, you just get on with the process of living together.

personally i'm not religious at all but my fiancee and our families are. i could just live with her and live happily ever after, but hey, if i have to spend a day dressed up, go to a strange place to hear a priest singing strange stuff at me (greek orthodox), then go to a hall to eat, drink and dance a lot then i don't mind going through with it just to be with that someone for the rest of my life.

:ok:

p.s. of course you can fart in bed! she does it too

Too Short
10th Oct 2008, 17:00
Too short, then maybe my ex's solicitor just wasn't as good as mine!


Would appear so, but that's a good thing, right? ;) :}


AdoniP - as for your p.s., are you sure it's not the dog [or insert something else to blame if you don't have a dog]? Girls don't commit such vulgar acts :E

Beatriz Fontana
10th Oct 2008, 17:04
Oh yes! I didn't go for money, just happiness and freedom.

And the cat.

kansasw
10th Oct 2008, 17:16
For the same reason that monkeys jack off in the zoo. Because they can.

Should I get my hat and coat?

effortless
10th Oct 2008, 17:16
Because if you die married, then the marital home is not taken into consideration for inheritance tax. A mate died last year and his partner had to borrow £100,000 to pay the tax in order to get probate so that she could sell the house and pay back the loan. :ugh:

cockney steve
10th Oct 2008, 17:22
[QUOTE][Having said that, who's noticed the 'Penis' pill banners on here? I'm quite happy with 4.5" why would I want a bigger one?/QUOTE]

missed that, but there again, i get about a dozen e-mail solicitations a day for that stuff, along with all the lovely Eastern Bloc ladies who'd LOVE to hear from me!

on thread. My Ex left a loveless, sexless, childless" marriage" for me

I had a house (paid) another on mortgage, good job, company car, expenses.....

she had a car and reclaimed her washing machine and her clothes from the rented flat
we lived together, she wouldn't divorce her "ex" because it would have "destroyed" him. we settled down....a stable relatoinship produced a child.
the "spare" house , some 250 miles away, was sold....my job was in a seriously declining sector, but I could see a business opportunity, locally. the money from the house, together with 3 times as much in loan/overdraft, was used to start a business.

A solicitor was consulted, insurance was taken to ensure her,and soon to be 2 children's futures,should I croak. Partner refused point-blank to be incorporated in the deeds of our home or the business premises-despite it conferring 50% ownership (but it also made her responsible for MY debts! )....I worked long hours, money was short.....when our third child started school, she went back to work, part-time.....cash was tight,but we did manage the odd week's camping/caravan holiday....then the business got wiped out by a fire...head up my arse,she withdrew...MY property, MY problem! eventually, we parted,having lived separate lives in the same house for 2 years(kids stuck in the middle :(
Youngest was then about 14...I sold the derelict site and offered her a figure to leave....there was a major scene, as she'd been expecting half of everything"

Folks! take note of what "Too Short" said .- I consulted with a solicitor, before offering about 1/3 of total assets...now, the "EX" was a Legal Secretary and well connected. but she had to accept my offer.

10 years later...I still miss the warmth, intimacy,companionship and ,yes, the sex. All three of our kids are in touch with both their parents, in good jobs, well-adjusted,responsible balanced adults.

A marriage certificate would not have made a jot of difference to a relationship based on trust...she is the only woman Ihave ever slept with and AFAIK, there was no other party involved with her....just ,IMHO, the menopause made her unstable and she was in total denial.
Had I been married, I would be more inclined to think I'd been used as a meal-ticket and sperm-donor :rolleyes: Luckily, she destroyed our relationship before I got "trapped" :}

those who do have a successful ,long relationship, i envy you. I console myself that I had about 15 good years,which was a lot longer than an awful lot of marriages last and was a lot cheaper to end.(IIRC, the Solicitor's fee and letter of offer was about £60 all -in )

" Divorce is expensive.......because it's worth it! "

G-CPTN
10th Oct 2008, 17:27
A mate died last year and his partner had to borrow £100,000 to pay the tax in order to get probate so that she could sell the house and pay back the loan.That is the 'killer' - you have to pay the inheritance tax before you can have access to any of the assets . . .

airship
10th Oct 2008, 20:06
I apologise for not being able to come up with any other reasons not already brought up previously, so I thought I'd take another tack. If people didn't marry...

There wouldn't be thousands of people involved in making and selling all those marvellous wedding dresses. We wouldn't need bridesmaids. Noone would have wedding photos of the cheeky little boy trying to sneak a look under the bride's wedding gown. Even more churches would fall into disrepair and be abandonned. More birds would starve because noone throws rice about anymore. More Africans would starve because there would be fewer customers for their flower exports. Printers might go out of business from the lack of printed invitations. Catering firms might go out of business. Friends and family wouldn't be able to make utter fools of themselves making speeches or just letting go at the receptions anymore.

On the plus side though, parents would not have to worry about where the money for the wedding was going to come from. Lawyers might actually be forced to look for work elsewhere instead of feeding on and encouraging everyone else's most basic instincts if (or when) wedded bliss turns sour. There might be fewer people with double-barrelled surnames (if that's the right term)?

What if marriage has simply been hijacked by economic interests, rather like Xmas (sorry, Christmas) has been...?!

Beatriz Fontana
10th Oct 2008, 20:15
...And Halloween, airship!

Once it was pagans celebrating the end of the year and remembering the elders and those who had died with some food and ale.

Now is fecking trick or trick and tacky costumes!!

Bah. Humbug.

Gnirren
10th Oct 2008, 22:17
The way I see it, if you don't get married, you're in effect saying to your "partner" that you're not 100% committed to the relationship and that you reserve the right to head out any time the going gets too tough.

Let me point out that "society" in effect dictates the view that peole have of marriage, like it or not.

If you get married and, religious service or civil ceremony, you are standing up in front of your friends and family and saying to your parnter "It's you, and only you, until I die, and I will do my damnedest to support you and whatever children we may have, and when the going gets tough, we will tough it out, and if it stops being fun we will find a way to make it fun again".

I made those promises to my wife, and I intend to keep them. She knows that, and she has made the same promises to me.

I'm fully aware that, for some people, getting married and having (or adopting) children is a matter more of lust mingled with making a lifestyle choice. Their loss.

My wife and I talk at least once per day, even when (on occasion) separated by thousands of miles for months at a time. We have our fair share of rows, disagreements, times when we don't see each other for a while, when one of comes home knackered hoping for a meal to be ready and waiting only to find the other half is flaked out having also had a bad day, and we work together to support each other instead of expecting everything from the other person.

No, it's not a 50:50 marriage. It's a 100:0 marriage. In other words, 50:50 is a bargain - "I'll give 50% if you give 50%". No. We each give 100%, expecting nothing back. But what we each get back is far, far more than 100%.

Would it have been any different, I hear you ask, if we were just the same people in the same relationship without the bit of paper? Yes, I contend it would. There would not have been that element of promising in front of the 50 or so people we most cared about in the world. We had a civil marriage, since we were brought up in different (but similar) religions, and the religious bit is still in the background of how we try to think and act, but it wasn't a "sacred promise to God". It was simply a sacred promise to each other. And we'll both keep it.

Now this is more like it, interesting stuff. Here's my take on that, particularly with regards to trust. I would prefer to actually give the better half a way out, that way I actually know that she's staying for love. The more you lock someone in with legalities the less sure you'll be, but if walking out is easy as pie and your partner sticks with it? Plus, what kind of trust issue is there if your partner says to you "unless we get married you don't love me enough"? Is that even a fair thing to say to someone? I wouldn't.

A healthy relationship is a healthy relationship and I think it's hard to accept it when someone looks at a healthy and loving relationship and says, "well yeah... but you're not married" as if that somehow illegitimises it all. I also find the insinuation that people who don't marry are short-term thrillseekers who only care about themselves offensive. Seems no matter how happy you may be with someone it's just not quite good enough unless there are documents to "prove" it. It's almost as if these critics would rather have a so and so marriage over a fantastic unmarried relationship. To my ears it just smacks of insecurity.

Clearly I don't get it.

The way I see it, if you don't get married, you're in effect saying to your "partner" that you're not 100% committed to the relationship and that you reserve the right to head out any time the going gets too tough.

Yes but you still can, by filing for a divorce.

If you love each other, then that will be quite enough regardless of wows, number of witnesses or the height of the cake. If you don't love each other then you can shout it out on national tv, get matching tattoos, have 5 kids and marry in three different vegas chapels with elvis present and it won't matter. No love = not going to work.

And that's my question, if you already have the love what's the marriage for?

Say again s l o w l y
10th Oct 2008, 22:32
No one can tell you what getting married will mean to you. It's different for us all.

You can say that you don't see the point etc.etc.etc. until the cows come home, but if she does and you don't. Then mate. You are in for a rough old patch.

Rationality doesn't come into it. You can say "I love you" until you are blue in the face. Some women will accept it.
BUT, most won't and won't really, truly believe it until you are standing next to them in front of all your friends and family spouting it out for all to hear.

The old phrase "Actions speak louder than words" comes to mind and what ever your rational thoughts about divorce and kids etc mean diddly squat compared to a woman who believes in getting married.

I happen to agree with you. Having kids and buying a house together is a far bigger committment than getting hitched, but you are missing the point somewhat.

A wedding has nothing to do with the groom. It's her day and never ever forget that!

Gnirren
10th Oct 2008, 22:42
Hm I would say it comes down to definition of love then. If I say "I love you" and she doesn't believe me then I don't think she loves me back. In that case I'd rather keep looking. :p

Whirlygig
10th Oct 2008, 22:49
If I say "I love you" and she doesn't believe me then I don't think she loves me back.
Depends on the sincerity with which you say it; "I love you" ranks alongside "the cheque's in the post" and "Of course, I won't ....(you know the rest!) as one of The Great Eternal Lies.

I'm always sceptical about people who take an anti-marriage stance; you under pressure eh Gnirren?

Cheers

Whirls

Say again s l o w l y
10th Oct 2008, 22:50
Don't confuse love and commitment. They are 2 totally different things! Not in our eyes obviously, but who are we to have an opinion....................!

She believes you love her, but not that you'll stay through thick and thin. Whereas a married bloke is less likely (in their eyes) to leg it when the going gets tough.

Relationships.....Why is it that Men and Women are so different sometimes?

Beatriz Fontana
10th Oct 2008, 22:53
I'm with you there, Gnirren. Words are ok, but the meaning is more important by far.

You'll find her one day.

Gnirren
10th Oct 2008, 23:05
Hehe, no pressure. I just take an interest because this gets people really worked up I guess. Whenever I've discussed this with friends the conversation gets heated :) I suppose this is one of those things you just don't question eh.

Which might just be why I do :D

Would you feel nice and comfy then with a half-hearted "I love you" just as long as it came from the guy you married?

Whirlygig
10th Oct 2008, 23:13
The reason discussions get so heated is, like talking about religion, any disagreement is seen as a personal sleight. Gnirren, you asked why people get married, and some ppruners have answered. Then when you come back with an "anti" stance, it's no wonder it gets animated. You are criticising something that is very personal and individual.

Your question has been answered very well by a number of folk.

Cheers

Whirls

CityofFlight
11th Oct 2008, 00:23
As many have said, the concept is as different as one's values. But I believe that 'I love you' should be earned and not said lightly. It needs to remain long after the infatuation stage because it has to get through the ups and downs that are part of any relationship.

:ok: Best of luck to anyone entering into this phase.

Arm out the window
11th Oct 2008, 01:52
Off track slightly:

Coincidentally, I was thinking about the 'saying I love you' thing this morning after dropping one of the kids off to someone's place - we said it to each other as he got out of the car.

We often say 'I love you' in our family (me, wife, kids) 'cos that's just what we do, whereas I don't think I ever got it from my old man when he was alive. I never felt unloved, quite the opposite, but it wasn't something that was said.

I suspect numerous people have been in relationships (family or partner) where 'I love you' wasn't said for one reason or another.
The thing is, it can be said and not meant, and also meant but not said, if you get my drift. We don't say it 'lightly' - it always has meaning, and when my kids or wife say it to me I feel the significance of our committment to one another.

Right, enough of that - how about the football, eh!!

CityofFlight
11th Oct 2008, 03:02
Arm out the window.... I couldn't agree more!

My ex and his kids said 'I love you' or 'love you" like one would say hello or p!$$ off. It was odd to me. Because when I told them that, which wasn't at every phone call or departure, but distinct meaningful times, I meant it dearly. Which explains a great deal in my ex's approach to marriage and the manner in which his now grown kids have pretty much ignored my efforts to remain in their lives--after what I thought was a loving 10 yrs with them. :ugh:

Oh well....if I had to do it over with them, I wouldn't change a thing. I still love them. My ex, on the other hand...I'd never have wasted 10 yrs after what I know of the first 2-3 years!

rotornut
11th Oct 2008, 15:47
Forget the philosophy, now for some comic relief:

LiveLeak.com - Man trips and throws bride and parson into pool. (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6b0_1223647591)

Squeegee Longtail
11th Oct 2008, 17:00
...but you can do ALL the above without being married. Get a will, then they're covered if you "land short". Apart from that, the only other reason is TAX. Very romantic reason to sign a contract (not!).

We've been 'as one' (!) for over 5 yrs, have two beautiful children and don't feel any pressure. We are both blissfully happy without needing a legal contract. Our children are our binding contract.

Whirlygig
11th Oct 2008, 17:12
It's not just a question of tax; there's also the issue of legal next-of-kin. If you're on a life support machine, who do you want to make the decision to turn it off or keep it on? At the moment Squeegee, your next of kin are your parents.

Cheers

Whirls

NWSRG
11th Oct 2008, 17:49
For me, the act of marriage does make a difference. Before we got married, I had known for most of our relationship that I didn't ever want to be without my now wife. And she felt the same about me. So we were committed to each other. But after getting married, we both agreed that something does change. I can't put my finger on it, but the relationship really does get stronger. The Bible talks about a man cleaving unto his wife...I always assumed that that phrase referred to the fun bits! It does, but it also means something much deeper, although again, it is difficult to quantify. And on a simpler level, marriage has made me feel more confident and self-assured.

Tis a good thing! (As long as you choose the right one!)

CityofFlight
11th Oct 2008, 18:33
Way to go, NWSRG! :ok: I love it that there are men who have posted here, that have those powerful connections to their wives and that marriage strengthened that for them. :D:D

larssnowpharter
11th Oct 2008, 19:04
Why do people marry?

The first time I got married - looking back on it - the reason was probably because it was expected of us and all our mates were getting married. Totally the wrong reasons, I accept.

The result was two great kids and both of us struggling to understand the other for around 20 yrs and sticking together 'for the kids' and because we did take those vows seriously.

I never expected to remarry. I was a cynic of the worst order. There were 'companions' on the way and all worthy ladies but no-one I really felt I wanted to spend my life with.

That is until I met (the now) Senora Lars. Young, beautiful, charismatic, professional. One was totally bowled over! Never did understand what she saw in me!

We lived together for 2 yrs.

I realised that I would be happy (more than that, ecstatic) if I woke up with her each morning. We got married 5 yrs ago.

We now have the sproglettes.

We are still ecstatic.

Shunter
11th Oct 2008, 19:10
The way I see it, if you don't get married, you're in effect saying to your "partner" that you're not 100% committed to the relationship and that you reserve the right to head out any time the going gets too tough.Bollocks.

I'm 32, have been with my partner for 10 years, perfectly happy. Neither of us has any wish to get married. What we would however like is the same perks offered to those who are. We are both staunch athiests, and want nothing to do with religious ceremonies, or those derived from them.

A civil partnership would be just up our street but unfortunately I'm male and she's female, hence we are discriminated against because we are a heterosexual couple. The "church" would never tolerate gay weddings, so gays get civil partnerships. If CP's hadn't been restricted to gays only, the sickeningly powerful church would have put as many spanners in the works as possible as this would constitute a threat to their monopoly.

G-CPTN
11th Oct 2008, 19:26
I thought that a Register Office 'wedding' (of man and woman) was totally devoid of religion (and therefore would meet your requirements)?

Howard Hughes
11th Oct 2008, 21:45
A civil partnership would be just up our street but unfortunately I'm male and she's female,
Get on an aircraft, get to Mauritius and have a very 'civil' service on the beach, that's what Mrs Hughes and I did!

As for the original question, people marry to be together!

Marriage is about honour, it is not about rights, wills, tax, children or even commitment, you can do all of these without marriage! But when you are married you honour the person you love by dedicating yourself solely to them!:ok:

Say again s l o w l y
12th Oct 2008, 11:09
??????

Who says that heterosexual couples can't have a civil marriage? Gay couples still can't legally get married, but they can have a civil partnership which gives them the same rights as a married couple, but without them being actually married.

So if you want a commitment to your partner, get married in a civil ceremony. It doesn't have to be in a registry office, you can basically get married anywhere (there are provisos and paperwork) so why worry about what gay couples can do, when you can do an awful lot more as "straight" couple?

Ace Rimmer
12th Oct 2008, 11:58
To go back to the original question; In my case because I thought it might turn out to be the smartest thing I'd ever do



getting on for 15 years later...


I can only report this hypothesis proved:ok::ok::ok:


(sadly for Mrs R it's probably been the dumbest thing she's done but hey she's a Catholic and so the suffering is good for her soul!:E:E:E)

Captain Stable
12th Oct 2008, 14:16
Shunter, that wasn't a very polite reply.

You make that one-word retort and then commence talking a load of the same stuff of which you accuse me.

If you had read my post properly you would have noted that my wife and I had a civil ceremony rather than a religious one. There was not a single mention of God (or Allah or Jehovah or Shiva...) the whole time and, believe me, I was paying attention just in case he slipped something in about me giving her all my possessions without the same thing the other way round :E - no, I jest.

I'm not sure what makes you say that Civil Partnerships are limited to gay couples only, either. Do you think that people have to sign an affidavit as to their sexuality before being allowed to have a CP? So please stuff your prejudices against gays where the sun don't shine and, if you want the benefits that married people have, get married. Whether you do it in a religious or a civil ceremony is entirely up to you. But don't use your lack of commitment to bitch at other people.

kiwi chick
13th Oct 2008, 01:39
The way I see it, if you don't get married, you're in effect saying to your "partner" that you're not 100% committed to the relationship and that you reserve the right to head out any time the going gets too tough.

I say "bollocks" to that too, but I DID get married.

I got married because I wanted my chicklets to have parents who were married, I wanted to have the same name as my children, I wanted to wear a wedding ring for the world to see I had made a commitment to my man, and I wanted to be called Mrs Watsername to again show the world I was committed to my man.

I can't believe I married a man whose last name was Watsername :}

I'm now divorced, but it hasn't put me off marriage one little bit - I'd marry again in a heartbeat if I met the right person. However, it would be for different reasons - there will be no more chicklets, so it would be purely a self-indulgence thing - this is MY man, I'm HIS woman, I wear his ring and take his name.

But as several people have said - it's a very personal thing and I in no way think that anyone SHOULD get married - do whatever flips your skirt. :ok:

Buster Hyman
13th Oct 2008, 02:10
do whatever flips your skirt
Over to you Howard....

Howard Hughes
13th Oct 2008, 02:13
Oh stop it Bwuster, or i'll hit you with my handbag...:p

Buster Hyman
13th Oct 2008, 02:20
Bwuster? Is dat a wisp Howard???;)

Howard Hughes
13th Oct 2008, 02:28
Well it ain't mistyped, look where the B and the W are on the keyboard!;)

Buster Hyman
13th Oct 2008, 03:01
Maybe you were wearing another outfit at the time?

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:kDq0qCAPPts7RM:http://horsesnsaddles.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/horse_typing_at_computer.27405244_std.gif

kiwi chick
15th Oct 2008, 03:35
Stop it boys, you make me want to propose. :ok:

Buster Hyman
15th Oct 2008, 04:29
That's not really Howard in that picture Chikky.....

kluge
15th Oct 2008, 05:33
The definition of a second marriage is a triumph of hope over experience.

Loose rivets
15th Oct 2008, 07:46
About 43 years ago I met this wonderful, warm, utterly beautiful, and hugely sexy woman. When we went out together, people would stare admiringly, and once, when we entered the theater, the entire audience became silent, their eyes following her to our seats.

Whatever I was doing, any time night or day, my mind would flash to her, and a thrill would run down my spine. Walking out, the sky would be pink on the days I was with her, and when she was absent, they would be grey. I longed for her next touch, the hours until I next saw her seemed like eternities. She was perfect.

So why the flippin' heck did I marry the Rivetess? :}

kiwi chick
15th Oct 2008, 22:04
Hahahahahahahahaha!!!!! :d

CityofFlight
16th Oct 2008, 04:27
Oh, LR... we had some great times, didn't we? :) ;)










P.S. Business trip + many wines with dinner= delusions of grandeur. Sorry! :\

Howard Hughes
16th Oct 2008, 04:41
Are you saying Loose is your father CofF?;)

CityofFlight
16th Oct 2008, 05:13
HH...guess my math doesn't add up, but what a lovely memory he had 43 yrs later! :O :D

Loose rivets
16th Oct 2008, 07:31
Oh, LR... we had some great times, didn't we? http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif ;)Coo...Don't I wish!;)


Thing is, that the Rivetess was, and is, a reet corker. (What the heck does that mean?) But while Clare (her real name...and yes, I'd like to meet her again.) had the looks of a Nordic beauty, the Rivetess is a lovely mixture of English French German and without doubt, Indian. There are no records of her Indianness, but it's plain for all to see, and her very good fortune. Born down the road from Sir Cliff. anyway, I digress. Clare wanted to work abroad, and I had had enough of girls that wanted to do that. Just lost the love of my life to an Italian. Grief! Now the next one wants to see the world. Gugger off gen. I said as she left...without moving my lips.

Now it came to pass that a lovely lady was staying in a friend's house where our gang congregated. I admired her beauty, but was a tad daunted by her having a son that was substantially bigger than me. Anyway, my pal's girlfriend suggested I date her daughter. It's a blind date that I haven't been able to forget. She smiled awkwardly when she saw me...I was later to learn that it was her look of abject disappointment. It was the big ears, cross eyes and flat-top haircut that put her off. :}

Anyway, the one thing that we did that I never did with Clare, was really talk. By the end of the evening I'd told her my life story, recited War and Peace and probably sung the Marriage of Figaro. She had to feed me Polo mints to keep my voice from breaking. We dated several times and found ourselves going steady.

It was strange to go with a 19 year old that had never been out with a boy.

Then Clare came back. By back, I mean to that house, while we were there. Cripes! Clare was ushered into the front room, while the Rivetess was out the back. They both knew.

I went in to say hello to Clare. Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeppppppppppers! I could not believe my eyes. Her thick blond hair had grown some, and was flowing over the most intense red two-piece. She had to have been made up by a professional...she looked stunning. Furthermore, she was more than welcoming. What's a chap to do? Would they both come down to Fri...Nah!, that ain't going to work.

I spent the next half hour making excuses to leave whichever room I was in, and stroll, without unseemly haste, into the other room. Suddenly The Rivetesse's sister turns up to take her home. I bid her a fond farewell, as she asked me so sweetly to behave myself. :bored: < my face on giving such an assurance. :E < my face after she'd left...and I'd looked up the road three times to make sure she wasn't coming back. I took Clare out to dinner with our pals.

I missed the conversation. One thing looking at a stunning woman, the other is keeping quiet. Now I'm sure you'd never believe this, but I have a tough time maintaining a debonair silence. But miss the conversation I did, the quiet smile, the modest and rather mature dress code. Ah well, I'll just go out with....No! That won't work either. She'll know.

For the life of me, I can't remember how it ended. There then followed 43 years of the most tempestuous relationship imaginable. It started out well. I recall saying to one of my captains that we were expecting twins. "Cor, I bet that was a surprise." Said he. "You bet it was...we're getting married next month. Hoots of laughter on the voice recorder.

The quiet angel had another side. Tick ‘er off, and you may as well get hold of the tail of a tiger...then sink your teeth into it. An angel with Daemonic strength.

Anyway, three kids in eleven months, and the trimmings of a good life. You'd think that would do wouldn't you. Well, it's been a rough ride. My fault, but rough as hell. Never content, never knowing what I was looking for. Now, sitting in piles of photos looking back over all these years, I can't even think of a title for the McDoo's What would you call your memoirs? thread.

The answer had to be out there...the answer to Life the Universe etc., has to be. But as yet, I'm darned if I can see any reason for it all.

If I could do it all again, I'd live like Jack Lemon in How to Murder Your Wife. Not the murder bit I hasten to add, but being a bachelor with a butler to do all the boring things. Mind you, if Verni Lisi walked in.

Well I'll be blessed. I've just Gooogled the lovely lady and found something on pprune that I'd forgotten I'd written. At least I'm consistent.

http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/298417-thinking-getting-married-2.html