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Richard Taylor
2nd Oct 2008, 13:05
Two Fiat Puntos at traffic lights today, identical colour, front one younger model than the older one behind it. The newer one had a slightly different aerodynamic shape (as with most models I guess), I presume that the people at Fiat were seeking to improve the newer model over the old, which set me thinking.

Question is, is there ever a point where you cannot improve upon what has been produced? Is there such a thing as perfection?

If there is, when do you know if or when you have attained "perfection"? Or is it a never-ending goal?

As for the Puntos, well you can make your own minds up whether Fiat consider them "perfect"!

parabellum
2nd Oct 2008, 13:32
The idea that a manufacturer could be identified by the shape of their car is long gone. It went with the wind tunnel, which is why all new cars look the same.

As kids we used to have a competition spotting on coming cars, now? a total waste of time, they all look the same.

Burnt Fishtrousers
2nd Oct 2008, 13:39
A Punto doesnt resemble perfection!!

Look at the E type ...Mk1 flat floor Coupe or Roadster beautiful...Perfection. Then turned into a fat overweight V12....

Audi seem to have got it right. Their cars dont "date" that quickly.A 10year old A6 still looks sharp, but wouldnt call it perfection..

tony draper
2nd Oct 2008, 13:41
Perfection? hmmmm,Fender Stratocaster, Colt's 1873 Single Action revolver 4 3/4 inch barrel.:ok:
hmmm can't think of nowt else :uhoh:

Parapunter
2nd Oct 2008, 13:49
Amen to that. Fender Strat, born in 1947, looks the same in 2008.

er340790
2nd Oct 2008, 13:59
Visually at least, the E-type Jaguar and AC Cobra are as close as we mere mortals are ever going to get to the Gods.

For aeronautical equivalents; probably the Spitfire and the English Electric Lightning.

Thanks. That's improved my morning, that has. :)

Sallyann1234
2nd Oct 2008, 14:15
Spitfire and the English Electric Lightning

Absolutely correct - two wonderful classics that will never look less than perfect.
I would only add Concorde.

Wholigan
2nd Oct 2008, 14:22
when do you know if or when you have attained "perfection"?


Just try the mirror ..............................

;):}

mixture
2nd Oct 2008, 14:45
I presume that the people at Fiat were seeking to improve the newer model over the old

I don't know much about Fiats, so will have to take your word for it.

Therefore, based on the information you provided (i.e. that they were pretty much identical), the more pessimistic answer to your question is that Fiat were probably just refreshing the product range in order to keep the order books ticking over at their dealers !

The idea that a manufacturer could be identified by the shape of their car is long gone. It went with the wind tunnel, which is why all new cars look the same.


Huh ?

I can tell the difference between, for example, a Porsche, Aston Martin, Mercedes and Audi. Can't you ?

Moving down the range, for example, I can pick out a Ford Mondeo amongst anything else.

Ace Rimmer
2nd Oct 2008, 15:46
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...Stratocaster..........drooooolllll

mind you and by the same token Gibson Les Paul.......................

Overdrive
2nd Oct 2008, 17:30
Spitfire and the English Electric Lightning


Absolutely correct - two wonderful classics that will never look less than perfect.
I would only add Concorde.



And also the Mosquito.

tony draper
2nd Oct 2008, 17:40
How about the humble Knife Fork and Spoon? attempts have been made to combine the functions or improve on same but yer basic cutlery has never been bettered.
Apologise to those pruners who still eat with their fingers such as Sunderland folk or the Cousins who still haven't figured them out yet and use them back to front.
:rolleyes:

TopBunk
2nd Oct 2008, 18:06
Just to change the direction for a minute .....Angelina Jolie and Jennifer Anniston (both in body if not in mind)..... Brad Pitt is one lucky fella:ok:

Standard Noise
2nd Oct 2008, 18:18
Mrs N had a Mk1 Punto which we bought second hand. The she traded up to the Mk2 a couple of years later. Personally, I thought the Mk1 looked better, certainly as a 3 door version.

Course then she got ambitious and talked me into buying her an expensive lump of German precision engineering. And we've still got the Punto. And I'm now competing with the church mouse.:{

chiglet
2nd Oct 2008, 19:04
For aeronautical equivalents; probably the Spitfire and the English Electric Lightning

Don't forget the Hawker Hunter and the DeHaviland 106 [especially the 4B]
watp,iktch

Richard Taylor
2nd Oct 2008, 19:20
Of course I was just using the Puntos as an example - I suppose everything ever manufactured has been tweaked in later versions. For the better or not is debatable - depends on what it is I suppose.

Sadly every mirror I've ever looked in has a bloody great crack down the middle...that's at least 158 years' bad luck...:{

kms901
2nd Oct 2008, 20:22
Perfection- Fender Precision Bass. First real Electric Bass, often imitated, never replaced.

And the Gibson 335.

Parapunter
2nd Oct 2008, 20:25
There is in fact some dispute over the provenance of the precision bass. Still a classic though even if it is two strings short of a proper guitar.

smo-kin-hole
2nd Oct 2008, 20:27
Hughes H1 Racer. I saw the replica at Oshkosh before it crashed. Never seen a more stunning plane in my life, although I guess it didn't fly so well.

Also perfect: Vise-grip pliers. Quality has never slipped, works....perfectly.

Oreos: perfect

Miserlou
2nd Oct 2008, 20:37
Chiglet beat me to it. I'd have the Hunter on that list. Lightning is a superb piece kit but doesn't have the aesthetics required to be perfect.

Some aspects of perfection are timelessness and some are performance. One part subjective, one part objective and one part combination of the two.

How's that for a non-answer? I could be a politician.

Wholigan
2nd Oct 2008, 20:38
Don't forget the Hawker Hunter

How could any discerning person ever forget the total and absolute most beautiful aircraft ever built???

http://www.warbirdalley.com/images/hunter-chile.jpg
http://pembrokeshire-pictures.co.uk/raf/pics/hawker_hunter_mk9_0001.jpg

barry lloyd
2nd Oct 2008, 20:48
AK-47 Anyone? 60 years old, hardly changed, and still going strong.

mustpost
2nd Oct 2008, 21:10
Perfection? my old car..


http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj9/mustpost/dino0100336bu1.jpg


yup, that's really my old car - Altabini's Fiat Dino 2000, the one in the filum, had it for 3 years in Ecosse in the 80's. Amazing to drive.
(not me driving here, but evidence supplied upon request.)
Very sadly no more - now worth ""AAAARGHH 0000000"""
Still got log book, yes it was rear-ended in the traffic jam in the film, very prof. repair

:{:{:{:{

(notice how on the Auto-sol they have the quarter-lights forward to cool things down!!)

Fantastic fun!


Edit
Sorry Wholigan, agree with you as well..

mr fish
2nd Oct 2008, 22:55
VAN HALEN-first album, pure electric guitar heaven.:ok:

terrain safe
2nd Oct 2008, 23:40
Don't forget the Caravelle! A beautiful plane with its triangular windows.

parabellum
3rd Oct 2008, 00:11
Mixture - Yes I agree, not so hard to identify the quality cars of today but I was thinking more about the middle range stuff.
As kids we could spot a Bristol, an Alvis, a Citroen, a Triumph Mayflower, an Allard, Bentley and Rolls, (of course!), a Le Francis and several others just by a glimpse of radiator at 200 yards!:ok: