AeroTropics Ceases Operations

[bilbert]

Aero Tropics Air Services ceased operations yesterday. RL was unable to withstand the financial losses of no income while waiting the 5 working days to overturn the AOC suspension imposed last Friday. With long weekends that meant nearly two weeks before getting to court, a fact no doubt evident to CASA when they issued the order.

The role of CASA NQ FOI's RP and MC having continued involvement in ATAS affairs while the under investigation by CASA (yeah right) for 'serious allegations relating to its NQ office' (senate report) needs to be looked at.

Torres Strait operations virtually cease. Regional Pac earlier announced it was pulling out of the Straits. School holidays finish this week. Hospital charters and medical flights stopped. The Qlink Dash 8 running nearly empty.

When will it dawn on the brain dead authorities that airline style RPT services in remote areas with class A maintenance requirements can't be supported when Charter in clapped out Bongo's with Class B maintenance is allowed to directly compete over the same routes every day.

[Jabawocky]

So with Skytrans selling off all its piston fleet and effectively out of the game, and Troppo's gone...... who is left? Hinterland (and they are down 1 as of last week) and who else to pick up the slack?

I guess Toyota and Nissan will not be discounting 4WD's up north for a while!

If Jamair is around he may be able to shed some light on the regions woes.

J:sad:

[Torres]

Or is it more a rationalisation of operators, enabling growth and reasonable return on investment in the future?

[sprocket check]

Or is it more a rationalisation of operators, enabling growth and reasonable return on investment in the future?

probably not when operator demise is externally and artificially imposed by CASA

sc

[virgindriver]

Maybe it's time to start up a Caravan RPT service around the Islands?

Maybe have an Eastern and a Western run!:}

[bilbert]

ATAS were operating Caravans in RPT !

CASA chose to suspend the AOC rather than the pilot who was involved in the incident that brought it on. Pure Politics.

[Jabawocky]

Virgindriver

That is exactly what I was thinking, if you had a couple or 3 C208B's in a pax config...(or maybe just the jump plane config:E) that would be the best all round solution.

Of course the not twin/not going crowd would disagree.

Have no idea about the economics of the idea though....:eek:

J

[enalkay]

I believe it is good news for the Boys at aerotropics,with a new operator starting hopefully next week.Fresh start and hopefully full employment if wanted by the pilots.I believe CASA has approved this as of today.Good luck to all of you at this uncertain time

[Sue Ridgepipe]

Maybe it's time to start up a Caravan RPT service around the Islands?
Great idea virgindriver!!!
They might need to clear that landing area on the beach at Badu though, it probably hasn't been used for a while.;)

[Torres]

Ah, yes. The Badu Island scenic and idylic beach front Caravan park! :} :}

"...with a new operator starting hopefully next week."

Wingz North, Coral Sea Air, Aero Tropics (did I miss any...?) - is the Phoenix to rise yet again? :confused:

[Jabawocky]

I believe it is good news for the Boys at aerotropics,with a new operator starting hopefully next week.Fresh start and hopefully full employment if wanted by the pilots.I believe CASA has approved this as of today.Good luck to all of you at this uncertain time


Maybe I am too cynical............. but does this comment suggest something corrupt is going on??? Or is it just good and coincidental???

J:hmm:

[bizzybody]

let me guess all the aircraft regos that will be used or at least most of them. First post and all.

[virgindriver]

They might need to clear that landing area on the beach at Badu though, it probably hasn't been used for a while

Maybe while they are at it- the overrun at Murray could use some clearing...

[bilbert]

Nah couldn't be corruption. It only took two days to get approval for another operator. It only took 30 days for CASA to issue Check approval to the new CP so he could get on with fixing the company. Oh yeh they suspended the AOC 2 days later citing shortcomings in the training, supervision and skills of pilots. Nah couldn't possibly be corruption!

[av8trflying]

The latest i heard was that Barrier Aviation is taking over.

[Socket]

UZU, Cape York Air.

[Front Left]

Isn't Barrier Aviation owned by an ex CASA FOI? Hasn't said ex FOI had several other company's go broke? Who remembers Cairns Jet Centre?

Interesting!!!

[Jabawocky]

Geeee if thats the case, it should be a 4Corners story.

GA in FNQ is quite a thing!

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Front Left,

You are going to make enemies on pprune quick smart trying to trash this man, I have worked for him in the past, as have many many others here, he is a very capable pilot and the most honest businessman I have ever dealt with.

Let me assure you no persons identity on PPRUNE is secret, refer Mr Smith V's TACAN400, tread carefully.

Wish there were more like him in our industry.

Joshua Cox
0428 241 105

[404 Titan]

Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower

There are also others on here who would strongly disagree with you. I spent enough years in FNQ to know exactly which camp I belong to concerning said person. As for his abilities as a pilot, you won’t get an argument from me.

[Jabawocky]

LRT

you seem to know a bit, how does the AOC get done so quick? Sure BA seem to have the equipment and are reputable, but even with that how does it get through in days. Some folk take months or more. Had they been on the process of getting it for a long time and the timing was fortunate, like VB when AN fell over.

J

[equal]

i heard west wing.

[virgindriver]

yeah coco you forgot UZU . . . Or did you forget.


Well, Uzu probably had the right idea a few years ago but it was pretty hard to compete with all the other "shared charter" operators. The general pax weren't the most reliable either.

[Torres]

yeah coco you forgot UZU . . . Or did you forget.

Nope, didn't forget at all. :ok:

I was referring solely to that series of recurring air charter operators which were either genetically or incestuously related.......... :}

[bilbert]

Its not BA. CAO 82.0 para 3. requires approval. Still sitting on some CASA desk somewhere. They're determined not to give RL a break by allowing leasing of a/c. Nah Its not corruption, just a vendetta bordering on insanity.

[equal]

so what's the federal court's stance on it this time? have they even gone to court?

[bilbert]

Suspension was issued late on a friday. Standard tactic. 5 working days to get to court. With a public holiday - that's next tuesday. 12 days flying lost

[bilbert]

More rumours. Qld Governement considering state of emergency. Some islands without water, telephones, health services. Kids can't get back to school. Aircraft reported doing 'Private' flights in the area moving the general public. Gives you a warm fuzzy feeling to know that the regulator is doing its job eh!.

[Dave Incognito]

Hey Bala,

isn't water usually brought in by the sea swift barge?

Yawal...

[Chuck_YeagerBomb]

its very unfortunate (for the travelling pax) that last time troppos had their aoc suspended was the last school holidays and now again for these school holidays (some of the busiest days of the year).
now with Regional Pacific finishing up operations in the straits as of today it looks like Cape Air Transport (minus an awall PN68) and Barrier to pick up the slack.....busy times ahead

[Unhinged]

give RL a break

10 litres more or 10 litres less fuel in that aircraft on Warraber two weeks ago and we wouldn't be talking about giving anyone a break. We'd have been picking up bits of broken aircraft and people out of the water.

[av8trflying]

Excuse my ignorance unhinged but how is that RL's fault.Sounds to me the PIC should be dipping a little more.

[Socket]

I'd be interested to know how a new AOC can be issued so fast, usually takes months. Then there is the task of upgrading aircraft to RPT standard, requires a new M/R issue and getting each aircraft individually added to AOC, time consuming too.

[B200MAN]

Nicely said LRT.
To many clowns get on here and act as an expert and just bag operaters that they have not worked for.
Half these people need to get a life and think about there own flying or operator abilitys before bagging others otherwise we will be reading posts about them.

[Unhinged]

but how is that RL's fault.Sounds to me the PIC should be dipping a little more.

The frequency of dipping the tanks is a function of the pilot and the company culture; and the company culture is a function of the management's attitude. Any working GA pilot knows the pressures that the company brings to bear - I've worked in operations where the pressure was to follow the rules, wash the aircraft, and have complete planning; and I've worked in others where the pressure was to overload, go min fuel at every opportunity, and never write anything up.

If companies have a culture of pilots following the rules, then there's enormous group pressure for them to do so. If not, then anything can happen, and usually does.

[av8trflying]

Unhinged

Understand where you are coming from in regards to pressure being brought to bear.

But at the end of the day, it is YOUR responsibility.

I dont know the facts of the company, but, bag the company if they do these things, i have no problem with that and should be reported as such - thats what confidential reporting is for.

But if you are stupid enough to take off without enough fuel when it is a two second check, more fool you. Your the one who is dead, not the CEO.

[Alice Kiwican]

Correct me if I'm wrong but haven't Westwing been operating Troppo's Shrikes (possibly leasing them?) out of Troppo's Cns office on the mail runs since July? Maybe that is when the AOC application process started? Westwing B200's have been parked near the Troppo's office over the last couple of months as well.

[Unusual-Attitude]

Two words...Curry Kenny...you heard it here first! :E

[Alice Kiwican]

According to Cairns Post today Unusual-Attitude is correct! Apparently CASA to approve things on Monday for SlingAir to come in and operate Troppo's aircraft on Troppo's routes using Slingair pilots. Not sure how accurate that is I guess all will be revealed early next week!

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

I had my money on West Wing taking over the reins, good luck to Sling Air.

[Unusual-Attitude]

I wonder if the now 'ex-tropos' van drivers will be 'exchanging shirts' as RL predicted, hope so for their sakes.

[werbil]

I wonder if the CP will get to wear his old shirt too.

[actionstar]

yeah, housemate works for aerotropics, and was working today and said the "apparent" new owners were walking around and the shed was locked down... meeting scheduled for monday morning to let everyone within ATAS know whats going on...

also, the infomation I have regarding the fuel incidents were due to pilot switching the fuel off in one instance and selecting the wrong tank in the other instance... not low/no fuel in either case..pilot muckup hence corrupt casa going after there check training procedures...

[EMB120ER]

Is'nt Slingair part of the Kurry Kenny group?

[Frank Burden]

Owned by Kerry and Pat Slingsby, Slingair Heliwork WA is Western Australia's largest privately owned aviation company with a fleet of over 50 aircraft. So, no matter where you want to go in the Kimberley – they have the ability to get you there. :)

[enalkay]

Wrong. Pilot at YWBS miscalculated fuel and did not dip tanks b4 leaving YHID.The other incident had nothing to do with what you are on about.The engine failed and was subsequently replaced 2 days later.Pilot in first incident at YWBS was terminated.You don`t know what you are talking about best idea for you mind your own business!!!

[actionstar]

why are they both considered "pilot related" incidents then if the engine failed?? where do you get your info??

[Socket]

Wrong, sold to Curry-Kenny.

[Unusual-Attitude]

Told you all this days ago! :ugh:

[bilbert]

You're all wrong. Lip Air went into voluntary receivership on Sat. 50 'innocent' employees with kids and mortgages all terminated. All because of an insane vendetta by certain CASA persons with personal agendas to get RL.
Why are they allowed to regulate in the area they previously had commercial ties in? It's guaranteed to create a conflict of interest.
CASA refused to 'approve' anyone to take over the aircraft or pilots from the suspended AOC holder. Read CAO 82.0 para 3 and get an appreciation of the economic power over operators, these people have.
Good luck to the ex employees and to the people of the Torres Straits.

[Unusual-Attitude]

Oh man...that really does suck for the guys. Thought they'd be maybe getting re-employed by incoming operator. Yeah, second Bilbert...good luck dudes...you'll be right. :sad:

[Socket]

Seems the application to wind up went in a month ago, two months after getting the previous suspension lifted by the courts. Looks like the decision to close up was made and the machinary put in motion long before the latest action from CASA. I wonder if his staff was aware he had done this.:confused:

From the ASIC website:

Extracted from ASIC's database at AEST 16:50:01 on 13/10/2008NameLIP-AIR PTY. LIMITEDACN068 117 537ABN88 068 117 537TypeAustralian Proprietary Company, Limited By SharesRegistration Date07/02/1995Next Review Date07/02/2009Status** UNDER EXTERNAL ADMINISTRATION and/or CONTROLLER APPOINTED **Locality of Registered OfficeAeroglen QLD 4870JurisdictionAustralian Securities & Investments Commissionhttp://www.search.asic.gov.au/_images/hr.gif
These are the documents that ASIC has most recently received from or in relation to this organisation. Page numbers are shown if processing is complete and the document is available for purchase. DateNumberPagesDescription11/10/20087E18495872505U Notification of Appt of Administrator Under S.436a, 436b,436c, 436e(4), 449b, 449c(1), 449c(4) or 449(6)08/09/20080248839253519G Notification of Application to Wind Up Company Under S.459p, 462 or 46401/09/2008024507922Not Imaged519D Notification of Making of Winding Up Order


ASIC Free Company Name Search (http://www.search.asic.gov.au/cgi-bin/gns030c?acn=068_117_537&juris=9&hdtext=ACN&srchsrc=1)

[Air Ace]

Looks like the decision was made almost two weeks ago. And it does not appear that decision was voluntary? :confused:

COMPANIES ACT 1981 (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/num_act/ca1981107/) S.459p, 462 or 464 - interesting?

Did the company advise the staff, two weeks ago, that there were problems? :=

Whatever the story, it is all over. I trust the staff secure their entitlements, history indicates otherwise, and are able to move on in their careers.

[werbil]

Socket,

An application to wind up a company is usually made by a creditor chasing $$$$. This is what occurred over a month ago - it is not a decision by the company to close up.

Appointment of an administrator occurred on the 11th of this month, over a week after the second suspension. This is sign of problems.

I don't know of many private companies that have the capital behind them to keep operating for any period with no income and the high standing costs of aviation.

W

[Air Ace]

"This is what occurred over a month ago..."

And the Board did not take a responsible decision to preserve any remaining equity to the benefit of the staff and creditors?

Or did the company trade insolvent? :confused:

[werbil]

Air Ace,

Try the right act - CORPORATIONS ACT 2001 NO. 50, 2001 (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/num_act/ca2001172/)

The sections of the act referred to by the documents lodged suggest it is volunatry administration by the company.

[bilbert]

Voluntary receivership was obviously the only way to get the aircraft fleet out of the the CAO 82.0 para 3 block applied by CASA. No safety issue here.

[Waghi Warrior]

CASA in FNQ, this has happened before. CASA Officers having personal interests in GA companies, anyone remember the Falcon Airlines case back in the mid 90's ?

Not to sure what happens else where around Australia, but CASA in FNQ have had a history of this type of practice for over a decade now.

I really think CASA have a lot to answer for if this is indeed the case, as it's simply not fair.

[Front Left]

Exactly Waghi Warrior. But careful, you will upset Lefthander Rock Thrower with those comments. :=

[enalkay]

:cool:well you should see the videos the passenger took at Warraber on the day of the incident,from loading to taxi to the failed takeoff attempt to the draining of the fuel from one a/c to another.Whoever the passenger was she certainly knew how to take a damning video.Oh she was on board the aforementioned a/c.Let us see where this takes this sad saga.

[Socket]

What's the latest on this, has RL taken CASA on in court yet? Is it all over for the company?

PS; Would love to see that video.

[Alice Kiwican]

Troppo's has gone into administration. It was all over a couple of weeks ago. 1st creditors meeting apparently happened last Wed 22nd Oct. I believe that they have a couple of Bongo's, Pn68 & C208 still up on Horn Island as CASA did not allow them to be flown back to CNS! A few of the drivers were picked up by Westwing but not sure if all the boys and girls have found new jobs. Good luck to all going through the creditors process hope you all get what you are owed!

[Jabawocky]

Alice, that would be a false hope. Once in administration and usually due to no large cash reserves the lawyers and accountans feast on the carcass, and creditors are usually best to cut their losses and only waste money on faxing a POD, just in case they get 2 cents in the dollar.

Sad but true.

J

[tiger19]

I really don't know how companies would of let Troppos build up such a debt?? I flew for troppos a few years ago and I can remember on frequent occasions the refueller telling me that if the bill isn't paid by "4pm this arvo" no more gas!! Use to hear similiar stories from other suppliers heaps on CNS airport back then. they were always borrowing from peter to pay paul. Good luck to all involved.

[Gateway Customer]

You been thrown out cause you are a Wonghai customer.
No more drinks to you till you pay your bill

GC

[Kubin rock climber]

Hey You No Gateway Customer!!!!

[Unusual-Attitude]

Wongai wednesday will be very quiet nowdays i recon! :sad:

[Socket]

I just love this quote from their website regarding maintenance:

Quote:

We have seen the addition of a Cairns-based Maintenance division to our company as it was difficult to achieve the maintenance standards that we demanded from contracted organisations.

As I recall, and I was there, the only reason they started up their own maintenance was NO ONE would touch their aircraft anymore. They had run up bills of hundreds of thousands to just about everyone in Cairns. Was told CYA was owed over $200,000 when they refused to do any more work.

RL's standards (that couldnt be achieved) amounted to " give us free maintenance while we compete with you", sadly a lot of people let him get away with it. For that ass to denigrate the maintenance organisations that kept him flying while he was ripping them off just shows the measure of the man. Good ridance to him, sad for his employees.

[LFandH]

Bubba, Johnny,,,,,, Ssssshhhhhhh

[usernamesarebunk]

The latest news is that talks continue between the various stakeholders. RL was confident that a deal had been done last Thursday, but it failed to materialise.

He states that there two parties interesting in taking over operations, but declines to identify whom.

However, with the loss of virtually the entire Troppo's workforce any new company would need to recruit heavily.

On other matters, the local council is currently in the process of preliminary investigation works to extend and strengthening the main runway (08-26). At a cost of $2.2m, construction is anticipated to commence after the next wet season.

(courtesy of the Torres News)

[travelator]

The big house has been up for sale for some time. My parents were visiting that part of the world in July and bought back a copy of the
Torres News and I saw an ad for the big housse. Intersting to see what it sells for (if it sells)

[Captain Starlight]

Torres RPT to recommence mid November ?

Rumour has it that some pilots have been contacted to restart mid November, and engineering staff retained.

The P68 (that started A/T) departed HID on Thursday heading south, heard that a van will be heading north to join the other one still at HID. 2 islanders to be retained, other piston fleet to be sold off.

Sounds like 2 x vans and 2 x BN2's to conduct scheduled "service flights". (BN2's needed for Mabuiag, cant fit grand Van in and out of MAA).

A former A/T employee who specialises in travel and shared charter has spent a lot of time in TI and HID recently and has just opened a TI travel office. more info on Torres News website.

Westwing and Slingair are likely starters if A/T doesn't come back with interposed 3rd party travel agent / legitimate pseudo RPT.

[Gateway Customer]

If anyone gets some photos of the Wall at the Troppoz big house, could you pm me.
Been a while and would like to see if we are all still there

[Unusual-Attitude]

It is my very sad duty to inform any interested parties that the 'big wall' has in fact been removed from the house. (Now rented). Sorry to be the bearer of unfortunate news! :sad:

[usernamesarebunk]

RL's "last ditch effort" to get Troppo's off the ground again will entail:

-employing only about one quater of the previous staff level
-focusing exclusively on the RPT flights in the Strait (i.e no operations out of Cairns)
-Less aircraft, most likely only 3 Caravans
-Providing a schedule similar to that in operation prior to October 3.

On other news, Outie street is up for sale (the lucky numbers being 3,5,29,33,35,37)!

(courtesy of the Torres News)

[Alice Kiwican]

How does a company so far in debt and in administration get enough funds to obtain a 3rd Caravan? I'm no expert in this type of thing but it seems to me to be a pipe dream!
Good luck to anyone who wants to take on this operation!

[bizzybody]

how does a company in so much debt with so many creditors (i have the minutes of the creditors meeting) managed to get approved this new proposal past the creditors????

[Unusual-Attitude]

Latest.

Vendetta claims as Aero-Tropics' bid to resume flying set to fail.

Aero-Tropics almost certainly has failed in it's bid to provide an air service in the Torres Strait, amid claims of a vendetta against his family, former CEO Ric Lippmann says.

Mr Lippmann has told the Torres News that CASA has advised the administrator handling the company's affairs that CASA is unlikely to approve any application from a company which involves "the Lippmanns"

Courtesy of the Torres News.

[bilbert]

From the Torres News - A spokesman from CASA told the Torres News on the weekend that the agency is doing 'everything possible' to restore an air service to the Torres Straits. A mite credibility challenged I would have to suggest. Excuse me while I throw up.

[Justin Grogan]

Bruce Byron and PPrune cleaned up CASA FNQ didnt they? :confused:

[usernamesarebunk]

For that ass to denigrate the maintenance organisations that kept him flying while he was ripping them off just shows the measure of the man.

Yes, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when I saw Lip-Air Maintenance in the list of creditors...

[Pilot58]

So lipmann's latest venture flightech has been shut by CASA in Cairns and has been re opened by his side kick dodgy de&n. How do these guys keep re opening ?

[Nose wheel first]

I know I shouldn't feed the troll but I feel compelled to in this case.

Pilot58, your somewhat bitter and twisted rants against Flightech and now the CP of East Air are likely to get you in hot water. Please do yourself and everyone else a favour and go back to playing "Airline Tycoon" on your ipad. If you have safety or compliance related issues with East Air i'm sure Dean would be happy to hear from you so he can assess your issues and take corrective action if necessary. I have known Dean for a number of years now and dodgy is not a tag that fits him at all. And (I know, you shouldn't start a sentence with a conjunction but i'm going to anyway) no, I don't nor have I ever worked for him.

Seriously, either put your money where your mouth is and call Dean to express your concerns or ignore all things East Air/Flightech. You're going to give yourself a stress related ulcer!

EDIT: Pilot58, if you are indeed in NZ and therefore far removed from the Cairns aviation scene, i'd suggest getting yourself a better source of information. Your current one is letting you down badly!

[Pilot58]

Is safety related item like flying shrikes with cracked/broken spars not that major these days?anyone that has followed these guys throughout all of their movements know de&n is just RL puppet

[Tidbinbilla]

There you go again :ugh:

[Nose wheel first]

Pilot58, I have written several responses to your last post and deleted all of them before posting because it is quite clear that you only have partial information and you're not interested in checking its veracity or finding out the whole story. To continue replying to you is only going to prolong what is becoming a rather painful experience.

I suggest you phone Dean (i'm sure he would love to hear from you and would likely provide you with a phone number if you don't already have it :}) and discuss your concerns. He is a very approachable guy and i'm certain he would clear up a number of your misconceptions. I can also assure you he is not RL's puppet. For you to suggest that means that you haven't anyone that has followed these guys throughout all of their movements know de&n is just RL puppet really been following East Air or Dean at all.

Failing a conversation with Dean might I suggest you call CASA. (probably no need as they read proon anyway) You are alleging some pretty serious maintenance and safety concerns. When you call you may just find that they have it all in hand. That might not suite you though as you'd have nothing left to get upset about.:ugh::ugh:

[justinga]

Pilot58, I have written several responses to your last post and deleted all of them before posting because it is quite clear that you only have partial information and you're not interested in checking its veracity or finding out the whole story. To continue replying to you is only going to prolong what is becoming a rather painful experience.

I suggest you phone Dean (i'm sure he would love to hear from you and would likely provide you with a phone number if you don't already have it :}) and discuss your concerns. He is a very approachable guy and i'm certain he would clear up a number of your misconceptions. I can also assure you he is not RL's puppet. For you to suggest that means that you haven't really been following East Air or Dean at all.

Failing a conversation with Dean might I suggest you call CASA. (probably no need as they read proon anyway) You are alleging some pretty serious maintenance and safety concerns. When you call you may just find that they have it all in hand. That might not suite you though as you'd have nothing left to get upset about.:ugh::ugh:

Pilot58 Just out of interest how can you comment on what Lippy and Dean are like to work for when you clearly state you have never worked for them?
Personal perceptions of somebody's values are one thing, economic decisions made on a hanger floor between two people are another thing.

[tail wheel]

Pilot58 Just out of interest how can you comment on what Lippy and Dean are like to work for when you clearly state you have never worked for them?

You're wasting electrons. Pilot58 is no longer part of this discussion. :E

Any comments fallaciously or maliciously suggesting any PPRuNe Moderator represents or is influenced by any personal interest will result in the comment(s) removed and restricted user PPRuNe site, forum of thread access.

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