Hempels Aviation Doors are closed

[Integro]

Hempels have closed (building has been gutted). Wondering if anyone in here knows who is handling the winding up proceedings for the company.

A lesson learned not to pay for flights in advance cos you just might not get them and getting your money back can be a real pain in the butt!

Any info would help!

[bizzybody]

Funny that, i rang them the other day and asked them to find out if it was mayb for sale and the answer i got was " i am going to answer that question by hanging up the phone now" and he did

Interesting

Bizz

[Old Fella]

Integro, I'm sure the late Mr Hempel would be pleased to be here to give you your money back. I think his loss is greater than yours.

[Jabawocky]

I feel sorry for any students and staff that are disadvantaged by this event, however I do have a question about the CP who was obviously the person responsible for the running of the operations, and must have known what BH was doing, and that it was not legal.

Is he still liable in some way and able to be prosecuted by CASA? What about the dead passengers family? I would assume so, and I dare say the shutting the place down was to avoid an avalanche of costs and losses if they had stayed open any longer.

J:(

[Integro]

I think his loss is greater than yours.

Thanks for that bit of insight Old Fella, but death is part of life and as sad as it is for some one to part with us in this world it's part of our existence here.

I'm not trying to be malicious or nasty about anything just simply asking that I don't get bent over because of some one else's accident.

All I was asking for was the name of the liquidator (if some one knew it). I'm sure if some one owed you a couple of thousand bucks of your hard earned cash you wouldn't be the one on your soap box!

This is part of what happens when some one passes away. Executors step in to handle the estate. The way the school was very quickly and very quietly shut down without contacting those that were owed money was in my opinion unethical!

[kingRB]

All I was asking for was the name of the liquidator (if some one knew it).


what was the registered company name?

You can find out straight away from ASIC who the appointed liquidator is doing a company search.

Furthermore, if you did indeed have flights "paid for in advance" - that firmly places you in the category of being an unsecured creditor - you would want to let the liquidator know as soon as possible.

[Integro]

They are still listed as registered with ASIC so it has not gotten to the point of winding up the company. However I don't expect any of it to be handled in an overly appropriate manner either (I can't see all the proper processes being followed).

Good luck to anyone else who's in the same boat as me.

[PlankBlender]

The way the school was very quickly and very quietly shut down without contacting those that were owed money was in my opinion unethical!

It may also have been illegal, and the people responsible could be held liable over and above the value of any assets of the company.

The argument could go that keeping the company as a going concern could have earned the money to pay back creditors, if there was no pressing reason to shut the company down.

If you can convince a judge that the primary reason for the fast wind-down was to improve the position (read: reduce liability) of shareholders or the people who may have instigated such a wind-down, you may have a case..

Please note I am not alleging anything here, I am merely painting a picture of a possible and from my point of view entirely hypothetical legal situation. For all I know (which is basically nothing about the company or the circumstances of the closing down), it could have been in the deceased's last will :sad:
For completeness' sake, I have never had any dealings with the individual or company in question in any capacity.

Remember, NEVER pre-pay unless the discount received for doing so is substantial enough to justify the risk of losing unused portions of the prepayment.

[wessex19]

what about log books and training records etc. have they been shot out?? Shouldn't students be notified that the business is no more so come and collect your money/ log book/ training records???

[Metro man]

Remember, NEVER pre-pay unless the discount received for doing so is substantial enough to justify the risk of losing unused portions of the prepayment.

The magic words here are "trust acount". ie your money is held by a third party and drawn from as you go along. In the event that the company is wound up it is not part of its assets and is returned in total to you. Never have more than the next couple of lessons in the companys hands. With the cost of flying training today your losses could be considerable if you pay up front for a CPL I/R and the school folds the following week.

[goddamit]

what a goose, so a struggling student out of school paying a term of flying in advance for convenience or discount should not pursue a recovery of lost money. Should tell that to one's face. Nonetheless, a quick winddown like this points to the fact that damage control against prosecution from casa is probably required(legal advice). I knew Baz for many years, however it appears from what I've read from casa quotes recently that the flight in question was not legal. If & I repeat IF this is found in the official report to be true then I feel for the family of the deceased pax & the CP should be ashamed of what went on & should face prosecution IF he knew about this illegal flight in advance. I regarded BH as a friend & colleague however it would be unlikely this was a one off flight like this. I feel sorry for the long term instructors there who were unaware of this situation before it occurred. That said, I hope justice is served whichever way it goes.

[601]

CP should be ashamed of what went on

I do not believe that one should lay blame at the feet of the CP. The aircraft in question was not on the AOC and therefore not under his/her control and BH did not have a CPL.

If the "owner" of a buisness wants to go out and do this sort of thing, what power does the CP have to stop him?

If there is ever a Cornorer's inquest, I hope all will come out.

[bluesky300]

Pretty simple; the CP tells the owner not to,and if it still happens the CP tells CASA, anonymously if he wants to. Running commercial joyflights on a ppl, if that is what happened, is so flagrantly in breach of everything we as aviators should stand up for.

[601]

the CP tells the owner not to

Is that the joke of the month?

[bluesky300]

"Is that the joke of the month?"

No.

[kingRB]

The argument could go that keeping the company as a going concern could have earned the money to pay back creditors, if there was no pressing reason to shut the company down.

If you can convince a judge that the primary reason for the fast wind-down was to improve the position (read: reduce liability) of shareholders or the people who may have instigated such a wind-down, you may have a case..


The company entity is liable for the debt. You would be best lodging a proof of debt with the liquidator and hoping to get some form of a dividend eventually made available for unsecured creditors. In this case, with a voluntary winding up, the odds are in your favour - as the company was probably solvent to begin with.

If you wish to persue the directors personally, the litigation costs involved in a defended matter would far outweigh the amount of funds you had already lost to the company, even if you had paid say $30k upfront.

It would have to be a debt of many hundreds of thousands, or millions to warrant action like that.

[goddamit]

there have been many good CPs for HA, however one that I've known for many years found it very difficult to police all aspects of the company due to the a/c diversity, the owner etc. In short these affected his decision not to continue. In short bluesky is correct. If the owner or other of an organization does not follow the rules action is taken depending upon the seriousness of the breach. If you cannot control all aspects of the flight operations you should not be at the helm. If one does knowingly turns a blind eye to breaches they are as guilty as the offenders & not a characteristic of a CP. I've worked in GA for my fair share & know what goes on & what doesn't. I would not risk my reputation on people who don't respect me.

[drunkensailor]

Ooh that was close.
I recently had a young mate start his training there and he was about to lay a substantial loan amount over the desk to pre-pay to CPL. talked him out of that quick smart thank goodness.
Sad thing about it was he had not been notified about the goings on until he phoned to confirm a pre booked lesson to find the place shutting up shop. Great communication.:hmm:

[Capt Wally]

'drunken' lucky for yr mate, yr story one hears a lot & not just in aviation either. Deception is the most evil action of a human. Aviation seems to bring out the worst of 'em!:sad:



CW

[ithinkso]

Are any of you surprised... really??

casa has been after him for years. not a vendetta, but totally justified. He was a disaster at Ansett, Gil Layt tolerated him, and casa simply couldnt make anything stick.

He was supposed to be a role model, but tell me... how many young idiots have killed themselves trying to imitate bad boy bazza????

i mean really??? is anyone who actually knew barry surprised???

It is a sad and terrible loss. 9 lives all used up.

[Integro]

Well done 'Drunken', me thinks ye saved your mate a lot of stress. At least he was advised that they were closing. I made a trip out there to talk to the staff face to face to find out what the truth was.

Thanks for your comments guys it sounds like I've got a good chance of getting my coin back :).

I've now found the details of the Liquidator if anyone needs them PM me. I don't feel it is appropriate to post up here.

FYI I didn't start this Thread as an I hate Barry Hempel session it was just to find out some details about the Liquidation and to inform any other unlucky students! That being said it's always interesting to read the speculations that are made by other PPRuNers.

[tail wheel]

Name HEMPELS AVIATION PTY. LTD.
ACN 010 919 927
ABN 28 010 919 927
Status ** UNDER EXTERNAL ADMINISTRATION and/or CONTROLLER APPOINTED **
02/10/2008 7E1836055 2 505J Notification of Appointment of Liquidator (Creditors' Voluntary Winding Up)

[Short and Sweet]

If anyone is a creditor of Hempels Aviation Pty Ltd (In Liquidation) ACN 010 919 927 there will be a meeting of creditors at the offices of Cranstoun & Hussein, Level 2, 102 Adelaide Street, Brisbane on the 17th day of October 2008 at 10:30am.

Please read today's Public Notices of the Courier Mail for further details.

As someone who used to work in a Liquidator's Office (prior to becoming a pilot) please make sure that you try to attend the meeting as there is lots of useful information given and you can ask the Liquidator directly any question that you may have.

Please also contact the Liquidator's Office if you haven't already been sent any information about this meeting, as the books and records of some companies are not always up to date you may not be recorded as a creditor.

You will need proof of your debt and the Liquidator's Office will send you out forms (specifically a Proof of Debt Form) that you will need to complete before the meeting. These will need to be returned to the Liquidator a few days before the meeting so he can adjudicate on them. The proof of debt also allows you to vote at meetings. If you cannot attend the meetings please put in a proxy so your voice can be heard.

I do not profess to be well versed in all matters of Liquidations so any questions you have please give to the Liquidator.

I hope that this matter can be wound up quickly.

Cheers
Short and Sweet

[Jabawocky]

Yep

And if the experience of attending 3 or so of these........ Don't bother!

Usually they will tell you that after secured creditors and the Liquidators are paid (excessive amounts) etc etc...... there is bugger all for you!

This case could be different....but not likely.

J:rolleyes:

[601]

i mean really??? is anyone who actually knew barry surprised???

Nope !!!!!!

[Integro]

After looking at the figures and chatting with the Liquidator there's no wonder they closed up.

The AOC (I think that's what it's called) is pretty well worthless as it's attached to the company that will more likely than not have a law suit on it's hands (this is what the Liquidator has told me).

So that left cash in the bank and a few people owing them money, well that leaves them in the red a couple hundred K.

So if they owe you money just bend over as you're not going to see much of it.

The thing that really gets me is I'd been asking the school for my money back for Months before BH had his accident. Promise after promise that the money was/would be paid back and yet it never came!

A bunch of crooks! Oh well at least the old staff will get their holiday pay (there's enough there to cover that).

They were also smart enough to have the aircraft owned by a different company so the beneficiaries should still come out of it with a bit of cash...

[Jabawocky]

What did I say a few posts above..........:hmm: just another wind up of a company with many sad stories of folk out of pocket.

Dont waste any more time over it. Start again with a very well learnt lesson. They say education comes at a price, you just paid for a different education than the one you expected to receive.

J:sad:

Footnote: Just as Jaba sits here with an invoice for software licences and "implimentation" whcih must be paid in advance. :uhoh:

[Metro man]

People who purchased an adventure or joy flight with Brisbane-based company Hempels Aviation are being asked to contact the Civil Aviation Safety Authority.

More information is available on the CASA website: Media release - Appeal for public help in Hempel investigation (http://www.casa.gov.au/media/2008/08-10-17b.htm)

[Jabawocky]

Looks like they are casting the net to see what they catch..........

Or maybe the company records are not adding up...... or missing?:ooh:

Geeez were these Questions ones that should have been asked a long time ago when CASA were interested in goings on.

Another case of horse bolted down the road and run over by a truck before somebody realised the gate was unlatched! :ugh: