View Full Version : DC-2 Singapore.

9th Oct 2008, 16:55
KLM's DC-2 alongside an Airfast DC-3, Seletar, 1980 ish. Why'd I post it. Nice, unique picky. :ok:


9th Oct 2008, 18:46
I'd say it was in 1984. 50th anniversary of the London-Melbourne race, DC-2 borrowed by KLM to re-enact the trip. Same DC-2 which is now with the Aviodrome in The Netherlands.

10th Oct 2008, 13:57
I was having a clear up when I found the photograph. It was indeed the KLM commemorative flight. Which reminds me - for the trip the aircraft had been equipped with a bl**dy awful general aviation Com/Nav set. It was something new from Bendix, all in one piece. It suffered badly from temperature and, since leaving the Netherlands, had regularly packed up soon after switch on. The crew asked me to take a look and there was no cooling - at all.

We had a Bell 214B in the hangar (Sultan of Oman's Air Force), which would be there for a while, and I ‘borrowed’ a heavy duty wind-screen demist blower. With some suitable ducting we soon had a gale blowing through the Bendix stuff. Result, down to Indonesia ( I don't think it went to Oz ??) and back to Amsterdam - with no further problems.

KLM was then kind enough to rush the blower back to me – when it went to its original home. (Thanks SOAF :ok:)

10th Oct 2008, 21:02
Interesting, I'm sure that that particular aspect of the flight hasn't been mentioned before!

It did go down to Oz actually, there are photos of this DC-2 next to the one that was mounted on poles at Albury. They flew the complete route.

10th Oct 2008, 23:01
Why'd I post it. Nice, unique picky

You need an excuse...! :ok:

Chris Scott
10th Oct 2008, 23:40
Great picture, forget.

One thing is puzzling me, knowing the 3 a bit. Can't see any de-icing boots on the 2. Was there any airframe de-icing on it? Surely they would have needed it originally in North America and Europe.

11th Oct 2008, 10:45
I'll call your DC-2 and raise a 2.5.


12th Oct 2008, 08:56
Ahh, yes. The DC-2.5. Now where's the aileron trim again? ;)

12th Oct 2008, 15:16
Examining early photos of DC-2s flown by KLM, Pan American, American, and TWA, I would conclude that the DC-2 did not come equipped with de-ice boots. I've seen a photo of a Delta DC-2 with boots, but the photo was taken in the early 1940s, so perhaps they were retrofitted.

12th Oct 2008, 16:11
From my understanding no DC-2 came from the factory with de-icing boots. In fact most of the early DC-3 did not have de-icing boots.

Just for fun, see how many photos of C-47s, during WWII, you can find with de-icing boots.

12th Oct 2008, 21:02
Because my lips insist on making these silly formations, I cannot say anything about the air speed. One hundred and twenty. We must not lose any more. With a load of ice this ship will cease to fly at one hundred, possibly even sooner.

What the hell is wrong with those fancy de-icer boots? They are not performing the task for which they are intended. Come! Function!
I glance furtively out the window at my side. The blinking red light indicator shows the de-icers are in operation, but outside there is visible proof that they are lying down on the job. The leading edge is now one long, unbroken bar of ice. And it is clear ice, rumpled as if there were rocks beneath.

Yes, the boots are working. But they are expanding and contracting beneath the sheath of ice and consequently useless! The ice has accumulated too fast for them.

"Get Knoxville....."

Some DC-2's had boots. ;)

12th Oct 2008, 21:28
One of the most gripping chapters from Fate is the Hunter.

Chris Scott
12th Oct 2008, 22:41
Thanks evansb and con-pilot,

I’m sure you are right. Don’t know when the pneumatic boot was invented. Perhaps it was relatively new circa-1935? Flying a civil transport IFR with no ice protection in North America or Europe in winter sounds a hairy, but I don’t remember seeing them ever in Africa.

Hi pigboat,

Have been there, on the C47. Is that Gann, by any chance? It's about 35 years since I returned Fate is the Hunter to the library, but I remember him saying that the DC3 was a revelation after the DC2 and other contemporary transports, i.e., handled much better in icing. I've only 500 hrs (P2) on Daks, in the late 'Sixties, and they had to have boots on all leading edges in the UK by then.

I guess you would tell me that the trick with boots is to pick the right moment, or you've blown it. We had levelled off the almost-empty freighter at FL80 in the tops of strato-cu. My leg. The skipper was 64, a great guy who had thousands of hours on DC3s and C47s. I proposed climbing to 100 but, by the time it became evident it would have been a good idea, the IAS had dropped from 120kts to below 100.

We used the boots as usual but, apart from a few bits that became jagged, the ice seemed to be pretty unaffected. We had no choice but to descend, as climb power was not enough to stabilize the IAS. We used the prop deicing now and again, getting a lot of noise as the bits hit the fuselage. Further cycles of the boots made no difference. The windshields rapidly iced up. There was no point in using the limited alcohol to deice them, as we had about 90 mins to destination; so they were soon completely opaque. Unfortunately, the freezing level was about 3000ft, and the bottom of the cloud was about 2000. Just as well we were over the low countries and the North Sea, because that was the altitude at which we were able eventually to level off. When a patch of clear glass appeared on the windshields, we could see a horn of ice sticking forward about six inches from the frame between the two. The ice started to un-stick from the boots.

After about another half an hour, we landed at Gatwick. On arrival at the ramp, there was still a significant amount of glaze ice on the bottom of the fuselage just behind the nose. I’ve since speculated on how we’d have got on if we’d had a 3-tonne load; like the previous leg. No doubt the Dak is fairly typical of its era: most of us are spoiled nowadays. But it seemed to handle okay. What’s the PBY like in icing?

13th Oct 2008, 02:21
Chris, that is from Fate Is The Hunter Chapter V, subtitled 'where the mind is honed and sweat is found to mix with ice.' The Captain on that flight was a guy named Hughen who had this to say about the circumstance, "If this were anything but a DC-2 we just wouldn't be in the air."

Like you, I've had a couple of experiences with clear ice in the DC-3. It's not a pleasant thing, one I would forgo any day. The PBY I flew had no boots, only prop alcohol, and during the season I spent on it we studiously avoided icing conditions. The worst icing I have ever encountered was with a Fairchild F-27, picked up on approach. After a hour in the warm hangar, chunks were still falling off the aircraft. :O

13th Oct 2008, 17:59
Some DC-2's had boots.;)

Yes, I knew some did, but I am under the impression that they were added after the aircraft left the factory. I'll do some more research.

Thanks. :ok:

18th Oct 2008, 12:42
Well I'll be! Cleaning out the garage this morning - and came across a wooden pelmet from a small window next to my house bar, Seletar, Singapore. Various stickers on it - and ............ Included the bottom one because, well, wouldn't you :p