Auto landing systems

[dunc0936]

A new American science fiction series last night called "Finge" from the makers of lost had a B747 landing itself to a standstill after all on board were killed, the aircraft was on auto on pre programmed flight plan.

I know autopilots are sophisticated these days, but are they that advanced yet??? or this just another one of those TV playing with fact stories?

I found this on the net, Satellite Navigation & Air Traffic Control and Landing Systems (SATNAV & ATCALS) (http://www.arinc.com/products/aircraft_systems/satnav.html)

has it made it in to Airbus and Boeing yet?


Duncan

[CL300]

daily operation (almost) for the last 30 years,Auto decrab, Autoland , Autobrake.

Prerequisites : FMS properly programmed, and a CAT3 runway; plus an aircraft equiped and certified to do so. And someone to lower the gear and drop the flaps..:hmm:

As today, only the take off phase needs manual inputs, (raise nose,gear, flaps)....:E

This is routinely done when weather is very bad in terms of visibility.:E

[dunc0936]

right so in some ways fiction still at the moment!

[dunc0936]

right so in some ways fiction still at the moment!

[NutLoose]

Remember the one in Cyprus a few years ago that flew itself there with all onboard incapacitated then entered the holdng pattern before running out of fuel.

[SNS3Guppy]

While autoland is a real capability, it's got to be set up from onboard the airplane. It's not something that a manufacturer or the employer/owner-operator will perform from outside the aircraft.

An autoland approach is also sometimes referred to as a "Category III" approach, meaning it's got different visibility criteria than a regular "Category I" approach. One can literally land without being able to see a thing. The approach category describes the type of equipment required, the certification of the aircrew, the certification of the company, and the weather minimums for the approach. Autoland simply describes the ability of the airplane, and it's systems...two different things, but interrelated.

In order to make a successful auto landing, a number of factors must exist at just the right time. Multiple onboard autopilots are involved. An automated approach is a very closely monitored approach by the pilots flying the approach. If any factor fails to meet the necessary criteria during the approach, the airplane must be flown by hand, or a "missed approach" flown, or landed under different circumstances...an airplane may start out the approach as a full Cat III autoland approach, but may not end up that way due to a number of possibilities.

Long and the short of it is that the concept of an airplane simply approaching and landing on it's own without any internal input or oversight, given present aircraft and the present reality, is somewhat far fetched. Certainly an airplane could be programmed to do that (from onboard with today's technology and equipment), or even flown remotely if the equipment were available to do it. It would leave a lot of potential for error and disaster, however, which is why a living pilots sit in the airplane and operate the approach.

Even with a fully automated approach, the important distinction to recognize is that the pilot is still operating the approach. Whether the pilot does it by manually making inputs to the control stick or column, or does it through an autopilot or other controller...it's still a pilot operated approach. Just different equipment and different ways of accomplishing the same thing.

[virgo]

Guppy, what you've said is all absolutely true, but the reality is that if both pilots were totally incapacitated (Dead), if someone reasonably intelligent but knowing nothing about aeroplanes was in the cockpit and able to communicate on the radio, they should be able to follow instructions and set up for a fully automatic approach and landing......ASSUMING NOTHING WENT WRONG ! (Which in my experience is normal - I've only had to abandon two auto-lands out of hundreds due to technical problems).
However, if things DO go wrong.....................!!!!!!

[SNS3Guppy]

Yes, it's entirely possible that with adequate instruction, the airplane could be set up to do just that.

[BigJoeRice]

"right so in some ways fiction still at the moment! "

Granted, I was enjoying a swift half, but in this episode, it seemed to me that not only did it land perfectly, but it cleared the active, taxied to the gate, parked, and all without burying nose or wingtip in a jetbridge, bag cart or the terminal; and with nary a pilot, a plucky flight attendant, or a gnarly piston pounding retiree to guide it. Perhaps in a few years with SATNAV and some other black arts, but not today I think.

[L Peacock]

Interesting comments on the monitoring task. However, there is more chance of a manual approach ending in catastrophe than an automatic one.

[SNS3Guppy]

Not necessarily. I usually do better with a hand flown one than an automated one.

[L Peacock]

Please define better.

[CL300]

With a Head up display ( way the CAT3 manual approches are flown), the flying is very precise, much more precise than a flight director one.

The successful landing is achived when from dh to touchdown, the aircraft stays within the landing parameters.

CAT3 autopilots are unbeatable at this game, a large transport aircraft (boeing or Airbus) for example, would change its crab angle if the wind shifts during the descent, without anyone feeling it, it would decrab, flare and brake by itself. There is no problems since most of the time in LVPs you have to vacate towards the end of the runway. Then the fun begins to find your way to the gate...

But if maually flown, your minimas are 50ft.....this is quite high , just the beginning of the landing phase ( per certification); proper training and practice would make all these landings a perfect 10. A lot of airlines are using it everyday (almost) and it works. Again, ones have to remember that you fly these approches as 2 crews, increasing tenfolds your awareness and success rate.

at the end of the day, you are doing what you can do with the piece of kit you do operate, your company authorisations and what your Sop's dictates... this is what a professionnal pilot does ...