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Airbubba
2nd Oct 2008, 14:28
From today's MIA Herald:

Posted on Wed, Oct. 01, 2008

2 JetBlue pilots charged in attack on cabbie

BY KIRSTIN MAGUIRE

Two JetBlue pilots have been charged with two counts of theft and one of felony battery after allegedly attacking a Miami cab driver over a $9 fare after a ride from a Fort Lauderdale strip club to a Subway restaurant, police said.

Pilots William Hart Smith, 40, and Brad Leopard, 38, both of Fort Lauderdale, allegedly attacked cab driver Juan Martin at about 2 a.m. Aug. 12, said Fort Lauderdale Detective Katherine Collins. The pilots were arrested weeks later, on Sunday...



2 JetBlue pilots charged in attack on cabbie | MiamiHerald.com (http://www.miamiherald.com/news/broward/story/708280.html)

Dysag
2nd Oct 2008, 14:58
Brad Leopard? Some guys will never change their spots.

Guilty! Next please...........

GlueBall
2nd Oct 2008, 15:02
One can only wonder if belligerent jet jocks as such also have TSA permits to carry guns into the cockpit. :ooh:

captainspeaking
2nd Oct 2008, 15:16
The bit that depresses me is that they were on their way to a Subway Restaurant. Have these people no style?

Jumbo744
2nd Oct 2008, 15:43
how can someone be that stupid to jeopardize a career so easily?

Dysag
2nd Oct 2008, 15:44
The only good thing about this is they probably wouldn't have got much booze in the Subway restaurant.
All in all, they'd have been better off staying in the strip club.

Avman
2nd Oct 2008, 15:45
Their mugshots certainly don't help their cause :hmm: They look like a right pair of thugs :}

remarkablebean
2nd Oct 2008, 15:57
Just as well they only operate domestic routes, or they wouldn't be allowed back in the country. Subway and strippers - downmarket dudes who need education on a good night out too by all accounts. Although, they might have ordered a 6-incher in the takeout :}

Every career path - not just professional aviators - have their fair share of undesirables. Looks like our batch of same has been augmented by 2.

And as a previous poster stated - imagine if these 2 were FFDO authorized...another lunatic programme that needs consigned to the garbage.

sharkhunter
2nd Oct 2008, 16:33
Just what makes the FFDO program lunatic ???

411A
2nd Oct 2008, 16:41
Just what makes the FFDO program lunatic ???

The possibility that these two JetBlue thugs could participate in same.
I sincerely hope that if the facts conclude, the book gets firmly thrown at these two malcontents...:(

Smilin_Ed
2nd Oct 2008, 18:19
For sure, they'll never get an FFDO in the future.:ouch:

Roadtrip
2nd Oct 2008, 19:17
Or, of course, rather than jump to conclusions based upon a sensational newspaper story, you could wait to see what the facts really were.

Ballymoss
2nd Oct 2008, 19:50
Their mugshots certainly don't help their cause They look like a right pair of thugs

Can't disagree with that! Reason suggests, one should wait for an outcome to this sorry situation before commenting..............sod reason, makes me feel sorry for those well qualified, clean living guys stuggling to find the job they want these days. Strip club to Subway is the giveaway, had it been a limo from the cocktail bar to a 2 star eatery, I could have been persuaded otherwise....a couple of scumbags who deserve all they get:mad:

Rgds
The Moss:ok:

FlynDiver
2nd Oct 2008, 19:57
So why again the attack on the FFDO program? Just because you are an anti-gun that feels everyone should believe what you do?

Airbubba
2nd Oct 2008, 20:01
Admit nothing, deny everything, make counter accusations.:)



JetBlue pilots say cabbie attacked them

A lawyer for one of two JetBlue pilots accused of beating a taxi driver in Fort Lauderdale contends they weren't the aggressors.

_____________________

...Martin and Fort Lauderdale police contend Leopard and Smith -- along with a third, unnamed man -- became belligerent over a $9 fare in the 4000 block of North Ocean Boulevard. Martin pulled over, then fearing for his safety, bailed out of the cab, cops said. Leopard and Smith followed and bludgeoned him before vanishing into the Fort Lauderdale night.

But Howard L. Greitzer, Smith's attorney, said that isn't how things went down.

Instead, Greitzer contends Martin was the aggressor, trying to rip off his passengers, and then pepper spraying them when they refused to pay.

JetBlue pilots say cabbie attacked them | MiamiHerald.com (http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking-news/story/710650.html)

tsgas
2nd Oct 2008, 20:19
Now the Jet Blue crews can relate to pax concerns about being ripped off by the airline with new charges being invented every other week.

flash8
2nd Oct 2008, 20:47
those two boys could be convicted on looks alone.. never mind taste!
lets hope it doesn't get as far as a jury for them!

HarryMann
2nd Oct 2008, 21:18
Instead, Greitzer contends Martin was the aggressor, trying to rip off his passengers, and then pepper spraying them when they refused to pay. Refused to pay $9... that's a crime in itself := Guilty...

The cabbie suffered a concussion, a broken ankle and bruises to his elbow and knee.
A witness confirmed that the victim was repeatedly kicked and punched, and a Subway surveillance camera caught the incident on tape, according to the report.

Doors to Automatic
2nd Oct 2008, 21:21
They allegedly beat up a taxi driver over a 2.50 fare (each) !

What an absolute disgrace. If found guilty they shouldn't be allowed to work for Greyhound Buses never mind Jetblue.

Airbubba
2nd Oct 2008, 21:22
These things happen, here's another random incident:

Airline pilots charged with intoxication; One accused of mooning Alcoa Highway traffic in Friday incident

By Matthew Stewart
of The Daily Times Staff

Two airline pilots were arrested after an incident Friday on Alcoa Highway during which one of the men pulled his shorts down and mooned northbound traffic, according to an Alcoa police report.

Officers responded to a call of an intoxicated subject at El Sazon Mexicano Restaurant, 2650 Alcoa Highway, Alcoa, at 6:31 p.m. Officers received information en route that one of the men became irate with the restaurant's manager after employees refused to serve him more alcoholic drinks, according to the report. The subject also allegedly attempted to start a physical confrontation with management employees.

While approaching the general area, an officer observed Jeffrey Leon Saltis, 43, Pittsburgh, Pa., pulling his shorts down and mooning northbound traffic. Officers also noticed another male subject, later identified as Michael Cody Etzel, 25, Richmond, Va., walking with a female in front of Applebee's. The female was attempting to take pictures of the male subject showing his buttocks to the public, according to the report.

Saltis told officers he was a pilot with United Express, according to the report.

Bill Mishk, a spokesperson for Trans States Airlines, which is affiliated with United Express, said the company can confirm they received notification that two employees were detained by local authorities Friday. Mishk, however, could not for reasons of confidentiality, identify these employees, he said.

The employees were pilots, and they were moved immediately from flight status, said Mishk. Trans States Airlines is currently investigating the matter, he said.

Officers reported both men had a strong odor of an intoxicant upon their persons.

Saltis told officers he was going back to his hotel, and he became "irate and verbally abusive with officers," the report states.

Saltis told officers he had an early morning flight, and he hoped the officers were happy because "50 people's flight would be delayed because of (Officer Dustin Cook, the arresting officer)," according to the report...

Airline pilots charged with intoxication; One accused of mooning Alcoa Highway traffic in Friday incident (http://www.thedailytimes.com/article/20080928/NEWS/309279984)

Great police car video of the arrest and subsequent repartee here:

WBIR.com | Knoxville, TN | Bottoms Up: Alcoa police release video of intoxicated pilots (http://www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=65259&provider=top)

These alcohol incidents happen a lot with airline crews from what I've seen, often not publically reported. The classic defense is to proclaim innocence and immediately go through rehab, in the U.S. it often gives you a shot at getting your job back under the Americans with Disabilities Act. Obviously, a good lawyer can work wonders.

RoyHudd
2nd Oct 2008, 22:39
Who cares? This thread is irrelevant. Pilots or not, what has this to do with the price of fish?

AMEandPPL
2nd Oct 2008, 23:10
Who cares? This thread is irrelevant

I do, for one . . . . . . . . and NO it's not.

My association with my pilot visitors relates primarily to their physical fitness, but the regulations are clear that total fitness is required to exercise the privileges of a professional pilot's licence. Our AME guidance notes make the point that the overall picture includes both mental fitness and social fitness (if that can be defined or assessed). Where appropriate, criminal behaviour or record can be taken into account in determining this.

A professional pilot's job is a position of the greatest responsibility. You need to be FIT to assume that mantle. As this story illustrates perfectly, some are just not.

WhatsaLizad?
3rd Oct 2008, 01:58
My association with my pilot visitors relates primarily to their physical fitness, but the regulations are clear that total fitness is required to exercise the privileges of a professional pilot's licence. Our AME guidance notes make the point that the overall picture includes both mental fitness and social fitness (if that can be defined or assessed). Where appropriate, criminal behaviour or record can be taken into account in determining this.

A professional pilot's job is a position of the greatest responsibility. You need to be FIT to assume that mantle. As this story illustrates perfectly, some are just not.

"As this story illustrates perfectly"? From my experience living in South Florida, the newspaper article is most likely a typical poorly written piece, and no doubt designed for maximum effect. We all know how pathetic initial media reports are regarding aviation accidents, yet in this case, most everyone wants a summary execution without trial. One poster even sneers at the thought of a trial reaching a jury.

I'll be the first one supporting justice if they are found guilty, or even if conclusive evidence is presented in the form of video cameras. Until that occurs, I'll reserve my judgement on these fellow airmen. I doubt a few here even could comprehend the concept of self defense anyways.

AMEandPPL,
Thanks for confirming my suspicions that a small minority of AME's are unprepared, and lack the intellectual capacity to make judgements on the fitness of airman to perform their jobs. Especially those who pass that judgement using newspaper reports.:ugh:

(I don't work, or know anyone at JB either)

Dysag
3rd Oct 2008, 08:11
YouTube - 12 Angry Men - This is how you deal with prejudice. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTDhgR3p12w&feature=related)

chuks
3rd Oct 2008, 10:33
On the face of it I think "AME" has it right, although perhaps he should wait until this case is adjudicated before he breaks cover openly to say what he did. I don't think he's grossly out of line in what he wrote.

We as pilots often overlook the fact that there are things normal folks get away with (staggering around drunk by the side of the road or beating someone up seems to be quite normal nowadays) that can be grounds for losing that precious medical.

For a professional pilot to point out to the cops that being arrested for public intoxication is going to inconvenience his 50 passengers next morning, is this someone with a faulty grasp of reality or not?

I would guess that man's going to have some trouble with the F.A.A. when he tries to get his next Class I medical certificate if he hasn't already got a letter about this incident.

Alcohol abuse is exactly what the Feds are looking for and these guys have made themselves famous, no matter the exact, legal facts.

Remember that "your" medical certificate really belongs to the F.A.A. You just get to hold it for a while but if they want it back...

WhatsaLizad?
3rd Oct 2008, 16:13
Chuks,

My issue with AME's post dealt with the JB pilots. Nothing in that article mentioned alcohol as a factor unlike the other story where alcohol was mentioned.

I also have no problem with an AME considering all fitness issues as he mentioned. I do have a problem with any AME making decisons based on the above article.

GlueBall
3rd Oct 2008, 16:37
Or, of course, rather than jump to conclusions based upon a sensational newspaper story, you could wait to see what the facts really were.

Well, the "fact" is that the mug shots are from the Ft. Lauderdale police department . . . as is the "story" . . . also known as an "arrest warrant," based on probable cause and named witnesses, available in the public domain, not generated by the Miami Herald. :eek:

chuks
3rd Oct 2008, 21:01
It doesn't have to be alcohol or other drugs! I am not a lawyer or an AME but I think it is so that there are many other offences that will result in you having your medical either refused or revoked or else your licence pulled. The obvious logic must be that someone with such a violent and uncontrollable temper that they assault someone might well be potentially unsafe as a pilot.

I remember an incident where a (private) pilot lost it with an extreme case of the lovesick blues. (A local cop hauled him out of his aircraft at gunpoint after he had told everyone in the FBO lobby that he would now take off and end it all by crashing into the middle of downtown Podunk.) I assume that he lost his medical over that; we never saw him around the airport again, anyway.

There's no need to pile on these guys; they probably have trouble enough. On the other hand, I don't feel like painting them as victims of the lying press either. One thing is as bad as the other, isn't it?

AMEandPPL
4th Oct 2008, 23:54
I do have a problem with any AME making decisons based on the above article

Presumably both of them . . . . . actually two incidents/articles have now been cited since this thread started !

OK . . . . . I accept that criticism with humility. It's actually the veracity of press reports that is being called into question here.

Let me make it quite clear that any previous comments of mine regarding pilots' bad behaviour vis-a-vis FITNESS TO BE A PILOT relates only to such bad behaviour as is proven in a court, and is therefore demonstrated BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT.

My apologies to all if my previous simple assumption of that was in anyway unclear or misunderstood.

CityofFlight
5th Oct 2008, 01:53
In my previous life--as a new employee and 24 yrs of age, we were told that our off-hours conduct were grounded in who we were during our working hours and if not prudent, the two were bound to come together. Would we be proud or dishonoured? Stuck with me throughout my career.

We all know these characters as they've been around forever. Their egos exist in this field and they behave like they're coated in Teflon. As a PAX, I want a sober, clear minded professional in the F/D and not someone who would be ashamed to come home to his family for behavior conducted when he thinks no one is looking. :=

Sikorskyfan
5th Oct 2008, 19:35
Coffee, tea or would you like what the guys on the Flight Deck are having?

WhatsaLizad?
6th Oct 2008, 01:25
We're on the same page AME.

Cheers

CityofFlight
6th Oct 2008, 02:43
I'm very interested in the answer to my question....During layovers, does your carrier allow you to frequent strip clubs? How about getting drunk by legal standards and conduct inappropriate to off hrs during a layover?

All of my friends, in both pax and freight cargo here in the states, are required to adhere to certain codes of conduct while flying and during layovers. Are things that different where you work?

Look forward to your replies.

C of F

FlyMD
6th Oct 2008, 11:12
Speaking from personal experience, it would be many a Miami-area strip club to fall on hard times if flight crew were not allowed to attend any more..