Married Quarter Standards [Archive]

endplay

3rd Oct 2008, 17:05

There appear to be contradictions in this story. The family's version seems to gel with the response (hotel, welfare house and £100 compensation) but is at odds with the redecoration, new kitchen, carpets and the claim that the cleaners found no problem.

Having "followed the flag" and lived in MQs for most of my 40 years service I would not advocate a return to the draconian march out (with white gloved families officer) but it's passing, as with so many things in life that sound like a common sense and popular idea at first, are often a step on a road to disastrously lowered standards. JPA, PAYD et al.

If the airman's version is close to the truth then it's little short of a disgrace.

SRENNAPS

3rd Oct 2008, 17:12

AA, Sorry but that is too simple an answer.

.....and what that means is the liaison officer on camp has limited control over the standards of these properties.

A very convenient excuse to be able to bury head in sand and not actually do anything about a known problem.

Somehow I don’t think the agreed contract said “All Liaison officers, family’s officers or any other busy body shall completely ignore any poor standards that we the new Japanese owners choose to inflict on young defenceless airmen and their families”.

A cynical response from me but let’s face it very true I feel.

Truckkie

3rd Oct 2008, 17:36

Hmm FMQ estates:mad:

At the soon-to-be-closed secret Wiltshire airbase the contactors are spending millions on upgrading the central heating systems.

Expected completion date...........2012:ok:

Airborne Aircrew

3rd Oct 2008, 18:14

“All Liaison officers, family’s officers or any other busy body shall completely ignore any poor standards that we the new Japanese owners choose to inflict on young defenceless airmen and their families”.

They never seemed to have any compunction in metaphorically arse-raping us when we did a handover and nail us for everything wrong when I was in... What happened to the handover of the previous resident?

SRENNAPS

3rd Oct 2008, 19:20

AA

They never seemed to have any compunction in metaphorically arse-raping us when we did a handover and nail us for everything wrong when I was in..

Totally agree. They were very good at picking on the defenceless. Shame they are not as tough now when dealing with people “UP” the chain. Quality of life might have improved for everybody if they had of been.

The Burning Bush

3rd Oct 2008, 21:32

"I've told Aarron to choose between me and the RAF"

Err......Bye then.

sycamore

3rd Oct 2008, 22:07

How many ex-senior officers are on the management boards of the companies charged with running the MQs?

Al R

4th Oct 2008, 06:09

There's more to this than meets the eye. The story just focuses on allegations, lets remember that, and lets allow for some poetic licence. If the family can tell me how to keep fleas out of a house in the first place then I want to know, I'll make a fortune. He should remember that if his beloved RAF can't keep Backfires out of England, it sure isn't going to keep fleas out of his Welsh MQ. Perhaps Davina glares at them and they simply wither.

Following the infestation she asked for (and got) a new mattress and it seems that the RAF is genuinely making every effort to address this problem. One hesitates to personalise this because it would be a great loss if the aggrieved Davina and Aarron decided that they must put the salary and pension behind them, go get a mortgage and a new house and a new job, but I understand totally if thats what he feels he must do.

But lets cut to the chase shall we? He says that he has got a new job and has to stay - the poor little poppet. Imagine being trained and actually being asked to honour your commitment? The outrage!! One imagines dark forces at work here - either that or the malodorous whiff of disgruntled and frothing coffee morning gussets.

Farewell Davina and Aaron. :{

D-IFF_ident

4th Oct 2008, 09:47

Was fortunate to do my last ever march-out recently. The nice lady that did the pre-march out mentioned a couple of points worthy of note. If a bulb didn't work on inspection then I would be charged for it - 15 quid, for one bulb; a battery gone flat in a smoke detector - that would be 25 pounds please. You can see why the standards are low - the poor pennniless darlings.

Looker

4th Oct 2008, 10:09

The standards of the MQ's I occupied always matched the aircraft I flew - unfortunately being on a Canberra squadron at Wyton meant living in a 1950's time warp.

When the desparately needed updates arrived it was carried out in a brutal manner. The botched double glazing installation in November whilst I was away on detachment meant my wife and children were left over the weekend with no front door or front downstairs windows - just plastic sheeting!

Two's in

4th Oct 2008, 16:14

Before we rush to judge his wife as some publicity seeking harridan, someone on that base who should have performed a basic check of the condition of the MQ before occupation either chose not to do that, or judged it to be fit for an OR and his family.

She is the one who will be living in a festering ****e hole while he is in a hot sandy place serving his country, she is the one trying to bring up a small child while her husband is away, she is the one who will be judging the quality of life her husband receives from the RAF. In turn, he is the one who will be receiving the letters from home, he is the one who will be distracted from his primary duties because of the dereliction of duty to provide basic level of housing to his family, and he is the one who can't do a damn thing about it because of his service and rank.

Don't ever underestimate the demoralizing and destabilizing effect that comes when you fail to provide the most basic needs to your junior ranks and their families.

The net result is another black eye for HM Forces in general, the RAF in particular, and has exposed the lack of welfare or consideration for the families. Another successful PPI indeed.

Al R

4th Oct 2008, 16:37

Here's another version.. it seems the MQ has evolved a set of problems. :eek:

RAF Kinloss housing hailed as best - Press & Journal (http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/866595?UserKey)=

I cringe when I see dreadful MQs, such as those at Bze etc. But whats the real craic here I wonder? Didn't the chump see the carpet was poor before he signed for it? Didn't he notice the stains, didn't he see the windows were smashed. Christ, the place was fumigated within 24 hours too. Sorry, but I imagine these problems have been blown out of all proportion (has anyone seen digital pictures, aren't they all the rage?).. he's a disgruntled 'guin who is trying to work his ticket and she's a Jock who can't handle being away from home.

The RAF seems to have done everything possible to address this, but still thats not good enough for them is it? Sorry, sympathy nil for the way they've handled this. Mag to grid both of 'em. Give 'em what they want and I hope their new house is perfect for them.

And now she's suffering stress. Still, where there's blame.

Broadsword***

5th Oct 2008, 05:46

I tend to agree with Al R.

How many homes does DHE administer? It must be tens of thousands. Some are excellent, most are mediocre and, occasionally, someone will find one that is very poor. It seems the Campbells moved from an excellent SFA to very poor one, which (fleas notwithstanding) can only have hightened their sense of disappointment with their new abode.

wg13_dummy

5th Oct 2008, 07:54

BUT THE SPROG IS A GWARR!!! :eek:

Nice to see Aaron is wearing his blues though.

Aaron? Sounds like the sort of name you'd expect to see on the Jeremy Kyle show.

SRENNAPS

5th Oct 2008, 08:08

OK let’s look at this from a different angle. They are a young couple with a child of six months. Why post them in the first place. To them (especially the wife) St Athan might as well be the other side of the planet. If they were happy at Kinloss in a nice quarter why uproot them. And don’t give me the “life in a blue suit” cr$p. This is 2008 and the RAF is very small and situations like this can be managed. I wonder just how many young airmen/airwomen and their families from S Wales or even Sothern England are stuck at Kinloss or Lossi when they would rather been down south.

Don’t forget he is a young SAC. He can’t just pick up the phone to his desk officer and negotiate his next posting. Somebody in his chain of command should have been protecting him.

And finally, if he has got a definite civilian job lined up, how come the RAF won’t release him? The statement “if you have a definite job offer they will release you quicker” is often stated on this forum. Or does that rule only apply to people that have rights; because let’s face it SACs don’t have many.

wg13_dummy

5th Oct 2008, 08:12

SRENNAPS, it may well be 2008 but for a military force to operate effectively, the needs of the service still come above the needs of the individual.

Al R

5th Oct 2008, 08:26

SRENNAPS,

He has the right to complain about anything, but movement is a facet of service life that he and his wife will have known about. Jesus, if puddle jumpers can colonise Texas and stave off Injun attacks whilst heavily sired and dragging children behind them, what have we come to if we have glum looking serviceman running to the BBC simply because they have a wife who can't get her own way? Will the next stage be that anyone in the RAF who has a child under 3 can work from home in case they miss those vital first steps?

And lets consider the aspect of personal responsibility. Ok, so he accepted the house with these 'problems', but come on.. she walked over a carpet which she 'knew' to be dangerous holding her ruddy child for god's sake! WTF was she doing? I see nothing wrong in making the poor little poppet honour the terms of his service, or perhaps there might be a way of recovering a percentage of costs sustained in the course of his training? I am quite happy that we don't have people like this defending the realm, but I don't see why we should also be out of pocket simply because some recruiter needed to get the numbers up a few years before.

Good riddance to the pair of them.. people like this make my piss boil and will just enforce the notion that the RAF is full of non hacking, whining, under the thumb, hysterical eejits. Lets consider the facts.

1. House accepted 500 miles from home of disgruntled wife.. all manner of faults seemingly not noticed at time of acceptance by Aaarron who resumably, is too busy reading 'Sitautions Vacant' during HoTo.
2. House has fleas - rectified within 24 hours and all DHE personnel undertaking flea reccognition on wet Fridays.
3. Mother given £100 to buy new mattress (Jesus, I wish I could have £100 to buy a new mattress!!).
4. A hinge is broken in new house, and family is put up in hotel whilst that is sorted.
5. Family (which wanted to PVR anyway) decides to share with nation and run to the BBC.
6. DHE and RAF seem to have tried everything possible to put this right, and I still remain to see evidence of the malaise. I'm sure the MQ might possibly have been a little tired, but get over it woman!!

If he had engaged constructively with the RAF, I wouldn't have minded.. I probably would have clucked my teeth in sympathy, but to think that he can go right flanking by running to the meeja exposes him and the facts to some pretty close scrutiny and having rummaged around a bit, I have no sympathy for the pair of them. As has been suggested, the DHE manages thousands of houses - lets allow them the chance to put things right (which they seem to have been trying to do) and lets keep things in perspective here.

Lets save the military hard done to stories in the media for the lads who have had their feet blown off and left to fend for themselves at railway stations eh, and not a pair of chancers like this couple and a bored copywriter who jumps on a bandwagon. Thinking in particular about the economic woes, haven't we seen enough highjacking and distorting of the real issues by the media over the past couple of weeks as it is?

SRENNAPS

5th Oct 2008, 08:28

for a military force to operate effectively, the needs of the service still come above the needs of the individual.

Did you think of that all by yourself all did you read it in some military doctrine book.

So by not posting a Jock SAC and his wife to St Athan, operational effectiveness will be truly compromised. As I said situations like this can be and should be managed more effectively in this day and age. It just take a bit of people care and effort.

Some of you really can’t see why morale is $hit out there. With an attitude like that you are part of the problem. Be a good leader and recognise it.

AL R

You don’t know the real truth behind this story other that what you have read. I fail to see how you can execute them. I would rather give them the benefit of doubt knowing from my experience how young airmen/women have been treated over the years.

Al R

5th Oct 2008, 08:32

Wherever possible, sure - people's needs should be considered, but thats never going to be allowed in ALL cases. Aarron knew the craic when he joined up and what do we do.. not post ANYONE where they don't want to go?

wg13_dummy

5th Oct 2008, 08:37

SRENNAPS, it has nothing to do with him and his doris being posted to a ****e MQ but it has all to do with him being posted somewhere he didnt want to go. Would he have blubbed to the BBC if his MQ was in Lossie?

What would happen to the forces if everyone just did as they pleased or ran to the press because they've been sent somewhere that doesnt suit them?

Get a grip. It may well be 2008 and fashionable to appear 'caring' but one thing that marks the Armed Forces out from civpop is having a bit of mettle. Something 'Aaron' appears to be lacking.

ShyTorque

5th Oct 2008, 08:54

The dreadful state of MQs was a major factor in my decision to leave HM Forces in 1994; I could relate a few horror stories too. Looks like things haven't changed much. Screw most blokes about as much as you like, no problem. Start screwing wife and kids about, game over.

SRENNAPS

5th Oct 2008, 08:58

Wg13 dummy,

Why was it necessary to post him to St Athan when there are personnel stationed in Scotland who “WANT” to get posted South (St Athan included).

He is an SAC engineer, not some one off specialist whose lack of posting would cause the RAF to grind to a halt.

And trust me when I say that I know plenty of “professional and loyal” officers who have got out of postings they did not want or wrangled ones that they did want by making a quick back door phone call.

Hypocrisy seems to spring to mind here. I am certainly the one that does not need to “get a grip”

wg13_dummy

5th Oct 2008, 09:02

ShyTorque, 'Aaron' is 22 so I would guess he has been in the RAF for about 4 years max.

Is this his second MQ?

If so, I'd suggest he's not exactly got a wide perspective of service life.

If all of us just binned it due to one or two bad MQs, there would be no one left in the forces.

I agree there is no excuse for sub standard or even uninhabitable MQs in this day and age but ffs, he doesn't appear to be terribly resilient to forces life. Crikey, next they'll be telling him what uniform to wear and making him do an annual fitness test. :rolleyes:

SRENN;

Why was it necessary to post him to St Athan when there are personnel stationed in Scotland who “WANT” to get posted South (St Athan included).

He should have worked for Tescos if he didn't want to move outside Scotland.

I seriously cant believe you have no understanding of the services concidering you spent so long in the RAF.

Al R

5th Oct 2008, 09:05

Shy Torque,

How has his wife been screwed over? Lets face it, we know the score. She went looking for problems the moment her beloved Aarron was told he couldn't get his own way and the moment she had to leave home. What did she expect when she got married, what did he tell her about his job.. and living near a military community, didn't she know that people in the RAF sometimes have to (gulp).. move?

I have turned a MQ down because it was **** so I know where you're coming from, and I have been able to put the flat of my hand through a crack in the wall at Aldershot. Titally and completely unnacceptable, end of story - no questions asked - hang the person who prioritised ANYTHING over needs like that. But I wonder just how bad Aarron's place was compared to the likes of Upwood Drive, which was scheduled for demolition anyway. Don't you find it strange that there aren't any photos of these 'smashed windows', these 'stains on the wall' or the 'trashed carpets'? Everything has a life and it could be that the items in question here are coming to the end of their life. Or it could be that the real damage wouldn't have made such good copy?

Once again, I think that this is simply a vehicle for him to work his ticket. He had his MP on the case long before this and I find it sad that the system can be undermined in such a manner. Lets save the media slaggings for the things that are REALLY important, that have been investigated and those that have been substantiated. Otherwise the message will be diluted. Or have we just got bloody soft?

goudie

5th Oct 2008, 09:11

personnel stationed in Scotland who “WANT” to get posted South (St Athan included).

Does the 'exchange posting' facility still exist?

Re the MQ, after 3 yrs in a dingy hiring, Mrs G and I were only too grateful to get one. It wasn't perfect (I refused it at first, it was filthy) but we set to and made it so.

ShyTorque

5th Oct 2008, 09:23

I don't know the full facts of this case so won't speculate. All I can say is, from my own experiences of my family being expected to live in sub-standard conditions, I have some sympathy with him.

SRENNAPS

5th Oct 2008, 09:56

I seriously cant believe you have no understanding of the services concidering you spent so long in the RAF.

That’s the point, because of the length of time I was in I do have an understanding of service life including the aspects that cause low morale and generally pi$$ people off.

To you and a few others in the minority on this site he is just an SAC low life who should have worked harder at school. He is cannon fodder who should just do what he is told with no questions asked. He (or his wife) does not have the right to have an opinion.

This is just a thought and it may be incorrect and apologies if so. You are a pilot who probably has very little in the way of people management skills. Yes you have done theoretical leadership and management courses but unless you come into contact and manage people like this SAC on a day to day basis then I suggest that you have very little understanding of Service Life with respect to other members of the service.

Now I agree that he may be swinging the lead and trying to work his ticket, I really don’t know. But it saddens me to hear some of the comments here when you don’t know the truth. There is a bigger picture here and I don’t think you can see it.

The cause of low morale in the RAF is a lot closer to home than you think.

wg13_dummy

5th Oct 2008, 10:40

You are wrong I'm afraid. I am a SNCO and was an infanteer prior to going flying so I have more than a rough theoretical idea on managing 'cannon fodder'.

The only people who know the truth are SAC whatever his name is, the people who have directly dealt with him and apparently, the BBC. :hmm:

If his situation is the norm or common, how come loads of others haven't followed his line and blubbed to the media?

We can only go on what we have seen via the press and as this is a discussion forum; we discuss. From the 'facts' presented, it appears that he has gone out of his way to cause a fuss despite the relevant people trying their hardest to put it right.

Now, if it had been the case that he was forced to live in the original MQ without anything being done then I would say he has a valid complaint (through the CoC). Then and only then once all his avenues had been exhausted, he should have sought advice from SSAFA etc. Were his direct CoC aware? I.e., Flt Sgt, WO and Flt Lt? If so, I would like to think something would have been resolved without the need to go to the media and his MP.

All in all, it doesn’t read quite right. Bloke and missus get posted to god forbid, another country. Missus doesn't want to go. He is given the ultimatum we have probably all been given by our other half’s at one time or another. The icing on the cake for him is a shoddy MQ. He sees this as a perfect opportunity to pull yellow and black. Fist port of call; the BBC. If he demonstrates that sort of commitment after about 4 years service, him and service life probably are not compatible. Plus his sprog is ginger ffs!

SRENNAPS

5th Oct 2008, 13:08

Wg 13 dummy

Apologies for inferring that you were of a higher rank. However, I am now even more surprised at the conclusion that you have come to based on a media story. Most SNCO’s I knew were a little more open minded and compassionate towards their own.

Nevertheless, I think we will have to agree to disagree on this subject.

Mileandahalf

My comments were never aimed at yourself. However, you are right; I know nothing about your background. Why don’t you complete your profile then maybe I would have some idea. I can never understand people (especially those involved in contentious issues) who don’t even provide a simple background to what they do/did.

It made me laugh that you consider “Estate Manger” to be a term from the “old days”.

It seems that many of you have made up your minds that this young man is a good for nothing waster who is trying to pull his ticket. Maybe he is, I don’t really know and I don’t really care. To me though, I see a wider, more disturbing picture.

Despite all the bad press reports about Service Accommodation there are still big problems out there that do not seem to be being addressed (unless of course it comes to the attention of the media). Also, as for his posting (and I have seen it so many times in my career) it proves that the “system” just posts young airmen without any form of management or thought. As I said in an earlier post I personally know several young engineers stationed at both Kinloss and Lossi who do not want to be there. We all know that your “3 choices of posting” can be farcical sometimes but I think that this posting just makes a mockery of the system.

For anybody who does not know St Athan , there are not that many engineering posts there. I am pretty certain there are several Welsh personnel dotted around the country that have been trying to get there. Finally, there are very few quarters at St Athan and it would not surprise me that if he had turned it down he would have been told that he would not get another one for several months.

JessTheDog

5th Oct 2008, 14:39

My experience of FQs leads me to sympathise with AC Campbell. I was at High Wycombe where the quarters were managed very poorly. A colleague of mine was on detatchment when his family were turfed out so their part of the patch could be flogged off! There were problems aplenty (disrepairs, damp and mould etc, and my own experience waiting months for a repair) and the general feeling that, unless you were an Air Cdre or above, they weren't interested.

The RAF has a duty of care to dependents and cannot wriggle out of it by claiming operational effectiveness is a greater priority, that the quarter charges are below market rent, or any other arguments. If families are not supported then they will leave and the RAF will be a service manned mostly by those under the age of 25. Also, morale will suffer - particularly if personnel are detached and not in a position to raise problems with the CoC. Finally, a contract is a contract and DHE are obliged to deliver appropriate accommodation and the annual FQ charge is well above inflation, with a stated intention to rise towards market rates.

This isn't a new development - my mother wrote to the papers sometime around 1970 with a similar issue when my father was serving (he left when I was born) and - lo and behold - something was done about it and the CoC was not best pleased. This is why there is a need for a Federation - to allow personnel a voice with regard to non-operational issues. We all know the CoC can't do a lot now, with privatisations etc, so even the boss or CO can't do a great deal in many cases, so this is a political problem.

PICKS135

5th Oct 2008, 14:51

Amazing an airman kicks off about garbage quarters, and he's a whinger who should wind his neck in and take it like a man.

However look how many pages this has http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/345419-blues-if-not-flying.html

Its a matter of moral.

Dons helmet and runs for cover

Al R

5th Oct 2008, 16:35

You can put as many words in other people's mouths as you like, but they'll still be your words.

No one has suggested that he shouldn't raise a grievance and no one has suggested that he take it like a man, or even wind his neck in. For my part though, I have doubts about their true motives here, the facts and how and why he seems to have decided to go straight to the BBC instead of following a more productive and constructive course of action. Its that which I have an issue with.

opso

5th Oct 2008, 16:52

This is a very interesting case where so much opinion can be so strongly expressed when almost no facts are known:

Probably fact - or, at least, not disputed:

SAC Campbell is 22 years old, having joined at 16 on a 9 yr engagement
He is married with 1 child and a 2nd on the way
He was posted from Kinloss to St Athen
He has applied for a civilian job and the MoD has not released him early
This has come to the attention of his MP and the media

Aside from that, there are 2 distinctly different stories that should make it almost impossible for people without 1st hand knowledge to comment usefully:

http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp287/opso/05-10-200817-42-49.png

Many of these claims (on either side) should be verifiable to any semi-decent journalist. However, without the verification and with such differing stories, is it really possible for us to cast aspersions one way or the other with any merit?:=

taxydual

5th Oct 2008, 17:04

AI R

I concur with everything you have written.

However, substitute he for she. She has the power, he has not. She is a civilian, he is not.

She can bleat to whomsoever, he cannot.

I think we are seeing a new breed of 'service Ladies, Wives, Women' (delete as rank accordingly).

Maybe a good thing.

But................ 24 yo, 1 small child, another on the way, away from Mum in Scotland for the first time (I surmise). (If I'm wrong. I apologise). Perhaps Davina and the RAF should part company.

Watch this space though for the lawsuit.

This was written during Opso's post, so they passed in the Ether.

Further addition. A bit 'Staff in Confidence' there, Opso old chap, perhaps?

opso

5th Oct 2008, 17:11

Information taken straight from the 2 newspaper reports - no other information used. I know nothing more of the case than I have seen here and the 2 linked reports - I was just interested to see how much conjecture there was on so little information and how the major differences in 2 sides of the story have been glossed over with various posters simply grabbing onto the bits that support their preconceptions.

My view - the jury's still out. However, I suspect that the DHE/MOD line could be the easiest to confirm or deny through the use of the FOIA.

taxydual

5th Oct 2008, 17:14

Opso,

Apologies.

opso

5th Oct 2008, 17:16

No problems. No chance of the MiB turning up on my doorstep (yet).:ok:

wg13_dummy

5th Oct 2008, 17:32

Many of these claims (on either side) should be verifiable to any semi-decent journalist.

Opso, we're talking about the BBC here. Lately, they are like The Sun but in moving pictures.

Of course, the Beeb hasn't any history of attacking the MoD with no evidence whatsoever have they? :rolleyes:

Maybe they should do a prog called 'undercover SAC moving into MQs'?

They'll 'find' huge amounts of racism, ageism, disablism, bullying and of course the fact that ginger children are the spawn of satan.

I'll bet that could fill an hours worth of TV.

SRENNAPS

5th Oct 2008, 18:34

Many of you have decided to castrate this young man and his family because he has gone to the press over the state of their MQ. I can understand that, although I do feel you are being extremely harsh.

I believe the reason for your anger is because the MQ is not the issue but the fact that he has been posted from Scotland to Wales and they are not happy. The MQ is an excuse for him to use over his bitterness towards his posting. He wears a blue suit and should be prepared to go anywhere the RAF chose to send him I hear you say.

I am sure that many of you have been in the same position with unwanted postings and just taken it on the chin. I can’t say it happened to me and my family because on average I was posted every 3 years and we actually enjoyed being posted (especially back to Bruggen). But that was us. Just for the record, we lived in 10 MQs. Some were good, others were crap; dirty & old, coal fires, no heating system upstairs, plenty of damp and would you believe our flat at BZN had fleas.

Don’t forget the RAF has had a policy, for many years, of minimum disruption. It has encouraged its personnel to stay put. Dam, you could not even get enough volunteers for places like Germany because the majority were happy, having bought their own house and settled in a job they were quite happy with. I know many who have spent the majority of their careers (25+ years) in the same location, especially camps like Odiham, BZN and even RAF East Anglia & RAF Scotland.

So could somebody please explain the reason for his posting from Scotland to Wales. What deep rooted operational reason made it essential that this young man and his family had to be posted? I don’t except it was his turn because nobody else wanted to go there. As I have said already I personally know several people in Scotland that would love to be posted to St Athan or anywhere down south.

Does anybody from the Scottish bases know him? Was he happy where he was? Did he do a good job? Was he a chap with good potential career prospects? If the answers to these questions are no and he is a whinging waster, I stand corrected and agree; kick the little git out. If the answer is yes then why screw him around?

In an Air Force of very few bases and 40000 ish personnel there is no reason or excuse for extreme postings, especially for young families.

I am beginning to sound like a stuck record in trying to get my point across and I apologise for that.

Al R

5th Oct 2008, 18:41

Srennaps,

With respect, thats a bit of a red herring. If he dissagrees with his posting, then he can question it and reasons have to be given. The issue of him being posted has no relevence to how he and his wife have conducted themselves.

By the way, I do not want to 'castrate' his wife, promise. ;)

Or him and his daughter come to that!!

taxydual

5th Oct 2008, 19:03

srennaps

So could somebody please explain the reason for his posting from Scotland to Wales. What deep rooted operational reason made it essential that this young man and his family had to be posted? I don’t except it was his turn because nobody else wanted to go there. As I have said already I personally know several people in Scotland that would love to be posted to St Athan or anywhere down south.

You know and I (we) know that no-one can answer those questions on this Forum. The reasons could be valid and necessary.

At the end of the day, does the whole story not come across as a touch whiffy? She is not happy about the move and she is driving the debate? That he has a civvy job in the offing, not withstanding the RAF commitment that he agreed and signed for.

The words 'Ticket' and 'Working' still spring to mind.

SRENNAPS

5th Oct 2008, 19:47

AL R

If he disagrees with his posting, then he can question it and reasons have to be given.

He is a low life SAC that nobody listens to.

The issue of him being posted has no relevence to how he and his wife have conducted themselves.

We dont know the full story and why he has gone to this length.

By the way, I do not want to 'castrate' his wife, promise.

I liked that.... Good call:ok:

taxydual

You know and I (we) know that no-one can answer those questions on this Forum.

I agree totally.

The reasons could be valid and necessary.

That would surprise me.

At the end of the day, does the whole story not come across as a touch whiffy? She is not happy about the move and she is driving the debate? That he has a civvy job in the offing, not withstanding the RAF commitment that he agreed and signed for.
The words 'Ticket' and 'Working' still spring to mind.

I really think this has been covered several times in this thread. Can you not see the bigger picture.

I imagine that this tread will be closed soon by the MODS because the argument has become tiresome. Not sure that it has helped towards improving the quality of life for the “lower ranks” of the Air Force.

goudie

5th Oct 2008, 20:00

I would like to castigate those 'posters' who keep referring to a SAC as 'low life'. If that's the general view of a young Airman of low rank then no wonder he may be, 'working his ticket'!

Al R

5th Oct 2008, 20:40

SRENNAPS,

I applaud your doggedness.

His rank isn't the issue, and certainly isn't something that makes a jot of difference to me. All ranks sometimes have bum postings.. what do we do, temporarily set aside the Defence of the Realm?

The full story? Well, we can go on what he and his wife have told us I suppose.

taxydual

5th Oct 2008, 21:27

Sorry SRENNAPS, but I cannot agree with your (well put) argument..

However, I will defend your right, to the death, for you to have that argument.........

(A badly misquoted cliché, I know).

I hope for a good result for Aaron, Davina and the Royal Air Force.

I hope a lesson learned, for all parties, comes of this.

As an aside, I was posted from Leeming to Lossiemouth. My replacement was posted from Lossiemouth to Leeming. We both had families in 'home' bases. We both did the same job.(I looked at Tornado F3's, he looked at Tornado GR4's). Why the moves? No-one (even desk) couldn't explain it!
However, we contented ourselves waving at each other going through Edinburgh Station, one going north, one going south and vice versa.

I wonder what future, G**** and myself would have had, if we have had 'Davina' to 'assist us in our careers'.

Down'n'Dirty

6th Oct 2008, 00:04

A friend of mine is a local on the patch at Saints. He had a look through the windows of the first place yesterday to see how bad it was. I was talking to him today about something else and he said had I seen it in the news.

Well, well, well! Apparently, its got a modern kitchen, brand-new fireplace, carpets looked good. But its in amongst some Army wallas. Me thinks Al R has it about right. Also, welfare house is supposed to be top notch so not sure why the complaint there either?

:=

Twon

6th Oct 2008, 06:55

SRENNAPS,

I hear your points but still suspect the story is somewhere between the arguements here. There is a strong whiff of "I don't want to serve outside Scotland" surrounding this story.

That aside, he may be required to do a trade training course there? Someone else may have wanted a crack at a tour in Scotland after 5 years in England/Wales? The point is that this is seperate from the MQ issue and should be dealt with through the CoC, not the Media. Ditto for his release issue; with manning shortfalls as they are, we may not be able to get a trained replacement for him for another 18 months, hence the denial of early release (a privilege, not an entitlement).

I do have some sympathy with the MQ issue but echo the comments RE turning it down, reporting faults through correct chain, awaiting corrective action etc, before taking this to the Media. It does no favours to the MOD to air our dirty linen in public. (It probably wont help his early release either as the MOD are only applying the rules here and do not have to bend to pressure from the Media, otherwise we'll then have the opposite "Dire shortage of trained manpower" headlines!)

Twon