B-36 over Manchester late 1950s [Archive]

mephisto

7th Oct 2008, 19:57

Burtonwood in news today as proposed site for new 'super prison' which prompts me to make this post.

As a ten or eleven year old around 1957 I lived in Rusholme, just a couple of miles south of Manchester city centre. I remember one evening, not too late, when people all around were brought out of their houses by the tremendous earth-shaking rumbling of a huge aircraft which was circling continuously for what seemed an age. There was very low cloud at the time which probably amplified the noise but on a couple of occasions the huge silhouette of a Convair B-36 could be made out and , Boy, was it low! The intrusion by this behemoth with its six pusher piston engines was treated as a major incident by the press and people were talking about it for weeks.

Can anyone throw light on this? Was it simply hopelessly lost, burning fuel or some Yank's idea of a joke by deliberately frightening the life out of the good citizens of Manchester?

Dr Illitout

10th Oct 2008, 10:25

My Mother-in -law tells the same tail. She was moving into her new home in Ashton-on-Mersey and remembers "three large aeroplanes with propellers on the back of the wings" flying over the house. She said that they were flying into Burtonwood. I am sure if I asked her she would remember the exact date, proberbly the time, wind direction, cloud base, what was playing on the radio etc, etc!

Rgds Dr I

ANW

10th Oct 2008, 11:42

Remember the occasion too

If I can find the article I will copy over, but looking for a needle in a hay stack suggests I won't find. Brushing the cobwebs aside, I think the occasion had something to do with the Korean War and the USAF were moving part of their bomber fleet a bit closer to the target area. The article, as I recall, listed all the relevant B36 tail serial numbers. Might have been 10+ aircraft in total. What a sound!

mephisto

10th Oct 2008, 12:28

For over fifty years I've assumed it was one B 36 circling over Manchester that evening. ANW's mention of several aircraft offers a more feasible explanation. They would have been spaced at short intervals flying east just 20/25 miles from takeoff before setting up a formation at altitude.

You can hear a sound clip here :-

B-36 Sound (http://www.cowtown.net/proweb/b36_sound.htm)

There is plenty of stuff on You Tube which includes that incredible noise.

chiglet

10th Oct 2008, 15:05

When I worked at Preston Radar in the early '70s, I was told a tale of a B36 that wanted to land at Burtonwood. Unfortuneately, it was dark, and the a/c Captain could only land in daylight, so he was asked to "hold". The night watch went home, but forgot to hand over the holding B36. At about 10am, a plaintive voice came over the RT to ask if he could land yet? Apparently he was low on fuel....3 hour endurance left...:ok:
watp,iktch

Mr_Grubby

10th Oct 2008, 15:33

chiglet

When I worked at Northern Radar back in '76 on my watch was an old boy called Eric Davies. He had been a D man at Preston and told me the same story.

Clint.

chevvron

10th Oct 2008, 18:40

I lived near Bovingdon as a child. I the early '50s (52 or 53-I would have been about 4 years old) there was always a plethora of types in and out, both RAF and USAF. One day I saw this big aircraft with 6 engines on the back of the wings. I ran indoors and told my elder brother who had just joined the ATC. He hit me because he said I was lying!! Looking back I doubt if it actually landed at Bovingdon but it was certainly low over Chesham.

Warmtoast

10th Oct 2008, 19:42

B-36

Impressive aircraft, only saw one a couple of times when I was very much younger, but it made a lasting impression.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Strategic%20Air%20Command%20Film/StrategicAirComand8.jpg

wiccan

10th Oct 2008, 22:14

I remember once at my aunts [in Hyde] I heard a terriffic noise, looked around and there was a KB29...[looked like a B29, not KC97] re-fuelling 3 F84Gs...:ok:, this was about 1957ish
bb

con-pilot

11th Oct 2008, 00:32

My father flew the B-36 and as a young child I crawled all over them. We were based at Carswell AFB in Fort Worth, Texas. To this day I could still tell if a B-36 flew over me, not that one ever will again of course, because no other aircraft in the world made the noise that a B-36 made.

I am rather confused about the 'not landing at night' statement, as I remember being at Base Ops with my mother and watching my father come home from overseas assignments and land at night more than a few times.

Perhaps it was an inferior British airfield? :p

(Just kidding. ;))

On a personal note. Nearly all of my father's photos were lost when the massive level 5 tornado destroyed my mother's home in March of 1999 in Oklahoma City. I'm talking about pictures from World War II, the Berlin Airlift, the Korean War, the non-war years (the B-36 and others) and Viet Nam. Damn shame really.

Okay, to lighten up the mood. When I received my Boeing 727 type rating I called my father to tell him about my major accomplishment. He laughed and said, "Well hell boy, you still have never pushed up ten throttles for takeoff and you never will."

I immediately replied, "Well hell, neither have you. You had two flight engineers sitting behind you in that thing handling the throttles for you."

"Just a minor technicality my boy, just a minor technicality." He replied.

:ok:

(By the way, I did meet Jimmy Stewart, more than once.)

Brian Abraham

11th Oct 2008, 01:02

You might want to rush out and get the DVD "Strategic Air Command" starring Jimmy Stewart, and of course the mighty B-36, in fact I should do that myself. Made a great impression on this 12 year old when it came out.

con-pilot

11th Oct 2008, 02:30

I do have it Brian, trust me. My father flew quite a bit in that movie, mostly for the background shots.

I believe that Jimmy Stewart was a Colonel back when the movie was made and he was in the 'O' Club quite a bit while they were filming at Carswell. I can also remember my mother and her friends being all excited about meeting June Allison. My mother always said that Jimmy Stewart and June Allison were proper 'movie stars', not the rabble of today's time. :)

Krystal n chips

11th Oct 2008, 06:04

I don't recall the flight in question, but I do remember the "hearts and minds" operation around the same time in which the cousins flew a Sqdn of B29's around the North West...solid cloud on the day...well more or less....so only the odd glimpse of them over Altrincham.....also recall a Scimitar doing a couple of low level orbits one day for reasons that were never apparent.

Burtonwood as a prison eh ?.......equidistant from Manchester and Liverpool I suppose so convenient for visiting.;)

Burtonwood has it's own place in my (limited) aviation history....Aug 24 1968 and Krystal went on his first solo foray there in a Cadet Mk 3.....and managed to miss the "rather long runway" completely on his second solo...thus setting the trend for years to come.

aviate1138

11th Oct 2008, 07:05

There was a B-36 that landed near Boscombe Down, actually on the wrong side [about a mile short?] of the Salisbury/Amesbury main road, in an adjacent farmer's field! After some landscaping/fence bashing I think the B-36 was towed up the slope and onto RAF Boscombe Down ground! I think "Aeroplane" or "Flypast" had an article on it some years ago. Strong machines with strong undercarriages! I think a hard frost/snow cover helped.

JEM60

11th Oct 2008, 08:01

It is, perhaps, not generally known, that Wng Cmndr Ken Wallis, yes, he of autogyro fame, spent some time flying B.36s on secondment to SAC. Spent a lovely afternoon in conversation with him when he opened our village fete 18 months ago. Tales of 24 hour misssions in these aircraft, constant engine failures etc. Top man.Saw only one '36 myself. VERY strange noise. Nothing like it.

NutherA2

11th Oct 2008, 08:54

Using the gun sight fitted in the Hunter required the wingspan of the target aircraft to be set, so as to enable accurate ranging/deflection during the “attack”. During bomber affiliation exercises, if the target was the Convair “Aluminum Overcast”, however, a major drawback was that the gun sight range scale did not go up as far as 230 feet; IIRC the solution was to set 70 feet and range on the tailplane. :cool:

Brian Abraham

11th Oct 2008, 10:02

Absolutely and totally off thread. Con, the mere mention of June Allison takes me back as well, any movie she was in was a good movie for this love struck teenager, that husky voice. I wont go on. ;)

Brewster Buffalo

11th Oct 2008, 14:50

In 18 October 1956 eleven B-36 bombers of the 11th Bomber Wing spent a week at Burtonwood. One had engine trouble at night and had to circle for many hours to burn off fuel keeping most of West Lancashire awake.

MReyn24050

12th Oct 2008, 19:50

aviate1138

13th Oct 2008, 06:22

Thanks Mel. That's the one! :)

Looking at the pic it seems likely the move was made using the B-36 engines and not being towed. Lots of melted snow in the background. I presume that is the A345 Salisbury/Amesbury road? Or maybe the Winterslow road?

BEagle

13th Oct 2008, 06:29

Rumour has it that the aircraft commander had been personally demoted by Curtiss LeMay by the time he made it to the RAF Boscombe Down Officers' Mess to answer a call from LeMay....

MReyn24050

13th Oct 2008, 13:58

Aviate1138 wrote:- I presume that is the A345 Salisbury/Amesbury road?
Yes it was the A345.
Mel

con-pilot

13th Oct 2008, 17:54

Rumour has it that the aircraft commander had been personally demoted by Curtiss LeMay by the time he made it to the RAF Boscombe Down Officers' Mess to answer a call from LeMay....

Le May had a firm control over all of SAC. Most officers, including my father, held 'brevet' ranks given to them by Le May. Le May could promote someone on the spot, or demote them on the spot. No court-martial, no review board limited paperwork. There was an infamous case of where a Lt. Colonel, who had been a rising star, upset Le May over something, was reduced to a First Lieutenant and was tranfered out of SAC overnight.

avante482

13th Oct 2008, 19:43

I was at school in Ashton-on-Mersey doing metalwork in the machine shop and spotted said 'planes going into Burtonwood. Called over my mate Frank (fellow spotter) and we both spent the rest of the lesson as close as possible to the window watching them going in.:ok:

Dick Whittingham

13th Oct 2008, 20:50

Sometime in the '50s, would be 55 plus or minus one, I was vectored on to a small formation of B36s heading west over the Midlands at medium altitude. I did a quarter attack, ranging on the tail as recommended, but from line astern the vortices flipped me out and I never caught up again - in a Vampire FB5.

Dick W

DILLIGAFF

14th Oct 2008, 00:47

A 'small' formation of B36s can there be such a thing?
D

glhcarl

14th Oct 2008, 02:23

In the summer of 1956 I was playing in my backyard in Palmdale California, when I heard something strange. With all the test flying done out of Palmdale and Edwards seeing and hearing aircraft was not unusual. But this sound was different, it was a low drone that got louded and louder but I could not see a thing. After about 10 minutes I see three B-36 in formation, they must have been at 30,000 feet. The entire time they were visible, about fifteen minutes, the ground vibrated and after they were out of sight I could still hear that drone for another ten minutes. Over fifty years later and I can still picture those three B-36's in close formation fantastic sight.

411A

14th Oct 2008, 03:44

Likewise, where I grew up, in Santa Monica, the home of Douglas Aircraft.
The very distinctive noise heard, from B-36's at high altitude was...the propellor 'beat' noise, not engine noise.
Those very large (19 foot diameter) CurtisElectric propellors had a very distinctive sound, due largely to them being aft of the wing.
Once heard, the sound was never forgotten.
The ground vibrated for quite a long time.

Along about 1955, the 'featherweight' mod was commenced.
Selected aircraft, stripped on much of their usual 'accomodations' could fly, and bomb, from fifty thousand feet, at 410 knots TAS, thanks to the 4 jet engines.
No Soviet fighter could, at the time, reach these altitudes, effectively.
According to my neighbor, who is a USAF Colonel (retired, and flew B-36's for a long time), the Russians were, as he put it, sh!t-scared of this featherweight modded aircraft, as there was no way they could prevent its appearance over any target in the country.

The B-36 had a huge magnesium content in the structure, which provided for rather large corrosion problems.
Big time.

A couple of videos for your enjoyment.

YouTube - 1956 Featherweight B-36 Reaches New Heights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oSG1TmbAB0)
YouTube - B-36 Bombers visit England (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3AG-JsjoyA&NR=1)

The B-36, once seen or heard, never forgotton.

treadigraph

14th Oct 2008, 06:45

Cor, good clips 411a, thanks. A crew of 15, blimey what did they all do? Presume there was some doubling up to allow for rest periods on extended missions.

Loved the line in the first clip about "cruising in the troposphere, where it can be neither seen nor heard". Hmmm, from what's being said by those who have heard one I would have thought they'd still have been easily audible from 50,000!

(Bit like the Met Police's EC145s on Skycops or whatever it's called: "The criminals don't know the helicopter is circling them" says the narrator. Wanna bet? I know it's circling them and I'm five bloody miles away...)

A type I have never seen - must get me over the US again soon and visit Dayton.

Fareastdriver

14th Oct 2008, 09:10

I used to go to SAC HQ at Offutt, Nebraska, quite often in the early sixties. They were trying to start up a SAC museum and they had a collection of, IIRC, a B26, B17, B29 and a B36 that they wanted to keep airworthy. Le May wasn't happy as he regarded it as a waste of effort. "There are no free lunches in SAC" was his view.
The way they got around him was to give the B36 a war target so if WW III broke out the B36 would fly somewhere to be bombed up and obliterate some city.

Warmtoast

15th Oct 2008, 16:20

A crew of 15, blimey what did they all do?

Well the B-36 Flight Engineers earned their pay in those days.
Here's the B-36 F/E's engine panel - 12-across x 5-down, that's 60 dials at least to watch and that's not counting to ones off to the right.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Strategic%20Air%20Command%20Film/B-36FlightEngineer2.jpg

Those very large (19 foot diameter) CurtisElectric propellors had a very distinctive sound, due largely to them being aft of the wing

Like these:

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Strategic%20Air%20Command%20Film/B-36EngineStart.jpg

Dr Illitout

15th Oct 2008, 17:41

Right!
I spoke to Mum-in-law an hour ago. She said that she saw the "Big aeroplanes with the engines at the back" in October 1956 on a wednesday. She couldn't be more specific than that. Oh she didn't have the radio on at the time!
By the way, is Stratigic Air Command out on DVD in the UK?

Rgds Dr I

AvroLincoln

15th Oct 2008, 21:35

Yes, I have that film here in Sweden, sent over by a friend from the UK.
I remember first seeing it in the cinema in Lincoln and watched it twice (you could do that in those days by just remaining in your seat)!

JEM60

16th Oct 2008, 06:31

The trouble with seeing it at Dayton is that it is so long, wide, etc., that it has other displays under it's wings which rather takes it's 'size effect' away. Nevertheless, hugely impressive, as was the other on my must see list, the XB70, also with aircraft underneath it.

Warmtoast

16th Oct 2008, 09:42

Dr I

By the way, is Stratigic Air Command out on DVD in the UK?

I don't think it was officially sold on DVD. Amazon.com in the States sell the VHS version. However, there are several DVD versions on offer on e-Bay, but would assume these are DVD copies of the VHS version.

It was broadcast on TV in the UK about two years ago and I recorded it to my TV DVD recorder and then burnt it to DVD from that.

Fareastdriver

16th Oct 2008, 10:10

I used to go to SAC HQ at Offut in the early sixties and they were in the process of establishing a bomber museum. They had a B26, B17, B29 and a B36 that they wanted to be kept airworthy. Le May wouldn't give his approval to this on the basis of 'there are no free lunches in SAC.'
They got around it by giving the B36 a war target so if WWIII broke out the B36 would go off somewhere to be bombed up and obliterate some city.

Riverboat

19th Oct 2008, 12:15

People use the word "awesome" for just about everything these days, viz "I just had an awesome fish and chips." But the B-36 was awesome as far as I was concerned as a young boy who would see them flying overhead at maybe 15,000 ft every month or two, and once at low level (2000ft?) circling over the town - no doubt lost!

Always identifiable by the noise they made. This aircraft was REALLY awesome, and this thread is very evocative!

allyn

19th Oct 2008, 13:40

A fascinating plane.

I got the chance to see a static RB-36 at the Castle Air Museum in California (.: Castle Air Museum - Atwater, California :. (http://www.elite.net/castle-air/convair_rb36h.html)) one year and it's HUGE. It's somehow a different type of "HUGE" from say, a 747 or an A380...I guess it's because it represents the last of the heavy recip bombers and the ultimate expression of late 40's aviation technology...like a battleship -- obsolete but still very impressive.

If you're curious about the B36, there are a couple of good websites I've run across. The first is a collection of links to most (all?) things related to the B36:

www.B-36.net (http://www.cowtown.net/proweb/b36net/)

Buried amongst the links is a website forum that has some interesting articles:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/B36forum

The forum interface is a little confusing but there are some fascinating discussions on there if you dig around....

Finally, here is a video of a Pratt & Whitney R4360 (the model of engine powering the the B36) idling with a test club:

YouTube - Pratt and Whitney R-4360 - Run October 2, 2008 Penngrove, CA (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3gQ_HlxG23s)

kenparry

22nd Oct 2008, 14:27

Back to the original post - I was at school in Rusholme in the 50s, and we used to see B-36s from time to time on approach to Burtonwood. They would pass close to overhead, probably around 2000ft, and I remember the sound even now. The teachers would be drowned out for quite a while..........

That specific incident I don't recall, but it could not have been related to the Korean war, which finished some years before - the armistice was in 1953.
Perhaps a reinforcement exercise? The B-47 deployments to UK started soon after, in early 1957, though Burtonwood was not used for that.

Brewster Buffalo

25th Oct 2008, 09:22

B-36 wing deployment to Burtonwood was unusual the normal bases used for the 90 day rotations were Fairford or Brize Norton. The 11th bomber wing's stay at Burtonwood was only for a week..

philbky

19th Nov 2008, 15:14

http://64.233.183.132/search?q=cache:UmymtdEW0qEJ:www.cbi-history.com/documents/492nd_bomb_sq_history.pdf+burtonwood+b-36&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=ie

See page 8

evansb

23rd Nov 2008, 12:14

Although not over Burtonwood, this photo captures the imposing mass of a SAC Convair B-36 performing a high-speed pass over a Texas beach.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/B-36-A.jpg

con-pilot

23rd Nov 2008, 18:02

Great picture. That is one of the very first B-36s, note that it does not have the four jet engines installed under the wings.

GERBY

25th Nov 2008, 16:15

Does any one know the last date(year) that a B36 visited the U.K.

gbroome1216

5th Mar 2011, 00:40

I remember the B36 flock landing; well. I lived in Widnes and the aircraft taking off from Burtonwood invariable flew low over our house, banked to port (Fairchild Packets, Douglas C124C Globemasters, B47 Stratojets, Stratofortresses, Sabres, and once or twice the Blue Angles,etc). We had a field at the back of our house and it gave me an unobstructed view of the sky. I was a keen plane spotter and a friend an I use to ride out to the airbase. We could get very close to the main runway and lie on our tums near one of the flight control and fire-fighter control points, watching the comings and goings. One day I watched a DC 3 doing bumps and circuits. He'd come in on his port side wheel and bounce the plane onto the starboard side one. He'd walk the plane down the runway bouncing from one wheel to the other and then fly round to repeat the whole performance. I was entranced. One day I came home from school and there were ten or more B36's circling to land at Burtonwood, like a flock of gulls. I was gobsmacked to see this aerial ballet and couldn't believe that so many huge planes could confidently, patiently bob and weave while the traffic controllers sorted out their aerial taphestry; their landing sequence. This would be about 1956/7. This was a very special time in my adolescence. Thank you USAF.

Old Photo.Fanatic

5th Mar 2011, 11:04

In the early fifties I lived on the west side of Bath.
Remember one day my father kept me home from school, saying something of interest to me, might occur!
Sometime during the day he said lets go outside and watch and listen .

Then they appeared, six B-36 routing over Bath ,assume going back to the States.
They were staggered down in height, first one high until the sixth one seemed to fill the sky, what a sight.
Of course with all this the fantastic sounds, never to be forgotten.

Nearest to it at the time, seeing/hearing the Brabazon many times turning to the west of Bath to line up for Filton. Then at Colerne Airshow 1953 three fairwell passes (Prior to scrapping) including a touch and go, by the Brab.

OPF

Kronenburg

5th Mar 2011, 13:04

Slight thread drift, but had a similar experience with a different aircraft type in the late seventies over Northants. Does anybody recall the F-111 that performed a dump and burn at medium level one summer evening ?

It caused quite a stir because the actual aircraft was not visible but the ball of flame certainly was, along with the tremendous sound.

Remember people rushing out of their houses thinking it was an asteroid or something ! Made the local paper anyway with a reassurance from the USAF that it was just "normal and routine" !

magpienja

5th Mar 2011, 18:14

JEM60...Wing Commander Ken Wallis, I got the great mans DVD for xmas....he goes into a lot of detail about his flying with USAF and his time on the B36,

He also mentions flying them into Burtonwood.....a DVD well worth watching....its still on ebay for £10 direct from the publishers.

Nick.

stepwilk

5th Mar 2011, 18:18

"the mere mention of June Allison..."

Allison was the engine. Allyson was the film star.

harbourm

5th Mar 2011, 20:45

Going back to the original thread, I was living in Liverpool at the time of the B36 circling round for half the night. Very noisy and unforgetable.
The Liverpool Echo (local rag) reported that the aircraft had shut down an engine and was burning off fuel.

HEATHROW DIRECTOR

6th Mar 2011, 08:49

I only ever saw one B-36 flying - on airways over my parents house in Morden, Surrey in the 1950s (Lydd-Sevenoaks- Epsom-Woodley, etc). I've seen a good few at various US museums though.

Last week I learned that a retired Heathrow ATCO and old buddy - Jack Frith - had passed on. I'm told that during his military service he flew a B-36.

chiglet

6th Mar 2011, 22:37

Harbourm,
I beleive that the pilot was not allowed to land at night, and was "asked" by Preston Air Traffic Control Centre to hold until daylight.. From what I was told by the ATCO, the off going watch forgot all about the B36, and didn't pass on the details.
Aparently at about 11am, a rather plaintive voice came over the R/t and said "Sir, we would like to land now, we only have two hours of fuel left"
I can imagine the faces of the watch.... :ok:
Could be an urban myth though..

Captain Dart

6th Mar 2011, 23:49

Is it true that some B-36 crews hung calendars in the flight deck? :}

Jig Peter

7th Mar 2011, 15:40

Manchester may have featured for a while in the once famous story of the B-36 out of Texas somewhere which made several attempts to land at various UK bases ("England fog-bound"), so decided to divert to either France or Germany, where he also found solid clag. North Africa was his next idea, towards which he duly pointed his machine.
On learning that that destination was also "out", he said "Aw shucks" (or similar) "Ah'm goin' back home" - and did.

An earlier post mentioned a would-be attacker getting upset by the slipstream - which reminded me young JP's Vampire suffering a similar discombobulation when I first tried a high quarter on a Lincoln. On a B-36 it must have been REALLY upsetting ... :sad::sad::sad:

Fareastdriver

7th Mar 2011, 18:23

IIRC Brize Norton, Fairford and Wheelus, near Tripoli, Libya were the only bases that could take the B36 east of the Atlantic.

Liffy 1M

7th Mar 2011, 18:57

IIRC Brize Norton, Fairford and Wheelus, near Tripoli, Libya were the only bases that could take the B36 east of the Atlantic.

Well they certainly visited Boscombe Down and Lakenheath too. Michael JF Bowyer's book "Force for Freedom - The USAF in The UK since 1948 " has more details.

PPRuNeUser0139

14th Mar 2011, 15:48

There's a B-36 featured in this clip (http://www.archive.org/details/wing_to_wing_TNA)at around 06:27..

Fareastdriver

14th Mar 2011, 19:12

Well they certainly visited Boscombe Down

Pulled it off Salisbury Plain and onto the airfield though the hedge, if I remember.

BEagle

14th Mar 2011, 22:46

Pulled it off Salisbury Plain and onto the airfield though the hedge, if I remember.

And by the time the aircraft commander managed to find a phone, Curtis LeMay was at the other end of the line advising him of his demotion.....:\

A30yoyo

15th Mar 2011, 00:54

St Mawgan had a B-36 emergency landing during a 1950s air show apparently

AWF118

15th Mar 2011, 09:37

If covered earlier in the thread, apologies but B36's were commonplace high over West London in the early post war years - tracking out over the radar monitoring system at the old Heston Airport, Middlesex, operated by the 23rd detachment of the USAF's 3903rd Radar Bomb Scoring Squadron SAC. They were later supplemented, then largely replaced, by B47s. In 1956, the unit moved across to the old Fairey Aviation factory in Hayes, Middlesex. I imagine that many, if not all, of them flew non-stop round trips from the States, culminating in a mock nuclear drop on "Moscow", "Kiev" or wherever - but actually London. How many of them were carrying live nukes? Sends a cold chill down what's left of my old spine.

Feathers McGraw

17th Mar 2011, 14:24

The reason for the unusual noise from the B-36 was that the propellers were naturally set at right angles to the fuselage but the wing trailing edges had a small amount of sweep, this caused interference between the wing wash and the propeller rotation. It caused a lot of problems during development and early service and also led to the replacement of the original hollow prop blades with solid blades to alleviate the many cracked blade roots that were suffered.

The prototype aircraft did not use a bogie undercarriage, instead there was a single 110" diameter main wheel, the runway loading meant that there were originally only 3 runways in the US that could take the loading applied by this large wheel. That was the reason why production aircraft switched to a bogie undercarriage so that the runway loading was reduced.

I have a book about the P&W R-4360, it is absolutely fascinating and stands as a testament to these last developments in radial piston engines. There are some interesting stories in it, but the thing that amused me is the comment from someone who used to work in the maintenance side of an airline that used the Boeing Stratocruiser about the way that an engine could be in perfect condition on shut down and then be broken when it became time to restart it. A very complex beast.

stepwilk

17th Mar 2011, 14:29

What's the title of the book? I'd love to see if I could get a copy somewhere...

Oh, wait, I found it--Graham White's book. It'll go nicely with his R-2800 book, which I have.

Fareastdriver

17th Mar 2011, 15:42

My previous post about the number of airfields the B36 could land east of the Atlantic was based on the single wheel undercarriage. The reasoning became obsolete at about the same time they added four jet engines. The two pods were, literally, lifted off the Boeing B47. The reason was that with growing weight the aircraft could not meet it designed speed and altitude over its target so it needed more boost; the four jet engines did that. In the normal cruise around the Atlantic they used to shut down two engines and fly around on four.

Buster the Bear

22nd Mar 2011, 22:32

My Dad vividly describes a cricket match at the Oval which was temporarily halted whilst a number B-36 passed close by. Now we probably know why.

Jeff Glasser

1st Apr 2011, 17:08

Some of the aeromodellers might be aware of this B.36 model being built in the states. You might skip through the thread as there is so much of it. If you love the B.36, you'll be amazed at this.

Jeff.

257" B-36D Scratch Build 6 a turning and 4 a burning - RC Groups (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=933242)

Harley Quinn

1st Apr 2011, 20:56

From SAC with Brigadier General James Stewart

Dave Eaton

29th Oct 2020, 21:42

Cornish Jack

30th Oct 2020, 10:11

Only once saw a '36 in flight but heard them frequently as a child. They routed inbound over Cornwall and the noise was unmistakeable - to me, it was reminiscent of a motor cycle! Surprised no mention made of the other crash of a 36 in UK . An odd tale with the version I heard being that it suffered a main engine shutdown and, for whatever reason, the crew bailed out. The aircraft circled on its own for nearly an hour and finally crashed at or near Lechlade, the wreckage spreading across three counties! - the county borders coincide near Lechlade. My knowledge of it comes from the fact that my brother (then in the RAF) was on guard duty at the site for 24 hours. While, today, I find it strange that this incident has not been mentioned, at the time, aircraft (especially military types) crashed often enough to make such things relatively unremarkable.:eek:

Quemerford

30th Oct 2020, 13:21

treadigraph

30th Oct 2020, 13:38

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/152762

SPIT

30th Oct 2020, 17:48

Hi wiccan
The aircraft you saw in the 50s probably was an RB 29 refueling some aircraft. About 1957 there was an air display at Liverpool Speke airport and I remember seeing an RB29 refueling three USAF fighters as part of the display (it would not be allowed now).

sycamore

30th Oct 2020, 20:30

I remember one bright blue-sky day,mid-50`s,out in a field near our house,flying my Mills.75 cc model,and becoming aware of a very strange deep noise; then saw in the distance a contrail.Gradually the noise got louder,contrail got wider and one could count about 8 trails.I knew it was a B-36 as I`d seen pictures in the `Eagle` magazine,probably at about 25-30k,very noisy,and then fading away heading towards N Ireland,then seeing another one coming,more contrails...as one disappeared ,another would come along at about 10-15 minute intervals,for what seemed like hours...the neighbours were all out watching,so I was able to tell everyone they were American B-36s,which probably restored some credibility from being complained about with a `noisy` diesel model aircraft....

Think the noise would be best described as a mix of Shack and Tu-95 Bear...once heard,never forgotten.....
You could throw in a bit of `Huey` into the mix as well....

Wyvernfan

30th Oct 2020, 22:00

Probably sounded something like this...

https://youtu.be/qh3pLSMl9J0

treadigraph

30th Oct 2020, 22:18

I've heard the AN-22 a couple of times which I suppose is as close to it as I'll ever get now...

Quemerford

30th Oct 2020, 23:17

Having heard the An-22 and Tu-95 plus watching Strategic Air Command many, many times (yet still not enough), it would seems that all of these types share a similar sound. I assume it has something to do with lots of prop blades in close proximity? Don't recall the Shack having a similar sound though.

treadigraph

31st Oct 2020, 07:02

The Shackleton certainly had a very similar sound, just not as loud. Anything with disturbed air passing through the prop arc seems noisier/different, Cessna 337, Avanti, VariEze, Lake Buccaneer, Chris Jacquard's Spitfire 19 before he replaced the contra-prop Griffon 57 with a 65...

washoutt

31st Oct 2020, 10:04

I first thought you could see the shadow of the B-36 flash over the pitcher. But then I realised, that the sun was at the right side of the frame, and the aircraft was flying on the left side, so it was definitely not the bombers shadow.
But what then could it have been?

Cornish Jack

31st Oct 2020, 10:39

Thank you, Quemerford and Treadigraph, for that info and link. Reassuring to know that the memory is not entirely out of commission!

chevvron

31st Oct 2020, 10:54

Rather similar to the sound I made while sitting on the toilet having just had a colonoscopy.(They pump air into you to get the endoscope in)

L1649

31st Oct 2020, 19:52