Life in the old girl yet? (S61 merged threads)

[onevan]

Financial news reports:

AP
Sikorsky, Carson to update S-61 helicopters
Tuesday September 30, 1:32 pm ET
Sikorsky, Carson to update S-61 durable helicopter line in service nearly 50 years


STRATFORD, Conn. (AP) -- One of the most durable work horses in helicopter fleets is getting a makeover.
Sikorsky Aircraft Corp., a subsidiary of United Technologies Corp., announced Tuesday an agreement with Carson Helicopters Inc. to modernize the S-61 helicopter, also known as the Sea King.


The S-61 helicopter began flying in 1959, serving in the U.S. Navy, Britain's Royal Navy and other overseas fleets. The more than 1,000 Sea Kings that were produced have flown a combined 3.8 million flight hours, Sikorsky said.

About 620 of the helicopters remain in service in commercial and military markets worldwide.

In the modernization program, the airframe will be extensively refurbished with a new glass cockpit and cargo hook and hoist system. New composite main rotor blades that improve aircraft performance will be used, providing additional lift and speed capabilities.

The upgrades will be done at Sikorsky Aerospace Services in Chase Field, Texas.


Other than Carson which companies are looking at upgraded 61's and for what roles?

[Sikorskyfan]

Carson is the Company that actually does the update; the S-61 composite blade is quite well known as the "Carson Blade". Cougar helicopter out of St John's Newfoundland operates a Carson bladed aircraft and I believe that they did some of the engineering work for the integrated glass cockpit as well?

Anyhow the point is that yes in fact they will be breathing new life into the S-61, and that is great. The S-61 should be universally recognized as the DC-3 of helicopters.

[Bravo73]

And this is what they'll look like from the inside (courtesy of Phil Kemp):

http://inlinethumb05.webshots.com/40452/2007860580044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/39887/2424824210044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/38259/2346903690044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb31.webshots.com/18718/2153424090044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb48.webshots.com/41711/2924557160044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

[unstable load]

That is the best news I have had for a while. I apprenticed on the 61 and you can have the rest of them, I will happily retire off the top of one of them.
Lovely old machine that is desreving of a facelift and upgrade.

[Roofus]

We likes that!! :ok:

[Troglodita]

And this is what they'll look like from the inside (courtesy of Phil Kemp):


Where is Phil these days? - obvious answer is Carson but not necessarily true!

Trog

[Special 25]

Fantastic pictures of a great aircraft. The reason the S-61 is still flying strong after so many years is a tribute to such a great design. It flies beautifully, has excellent flying characteristics and a superb cabin. I really hope that this upgrade proves successful and a few more 61 airframes get an extended life. Give me a Carson 61 instead of an S-92 any day.

I'm also pleased to see the analogue style guages displayed on a digital screen. I hate this modern trend towards moving tapes and linear scales !!

Long live the S-61

[nessboy]

Three Bristow 61s left Shetland last week to the States by ship from Liverpool. I believe they have been sold to Carsons.

[Mr Toad]

Have Carson or Sikorski done anything about the Achilles Heel - the high speed inputs were 50's technology and could let the old girl down.

New blades and cockpit great stuff; long may she fly (hopefully with enough spares!).

[Bravo73]

Where is Phil these days?

No idea, I'm afraid. Phil posted these shots in the 'Rotorheads around the World' thread back in June (page 205).

Here's an external shot:

http://inlinethumb15.webshots.com/40846/2405867030044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

[Troglodita]

Thanks mate,

I'll chase him up from there.

Trog

[Shell Management]

Was PK at Vortex in Vancouver?

[Outwest]

Does anyone know if this new partnership announcement between Sikorsky and Carson will result in an updated RFM supplement?

Although the new blades are fantastic, in the offshore world they really do nothing for payload or increased speed as you are still forced to use the original VNE and Cat A charts.

Whats needed: Revised Cat A graph
Revised OEI climb performance chart
Revised VNE chart

P.S. is it an illusion, or doesn't picture number 2 look like 30 degrees of bank but with the AH showing level?

[krypton_john]

Heh! Nice mockup but the EFIS shows straight and level and the view out the window shows something rather more exciting!

[212man]

We had this discussion when the pictures first appeared - it's an island in a lake. The actual horizon show wings level.

[Sikorskyfan]

For Mr. Toad, I believe that the 24000 series MGB fixed or at least improved the HSS input problem? Great machine and great pictures, I would happily fly my whole family across the country in a well maintained SeaKing, not sure I could say the same about some of the newer plastic wonder machines, (think three engines and real sexy Main Rotor Blades)

[thorpey]

Any idea which ones have gone?

[902Jon]

Never having flown the S61/SeaKing, I am always intrigued by the television cockpit pics showing the co-pilot with his hands on the speed selects during take-off & landing/hovering situations. Anybody enlighten me what this is about?

Do Carson/anyone else have any plans to put a modern, more powerful engine with FADEC into the S61? My understanding is that they have always been underpowered especially when OEI. This together with the Carson glass cockpit would surely make a truly superb modern machine.

[S61-S92]

thorpey


G-BBVA, G-BBHL and G-BGWJ were sold to Carson

G-BGWK remains at Sumburgh in storage,

[Troglodita]

Never having flown the S61/SeaKing, I am always intrigued by the television cockpit pics showing the co-pilot with his hands on the speed selects during take-off & landing/hovering situations. Anybody enlighten me what this is about?



S61 or US manufactured Sikorsky SH3 etc. Seaking - GE Engines with hydromechanical governors.
Prone to Rotor RPM droop so RPM increased from normal cruise figure of 100% for take off/landing/hovering by advancing Speed Select Levers to 104% (? I haven't flown one for yonks so brain may be going). In the event of any malfunction, both SSL's are advanced fully forward which is why NHP keeps hand on levers during these phases of flight.

Westland built Seakings with much more powerful RR Gnome engines controlled by fuel computers (albeit very basic) - much more responsive - no need for SSL advance.

Trog

[heli1]

Phil is now with Vector in Vancouver in a senior management position I believe...hence his pix of the Carson flight deck which was done by Vector.

[unstable load]

Have Carson or Sikorski done anything about the Achilles Heel - the high speed inputs were 50's technology and could let the old girl down.



Mr Toad,
I spoke with a rep from Westland at the airshow in Cape Town and asked him that same question. He told me that the military boxes in the Sea Kings have been upgraded for a while already, so that may well find/have found it's way into the Carson ships.

[Torcher]

The Seakings have modified input shafts with ball bearings instead of the old bronce bushing type. In addition it has ELS with up to 4 hrs running time after MGB lub pressure drop.

Torcher

[Outwest]

The babbitt bearings are not the weak link, as long as you have the ELS.

It is the freewheel units that need TLC to make overhaul.....gentle engagements and minimizing freewheel time all helps.

[Phil Kemp]

Here I am. :ok:

I post here every now and again. :) How are things Trog old chap? Haven't seen you in a year or two. ;)

I am indeed with Vector Aerospace in Vancouver BC, and in fact just spent a very enjoyable week hosting the Sea King symposium here in Vancouver. The symposium proved that the Sea King and S61 is a long way from being gone, and most everyone there was busy planning into the 2020's and beyond. Pretty amazing! Also great to see so many old faces from around the world, some of whom go back to when I first started in the business, on the other side of the world.

We had operators, manufacturers, overhaul shops and suppliers from all over the world here and the level of activity is incredibly high. One of the highlights was Sergei Sikorsky's presentation on the life of his father Igor.

Carson made the announcement here at the symposium, and it will see many of the innovative improvements that Carson has created incorporated into the S61 and Sea King line. There are also stretched versions of the Sea King included in the program, as well as re-engining with the T58-16F, which GE is interested in certifying commercially - extra 250 HP per motor is certainly pretty interesting! Carson has operated the S61R inputs for a while now, and this certainly seems to resolve many of the issues with the N model inputs.

Thanks to everyone that came to the symposium, hope you enjoyed it and found it valuable - I know I did. See you at Sikorsky next year.

Incidentally, the glass cockpit S61 in the pictures is the former British Airways G-BEDI, which I brought over from the UK in 1987 when Croman and Erickson bought them from Aerospatiale!




http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/41568/2587560760044950357S600x600Q85.jpg//

And here is a picture of downtown Vancouver and Harbour taken from the self same S61 whilst heading directly to my house on Bowen Island! :)



http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/41579/1226734993044950357S600x600Q85.jpg


First set of customer blades supplied by Carson when I was with VIH/Western.






http://inlinethumb26.webshots.com/43353/1228579999044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

And the second customer set, installed on the FIRST commercial S61 ever built and the prototype used for certification! And she is still going strong - currently in Angola!

[Outwest]

Nice shots Phil and all good news.

Do you have any info about an RFM supplement with a revised Cat A WAT chart?

[Troglodita]

Phil,

Good to hear you are still surviving in the Wild West.

With all this good stuff happening to the old beast I wonder if it's worth trying to renew my type rating?

I suddenly realised that it is 18 years since I last flew in one (with Al Streeter) - you could tell it was us up front 'cos the tail wheel wasn't touching the deck during taxi!

Trog

[RVDT]

"And next year we will fit shoulder harnesses, remove the church pews and fit seats" :ok:

[Phil Kemp]

One that might bring back memories for many people here. From late 2003, in Kerteh, Malaysia.

I was in Kerteh at the beginning, and by chance just happened to be there just before the end of the S61 days. In the last year I have seen all of the ex-MHS fleet in places as diverse as Ottawa, Korea and our hangar here in Vancouver.

http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/40733/1119859055044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

[HOGE]

Any helicopter you walk up steps to get on, have room to eat your dinner in the cockpit, and can open a window to hang your arm out in flight gets my vote. Slow, underpowered, and never misbehaved. I'd love to fly one again.:ok:

[Phil Kemp]

One of the more recent arrivals here in North America is the former G-BCLC, which I, and apparently a few others on here, started out washing and loading baggage on in Sumburgh in the 1970's, when she still had that new helicopter smell. I saw her regularly in Sumburgh until very recently. Anyway, she is now fighting fires for a living and hopefully enjoying her new life.

http://inlinethumb20.webshots.com/41619/2043058740044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb54.webshots.com/14581/2284704650044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

And now, just in time for the holidays, she is getting a facelift and a little weight reduction!

http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/42537/2061132650044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/42545/2436365510044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/3549/2275496190044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb46.webshots.com/39789/2203311360044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

What do you think some of the oldtimers would ever have made of that! :)

[leading edge]

PK

I take it from the photos that old "Elsie" is now shortened for her new career? Looking at the old log book, I have a few hours in her over the North Sea. Good to see her still flying and earning money for someone.

[Phil Kemp]

Those pictures were taken this afternoon in our shop in Langley, BC. I am going to buy myself a scanner for Christmas, and then I can pull out some of the thousands of photos from way back. :cool:

[verticalhold]

Phil;

I was in Kerteh in the early '90s and its nice to see the apron still hasn't dried out!

Many happy memories of Pakhar Wongs and the D Day bar.

VH

[jonnyloove]

Its discusting what the do to the old girls by chopping them they should be shot for it. If they want that they should buy retired Seakings there are a few kicking about.

:}

[Tail-take-off]

Very pleased to see Ex G-BCLC getting a new lease of life. I flew her from time to time when she was the SAR back up at Sumburgh in the 90s.

Have any of the other recently sold Bristow S-61s come your way? Three more have recently been sold to the USA:

G-BBHL (sn61712) now N364HH
G-BBVA (sn 61718) now N364FH
G-BGWJ (sn 61819) now N364DZ

If so will they get the same treatment?

[unstable load]

Its discusting what the do to the old girls by chopping them they should be shot for it.


As much as I would like to see the old girls left as original, I do agree with what is happening if it's to keep the ships viable for commercial operations rather than them going to the breaker's yards as washed out has-beens.

[Phil Kemp]

I am not sure what is going on with the 3 most recent ships that Carson purchased -although there is a good likelihood they will stay as conventional long S61's though. The activities taking place in the pictures above are at Vector Aerospace (the old AcroHelipro) in Langley, B.C., and is being shortened under our own STC.

Demand has always remained high for the old S61 and doesn't appear to be slowing. Add some Carson blades to the aircraft, maybe a rewire and glass cockpit and you are in business for some time to come!

Interestingly, one of the parts of the Sea King upgrade proposal involves lengthening the airframe to accomodate the longer engines and to improve the C of G of the machine.

[HAL9000]

Is the Carson S-61/Sea King upgrade an option for SAR-H or has the headlong rush to waste £3-5B of UK taxpayers' money gained too much momentum to allow an injection of common sense?

Surely this kind of solution carries far less risk than a program involving totally new and unproven aircraft types (cf the pantomime that is the 139 on the south coast).

HAL

[Brilliant Stuff]

Phenomenal pictures there Phil.

Amazing what they do to these Queens.

[BedakSrewet]

I understand that x years ago, major S61 operators were already considering to re-engine with the Turbomeca Makila engine however, this potential major improvement in power had to be abandonded when the operators committee discovered that the Makila turns the other way around * ) as compared to the CT58.....

True or False ?

* ) Likewise the British made piston engines -such as the Gypsy Major / Queen - turns counter clockwise ( viewed from the rear ) while the US made Lycoming and Continental engines turn clockwise.

Vive la difference......:hmm:

[Fareastdriver]

False. Not that it makes much difference with a free turbine as the engine is not directly connected to the power turbine that drives the transmission.
British and American piston engines both turn the same way. It depends on how you define the front. America considers that the back of the engine is where the clutch/gearbox/propellor are mounted so the front ends up on the pilot's lap. On a multi-row USA radial No 1 cylinder is nearest the bulkhead. The British regard the front of the engine as being the first bit to arrive at the scene of the crash so No1 cylinder is the first row in the draught. It must have been interesting sorting out the Whirlwind with Wrights or Alvis.

[victor papa]

As far as I know it is true that the Makila was considered for the 61 in the eighties I believe. The problem however was the gearbox's ability to cope with the drastic increase in power of the makila. We had a incident on a 61 were it landed short and sustained some damage after an engine failure. The incorrect engine was pulled to gnd and when it was pushed forward to regain at least 1 engine, the freewheel unit failed under the load so she ended with a engine failure and a dead freewheel. As is, I doubt whether the gearbox will survive long with a Makila driving it. From what I understood it was abandoned due to the cost involved in redesigning and manufacturing a new gearbox. It does bring the previous 92 gearbox isues to the fore.

I guess with the Makila's and a improoved gearbox, one will have to reevaluate the tail rotor's capability to counter the increased torque? Then the hydraulics and, and , and hence we have the 92 I guess?

[3D CAM]

Phil.
Great pictures of "Limping Charlie", keep them coming. Look after the old girls, they've had a hard life.:ok:
Sumburgh seems such a long time ago!:D
3D

[500 Fan]

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn274/Bolkow1/IMG_0586.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn274/Bolkow1/IMG_0588.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn274/Bolkow1/IMG_0589.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn274/Bolkow1/IMG_0595.jpg

Here are a few photos of EI-SAR taken on the 9th of November. She was doing some winch training with the Galway Bay Inshore Lifeboat. Apologies for the last photo. I hit the wrong button and it came out in B&W.

EI-SAR is unique in that it is the only Japanese-built S-61N in the world. Capt. Derek Nequest reckoned it was the "best-built -61 in the world"! Apparently Mitsubishi were going to set up an S-61N production line for the Asian market. This helicopter was built as a demonstrator in anticipation of a healthy demand. The orders were not forthcoming and this was the only one built by Mitsubishi in the end.

The CHC S-61N fleet underwent an upgrade in the last few years in line with the demands of a renewed contract with the Irish Coastguard. As well as a new paint job, various improvements have been made to the machines, including the addition of a second, back-up, winch. If you look closely you can see it clamped onto the body of the original winch. This is the first Irish S-61N I have seen with this fit.

500 Fan.

[Phil Kemp]

On the build side now! I can see a whole bunch of jobs that have become infinitely more accessible in the current configuration.

http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/37642/2938850880044950357S600x600Q85.jpg



http://inlinethumb48.webshots.com/33071/2660201040044950357S600x600Q85.jpg


http://inlinethumb23.webshots.com/40790/2843896260044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

[per ulv]

What is the serialnumber? 61746?

[500 Fan]

The C/N for EI-SAR is 61143. Mitsubishi gave it the C/N of M61-001.

500 Fan.

[rotorhead350]

ahhhhhhh, good to see Ray Mymryk is still working his magic. How long's he been there Phil? last i saw him he was still with VIH.............

[per ulv]

143 was the first 61N - rebuilt from a 61L. It is 1962 vintage if I remember correctly.

[Tail-take-off]

from GINFO Search Results | Aircraft Register | Safety Regulation (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=AYOM)


Mark:G-AYOM
Current Reg. Date:04/03/1998
Previous ID:N4585
De-Reg. Date:26/06/1998
Status de-registered
To:REPUBLIC OF IRELAND
Reason:Transferred to another country or authority
Aircraft Details

Manufacturer:SIKORSKY AIRCRAFT
Type:SIKORSKY S-61N
Serial No.:61143
ICAO 24 bit aircraft address:
Popular Name:SEA KING
Generic Name:S61
Aircraft Class:HELICOPTER
EASA Category:CS-29: Large Rotorcraft
Engines:2: 2 x GENERAL ELECTRIC CO CT58-140-1
MTOW:9299kg
Total Hours:27310 at 31/12/1996
Year Built:1962


The manufacturer is clearly stated as SIKORSKY AIRCRAFT not Mitsubishi. It also has the lowest serial number of any S61 that has been on the UK register the next is 61220 (G-ASNL) built 1963.

Hope this helps

[heli1]

I suspect the confusion over 61143 arises from the fact that it was initially sent to Japan as a demonstrator etc and registered JA9506 before changing owners .

[Phil Kemp]

61143 was definitely built by Mitsubishi as part of a grander agreement that never materialised. She was issued both a Sikorsky and Mitsubishi serial number, and continues to operate under the Sikorsky S/No.

The oldest commercial S61 is 61032 operated by VIH. She was the certification prototype and is still flying - currently in Angola.

[NorthSeaTiger]

Is the 61 that turned over on the Pan-Am building still flying ? And what 61 has the highest hours ? G-INFO states that that G-BEIC had 43,000 hrs in 2000 !! Is she still flying ?

NST

[bb in ca]

I'm pretty sure G-BEIC was serial number 61222 and it's still flying the Vancouver Victoria scheduled run for Helijet although owned by Coulson. I was with it when it broke 46,000 hours (i think) 1 1/2 years ago.

[Sailor Vee]

I suspect the confusion over 61143 arises from the fact that it was initially sent to Japan as a demonstrator It was initially sent over 'in bits' and was 'rebuilt' in Japan using a jig from Sikorsky, it ended up as being .5 of a centimeter longer than a 'standard' 61!. If you'd ever talked to an Irish SAR driver it was generally not liked as it used about 3 to 4 % more torque for any flight profile than any of the others, (and has still got the Mk 1 speed selects, I still have the indents on my thumbs to prove that!).

I guess that EI-GCE was across in Norway for the mods as SAR will be the 'spare' 501 machine, and would not normally be based in Shannon.

[Decks]

How's it going bud....? Online in NN with Rubbertoe at the mo and EISAR is just fine and we have the stigmata to prove it!!! 20.6 hrs ops in the last week.... you're sorely missed!!!
How are the sandcastles in the sky...??? Hi to G.

[Phil Kemp]

I had meant to post some updated pictures before Christmas, when the skins were back on - but my schedule intruded on many things I had planned on doing. So here's the latest pictures, and first flight is scheduled for Tuesday!

http://inlinethumb36.webshots.com/42979/2827174250044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

New skins in the final stage of installation.

http://inlinethumb51.webshots.com/18034/2274070450044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

New size!


http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/40965/2995338650044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

Back together again, back from paint and ready to fly.

http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/43643/2448484870044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

Final completion.

http://inlinethumb57.webshots.com/25080/2573163170044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

No cargo door!

http://inlinethumb49.webshots.com/22832/2045313970044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

Finished project.

http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/1292/2811324590044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

Lots in the hangar right now. A-star rebuilds, 412's and more S61's!

http://inlinethumb57.webshots.com/38456/2307345120044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

Ready to fly - Tuesday is it!

Had great fun at the HAI, working with Carson to demonstrate the upgraded S61. Nice to see all the identifiable PPRuNers that were there, plus all the subversive, secretive members as well! :8

[zalt]

Copter bases may go in rescue plan

By Don Lavery


Irish Independent, Sunday March 01 2009

Some of the four helicopter rescue bases used by the Irish Coast Guard could be closed, or relocated, under a €200m plan being considered by the Department of Transport.

The department currently uses helicopter firm CHC Ireland to provide 24/7 search and rescue (SAR) services at Dublin, Shannon, Waterford, and Sligo, where giant Sikorsky S-61N helicopters are each capable of rescuing up to 15 survivors 200 miles off our coast.

But in a 10-year strategy, the department is seeking a new SAR supplier for the decade from 2012 up until 2022.

Tender documents show that the Coast Guard is seeking a successor contract, to include aircrew, maintenance personnel and support services and facilities to provide a broadly similar level of service.

However, it adds that this "may involve a change of current bases, availability or number of aircraft, using more modern helicopters with a national search and rescue role".

This is understood to be a reference to the new breed of fast and more capable helicopters now being used for search and rescue, compared to the S-61 currently in use, whose design dates back 50 years.

Civil contractors in the UK are now using ultra-modern helicopters such as the Sikorsky S-92.

A department spokeswoman said no definite decision had been made on changing or reducing the number of bases being used by the service, and this could depend on what response the tenders brought in.

The SAR service that is operated by the department costs around €25m a year, with a recent three-year contract for CHC Ireland reckoned to be worth €53m to the company.

- Don Lavery

[[email protected]]

Interesting that the contract runs from 2012, just like the UK one! Some economies of scale available here, surely.

[Brilliant Stuff]

Lovely pictures.

Where is it going? Or who owns it? Just curious because of the paint job.

[dg93]

Hi Phil
I never thought for one minute that when I first saw LC at Sumburgh back in 1975 that I should see her modified in such a dramatic way.
Keep them flying they are the best.

[Phil Kemp]

I grew up with all these helicopters flying in the backyard, but didn't get to work around them until 1976! :uhoh:

The former LC is now proudly owned by Billings Flying Service, of Billings, Montana and she will most likely be flying on fires again this year. The paint scheme is convenient because it was already there! Just had to be adjusted for the major piece of airframe that was removed. Also got the former G-BBVB in as well. I was in Kuala Trengganu when she showed up, after seeing her for a long time on the North Sea.

[Taxidriver009]

Another thread indicate they are keeping two 61's in Thailand. Amazing how the "rules" can be adjusted, to avoid huge capital required to replace "aging" airframes.

I'm all for new technology, but we are aware of upgrades available and one must wonder what the "cash strapped" industry would opt for, S92, 225, 139 or Carson 61? If I may mention all in one sentence....

Maybe it is difficult to make fair judgement without having hard data to compare "fully upgraded" 61 with aforementioned? (MTOM, Vne etc.)

Despite the obvious resistance from the manufacturers trying to flog their new hardware, has anyone ever done a cost analysis of such an option? Result?

[unstable load]

Taxidriver009,

The only rules that were changed were the terms of the contract with the client, and changed by the client as is their privilege.
They elected to keep on the 2 S61's until they have completed the construction of their new hangar facility further North in the country when they will be replaced with C++'s as per the original contract spec.

Sorry to disappoint, but nothing subversive going on there. :zzz:

[Phil Kemp]

http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/44427/2027368960044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

Before - 29 October 2008.

http://inlinethumb35.webshots.com/26786/2305905820044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

After - first flight 3 March 2009.

http://inlinethumb24.webshots.com/42455/2391930220044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

Successful first flight. Back to Montana tomorrow. On budget, 2 weeks ahead of schedule! :ok:

And I'm off to Hawaii! ;)

[thepross]

No wonder it is hard getting flights home with all you tourists inbound...

[3D CAM]

Phil,
Lovely job!:ok:
Hawaii?? Is that the little island next to Unst?:)
3D

[TipCap]

It is great to see LC flying again. I flew her - both Offshore and SAR operations. The first S61N I flew was in 1973 and was G-AZRF (now deceased I think) and G-AZDC (a combination of a Mk 1 and 2, a re-build. We used to call it a Mk 1 and 1/2). I have flown most, if not all of the Bristow S61N's in my time and accumulated a few hours on S61N's :ok:

Jeez, I just noticed the date I joined PPRUNE. How time flies :)

[Phil Kemp]

G-AZRF was most recently ZS-HSZ with CHC Africa, which she had been since being sold to Court as part of the Croman/Erickson purchased from Aerospatiale in 1987. As far as I am aware she is still with CHC, but they were making fleet adjustments and she may have been shipped to Canada - maybe someone operating her knows the story?

G-AZDC was operated for a short time by Erickson as a construction and fire-fighting machine, then sold to Huisson Aviation and converted to a short S61N. She just returned to service after being damaged in a hard landing in Peru last year. This is a picture of N91158 (AZDC) on the Apple fire in Elk Creek, Oregon in 2002. There were 6 short S61's there on one helibase at one point!

http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/44165/2555928630044950357S600x600Q85.jpg

[AS332L1]

ZS-HSZ was last operated by CHC in the Ivory Coast as UNO465 before being shipped to Tacoma via Antwerp and subsequent resale

[ken knight]

Hi Phil, Great to hear that G-AZDC is still flying. I was one of the guys that took delivery of it when she arrived at Redhill from Italy in early 1971. This was a great job for us as she had crashed on a rig off Rimini? and the Italians had chopped off the tailcone to get it off the rig. The fuselage arrived on a lowloader from Dover with half the Ebglish countryside hanging on her and all the other "bits" came in several wooden crates.
Once it was rebuilt it went to Aberdeen early 72 and flew alongside
G-AZNE. G-AZRF was also one of the ships we had in Aberdeen early 70's.

[Snarlie]

Ah yes, I remember it well. I have many happy hours trundling up the 051 radial to the Beryl A and then into Sumburgh and back. Also good to hear Ken Knight is still around - he should be given some kind of award for virtually single handedly mastering the Chadwick vibration kit and rendering the S61 fleet and types that followed, a joy to fly.

[exlatccatsa]

"Hawaii?? Is that the little island next to Unst?
3D "

3D CAM I think you're confusing Hawaii with Hascosay!!

Easy mistake to make with its lovely sandy beaches!!

[leading edge]

Ken the flash....good to have you on here. You were (probably still are) a master at vibes and we spend many an air test together.

I remember her arriving on that truck in Redhill. She went into Hangar 5 and came out only after those infamous trenches were dug. We used to go and have tea and sandwiches in the tea room in H5, I think it was old George Tippett who used to look after the tea machine (it was all free then)

I also spent many years on G-AZDC as 53A. She was kitted out in 1981 as the trial aircraft for MADGE....
I seem to remember that in order to get good HF reception on AZDC it was better to turn off the #1 AC Gen when transmitting to old grumpy Jim in the Radio Room in Dyce!

Great to see her still working as well as hopefully AZRF still being around.

[Tail-take-off]

Before:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z74/Tail-take-off/azdcbefore.jpg
After:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040522055610/http://209.196.171.35/images/s61_trench_big.jpg
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z74/Tail-take-off/azdcafter.jpg

[exlatccatsa]

Its great to see so much interest in the S61 still and great to see they sill have a life post North Sea.
We had GBIMU arrive in Aberdeen today to join GBGWK who test flew yesterday, and the rotorless EI reg still in the Bristows hanger.. which hasn't been seen outside for a while.
Does anyone know what plans are or them?

[TipCap]

Thanks, Phil, for the updates on RF and DC. Glad to see the old airframes still flying. I guess nothing came of the Augusta AS61N Silver programme.

Yes I remember the Beryl - Sumburgh double shuttle and if you were really you got a slip crew at Sumburgh and flew back to Aberdeen in the Skyways (I think) DC3.

I remember MADGE too. Frightened me f**tless on several occasions :eek:

[Outwest]

I see Sikorsky has not given up on the old girl yet either.

https://ww2.sikorsky.com/dotnet/sks2009/index.html


I have been told that the new style DC digital T5 gages are in short supply. Have been quoted $17,000 and 1 year delivery time. Any truth to that?

[Hell Man]

In these semi credit crunch days those unable to afford a new corporate AW139 might take a peek at Coulson's VIP S61's - I mean you could do your business and participate in historic aircraft shows with the same ship!

http://flightdisplay.com/photos/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=396&g2_serialNumber=2

In admiration of those still keeping the 61 on life support.

[HeliTester]

VIP S-61.......Nice, very nice. I believe that the last four US Presidents preferred to fly the VH-3 even after the VH-60 was introduced back in 1988.

[Decu Total]

This could very well be the same airframe that crashed on the Pan Am building New York. Last heard she was fitted out as a VIP ship, operating somewhere in America.

[Hell Man]

Hey HeliTester Dude!

Well I'm not overly surprised that the 61 wins out over the 60 and I'm pretty sure the main reason in the 61s stand up cabin but .. the 61 really is getting a bit long in the tooth. Noise, vibration and hands over the throttles during take off and landing all come to mind!

Back in the 60s I'm sure this bird was the bees knees but now it should proabably be consigned to the museum.

http://www.aerofiles.com/sik-s61n.jpg

Edit: In response to Decu Total's post (where do these names come from!!!)

You could be right Decu. With all due respect to the likes of Coulson, Wiggins and others who reconfigure 61s ... I am always just a little concerned coz most of the hardware in the NW and BC is ... arrgghh!!!! ... ex-logging :oh: inventory!

[HeliTester]

Hell Man,

Seems like the US Government disagrees with your take that the S-61 should be relegated to a museum!

www.defencetalk.com/us-to-purchase-s-61t-helicopters-for-use-in-afghanistan-24368/ (http://www.defencetalk.com/us-to-purchase-s-61t-helicopters-for-use-in-afghanistan-24368/)

[Hell Man]

Its an impressive new lease of life for the S61 but ... this is where they'll eventually end up:

http://politicalvindication.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/reagan-museum-2009-020_480x360.jpg

HM :}

[Wirbelsturm]

A thing of beauty relegated to a side show attraction! *sniff*

Many a happy hour at the controls of such a beastie ...... thousands of unhappy ones as it went wrong.. again! :E

[wiisp]

We still got 2 40.000+ hrs S-61 flying daily operations.. :ok:

Fly safe..

[Colibri49]

Hell Man,

Well I'm not overly surprised that the 61 wins out over the 60 and I'm pretty sure the main reason in the 61s stand up cabin but .. the 61 really is getting a bit long in the tooth. Noise, vibration and hands over the throttles during take off and landing all come to mind!

Back in the 60s I'm sure this bird was the bees knees but now it should proabably be consigned to the museum.

How can you say such things? I flew the old "sticky bun" for 25 years and over 12000 hours and it's probably the best large helicopter airframe of all time. The engines and mechanical bits are pretty damned reliable too.

I've been flying the EC225 for a few years now and love the power, speed, range, load carrying and panoramic glass panel with brilliant automation. But I'll go to my grave swearing the old bus was THE classic of its time and should have been upgraded.

The EC225 is a bit cramped for most purposes and as for the S92.........well, the less said the better.

[Hell Man]

I'm having a poke at the 61 because she's been around sooo long but make no doubt about it ... along with the Bell UH1 she's the 'Dakota' of the helo world and I love her to bits!

The DoD contract highlighted by HeliTester for approx. 100 S61T's is going to be a fantastic re-birth for this iconic bird. With composite blades and glass cockpit she'll offer some real improvements over the N model.

But how about other technical improvements. Let's hear from the techies how Sikorsky can vamp up the T model to reduce noise, vibration and fuel consumption while increasing speed (load lifting performance already achieved through the new blades so I understand).

http://www.carsonhelicopters.com/cms/images/___ID117337.jpg

S61 Glass Cockpit

[HeliTester]

Suppose the S-61T modernization program, which includes better performing composite main rotor blades, glass cockpit, modular wiring harness, etc., was applied to the commercial version S-61N. And then suppose that upgrade was expanded to include new engines. Could that machine compete with the EC225/S92?

[Hell Man]

Anyone with any further updates regarding the DoD contract for the S61T in Afghanistan?

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t84/heavyd_72/DSC01689.jpg

Am wondering why this (presumably IFR equipped) Carson 61 is in the 'experimental' category?

HM

[surfcopter]

Hello to all.

I`ve been looking for information about S-61 retrofit, but is dificult to find any details.

Does anyone know anything about its IFR rating?. I`ve seen some pictures that the helicopter was cut two meters so far, behind the cockpit, but I dont know if that cut is mandatory in every retrofit. In that case, I think, the cargo door with the external winch goes to the rear part.

May be, some of you has flown the new S-61 with fiber blades, glass cockpit and so on. I`d like to know your feelings in flight and if her personality still remains.

Thanks and good flights.

[bandit19]

Seems Afghanistan is where the 61's and 214ST's have come to finish out their lives. Since new aircraft are too expensive and MI's are off limits to many contracts I expect the 'ol girl to be slogging along for quite some time...(there is still a DC3 running around the skies). Apparently the government is fond of museum pieces. It also makes sense from a contracting perspective since it is paid by the blade hour. If you have to go everywhere at 90kts and refuel constantly...cha ching! The poor girl is like a giant B206 in the summer here. It's nice to look at all the same.

[jonnyloove]

There is quite a few types across here at the moment lots off Bell 212,412's

The S-61T's are doing well. We see them everyday and the fit inside is very sexy indeed. Currently there used on the US Embassy contract bassed at Kabul airport and out stations they have the standard long S-61N airframe the disscusting cut and shut job converstion Shortsky's.

The pilot and crew love them they are rated as good if not better than the S-92 and are much more forgiving from a pilot and crewmans point of view.

Also across here Dyn Corp have S-61N's as well as Xe logistics with there SA-330J's and S-61N.

It is very aparent that the S-61 maybe finished with Oil & Gas work sadly but they have a very growing future hear in Afghanistan and other Hostile enviroments

[Hell Man]

September 20, 2010

Sikorsky Aerospace Services today announced the U.S. State Department has ordered 11 additional upgraded S-61TM utility helicopters for use in Iraq and Afghanistan. Sikorsky Aerospace Services (SAS) is the aftermarket division of Sikorsky Aircraft Corp., a subsidiary of United Technologies Corp. (NYSE:UTX).

Earlier this year, the State Department entered into a five-year indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity (IDIQ) contract for up to 110 upgraded S-61 aircraft for passenger and cargo transport missions in support of its worldwide operations. Under the IDIQ agreement, the first four aircraft purchased in February are currently in completion and are scheduled for deployment in Afghanistan this fall.


http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_S-61T_lg.jpg

[Brilliant Stuff]

Looks pretty.

[widgeon]

Are they basically remanufacturing the 61 that were in the bone yard ?. I know quite a lot had been stripped of their dynamic components , will they be manufacturing new 24000 series MGB or does this model use the 22000 series boxes.
Out of interest does any one know the serial number of the last production S61 ?.
They show 61-822 delivered to UK Coast guard in 1987 is there a later one ?.( I am sure there are westland versions that were delivered later)
here sikorsky s-61 H-3 - Helicopter Database (http://www.helis.com/database/model/53/)

[Bladestrike]

Good ole girl, have over 3000 hours offshore Eastern Canada in 61s, most of that hand flying approaches to mins with no autopilot, but she was stable and loved every minute of it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/darcyhoover/Offshore%20Nova%20Scotia/CHCOps01.jpg

not me flying here....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/darcyhoover/Offshore%20Nova%20Scotia/Saipem700003.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/darcyhoover/Offshore%20Nova%20Scotia/CHCOps35.jpg

[ScotiaQ]

The old girl is not known as "The Queen of the Skies" for nothing !!

Long may she live.:ok:

[Outwest]

Out of interest does any one know the serial number of the last production S61 ?.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the last S61N manufactured in Connecticut was C-GROL. Delivered to Okanagan Helicopters for a Shell contract on the east coast of Canada in, I believe, 1984.

I flew it in 1989, but never recorded the serial number so can't say what that was.

[Yellow & Blue Baron]

It is a classical helicopter. Can an S61 pilot tell me why it is required for one of the pilots to hold the power controls during take off and landing?

Are there any other strange things that S61 pilots must do to keep this machine flying?

YBB

[widgeon]

Thanks outwest.

Canadian historical register shows this as 61-823 , deleted from register by Canadian in 2003.Owned by Okanagan , Universal , Associated and Canadian.

Any one know of a later serial number ?.

After Review of US reg I think this is the last few

61-822 1987 HM Coastguard G-BPWB : ex EI-BHO, then G-BPWB, EI-BHO, to G-BPWB. Owned and maintained by Bristow Helicopters on behalf of HM Coastguard. In 2003 was based at Portland. Carries the name 'Portland Castle'.
61-823 Okanagan C-GSAB
61-824 Carson N408SC
61-826 siller N15456
61-827 Croman N616CK

If any one is interested I have updated the database I referenced earlier with info from Canadian and US current registrations , PM me if you would like a copy in Excel it covers over half the serial numbers.

[bolkow]

I was about to say that I understood EI-BLY, ex Irish Helicopters was the last off the production line, but it may well be their ex sister ship EIBHO and its my memory that is fading.I do remember being told that one of those two was the last production aircraft that I believe came off the line in 1979?

[Epiphany]

Y and B,

Because they are hanging on to the crucifix that hangs up in the quadrant and willing it the beast to fly.

Really though because the Nr has to be adjusted manually with ssl's during take off and landing.

Other strange things are:

Entering the 61 from the back steps and walking 1.5 km to the cockpit, hanging your jacket in the wardrobe behind the seat, bleeding the engine during start from a little button on the cyclic that didn't always work (which caused considerable excitement), being able to smoke a cigarette out of view of all the passengers and blow the smoke discretely out of the huge sliding side window and nub it in the same place, turning the ferocious fuel burning heater on in the summer to annoy anyone on board that you didn't like, checking the gear was up by looking out of the window.....the list goes on.

A beautiful machine that I was privileged to spend some time in.

[Hell Man]

... being able to smoke a cigarette out of view of all the passengers and blow the smoke discretely out of the huge sliding side window and nub it in the same place,


Now that's my kinda pilot! :ok:

HM

[Bladestrike]

I think I flew ROL in Baku in 2000 or so. Not sure where it went after that. I was told C-GSAB (or perhaps C-FOKP - burnt up in a mishap in the states) was one of the last off the production line.

[Senior Pilot]

Or for the non smokers among us: being able to smell the matches from the back row of the cabin before they were used, and thus amazing the pax by getting on the PA and reminding them it was a non smoking flight, before the match was struck :p

Plenty of room to stow the lunches provided by the NS platforms, too :ok:

[Outwest]

being able to smell the matches from the back row of the cabin

or the farts :ooh:

[Outwest]

I think I flew ROL in Baku in 2000 or so. Not sure where it went after that. I was told C-GSAB (or perhaps C-FOKP - burnt up in a mishap in the states) was one of the last off the production line.

From Widgeon's list it looks like ROL was re-registered as SAB later in life. OKP was a very old machine, not a mark 1 but as Pierre used to call it "a Mark 1 and a half"

[Bladestrike]

Very cool, I think I flew the same bird under different registration and was never the wiser!

[thepross]

Bladestrike,

What structure did you fly into?:):)

[Bladestrike]

Are you referring to my moniker? Just thought it sounded cool.

[SICKorSKI]

Outwest,
I think OKB (61266) was the Mark 1.5
OKP was quite a bit newer.
The FAA TC data sheet explains the S/N spilts.
Should n't you be busy flying C and A anyways???
:)

[Hell Man]

S61T

While we've managed to establish that the State Dept. has signed an order earlier this year for 100+ S61T's in an IDIQ for Afghanistan - there remains uncertainty as to how this production is being run.

I've got members of the Coulson family saying they're involved in supplying blades - others saying its a JV with Carson (see below) and still others who describe the 'T' model as a special order production and not the re-introduction of the 61 into production (which is understandable).

Taken from a US helo formum (but not quite as well managed as PPRuNe) :ok::

You are obviously uninformed. Carson had their new S61T on display at the Sea King symposium a couple of weeks ago with much interest and possible orders. Carson and Sikorsky have teamed up to produce the upgraded S61T, which will basically come out of the factory as a new S61, with all the upgrades in horsepower, avionics, etc. I think I heard they have at least 12 orders in progress right now. I suspect some of these are for the state department and will go to Afghanistan.

The official press release from Sikorsky is here: U.S. State Department Orders 11 More Upgraded S-61? Helicopters for Use in Iraq & Afghanistan (http://www.sikorsky.com/About+Sikorsky/News/Press+Details?pressvcmid=aa10352ee112b210VgnVCM1000004f62529 fRCRD) and btw, you should take a look at their new home page with fancy music and introductions by Sikorsky staff: Home (http://www.sikorsky.com/Index)

Would be good to receive some 'on the ground' info about this op (supposedly run by DynCorp). Any news about the 'T' in Afghanistan would be appreciated and the projected timeline as to when they expect to phase in the balance of 90 units.

Am thinking of putting my son 'Hell Boy' in for a season on this job!

HM

Additional view of the new S61:

http://www.carsonhelicopters.com/cms/images/image_ID293866.jpg

[Outwest]

Outwest,
I think OKB (61266) was the Mark 1.5
OKP was quite a bit newer.
The FAA TC data sheet explains the S/N spilts.
Should n't you be busy flying C and A anyways???


Never flew OKB that I know of, but it was definitely OKP that Pierre used to refer to as a Mark 1 and a half. OKP was the only 61 I ever flew that had the tail wheel lock handle in the lower center console.

Yes, still on C and A for a few more months.....wishing I was on T & A though ;)

[jodtalingchan]

Outwest, or you might go after A, C somewhere else after they finish their jobs here.:ok:

[Outwest]

Outwest, or you might go after A, C somewhere else after they finish their jobs here.

Welcome to PPRuNe Jod.....and yes you might be right ;)

[widgeon]

New S-61T Helos for the US State Department (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/New-S-61T-Helos-for-the-US-State-Department-06198/)

This article give a bit more meat to the story , currently there are about 11 S-61 registered to a blackwater company ( EP aviation ), not known if these are currently in service or undergoing the upgrade . Would the transmission take the extra power from a T58-16 ?.

[Outwest]

Would the transmission take the extra power from a T58-16 ?.

From what I can see it looks like the -16a is 1870hp, so that is quite a jump for sure. The transmission should not be a problem, but the inputs might be. I am assuming they would use the R model roller bearing inputs.

So are all S61T's shorts? All the pics I have seen are of H3 (Sea King) airframes.

[Hell Man]

Widgeon thanks for this, I've actually come to discover that the S61T is a JV between Sikorsky and Carsons and am gonna be contacting the latter this week to pull up some more info.

Originally it was stated that DynCorp were running this op in Afghanistan but now there is mention of Blackwater - have strong connections with DC but not with BW!

Re: fuse length - all the photos so far are showing the short fuse but I think that both long and short are being produced.

Hope to have some solid info on the entire program this week.

HM

[unstable load]

Am I correct in the assumption that the T-58 series is the military version of the CT-58 as currently fitted to the S61 Series?

[Agaricus bisporus]

Fascinating comparison of how the US State Dept wants lots of dependable and mendable 1950s agricultural technology for Afghanistan and other bundhu-ops places when the UK MOD is spending squillions on a scant handful the ultimate state-of-the-art tetchy maintenance-hungry computerised to the eyeballs Chinooks and Merlins.

I wonder which is the better policy. (actually, I don't wonder for more than a nanosecond or two).

OK, I know the S61s are unlikely to be used in the front line, but even so, which is likely to be the hardier when taking fire? Plastic Merlins full of vulnerable electronics that virtually need an autoclave to mend even small holes in the structure or simple tin boxes?

I get the feeling we're using thoroughbred racehoses for ploughing rocky fields out there.

[Hell Man]

S-61L 'Shortsky'

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/0/1/0/1796010.jpg (http://www.pprune.org/photo/Sunwest-Helicopters/Sikorsky-S-61L-Shortsky/1796010/L/&sid=c94c8c7d1cd7782c621272367877aa03)

Sunwest's 'Shortsky' leaving the Nahatlatch Valley (August 2010) for Qualicum after working fires.

HM

To the Moderator: Could you re-name this thread 'Sikorsky S61' or 'S61 Issues' etc. - it would make the thread easier to find! :ok:

[Hell Man]

Roark Schwanenberg
(Jan 19 1954 - Aug 5 2008)

http://www.wallowacountychieftain.info/SiteImages/Article/16680a.jpg

RIP Ro. Still miss you Buddy. :(

[Gordy]

Better yet:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j35/helokat/LaFawnduh%2008/IMG_2289.jpg

[industry insider]

Hell Man

All S-61Ts will be short fuselage models. All of the donor airframes for S-61T models are ex military at this stage.

Carson may continue to re blade and re engine some older S-61N models but while similar, they will not be T designated aircraft, that is a Sikorsky designator.

[Hell Man]

Carson Develops New S-61 Tail Rotor


Thierry Dubois for Rotor & Wing International
November 2010

Pennsylvania based Carson Helicopters is developing a composite tailrotor upgrade for the S-61 medium twin. Thanks to a more efficient design the new tailrotor will yield an increased payload at altitude. Speaking at the European Rotorcraft Forum in Paris, company President Frank Carson said the current five bladed rotor lacked efficiency. According to Carson his company’s objective is to design blades which provide increased yaw control at high altitude, using less power while providing a retrofit which does not require any modifications to the aircraft.

With our first blade prototype we failed said Carson as it exhibited “very high control loads.” One reason for this was a mismatch of the inertial properties when compared with the original blade. An additional problem was caused by a minor contour error in the blade mould.

Relative to the original design, the airfoil profile has changed and Carson has introduced an eight degree twist resulting in lower control loads. With material fatigue tests complete Carson hopes to begin flight testing the new blade in November. Carson engineers hope that by requiring less power the new tailrotor will add an additional 300 lbs of lift to the main rotor.

Carson has also exposed the S-61 to an engine upgrade replacing the CT-58-140-1/2 with the T58-GE-16 boosting engine power from 1,400 to 1,870 hp.

[Earl of Rochester]

BFTP (Blast from the past)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3383/3234796396_68302a073c_z.jpg

BAH S-61N G-BFFK at Newcastle

[krypton_john]

Sale of 6 ea. Sikorsky S-61A Helicopters, Spare Parts, Ground Support Equipment and Special Tools. (http://tinyurl.com/32jty9k)

[Hell Man]

US gets its first upgraded Sikorsky S-61

http://newsodrome.com/military_news/aviation-department-of-state-enters-5-year-idiq-agreement-for-up-to-110-s-61-t-helicopters-20913372.jpg

Hartford, December 3rd 2010

A unit of Sikorsky Aircaft has delivered to the U.S. State Department the first in a batch of upgraded S-61 helicopters, the civilian version of Sikorsky's military Sea King.

Sikorsky Aerospace Services in Shelton said three more S-61s are due for delivery by yearend, along with 13 more next year.

They are among up to as many as 110 of the helicopters the state department wants for ferrying able-bodied and sick passengers, as well as for global relief missions. The value of these orders and the full contract has not been publicly disclosed.

The upgrades include composite main rotors, cockpit improvements to reduce pilot fatigue and improve safety, and enhancements that make the aircraft easier and cheaper to operate and maintain.

Sikorsky Aircaft is a division of United Technologies Corp. in Hartford.

U.S. gets its first upgraded Sikorsky S-61 | Hartford Business (http://www.hartfordbusiness.com/news15862.html)

[Stratofreighter]

Many thanks in advance :ok:

[farsouth]

S61 Main Rotor @100% Nr = 203 rpm


Previous post had asked what the Main Rotor RPM is on S61 - for some reason the question has now been edited out...........

[Water Displacement]

Stratofreighter - looking for a free ride in Jan? :O

[Stratofreighter]

How'd ya guess ? :}

Everytime I wanted to book during an event they were already full :uhoh:, so last chance ever... :ok:

[Savoia]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-qVUJWAnRfOU/Tn7tKTd0i-I/AAAAAAAAFA4/lkopAJ_Umfk/2ecivjl.jpg
A Carson Helicopters S61T (modified) departs Shamulzai Forward Operating Base in Zabul province, Southern Afghanistan on 4th February 2010. In the foreground are US Army Lieutenant Hans Mogelgaard from Pensacola Florida (left) and Specialist Joshua Blair from St. Paris Ohio of Echo Company, 4th Brigade combat team, 1-508 parachute infantry regiment.

The 61 is part of a seven aircraft contract won by a company known as Presidential Airways (formerly a subsidiary of the firm known as Blackwater). Presidential are now owned by another prominent US State Department contractor, AAR Corp.

Related news release (http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090219/BIZ/902190324)

[Bdub]

I can say, with a fair amount of certainty, that the S-61 in that picture is not a new "T" model. It looks just like all the other grey S61N's PAW is running in Afghanistan.

[unstable load]

How can you tell the difference?

[Pink Panther]

Maybe it's an N model with what looks like Carson blades.

[Outwest]

I'm pretty sure all the "T" models are converted SH-3 (Sea Kings) or Shortsky's.

That a/c in the picture is an "N" but more likely an "NM" as hard to tell if there are sponsons fitted or not. The clue it is not a short is the position of the FOD shield. In a short model the FOD shield partially covers the skylights.

[Bdub]

I'm pretty sure all the "T" models are converted SH-3 (Sea Kings) or Shortsky's.

That a/c in the picture is an "N" but more likely an "NM" as hard to tell if there are sponsons fitted or not. The clue it is not a short is the position of the FOD shield. In a short model the FOD shield partially covers the skylights.

Exactly...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BrianW/Afghanistan%20Pic%202011/NH-hovering-on-runway-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BrianW/Afghanistan%20Pic%202011/nh-morning-start.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BrianW/Afghanistan%202010/Nut-Hammer-Overhead-Shot-1.jpg

[Outwest]

Excellent pictures Bdub :ok:

[industry insider]

Lovely pictures. Its not a Short of any description as it still has the cargo door fitted, more like an old N model with the sponsons removed.

[Outwest]

more like an old N model with the sponsons removed.

Actually an "N" model with "L" gear becomes an "NM"

[industry insider]

Thanks Outwest, I actually didn't know that. Lovely old girl though. NM she is then!

[Garry M]

Not quite. The model S-61NM consists of S-61N components (tail cone and pylon, stabilizer and landing gear) combined with an S-61L fuselage. The original L models had luggage lockers along the left hand side in place of the keel (photos here (http://www.airliners.net/photo/0153335/)) There was never many built (13 I think) and a lot of them were later converted to N's for offshore. It could be an NM converted, but you will find most if not all of them are N models with L gear. The one in the photo is.

Cheers

[Tail-take-off]

I always thought this was the NM with the lopsided hull.

http://www.abpic.co.uk/images/images/1063049M.jpg

http://images2.jetphotos.net/img/1/7/9/6/33614_1048440697.jpg

[Outwest]

I stand corrected......the "NM" is in fact an "N" model (Sponsons, etc.) with an "L" hull. Then certified as "land only".

The "N" model can be equipped with either retractable or fixed gear, this time I checked the RFM instead of relying on my poor memory ;)

Actually the "L" model was the first model Sikorsky delivered to the civilian market, the N came later.

[S61-S92]

Careful examination of the picture above shows the grey aircraft Reg to be N61NH which is formerly MHS S61N c/n 61764 Reg 9M-SSS

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/7/2/7/0392727.jpg

[industry insider]

Looks like she has quite a history. CHC Norway (Helikopter Service) then Air Greenland and a heavy landing causing considerable damage in 2007.

[carsickpuppy]

November 10, 2011
U.S. State Department buys Sikorsky helos
The U.S. Department of State has ordered three additional upgraded S-61 utility helicopters, Sikorsky Aerospace Services announced.

The purchase brings the number of S-61s purchased by the State Department to 29.

"The S-61 helicopter is known as an industry workhorse and for decades has reliably performed missions for U.S. and foreign allied militaries," said S-61 Programs Director John Johnson.

"The upgraded S-61 helicopter can be outfitted to meet a wide variety of requirements, and we believe it provides 'best-in-class-value' for a mid-size, multi-mission helicopter."

The three aircraft will transport diplomatic personnel in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Building on the S-61 helicopter's 50-year legacy of dependability, SAS initiated the S-61 upgrade program in early 2010.

As Sikorsky's launch customer, the State Department has entered into a five-year indefinite-quantity agreement with the option to purchase up to 110 upgraded S-61 aircraft.

The IQ purchase agreement serves as the contracting vehicle for any U.S. government agency to purchase upgraded S-61 aircraft.

Sikorsky said the upgraded S-61 helicopters will undergo a full structural refurbishment with all major dynamic components zero-timed and key upgrades provided, including new composite main rotor blades and a survivability suite.

Sikorsky Aerospace Services is the aftermarket division of Sikorsky Aircraft Corp


Sikorsky said the upgraded S-61 helicopters will undergo a full structural refurbishment..

Judging from the above phrase these are "used" helicopters getting a makeover?
Or are they new metal throughout, using those 50 year old templates/forms?

[industry insider]

Car sick

They are used H3s from the bone-yard getting a very big and expensive makeover.

[EDMJ]

@carsick & industryinsider: 7 of these airframes are the former Danish Air Force S-61A mentioned in post #131.

[yzfr1]

I work on the hydraulic components for the 61, after all these years I still prefer to work on the S61 stuff over the newer one like the S76. I feel like it was made more robust and strait forward. The new stuff is overly complicated and I feel not as dependable. Also much cheaper (components) anyways. Comparing main rotor dampers a S76 one on average cost 1.5x more then a old 61

Anyways love the 61 hope it stays around for a little while longer.

[Savoia]

YZFR1: Welcome to Rotorheads!

The 61 is certainly one of the industry's classics and a workhorse which I liken to the rotary equivalent of the Dakota.

There was a superb S61 running around your neck of the woods about 7-8 years ago (can't remember the registration) but she was fitted out with a VIP interior and certainly looked the business. I had a client interested in her .. until he discovered she was an ex-logger!

Please post some photos from the workshop also .. do your birds use the Carson blades and are operators using Carson's tail rotors yet and do you have an automatic governor for the engines or does the co-jo still have to fly with his hand on the throttles during take-off and landing?

Sav

[PlymouthPixie]

Hi Guys,

Can't really find many photos on them withdrawn from use, but what happened to all of the HM Coastguard Sikorsky S-61's when the S-92 and AW-139's took over?

Where they all scrapped or shipped elsewhere?

Can't find any photos in their new homes.

Regards.

[TiPwEiGhT]

One or two went to firefighting companies and the rest to Carson for upgrade i think. Search for the S61 thread running, very interesting and has the info you're looking for.

TiP

[PlymouthPixie]

Can't see much of a rundown on the British International S-61's, so here's the photos I have of them all recent;

G-ATFM - Falkland Islands.
G-AYOY - Sold to - Vector Aerospace Canada Late 2011.
G-BCEA - Sold to - Vector Aerospace Canada Late 2011.
G-BCEB - Now stripped at Newquay.
G-BHOG - Sold to - Vector Aerospace Canada Late 2011., wears old reg (PT-YEK)
G-BFFJ - Based Penzance.
G-BFRI - Falkland Islands.
G-VIPZ - Was also leased in but delievered to an American customer last year. Can't find any info on new reg though?
http://southwestdesign.org.uk/SouthwestPhotos/Test.jpg
Again - only photo of "G-BHOG" on the web or at least that I can find in the last 10+ years.
http://southwestdesign.org.uk/SouthwestPhotos/IMG_5584.jpg
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm303/Plymouthair/ecef4152.jpg
http://southwestdesign.org.uk/SouthwestPhotos/IMG_3588.jpg
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm303/Plymouthair/ebf574ae.jpg
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm303/Plymouthair/cfc5a4d4.jpg
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm303/Plymouthair/2c4feecc.jpg

[anyoftheabove]

For your info PP
G-ATFM - Based Falkland Islands
G-BFRI - Based Falkland Islands

[PlymouthPixie]

Are you perfectly sure - becuase thats not what my source at British International claims?

[145kts]

Well the Falkland guys are flying something !
PP time for a new source.

[PlymouthPixie]

Thanks guys! I was under the impression that they had lost the Falklands contract and the aircraft sold on - or at least G-AYOY, G-BHOG, G-VIPZ & G-BCEA have.

[Ant T]

Savoia - a while back, on the Ferranti thread I wrote abut my dad who used to fly for Denis Ferranti. You asked there if I might post a few pictures of the S61s that I am now flying in the Falklands. Thought the pics might be more appropriate on this thread -

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/antt10/P1010584.jpg

BI had the contract to support the Ocean Guardian until mid-2011 when CHC took over using AS332 L2 (our available payloads were fairly low once the rig moved out to 150 miles)

BI have had the MOD contract since they took over from Bristow in 1998 (I first came to the Falklands in 1987 on the Bristow contract)
We still have plenty of good flying,

interesting landing sites -
http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/antt10/DSC05542.jpg

Underslung loads -
http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/antt10/DSC05529.jpg


Lovely aircraft -

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/antt10/DSC05435.jpg


Me in the right seat getting line checked by Derek Baker in the left seat - he was just approaching 20,000 hours on the S61 !! (I think, but it may just (!!) have been 20,000 hours total time).

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb450/antt10/P1010587.jpg

[Non-Driver]

Interesting to see RI back in airworthy condition. She sat in the BHL hangar in Aberdeen for many years following UN duties along with OG/OH in a considerable state of disassembly. Cannibalisation was the order of the day as the rest of the S61 fleet diminished with even main looms chopped. I recall BI took the best 2 and rebuilt them. Must have been a significant exercise seeing how long they'd been dormant and how many oily bits had been sold. She certainly won't have many parts matching her original build.

[industry insider]

I was wondering what happened to BFRI. I had my first engine failure in a twin in RI coming off the Ninian Central on the 8th of October 1981 at around 8.30 while doing a Heavy Chevy run back to Unst. She looked after me that day as we headed back to Unst at around 80 knots IAS. It was not too windy that day, around 20 knots if I remember which made the dive and recovery just after rotation quite interesting! We had a full load with a cabin attendant if I recall, 23 down the back. Great pictures, thank you.

[Ian Corrigible]

...Romeo India also being featured in the BIH feature in this month's copy of Rotorhub (www.shephardmedia.com/news/rotorhub) (pp10-13).

I/C

[Savoia]

Ant great stuff, most enjoyable! :ok:

If your Dad has any reminiscences from his days with Denis which he would like to share .. please do post for us all.

Rgds

Sav

[Laundryboy]

Haven't got my log book to hand, but I seem to remember an engine failure in RI around that time, coming off the same Ninian Central. I might have been the chief pilot, and you might have been related to someone in Redhill?!

[3D CAM]

And I might have been one of the engineers who replaced that engine.:{
3D

[Savoia]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Q86AQ5c4a0U/T59ju0b_MfI/AAAAAAAAIvU/HXOsmpj6lC8/s0-d/S61%2527s%2Bat%2BLerwick%252C%2BScotland%2B%252C%2Bbound%2Bf or%2BNorth%2BAmerica.png
A collection of S61's in Lerwick, Scotland, bound for North America. (No date unfortunately).

[heli1]

I remember that move Savioa.The S-61s had been traded in to Aerospatiale for Super Pumas and were stored in the Shetlands for ages .They were eventually sold in the US on condition that they did not return to offshore operations ,although later on some did !
Date was around the end of 1989 ?

[Phil Kemp]

I was that man...

We trucked the S61's up to Lerwick, only to have the boat not show up! :eek:

After stripping the machines down outside for shipping, in perfect November/December Shetland weather - and it was amazingly great weather that year.

This picture was taken in the P&O yard before we put them into inside storage at Dales Voe over Christmas, then shipped them out the Portland, Oregon. I see some of these machines quite regularly, even today.

Picture taken at the P&O yard in Gremista in December 1987.

What great fun. Nice to see so many of my former colleagues and friends on this thread! :ok:

[industry insider]

Phil

What is the story behind the N reg on the S-61 on the truck?

[spitfiremk9]

Hi all

Great pictures.

I fly the S-61N in Airgreenland. We have two remaining in our fleet which once where a total of 8.
The one I fly this days is the OY-HAF, wich just now has over 43040 hours.:D
It has sn. 61287.
The two ships remaining OYHAF,and OYHAG, are due for retirement by the end of the year if they doesn't reach an agreement regard to a contract on SAR for Greenland in 2013.
It is a vey good aircraft, and these aircraft has been operated in Greenland, in an arctic environment since 1965. Mostly they are hangared but last year during offshore operations it had to be outside while the S-92 from cougar had to be inside. Not a problem for the old lady.:O
http://www.airport-data.com/images/aircraft/large/198/198646.jpg


best reg
Spitfiremk9

[HeliTester]

Thanks for the post spitfiremk9,

43040 hours, that's nearly 5-years in the air. Anyone know what the highest time S-61N is?

[heli1]

Well Phil,the sale of those S-61Ns into the US came at an unfortunate time as Aerospatiale boss Jean Bigay at the time had promised to donate one to The Helicopter Museum if they werent sold by the year end.The Museum even had Bristow's MD promise to deliver one to the museum if the deal was ratified.Of course the sale blew that and the museum still doesnt have an S-61.
Now I wonder if Air Greenland might donate one when they retire...fat chance eh?

[Savoia]

Heli1/Phil Kemp: Thanks for your comments regarding the Westward-bound 61's. '87 it was then!

Spitfire Mk IX: That is a lovely shot of HAF (even if she is in need of a wash).

Please can you explain in just a little more about the work you perform with Grønlandsfly such as the routes you run, passenger loads and the average temperature at your normal cruising height etc.

Would be most interested.

Rgds

Sav

[spitfiremk9]

Yes indeed its a nice shot.

I have more trying to post them via dropbox, but not easy.

Anyway, we operate the S-16N in multiple roles in Greenland. Scheduled route for the Greenlandic home ruling. (Hjemmestyret), which also consist of SAR and medevacs.
And the aircraft is also used in sling , cargo and all kinds of charter operations. VFR and IFR day and night. Night and IFR is challenging. The coastlines are long and the mountains are high. We stay low if we can, if not 1500-4000 feet. VFR Temp in summer time is up to 15-20 deg C. and winter can be down to -35 deg C. Wind and weather are often changing rapidly.
what can I say, the best job in the world. :

And finally I managed to get some Pic`s of old lady. Enjoy. :)



http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7135/7138875733_f7ce73fea0_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8006/7138871847_d30435cdaa_c.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7216/7138871581_25d8799cda_c.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7206/7138871073_7087ed3c84_c.jpg

[Ant T]

With the current interest in gearboxes and lubrication (S92, AS332, EC225), can anyone tell me the history of the Emergency Lube system on the S61. It looks as if it was added after the original design (the switch for it is on a separate panel and looks like an add-on) but I have never heard that it was added after any specific S61 incident or accident, so maybe it was there right from the start, or became required by legislation following problems on some other aircraft type?? (I currently fly the S61, so I know what it does and how it works etc, just looking for information on when it was first added to the design).

[PlymouthPixie]

I'm trying to source the current where-abouts and registrations for the few S-61's that BIH recently sold off.

Namely, G-BHOG, G-AYOY, G-VIPZ & G-BCEA, any ideas please?

[revs&checks]

I'm reliably informed that G-BCEA (serial 61721) is now N463ZC but not sure about the others.
Please post if you find out though.

[Stratofreighter]

I guess most of you will have seen this:

Sikorsky considers Ukrainian engines for S-61 upgrade (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/sikorsky-considers-ukrainian-engines-for-s-61-upgrade-374786/)



Sikorsky considers Ukrainian engines for S-61 upgrade

Ukrainian gas-turbine maker Motor Sich has held talks with US rotorcraft
company Sikorsky over the possible installation of its engines in the Sikorsky
S-61 (http://www.flightglobal.com/landingpage/Sikorsky%20S-61.html) helicopter, Motor Sich director Vyacheslav Boguslayev says.

[before landing check list]

I do not think an engine upgrade is feasible without upgrading the inputs.

[Tail-take-off]

G-BHOG is currently N825WL which I believe is registered to the US state department so probably in Afganistan along with a number of other ex North Sea Sixty Ones.

[ScotiaQ]

Plymouth Pixie

The following are the current registrations of the subject S61Ns

G-BHOG N825WL G-AYOY N476AW G-VIPZ to N408SC and then
N824WA G-BCEA N463ZC - all courtesy of ROTORSPOT

The N reg suggests that they are all in the USA

Sq

[PlymouthPixie]

Thanks guys and in other news, British International will close down operations on November 1st.

Another 6 odd Sikorsky's going to the US no doubt, dont like how they take the sponsons off....

[Tail-take-off]

The N reg suggests that they are all in the USA

It suggests they're registered in the USA!

[Fareastdriver]

British International will close down operations on November 1st.

I understood that they were only closing down the Penzance/Scilly Isle operation.

[PlymouthPixie]

Sorry yes, your correct.

Local paper made it sound as though the entire operation will go, i would imagine it will at some point though.

[mfriskel]

An engine upgrade would be very welcome! A FADEC added to a version of the current engine would be a great asset, and any upgraded engine could allow better hot and high operations without any need for uprated inputs. We operate in areas where the OEI max tq available is less than 90%.

[outofphase]

Just thought I'd let you know that I was part of the 9000hr insp and rebuild on HOG & YOY and are complete and flying in Iraq right now. CEA I believe had the same fate but I wasn't part of that program. They are beautiful machines and I hope they come back in one piece!

[S61-S92]

outofphase

Without divulging anything you shouldn't :oh:,
what sort of work did the ex North Sea S61's get on their rebuilds?
Would love to hear details.

Any pictures per chance ??

[haze0105]

Yeah, I am also curious about that. Would you give us details outofphase?

[exlatccatsa]

I see the new UK car registrations 61 plate have allowed some S61 drivers their personalised plates.
I saw SK61CHC yesterday.
For those of you interested in personalised plates, here are some other posibilities...
SK61ADN
SK61SUM
SK61BHL
SK61BAH
SK61BND
SK61BIH

I'm sure you can think of more

;)

[outofphase]

S61-S92,
I'm afraid I can't post pics since it's company policy not to share images, sorry. But the aircraft did need quite a bit of work since HOG hadn't flown since 2002 and YOY since 2007. HOG had extensive corrosion which took many man hours to get it sound again. They both got a light blue, grey and white paint job for a US government agency to match their fleet colours. As for extras they got anti-missile chaffe systems installed, detection cameras and provisions for weapons. Sponsons are off of course, sea anchor and all that was removed. Military seating was also installed for troops to face inward, called Martin Baker seating. New Sikorsky glass blades installed and off they went! I hope this was informative, all the best.

[S61-S92]

Thanks for that, outofphase :ok: - its great to hear the old girls have found a new lease of life. Hope that they keep all the occupants as safe in their new role as they did in the past.

I remember the brand new G-BHOG arriving at Bristow Redhill and spent many hours maintaining her in subsequent years. In fact you might have come across some "messages" in the forward hold, from some of us who had the pleasure of being encased in there for mods over the years. :E

[industry insider]

HOG had extensive corrosion which took many man hours to get it sound again.

Impossible, she was new in 1980! The only S-61 not fitted with Decca if I remember. She had the "Litton" system, which required a special line check to fly her. The Litton was not much chop at navigating, the old Decca was better.

Where did she go between Bristow and now? Didn't she become G-HUMS? Lost track of her after that. What a fine young thing she was in 1980 though, she even had an HSI.

[Ant T]

An HSI !!!!! - You were lucky - the S61 s I fly now still don't have an HSI.......

[Tail-take-off]

No Litton in G -BHOG during my time. Decca mk 19 at first (1989) then Decca RNAV by 1996.

She did have a, what seemed at the time, very sophisticated flight director though!

[Snarlie]

The four S61N`s in Kuala Trengannu in late 70`s, early 80`s all had Litton GNS 500 which served well as an expensive clock but not much else.

[Manchester]

Excuse my asking, Tail-take-off, but your strap-line says you’re 42. If that’s the case, how do you know that HOG had Mk 19 Decca in 1989? Could you see that detail through the smoke of Woodbines from behind the bike-shed?

[Fareastdriver]

He joined in 2007.; five years ago at the age of 42. That makes him 47 now and in 1989 he would have been 24 years old. He would have been able to afford Benson & Hedges by then.

[Manchester]

I'm not sure which I miss most - being 47, working Decca or smoking Woodies before they were unhealthy

[Tail-take-off]

Excuse my asking, Tail-take-off, but your strap-line says you’re 42. If that’s the case, how do you know that HOG had Mk 19 Decca in 1989? Could you see that detail through the smoke of Woodbines from behind the bike-shed?

Because in 1989 I was a 19 year old spooty faced new co-pilot on the S61 in Aberdeen!

[outofphase]

S61-S92
We did see those messages and it makes you think about the history in these old girls. A fellow who works at our company was a mechanic at the time wrote his name in their and we made him get in their and see for himself his message from 1982 or whenever it was. He said it went to Holland for mods and that's where they spent many hours. It was a fun project..

[TipCap]

Because in 1989 I was a 19 year old spooty faced new co-pilot on the S61 in Aberdeen!

Ah, the years roll back...............

I remember OG had a Flight Director too. I was also involved in CAA sponsored and recorded trials at Prestwick in August 1980 with OG flying it down to 50' Rad Alt behind the screens and clocking up 12 ILS's in a day!!!

[Tail-take-off]

Well the spots have given way to wrinkles now! Too many earlies. If only I'd stood the test of time as well as the S61 :ok:

[TipCap]

Earlies? What are those?

Oh yes, I remember now. Retirement is great :ok:

[HeliTester]

Frank Carson said he thinks there are at least 20 to 30 years of life in his rebuilt S-61s.

“In some respects our aircraft are better than the original–with new wiring and radios, the glass cockpit, the composite blades, the upgraded engines and new parts for various dynamic components being built by Sikorsky.”

Life begins at 50 for upgraded Sea Kings | Aviation International News (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/farnborough-air-show/2010-07-19/life-begins-50-upgraded-sea-kings?qt-most_popular=0)

[JimL]

No proposal for replacing the white metal bearings in the high speed input section then.

However, she was a joy to fly!

Jim

[Ant T]

As this thread has come back to the top, I'll try re-posting this question that I asked a while back with no answer (......think I asked it after the first 225 "Oil-pump/Emergency lube" failure !!)


With the current interest in gearboxes and lubrication (S92, AS332, EC225), can anyone tell me the history of the Emergency Lube system on the S61. It looks as if it was added after the original design (the switch for it is on a separate panel and looks like an add-on) but I have never heard that it was added after any specific S61 incident or accident, so maybe it was there right from the start, or became required by legislation following problems on some other aircraft type?? (I currently fly the S61, so I know what it does and how it works etc, just looking for information on when it was first added to the design).

[lsd]

Good point JimL...When our white metal bearing decided to quit one morning at Sumbergh the bang was heard 3 spots away in another rotors running 61....and HIAB weren't too impressed with all the gearbox oil all over their dispersal!
Being positive however, better then than a couple of minutes later when we would have been 20445 lbs on climb-out with in effect a double engine failure.........
And on an even more positive note, it was May so the North Sea would have been fairly benign.....if that's a appropriate word for the North Sea we know and love.

[[email protected]]

Ant T - I'm pretty sure your S-61 ELS is the same as our Sea King one. As far as I can remember, the ELS mod was definitely a post-production issue, there were a number of MRGB oil leaks which resulted in ditchings when the SK was in first in service with the RN.

Since operating a helicopter in the maritime environment with so many pipes external to the MRGB that could split and pour all the oil overboard is not so clever, the ELS mod was born.

What I don't know is if it was a Sikorsky produced mod or if it was Westlands producing it under licence because they built the brit mil Sea Kings.

Perhaps the history of the S61 MRGB was what drove Sikorsky to try to produce a MRGB without external pipes (the S-92) so that such failures were removed for ever - unfortunately that came back to bite them in the a*se as they invented a whole new type of failure.

[JohnDixson]

Crab,

The transition from the S-61 MGB featuring external lines started with the S-65 model with mostly cored passages. The next iteration was initiated by the US Army requirements documents ( the original Material Need document, followed by the official Request for Proposal ) for the UTTAS helicopter. The documents required rigorous ballistic survivability standards addressing the standard Russian weaponry from 7.65 thru 23mm sizes. There was also a 30 minute dry run requirement, at best range speed. From a general configuration viewpoint, the S-92 MGB looks like a larger version of the Hawk box.

To be honest, I never heard anyone recite the background behind the FAA dry run standard. Just assumed that the FAA saw that one company ( actually two, because I believe the Boeing UTTAS MGB made the requirement as well- if they hadn't, we would have heard, I feel certain ) had demonstrated the technical feasibility, so they decided to raise the bar. Perhaps Mr. Coyle can check with his FAA connections if he is reading this thread.

[Sevarg]

Ant, The first time I saw it was on G-BDOC when she arrive, with nothing on the clock but the makers name, in UK. That would have been 1977 at a guess. Sorry the grey matter's a bit hazy when thinking that far back.
As for the reason for fitting I've no idea, I can't think of anything happening that would have started it off around then but the Mil weren't talking much about what was happening to them and they were by far the biggest operators.
Maybe Crab will have a date for it's intro to the Sea king?

[Ant T]

Thanks for the replies about the Emergency Lube System. I guess it was as a result of specific incidents in the 70's but just hadn't heard the details of the events.
Did have one of my own in the late 80's here in the Falklands (flying with David Mallock) - about 5 minutes after taking off from Mt Pleasant heading west, a brief sound of squealing metal followed by a loud bang, engine oversped and ran down, oil pouring down the outside, and inside in the cabin throught the shrapnel holes in the roof !! There was (sort of) suitable ground beneath us so we landed immediately.
The aircraft was recoverd to base the next day underneath a Chinook (just before the phone call from Head Office saying "under no circumstance undersling it - not covered by insurance" ......)
It was a high speed input bearing failure, never heard any subsequent suggestion as to why it had failed.

[Tail-take-off]

The aircraft was recoverd to base the next day underneath a Chinook

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z74/Tail-take-off/G-BCLDunderslungagainFalklands1991-1.jpg

[Ant T]

:D:D:D

Thanks TTO Was just thinking it would have been nice to have a photo of that. Did you have any of the damage to the gearbox input ?? Or the holes in the cowlings.......

[Tail-take-off]

No, I was there when you had the incident but was offsite when the photo was taken. "Outspan" gave me that copy.

[jonnyloove]

With BIH rapping up operations so to speak what are they doing with the S-61's they have left..?

[Thomas coupling]

Tesco's are using them as flower beds in their car park...:E

[Adroight]

There is a lucrative market for them in parts of the world that does not have North Sea myopia. Most of the ones I flew that were sold off cheaply are re-employed and making loads of dosh for their new owners.

[jonnyloove]

Has BIH sold of there remianing fleet of S-61N's Yet or are they being stripped for parts.

[Stratofreighter]

Okay, it is the military version, not the S-61, but still...

BBC Two - The Sea King: Britain's Flying Past (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01r1z3g)



• Thu 28 Feb 2013 21:00 BBC Two

• Sun 3 Mar 2013 18:30 BBC Two ENGLAND ONLY

Duration: 59 minutes

John
Sergeant presents a TV love letter to one of Britain's most iconic aircraft,
the Sea King helicopter.
An unsung hero of Britain's flying past, vital in
wartime and yet essential to the search and rescue work of the Royal Navy.

More through BBC 2 SEA KING: BRITAIN (http://www.fleetairarmoa.org/news/bbc-2-sea-king-britains-flying-past)

[ericferret]

Does anybody know on what basis the S61T is certified. I notice that it doesn't have a type certificate so I assume it is a military version only.

[industry insider]

Eric

I think it depends on whether the donor aircraft was a civilian S-61 or military H3.

[JohnDixson]

Good basic question, Eric, and one which all the OEM's face from time to time. This typically occurs in sales to foreign operators/governments. The OEM sells a machine that a customer wants, but the machine has some equipment not in the basic military or civil qualified version. How does the OEM certify the machine?

SA finally took the following approach to this thorny issue in the early ?1990's as I recall. They already had an advisory group called a Quality Assurance Board, and they handed the responsibility to them. That Board established a simple guideline: if the buying country had qualification standards, then they would apply. If it was a straight military version machine, then the original US Military standards would apply. In the cases not covered above, FAA standard would apply.

Example: The Government of Brunei wanted a VIP S-70 version ( simple so far: the US Mil. qual applied to the basic airframe and basic systems ), but they needed a fully coupled autopilot. Oops, SA didn't have one. Well, it was about time we designed and put one in the S-70, so we did, and tested it, and put it through a qual program that met each and every requirement of the Part 29 Advisory Circular 29.2C, all the hardcovers, failure mode testing.

I'm not familiar with the details of the 61T, but unless they changed the way they do business, I'd assume something along this approach was done.

Very good question. ( those with some experience working for the OEM can appreciate that some QAB meetings deal with challenging and sometimes contradictory qual issues ).

[Hompy]

Doe anybody here know when the S61, not the seaking, started doing SAR in Ireland or the UK?

[Fareastdriver]

It stared for Bristow in April 1985 at Sumburgh.

[Tail-take-off]

Wasn't SAR part of the Forties contract before that? Also British Airways used it for adhoc SAR in Sumburgh before 1985.

[Fareastdriver]

I thought that was referring to full time SAR but even so my memory suggests it was before 1985 because a neighbour who went to L on S moved out before 1984.

[lsd]

In December 1971 BEAH (British European Airways Helicopters) were awarded a contract by the Department of Trade Maritime Division to provide an SAR service from Aberdeen. One S61 was on standby 24 hours a day, winch equipped with trained crewmen (6 ex-military crewmen were recruited as winchops/men).
Although this contract marks the formal start of UK SAR ops by the company, it is noted that in 1968 a S61 rescued the crew of the 'Sea Gem' 110 miles off Flamborough Head, when the rig broke its moorings in a force 10 gale.
For a fuller account of the BEAH SAR unit read 'A history of British Airways Helicopters and its predecessors since 1947' by Lo Bao, published 1985 by Air Britain

[Hompy]

I'll take lsd's . . info.

Thanks

[nessboy]

Bristow SAR contract with the CG at Sumburgh started December 1983.

[Savoia]

Hompy: Have a read on this page of the http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/389322-bristow-sumburgh-end-era-10.html thread and you might happen upon some interesting info.

[Mushroom_2]

Bristow SAR contract with the CG at Sumburgh started December 1983.

nessboy is correct - I was there :(

[Hompy]

Has anybody got any photos of the 1971 BEAH SAR 61 they could post here?

[ken knight]

This may not be what you are actually looking for but I seem to remember that BIH carried out a rescue just off the coast here at Balmedie or Blackdog many moons ago. If memory serves a picture appeared in the local "Press and Journal" newspaper. A boat, could have been a trawler, ran aground and the picture showed a BIH helicopter hovering over the ship. Might be worth contacting them to see if there is anything in their archive.

[S61-S92]

From 1971, The contract with BEAH (or BAH from 1974 onwards) required at least one of the company's fleet of S61N's to be on standby for rescue duty at one hour's notice. A small team of six former Navy and RAF winch crewmen was formed and detachable Lucas Aerospace compressed air winches were purchased which could be fitted to any available S61N in as little as ten minutes.

During the six years of this contract, more than 100 operational sorties were flown and 190 people 'uplifted'.

To summarise, Hompy, there was no single SAR aircraft, just the availability of any of the BEAH/BAH North Sea S61 fleet in Aberdeen and later in Sumburgh from where the 'Elinor Viking' rescue was launched.

As nessboy points out, the first dedicated S61N civilian service was that provided by Bristow in December 1983 with a slightly altered G-BBVA followed by the fully SAR modified G-BDOC (See the Sumburgh thread).

:ok:

[Oldlae]

Bristow were using the Lucas Air Hoist in the Forties as around 1980 I was flown to one of the rigs to collect a cable that had failed and I took it to the Lucas factory in Birmingham for examination.

[S61-S92]

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af24/S61-S92/1977-FI-BEAH_zpse8466f7f.jpg
Let me be the first to add a picture :) Some extra info here too

[ken knight]

The picture in the previous post is the one I was referring to, not BIH as I stated but BAH.

[Hompy]

Thanks.

So if I was to summarise, I could say SAR S61N Europe - 1971 to 2014(if Ireland are transferred across by then)? Understood that there were a couple of rescues before then but a paid S61 SAR contract started in Aberdeen in '71 and the SAR S61N still carries out rescues today.

If the world(US and T's) were included I suppose it'd be SAR S61 1962 - 2050?

[TipCap]

We started up the SAR operation in Shannon with Irish Helicopters S61N in 1993 (I think) :ok::ok: